How to alienate your PVP community

[Skylandyr]

that means you attacked blue and had criminal actions on by intention and needed to manage your MC's and reploss right?!
And you didnt, but played offensive/ agressively and you already knew the consequences and still you stubbornly attacked more blue players.
I see many want the game to be a PvP only Wargame, but it isnt and it's systems for that arent ready or even implemented.
Others have similar issues, magic schools, taming, several professions... all not finished or fully implemented.
I dont think it needs further explanations why criminal actions need to have consequences.
And the consequences are way to low.
But ok i cp it from another post i made recently.
There is room for improvements, the problem active PvPers seem to have is that they dont use the wardec system and just dont want to accept the restrictions for PKing.
But the restrictions are more than neccessary to prevent MO2 from the fate of MO1 with only a few hundred players left and to prevent the game becomes a PVP game for 500 players only. This way the game wont survive.
We all should agree that RPKing need to have consequences and that KOS and PvP for PvP's sake isn't good for a MMORPG Community to build up and raise numbers. All the games that didnt rule and limit it were orphaned very quick. All others afaik have save zones and also punish RPKing and try to prevent too much griefing.

Some say Players should rule it all, but that never worked in any videogame i know of. You know one? name it please!
Name me one open PvP MMORPG without any restrictions, rulesets and consequences for PKing?
Why do we need it, because it gets overstressed so easily and only a few make it only enjoyable for a few players.
This way the games are orphaned and shut down.
We all need to find and do compromises.
If you arent ready to make them in MO2 for the good of the game and the whole community that also consists of traders, crafters, PvE'rs, Roleplayers and alike so be it, but again: why do we have these systems, why does EvE has highsec, why Albion safezones, why do we need guards and criminal actions etc. ?
It's PvPers who allways overstress it and need to be limited or else they alienate everyone else and game becomes not successfull, not fundable anymore.

well i didnt go into detail as to what happenend but i will tell you i was at sausage lake with 2 of my friends one of my friends killed a guy from the monkeys guild who is also a rpk guild he was grey we then ran into 5 brigands who attacked the 3 of us one of us was grey not me i had to help my friend since we were fighting 3v5 i cant just wait for each person to individually flag up i started this fight with 3 standing i was at saucage lake not outside the city by any means boom we won the fight 5 rep loss now im -2 then i got back to positive ran a few parcels got into a 4v4 fight with ID a geared pvp engagement took another 4 mcs and there u go seems every fight goes like this so it wasnt oh you didnt manage your rep loss and you chose to attack blue players no i was pvping way outside the city defending my guildmates

 

[Skylandyr]

that means you attacked blue and had criminal actions on by intention and needed to manage your MC's and reploss right?!
And you didnt, but played offensive/ agressively and you already knew the consequences and still you stubbornly attacked more blue players.
I see many want the game to be a PvP only Wargame, but it isnt and it's systems for that arent ready or even implemented.
Others have similar issues, magic schools, taming, several professions... all not finished or fully implemented.
I dont think it needs further explanations why criminal actions need to have consequences.
And the consequences are way to low.
But ok i cp it from another post i made recently.
There is room for improvements, the problem active PvPers seem to have is that they dont use the wardec system and just dont want to accept the restrictions for PKing.
But the restrictions are more than neccessary to prevent MO2 from the fate of MO1 with only a few hundred players left and to prevent the game becomes a PVP game for 500 players only. This way the game wont survive.
We all should agree that RPKing need to have consequences and that KOS and PvP for PvP's sake isn't good for a MMORPG Community to build up and raise numbers. All the games that didnt rule and limit it were orphaned very quick. All others afaik have save zones and also punish RPKing and try to prevent too much griefing.

Some say Players should rule it all, but that never worked in any videogame i know of. You know one? name it please!
Name me one open PvP MMORPG without any restrictions, rulesets and consequences for PKing?
Why do we need it, because it gets overstressed so easily and only a few make it only enjoyable for a few players.
This way the games are orphaned and shut down.
We all need to find and do compromises.
If you arent ready to make them in MO2 for the good of the game and the whole community that also consists of traders, crafters, PvE'rs, Roleplayers and alike so be it, but again: why do we have these systems, why does EvE has highsec, why Albion safezones, why do we need guards and criminal actions etc. ?
It's PvPers who allways overstress it and need to be limited or else they alienate everyone else and game becomes not successfull, not fundable anymore.

Albion and eve have way lighter restrictions on pking and are also way more successful games than mo2 will ever be if it keeps going down the road they are on in albion and eve you are rewarded and mortal your treated like the scum of the earth just for wanting to do the 1 fun thing in the game and its sad the games economy is dependant on pkers but if you alienate them and punish them more and they quit the game will die it will be an ecosystem without predators and that isnt an ecosystem that thrives or works it leads to extinction i meet crafters all the time who tell me man without you guys wed never sell our stuff thanks for what you do listen if you want to play pve only game play ESO or WOW much better for pve mortal is a pvp game and we need it yes we need less griefing your right but legitimate pvp needs to be encouraged not punished is all im saying

 

[Jatix]

well, i have thought about improvements and all i can come up with is more pusnishment for criminal actions

You should try runescape, you can just play in the 99% of game where theres no pvp. This is what I dont get about MO2. Its an open pvp game, but tons of players want the pvp to be punished so hard that its not really open pvp. They want the 'thrill' of being in a world that they can get killed at any time, but wont because nobody wants to pvp.

 

[Skylandyr]

You should try runescape, you can just play in the 99% of game where theres no pvp. This is what I dont get about MO2. Its an open pvp game, but tons of players want the pvp to be punished so hard that its not really open pvp. They want the 'thrill' of being in a world that they can get killed at any time, but wont because nobody wants to pvp.

i think runescapes more up this guys alley ive given him all the reasons pvp is over punished explained why everything he has suggested doesnt work and he still is here saying i dont get it

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

well, i have thought about improvements and all i can come up with is more pusnishment for criminal actions
What i think needs improvement is an alliance system to not have to abuse the wardec system for this.
Also wardec may be forceable, unsure about that.
I see some want to be opportunistic and PK and KOS etc. but as i said, it alienates more players than it attracts, so not helpfull to make the game successfull.
You cannot change people! If you want to make the game successfull it needs such mechanics, because everything else is too niche and wont be fundable long time.
Simple as that. I dont want safezones, i want PK's are around, but i dont want them to run around in high numbers and i dont want them to have an easy live becuase their playstyle - and i also was red in other games - is opposing all other playstyles and while everyone can take a loss or two a day nobody want to get killed and robbed every time they leave town.
PK's and also many other players already run multiple Accounts, maybe even multibox, circumvent given restrictions, have blue alts, a spiritist etc. and completely negate any pusnishment more or less easily.
If people arent ready for compromises and exploit it too much, there wont be enough players fund the game in the future.

I don't see that by making pvp more time consuming and restrictive is going to make the game any better, theres this general antagonistic view of gamestyles polarizing opinions against and in favor of "pvprs", anyone who plays this game is a pvper, can't skip PVP and play mortal.

Then theres the ones that never had to deal with red penalties saying no punishment is enough, damn it i've seen enough noobs saying that.
Sometimes i think more than balance talks we are discussing some people's personal vendettas against joy, people that can't and won't sign in for the fictional contract and what the game delivers, demanding in the name of "fairness" criminal actions to be more penalized.

I do think they are partially right, they notice something is off and the best they can come up with is "adding more restrictive world", which is the mainstream logic of gaming today, strong ruleset framing and little space for players to actually do their own thing.

Then theres the social component of mortal, which is a big deal. Without people populating the world the game means absolutly nothing, the strongest asset the game has is players habitating the world.

Being the social element the strongest asset the game has i consider the development should go towards an "additive - positive" logic, that instead of making time wastage mechanics and penalties the game should encourage people to play and not just to make their life absolutly tedious and miserable because "punishment".

Its really idiotic to have such a reductive vision of the game, thinking more criminal punishment will encourage more people to play. The balance should also include buffs for the ones affected, the blue, small or solo guilds and not making the criminal's life more time consuming.

The game also has unclear rules noobs find really hard to understand, because theres absolutly nothing written or explained in game how does law work and i've seen since beta enough noobs going negative standing outside town by hitting any random ass blue they saw on big fights, i've seen countless noobs cry in helpchat that they went negative standing without even knowing what standing is.

These players can't rely in helpchat to understand the game, thats the most cruel piece of shit move SV can do to a new player, helpchat is a cesspool of imbecile kids. Imagine installing the game and having to ask something 10 times in helpchat while they talk about religion or uncle sam redneck propaganda.

I mean, theres so many flaws in this game and i could do a mega thread on how to help noobs understand it and helping noobs should definitely be the development focus, NOT ADDING PVP PENALTIES. YOU WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND AND ENJOY THE GAME.

So yeah, theres a bunch of missguided people asking for more punishment for the psychos ganking" poor noobs. Unable to see anything else.

BTW you doing things to bypass some (and to a certain degree) of the penalties are investing, time, money and effort to bypass them. Which a pay to win model is, and this game under no circumstance (SPECIALLY IF THEY CHARGE YOU SUB) should be pay to win.
Anyone should have 1 account and 1 client for it to be fair, if we are discussing fairness at all. So you telling me that for bypassing the criminal penalties i have to multi account and multiclient, i think thats a high price to pay and some people might not be willing or can't.

 

[Stundorn]

BTW you doing things to bypass some (and to a certain degree) of the penalties are investing, time, money and effort to bypass them. Which a pay to win model is, and this game under no circumstance (SPECIALLY IF THEY CHARGE YOU SUB) should be pay to win.
Anyone should have 1 account and 1 client for it to be fair, if we are discussing fairness at all. So you telling me that for bypassing the criminal penalties i have to multi account and multiclient, i think thats a high price to pay and some people might not be willing or can't.

i play on one account not even a meta build, but a build i have fun with.
almost everyone around me has at minimum 2 Acc's, most have 3-4 Acc's and circrumvent given restrictions, not respecting the game design about limitations, interdependecies. Economy was and is already somewhat broken by this and PK's running blue alts and having Rezz alts etc. do alike not accept and respect the "personal reputation" of the Character.
All i see is people are exploitung and overstressing and disrespecting the Games Design and SV's or Henriks Vision, digging their own grave and make the game fail in a long run.

Best experience PvP wise is the Jungle Camp, the way it is there 90% is the way to alienate tons of possible players and subscribers.
Actually i cannot even try to fight back or organize some people countering, because they make my client crash.
Not sure it is the next cheat, but recently people make me crash and when i relog i'm dead.
To many PvPers exploit, use macro's and i would guess it's also a lot of cheaters, that use lagswitches or make your client crash etc.
It becomes a little bit obvious meanwhile and if SV doesnt react the game will exactly like MO1 niche of niche and i doubt this way it will be fundable in the long run.

 

[Skylandyr]

i play on one account not even a meta build, but a build i have fun with.
almost everyone around me has at minimum 2 Acc's, most have 3-4 Acc's and circrumvent given restrictions, not respecting the game design about limitations, interdependecies. Economy was and is already somewhat broken by this and PK's running blue alts and having Rezz alts etc. do alike not accept and respect the "personal reputation" of the Character.
All i see is people are exploitung and overstressing and disrespecting the Games Design and SV's or Henriks Vision, digging their own grave and make the game fail in a long run.

Best experience PvP wise is the Jungle Camp, the way it is there 90% is the way to alienate tons of possible players and subscribers.
Actually i cannot even try to fight back or organize some people countering, because they make my client crash.
Not sure it is the next cheat, but recently people make me crash and when i relog i'm dead.
To many PvPers exploit, use macro's and i would guess it's also a lot of cheaters, that use lagswitches or make your client crash etc.
It becomes a little bit obvious meanwhile and if SV doesnt react the game will exactly like MO1 niche of niche and i doubt this way it will be fundable in the long run.

how is jungle camp the best place to pvp its a blue priest and killing people there gives you khurite reploss

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

i play on one account not even a meta build, but a build i have fun with.
almost everyone around me has at minimum 2 Acc's, most have 3-4 Acc's and circrumvent given restrictions, not respecting the game design about limitations, interdependecies. Economy was and is already somewhat broken by this and PK's running blue alts and having Rezz alts etc. do alike not accept and respect the "personal reputation" of the Character.
All i see is people are exploitung and overstressing and disrespecting the Games Design and SV's or Henriks Vision, digging their own grave and make the game fail in a long run.

Best experience PvP wise is the Jungle Camp, the way it is there 90% is the way to alienate tons of possible players and subscribers.
Actually i cannot even try to fight back or organize some people countering, because they make my client crash.
Not sure it is the next cheat, but recently people make me crash and when i relog i'm dead.
To many PvPers exploit, use macro's and i would guess it's also a lot of cheaters, that use lagswitches or make your client crash etc.
It becomes a little bit obvious meanwhile and if SV doesnt react the game will exactly like MO1 niche of niche and i doubt this way it will be fundable in the long run.

Economy has nothing to do with pk's, you blaming pks for the state of the economy is absolutly ridiculous. People don't overstress and disrespect the game design, people plays the game. Players running multiple characters is game design not exploiting the system.

Idk man, people who blames the players or the community for the state of the game... We could analyze and think in terms of player behavior regarding something but you can't be blaming players for shit game design, if anything thank the players to test content for free instead of blaming them.

People may or may not cheat, until proven we can asume they don't, but some of them do. Wouldn't you think its a little bit retarded to blame those players for the vulnerable state of the game? If they exploit and they hack its not cool yes, but whos fault is it in the first place. All these hacks have been reported a long time ago dude, a long long time ago, multiple times by multiple players.

You crashing may or may not be an exploit being triggered by a player, perhaps its your setup + shitty game design going nuts. Gotta say i hate the imbecile kids that unable to understand the game they claim someone is hacking. Like that video of those 2 dudes fighting in tindrem sewers and one of them is insulting a parrylord because he can't get through parrys, and you can see in the video the roller coaster of emotions the mad noob is having you can even hear him say "i fought kuthara you cheating scum".

Players can't afford to lose, or not to be in control thats why they like to falsely hackusate players. Like for example i had a bunch of EU butthurt kids complaining i lagswitch, but i don't and i generally have 230 ms which is the best i can have considering SV's garbage server placement, i can't have enough parry reaction time as an EU yet they complain about my ping, fuck those kids with low ping that suck dick.

People does lagswitch and hack and exploit and do all that shit above, they can only do it because the game design allows them. Then i don't understand that if this is being such a big problem why it ain't addressed, lets be honests here these problems are not new and they have been reported a long time ago.

Saying most people have 2 accounts at least doesn't prove anything but the need to access multiple characters to enjoy the game properly, people crave that and some the ones willing to or the ones that can will pay for multiple accounts. Which will continue to be unfair p2w model.

 

[Skylandyr]

i play on one account not even a meta build, but a build i have fun with.
almost everyone around me has at minimum 2 Acc's, most have 3-4 Acc's and circrumvent given restrictions, not respecting the game design about limitations, interdependecies. Economy was and is already somewhat broken by this and PK's running blue alts and having Rezz alts etc. do alike not accept and respect the "personal reputation" of the Character.
All i see is people are exploitung and overstressing and disrespecting the Games Design and SV's or Henriks Vision, digging their own grave and make the game fail in a long run.

Best experience PvP wise is the Jungle Camp, the way it is there 90% is the way to alienate tons of possible players and subscribers.
Actually i cannot even try to fight back or organize some people countering, because they make my client crash.
Not sure it is the next cheat, but recently people make me crash and when i relog i'm dead.
To many PvPers exploit, use macro's and i would guess it's also a lot of cheaters, that use lagswitches or make your client crash etc.
It becomes a little bit obvious meanwhile and if SV doesnt react the game will exactly like MO1 niche of niche and i doubt this way it will be fundable in the long run.

also the games already dead man look at the numbers its lost 95 % of its players since launch and was hovering at less than 1k before the recent patch and is back on the decline again the pvp punishment server problems hackers exploiting queue times lack of content buggy pve game breaking Bugs and blaitent lies from henrik that have made people quit i can name atleast 15 people who quit due to the pvp restrictions all of this put together killed the game its crazy that the game has gotten worse since beta not better i myself have uninstalled it and will return when they stop making us pvpers do ridiculous time sinks just to play the damn game

 

[Banespike]

err.. looking at the prices and exp gain for spells, it will cost a bit more than a handfull of gold to lvl spiritism. More like a few hundred gold. sry.

not at all, read spiritism book to 70, with 70psy You got 77, use mental awareness to grind to 80-85, start resing yourself till 100 (needs jadite, cuprum, calmine each spell) don’t even need 200g at all if you buy everything. Maybe 100-150

 

[Banespike]

also the games already dead man look at the numbers its lost 95 % of its players since launch and was hovering at less than 1k before the recent patch and is back on the decline again the pvp punishment server problems hackers exploiting queue times lack of content buggy pve game breaking Bugs and blaitent lies from henrik that have made people quit i can name atleast 15 people who quit due to the pvp restrictions all of this put together killed the game its crazy that the game has gotten worse since beta not better i myself have uninstalled it and will return when they stop making us pvpers do ridiculous time sinks just to play the damn game

What time sink? Have a stronghold with friends, have priest / stable. + a few extra houses for storage, fight, die , res at your priest, regear / repeat.. it’s not that hard to get a few houses so you don’t need rep at all.

 

[ElPerro]

What time sink? Have a stronghold with friends, have priest / stable. + a few extra houses for storage, fight, die , res at your priest, regear / repeat.. it’s not that hard to get a few houses so you don’t need rep at all.

So join a zerg guild that can afford priest or buy another acc with another pc so u can use a spiritist and res yourself. Ez

 

[Erwinicus]

What time sink? Have a stronghold with friends, have priest / stable. + a few extra houses for storage, fight, die , res at your priest, regear / repeat.. it’s not that hard to get a few houses so you don’t need rep at all.

If you don't have a stronghold or know someone who have a spiritist it sucks and you have to spend 15-30 minutes just doing nothing but running naked back to a bank every time you die, and obviously since you're alone or a small group your chances of dying are already increased.

Then as soon as you are in a bigger clan and have those things there's no punishment at all anymore.

What's the logic behind that? Alienate anyone who doesn't wanna grind up a spiritist alt? Make people join zergs to get access to more convenient respawn options?

I don't understand the whole idea. If the point with far away red priests was to make people PvP (rpk) less, then that doesn't work since people will still PvP just with their own spiritist. So what's even the point of not having closer red priests?

I'd understand if it took like 10 minutes to get back from a red priest, but 30 minutes is like a whole match in other games. Not to mention you can get unlucky and someone decides to kill you as you do the naked run back, so potentially you could spend an hour plus just trying to regear.

 

[Banespike]

If you don't have a stronghold or know someone who have a spiritist it sucks and you have to spend 15-30 minutes just doing nothing but running naked back to a bank every time you die, and obviously since you're alone or a small group your chances of dying are already increased.

Then as soon as you are in a bigger clan and have those things there's no punishment at all anymore.

What's the logic behind that? Alienate anyone who doesn't wanna grind up a spiritist alt? Make people join zergs to get access to more convenient respawn options?

I don't understand the whole idea. If the point with far away red priests was to make people PvP (rpk) less, then that doesn't work since people will still PvP just with their own spiritist. So what's even the point of not having closer red priests?

I'd understand if it took like 10 minutes to get back from a red priest, but 30 minutes is like a whole match in other games. Not to mention you can get unlucky and someone decides to kill you as you do the naked run back, so potentially you could spend an hour plus just trying to regear.

you can even build a stronghold with 1-2 friends and also alone if you want to. No need to join a Zerg guild or whatever.

just invest a bit if you wanna live lawless, it’s really not that hard.

 

[Robmo]

you can even build a stronghold with 1-2 friends and also alone if you want to. No need to join a Zerg guild or whatever.

just invest a bit if you wanna live lawless, it’s really not that hard.

My guild leader basically built our tier 3 by himself. I just gave some money here and there. It is possible, took him a bit

 

[Gladiator]

My guild leader basically built our tier 3 by himself. I just gave some money here and there. It is possible, took him a bit

Telling your playerbase to just spend 2-3 weeks gathering money and a full week building a fortress before actually PLAYING the game is a sure way of your playerbase leaving set game

 

[Banespike]

Telling your playerbase to just spend 2-3 weeks gathering money and a full week building a fortress before actually PLAYING the game is a sure way of your playerbase leaving set game

it’s a part of the game, it’s not like you don’t play 80% of the time I do pve I find pvp.
You don’t have to build one to play but it will solve your walk of shame.
the system is there, just use it

 

[Gladiator]

it’s a part of the game, it’s not like you don’t play 80% of the time I do pve I find pvp.
You don’t have to build one to play but it will solve your walk of shame.
the system is there, just use it

Even PVE is a pain in the ass with this system.
The majority of my playtime was as a blue player, and there was ALWAYS issues like "If i dont go gray at the start of a fight, my friends will die before i can do anything" because 3 blue guys that you cannot touch will go around your mage and he will die in 5 seconds.

And if you tell me to "just go gray then" thats also not valid, because all it takes is 1 single fight to become a murderer. All you have to do is a 5 vs 5 fight thats all. You lightly tap them on the shoulder, they die, you're a murderer. Congratulations, enjoy the walk of shame untill the end of time. Or, build a keep and buy a priest.

You really dont see how this system is flawed and how it drives people away?

It works, yes, it is possible to pve, and to pvp, and to respawn, and everything else is possible. But its a pain in the fucking ass. People dont like pain in the fucking ass, people play games to have fun. When the game is no longer fun because it requires you to walk 30-50 minutes every time you die, people stop playing the game.

 

[Banespike]

Even PVE is a pain in the ass with this system.
The majority of my playtime was as a blue player, and there was ALWAYS issues like "If i dont go gray at the start of a fight, my friends will die before i can do anything" because 3 blue guys that you cannot touch will go around your mage and he will die in 5 seconds.

And if you tell me to "just go gray then" thats also not valid, because all it takes is 1 single fight to become a murderer. All you have to do is a 5 vs 5 fight thats all. You lightly tap them on the shoulder, they die, you're a murderer. Congratulations, enjoy the walk of shame untill the end of time. Or, build a keep and buy a priest.

You really dont see how this system is flawed and how it drives people away?

It works, yes, it is possible to pve, and to pvp, and to respawn, and everything else is possible. But its a pain in the fucking ass. People dont like pain in the fucking ass, people play games to have fun. When the game is no longer fun because it requires you to walk 30-50 minutes every time you die, people stop playing the game.

i agree that the ways we have to walk are to long
But on the other side there is always a way to get a res if you get some friends or if you are on the right Discord. People are selling resses for a few gold

for the 5v5 aspect: most time people try to engage you they are red anyway. So no Mc at all.

 

[Xenom]

Telling your playerbase to just spend 2-3 weeks gathering money and a full week building a fortress before actually PLAYING the game is a sure way of your playerbase leaving set game

So this is no lobby game where you log in an just go pvp... this at least should be clear enough by now. It might be your way but very unlikely the way for most playing. PvP is a niche, being a Pk even more so in the pvp niche.

How come all it boils down is pks explaining like 10000 times in this thread 'this is an full loot pvp game' as it is also in the description so all they want to kill without consequences, the need to pve, gear up, build something or have anything to distract from running around murdering, ignoring that not everyone is playing this for being a pk but empire building, real pvp that matters over stuff that matters or for no pvp at all and just enjoy living in a harsh environment where it is enough for them to know not everyone can be a pk because it's hard.

Yet again understand it's frustrating with most of the pvp system not done but making a pk's life easy because of this and turning MO2 into anarchy mode will basically end the game for us all.