How to alienate your PVP community

[Midkemma]

what i meant was role play pvp established in the earlier posts as the punishments and rep made them quit not roleplaying but the game is described as a full loot pvp mmo is what it says

I found it funny dude, equally funny as people moaning about PvP in MO.
I don't like the rep system and I'm against the bounty system from what I've heard so far. I also feel that SV should give more notice of changes along with QoL for players effected by their slow progress... Respect towards the players and it'll be easier for us players to give them leeway.

IMO it would be cool to see who killed the player on the corpses head.
So my head would be "Midkemma's head, killed by Skylandyr".

Allow players to put heads on spikes at their base and allow others to view them. (You could farm me and have a dozen Midkemma heads around your place and other players could see the slaughter)

As the head cites who killed the player then this can allow for players themselves to RP bounty hunters. Build up in-game reputation as ppl to be trusted. I could then offer them 1000 gold to kill you 10 times in the next 5 days...

That was a bit of a ramble. Sorry for going slightly off topic. ^.^

 

[Jatix]

Ya Hodo brought up IRL points because I brought up IRL first. In his examples it took days for word to travel. In MO you might get zerged before you even finish killing the guy if you are close to town / a base. But, I still dub his points valid, that word traveled faster back then than I would have thought. And in cases like killing a guy and then getting targeted after, his points seem pretty valid. Especially seeing that nothing in game takes as long as it does IRL, so response time shouldn't be any different.

There are countless mechanisms in the game that are based on the RL

Just a fun little fact I thought of when I read this. I've been getting a lot into lifting IRL, and I found a calculator that tries to calculate your maximum amount of muscle mass you can have, based on a few measurements. And what I didnt realize but makes sense, is that as your body fat goes up, your maximum muscle goes up. Which is similar to being stout in MO. You need more fat to have more muscle. Also, being taller ups how much muscle one can have. Which in MO is translated as damage bonus. Which I will give SV credit for, is a pretty decently realistic system.

 

[Jatix]

Why not just get someone to resurrect you?

I keep seeing people say this. It just doesnt work well as an ideal solution. The game heavily limits you to have 1 character, so you cant have a res alt without paying more (which you shouldnt need to do). So lets say you get a guild mate who actually wanted to play a spiritist (which is an extremely underwhelming magic school). What are they supposed to do? Sit at town all day in case someone dies? Becsue if they are offline or not at town they cant help you. Same thing if you live at a house in the woods somewhere.

And thing 2, getting rez'd by a spiritist is just a workaround to the bad standing system. If it was made well we wouldn't need a workaround to bypass it. If you have good standing and can go in town and be protected by the guards there, the priest should resurect you anyway. You shouldn't need a spiritist.

 

[Gladiator]

And thing 2, getting rez'd by a spiritist is just a workaround to the bad standing system.

I agree with this.
When somebody tells me to just hire a spiritist i think of it as a bandaid on a limb that has been chopped off.

The problem with this sort of thinking is that, while, yes, there is a way, it is a very laborious way, it takes time, effort, even when you do actually get it working, you either need to use another account, use GEforce now, another computer, call a friend, a guildmate, wait for your friend to be online, etc.... Point is, its not easy. Do you know what most people think of "not easy" ? They think twice before paying your subscription, thats what they think.

 

[Godly]

A statement has never been more wrong. Of course, real life is the standard basis for everything that happens here in the game.
We are willing to accept certain additions (e.g. magic) because they enrich the gaming experience.

There are countless mechanisms in the game that are based on the RL, almost all of your special skills/specializations for each weapon type have been introduced into the game from the RL. And that's exactly how you judge whether the game feels good (realistic). So the comparison with the RL is absolutely fine.

I'm curious how you would react if SV announces tomorrow that the Imperial scientists in Tindrem have invented automatic rifles and grenade launchers. Then you and a lot of other people would probably say SV is going completely nuts now, because somehow it doesn't fit into your imagination.

I could then adopt your argument and say, "Hey, this is a fantasy game and not a real simulation, it's great fun destroying enemy fortresses with grenade launchers".

However, should SV announce that Imperial scientists have invented trebuchets, which can be used in sieges to destroy fortresses, then I'm sure the com's outcry would be far less than at the introduction of grenade launchers.

And why? Because many people have an idea of a real medieval world in their heads and then check many things in the game to see if they make sense.

I understand what you're trying to say but you're just as wrong as you think I am. You even defeated your own argument with the example you chose: "SV could implement grenade launchers that would have the exact in-game mechanics as trebuchets would have but people would reject it because the artwork and animation isn't medieval." Correct, the developers are just being consistent by sticking to a theme, not about making sure things mirror reality.

The list of things in-game that actually resemble real life is far shorter than things that are completely unrealistic. Let's take for example the most basic and core function of the game: player Health Points. Even KILLING another player (or a pet) in this game has no basis in reality. You could punch someone in their foot until their HP reaches 0 and then they will die, but if you shoot them in the chest where their heart is located will they die from one arrow? Unlikely. Better check the HP number. How about taking a dagger and thrusting it into the neck of a player or NPC? Nope, 40 damage.

How about simply gathering resources? Trees don't even fall down when you cut them. Just wait an hour and they magically replenish. Same with stones. How about NPCs with an infinite amount of gold to buy the infinitely replenishing resources that you gathered, there is no type of economy more artificial. The in-game currency of "gold" is a travesty, being more closely related to modern day fiat than anything even close to resembling historically accurate tangible finite units of exchange. It is accurate to say that NONE of the core mechanics of this game resemble real life.

You can tell me that this game resembles real life because they have some skill names based in Latin and that they're dedicated to a medieval theme but you're only deluding yourself my man.

 

[Godly]

Because you probably didnt read what sparked me using real life as a debate point. The person I was responding to stated

"Sadly the main reason open pvp games just dont work how they should, is cuz coms exist. IRL if you find some guy out in the woods, medieval ish times, nobody is going to get called. Which makes it so games like MO can only be for the people who want to zerg, and the pve people who dont care. "-Jatix

If you notice he said IRL if you find some guy out in the woods.... IRL means In Real Life. This is why I brought up real life examples of people who did exactly that.

You started citing real-life examples before that specific exchange in order to justify why you think large groups of players should have total domination over anything they desire. For example, you wrote on page 2 "I mean terrorist in the middle east didnt have fighters or any form of air defense, do you think they cried zerg when B-52 bombers were flying over them 24/7 for a solid month turning big mountains into rolling foot hills?".

By your logic we should have had complete control over Afghanistan after 20 years of US Military occupation, right? Especially considering the US Military budget is larger than the military budgets of China, Russia, India, and just about all European countries combined. What is reality though? The Taliban is now in control of Afghanistan and a whole generation of kids over there grew up with bombs that have American flags on them landing in their neighborhoods and US combat veterans came home with all-time-high suicide rates. It's like a decentralized asymmetrical insurgency is impossible to defend against or something, regardless of budgets. But I guess a couple convenient regime changes and temporary security for our "greatest ally" was all worth it tho, emirite?

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

You can when people want to use IRL as a basis for their debate.

You could but not much to debate comparing irl historic elements to a fantasy game. This needs to be discussed in the terms of game balance and not justify shitty game design appealing its somewhat realistic or close to certain rl historic scenarios.

 

[Stundorn]

i want to pvp now but i cant due to the rep system

Just why?
Rezz at JC and PvP is in your face.
Wardec and PvP without consequences.
What is the Problem?
Criminal actions?
Why the geck people believe criminal actions shouldnt have harsch consequences and designed in a way most players are discouraged to become criminal?
You want Anarchy?

the game is described as a full loot pvp mmo is what it says

->>>

Mortal Online 2 is a first – person fantasy MMORPG...

players who gather resources, craft goods, set up trade routes, build houses, fortifications, and villages – wage wars, or keep the peace....
the world evolves from player actions and emergent systems alike....

You can steal from, fight and kill other players – or protect the people around you from marauders and mischief, for bounties or renown.
You can set up a business and profit from gathering, taming, breeding, refining, crafting, construction, trade, protection, and more...

PvP isnt limited or by any means discouraged and pvpers also arent alienated.
You know what is limited and what playstyle is alienated to some degree, its ig criminal actions PvP.
I dont think it needs further explanations why criminal actions need to have consequences.
And the consequences are way to low.

PvP all day without any consequences with criminal actions off, If you need to find grey players i can help finding them easily.
Just go to lawless areas/ Towns.
Or declare war and PvP against enemy guilds without consequences.

Want to be criminal, deal with consequences, and again the consequences are way to forgiving.

 

[Turbizzler]

The problem is, the game is barebones and there's no real incentive to PvP, let alone anything, aside from trolling outside of towns. 90% of the population sit in town all day RPing or AFK. There's just not enough to do. Sure you might get some PvP in dungeons, but the issue is a lot of the meaningful PvE(Bosses) are a numbers check(Unless you're a cheeser abusing things), which makes it viable for mainly for larger groups, and makes smaller groups not bother to farm the bosses as much or bother looking for PvP, as again, it makes it viable for larger groups.

Recent changes like
- Door 5 second timer for both opening and closing(10s total)
- Not able to parry guards

Are again, giving the initiative and incentive for larger groups to PvP. Since the main focus for PvP right now is around towns, as the game has nothing else to offer currently, as explained above.

The wardec system is a joke. So that's not an option. The organic world PvP is very limited due to the aforementioned. The game just needs more things to incentivize PvP at all scales, not just influence mindless zergling, because it looks cool in videos(SV has admitted they're intentionally having a larger group focus, for this exact reason). There needs to be more 1vX mechanics when it comes to PvP, needs to be more reason to PvP over the map, needs to be less catering to the zerg bots who mass spam tickets over minor things like house doors.

 

[Skylandyr]

Just why?
Rezz at JC and PvP is in your face.
Wardec and PvP without consequences.
What is the Problem?
Criminal actions?
Why the geck people believe criminal actions shouldnt have harsch consequences and designed in a way most players are discouraged to become criminal?
You want Anarchy?



->>>


PvP isnt limited or by any means discouraged and pvpers also arent alienated.
You know what is limited and what playstyle is alienated to some degree, its ig criminal actions PvP.
I dont think it needs further explanations why criminal actions need to have consequences.
And the consequences are way to low.

PvP all day without any consequences with criminal actions off, If you need to find grey players i can help finding them easily.
Just go to lawless areas/ Towns.
Or declare war and PvP against enemy guilds without consequences.

Want to be criminal, deal with consequences, and again the consequences are way to forgiving.

do you even play red you dont even know what your talking about jungle camp is khurite rep loss so no i cant pvp there and its a blue priest so i cant res there the walks back to town beign 20 mins into a 30 min parcel run just to gain 1 reputation is ridiculous tedious and unneeded pvp is way too punished in this game one fight and you lose 5 10 rep and thats 3 hours of parcel running down the drain for 1 pvp fight there are no lawless areas / towns people you kill in kran can just walk to fab and mc rep loss you so no you cant just go to a lawless town i have 3k hours ive done everything youve just suggested and still end up negative rep facing 2 hour parcels and its just not worth it anymore my whole guilds quit now due to this system the wardecs dont help they arnt forced and even when they are guilds have allies who will come with them who i will still lose rep attacking and not only that the new /guard funcion sicks a guard on you that doesnt lose aggro ever and the guards go all the way out in the middle of no where and just sit there so idk how you can tell me the pvp isnt punished enough i just dont understand why we punish people for initiating pvp fights like i understand killing nakeds and noobs should be punished but everyone else should be fair game and im tired of running parcels they need to buff them to 5 rep or the game is unplayable period

 

[Skylandyr]

Just why?
Rezz at JC and PvP is in your face.
Wardec and PvP without consequences.
What is the Problem?
Criminal actions?
Why the geck people believe criminal actions shouldnt have harsch consequences and designed in a way most players are discouraged to become criminal?
You want Anarchy?



->>>


PvP isnt limited or by any means discouraged and pvpers also arent alienated.
You know what is limited and what playstyle is alienated to some degree, its ig criminal actions PvP.
I dont think it needs further explanations why criminal actions need to have consequences.
And the consequences are way to low.

PvP all day without any consequences with criminal actions off, If you need to find grey players i can help finding them easily.
Just go to lawless areas/ Towns.
Or declare war and PvP against enemy guilds without consequences.

Want to be criminal, deal with consequences, and again the consequences are way to forgiving.

and if we all pvp with crim actions off there would be no pvp someone has to initiate why are we punishing that player that initiated and allowed me to get pvp content while i have my crim actions off that doesnt even make sense someone has to bite the bullet for you to be able to do that and thats what ive done to get pvp if i turn off crim actions id never get fights

 

[Skylandyr]

The problem is, the game is barebones and there's no real incentive to PvP, let alone anything, aside from trolling outside of towns. 90% of the population sit in town all day RPing or AFK. There's just not enough to do. Sure you might get some PvP in dungeons, but the issue is a lot of the meaningful PvE(Bosses) are a numbers check(Unless you're a cheeser abusing things), which makes it viable for mainly for larger groups, and makes smaller groups not bother to farm the bosses as much or bother looking for PvP, as again, it makes it viable for larger groups.

Recent changes like
- Door 5 second timer for both opening and closing(10s total)
- Not able to parry guards

Are again, giving the initiative and incentive for larger groups to PvP. Since the main focus for PvP right now is around towns, as the game has nothing else to offer currently, as explained above.

The wardec system is a joke. So that's not an option. The organic world PvP is very limited due to the aforementioned. The game just needs more things to incentivize PvP at all scales, not just influence mindless zergling, because it looks cool in videos(SV has admitted they're intentionally having a larger group focus, for this exact reason). There needs to be more 1vX mechanics when it comes to PvP, needs to be more reason to PvP over the map, needs to be less catering to the zerg bots who mass spam tickets over minor things like house doors.

yeah look what the guy above your post said he clearly doesnt pvp

 

[Stundorn]

yeah look what the guy above your post said he clearly doesnt pvp

I like how you dont get it
Btw do you know why we have this system?

 

[Skylandyr]

I like how you dont get it
Btw do you know why we have this system?

what do i not get ? did you even read what i said

 

[Deleted member 44]

Do you want a long winded version.

Here you go.

What you call zerg I call nation building. Many people who run around ganking are doing so in small gangs, and much like the cartels in real life they know their role. When the cartel messed with a CIA agent, the CIA did was called a disproportionate response. In other words, they brought so much down on that cartel the cartel realized their few thousand members and few million dollars wasnt near enough when facing the financial resources of the US government and a several billion dollar agency.

The same goes for here in this game. If you're in a smaller guild or like to run around solo and you pick a fight with a "nation" or "zerg" as you like to call them, expect them to bring the hammer. I mean terrorist in the middle east didnt have fighters or any form of air defense, do you think they cried zerg when B-52 bombers were flying over them 24/7 for a solid month turning big mountains into rolling foot hills?

You run into Coalition territory and kill a coalition member and they bring 20+ people to kill the 5 of you, it is a message, that message is GET BIGGER or STAY OUT.

Dude this is a video games. Games are supposed to be fun.

 

[Hodo]

You started citing real-life examples before that specific exchange in order to justify why you think large groups of players should have total domination over anything they desire. For example, you wrote on page 2 "I mean terrorist in the middle east didnt have fighters or any form of air defense, do you think they cried zerg when B-52 bombers were flying over them 24/7 for a solid month turning big mountains into rolling foot hills?".

By your logic we should have had complete control over Afghanistan after 20 years of US Military occupation, right? Especially considering the US Military budget is larger than the military budgets of China, Russia, India, and just about all European countries combined. What is reality though? The Taliban is now in control of Afghanistan and a whole generation of kids over there grew up with bombs that have American flags on them landing in their neighborhoods and US combat veterans came home with all-time-high suicide rates. It's like a decentralized asymmetrical insurgency is impossible to defend against or something, regardless of budgets. But I guess a couple convenient regime changes and temporary security for our "greatest ally" was all worth it tho, emirite?

Ignoring your shallow attempt to try and turn this political. You're right and only further illustrate my example. A nation that had VERY limited mass communication, and no real military could easily amass a quick response of often numerical superiority in a combat situation. This was often done by way of word of mouth or messengers when unable to use cell phones. They would use low tech solutions to quickly get information across large distances. Now they are multiplying their numbers in hopes of gaining a larger military base to draw upon in the future so as to not be "zerged" again in the future.

I know this because I am one of those US Combat Veterans "with all-time-high suicide rates" and I was also a contractor who went over there several times after my service. My job was to observe and report on enemy actions, and after 12 years I got REAL good at it too.

 

[Hodo]

Dude this is a video games. Games are supposed to be fun.

For some being part of something larger is fun.
For others winning is fun.
For others just fighting is fun, win, lose or draw.

 

[Stundorn]

the wardecs dont help they arnt forced

that means you attacked blue and had criminal actions on by intention and needed to manage your MC's and reploss right?!
And you didnt, but played offensive/ agressively and you already knew the consequences and still you stubbornly attacked more blue players.
I see many want the game to be a PvP only Wargame, but it isnt and it's systems for that arent ready or even implemented.
Others have similar issues, magic schools, taming, several professions... all not finished or fully implemented.
I dont think it needs further explanations why criminal actions need to have consequences.
And the consequences are way to low.
But ok i cp it from another post i made recently.
There is room for improvements, the problem active PvPers seem to have is that they dont use the wardec system and just dont want to accept the restrictions for PKing.
But the restrictions are more than neccessary to prevent MO2 from the fate of MO1 with only a few hundred players left and to prevent the game becomes a PVP game for 500 players only. This way the game wont survive.
We all should agree that RPKing need to have consequences and that KOS and PvP for PvP's sake isn't good for a MMORPG Community to build up and raise numbers. All the games that didnt rule and limit it were orphaned very quick. All others afaik have save zones and also punish RPKing and try to prevent too much griefing.

Some say Players should rule it all, but that never worked in any videogame i know of. You know one? name it please!
Name me one open PvP MMORPG without any restrictions, rulesets and consequences for PKing?
Why do we need it, because it gets overstressed so easily and only a few make it only enjoyable for a few players.
This way the games are orphaned and shut down.
We all need to find and do compromises.
If you arent ready to make them in MO2 for the good of the game and the whole community that also consists of traders, crafters, PvE'rs, Roleplayers and alike so be it, but again: why do we have these systems, why does EvE has highsec, why Albion safezones, why do we need guards and criminal actions etc. ?
It's PvPers who allways overstress it and need to be limited or else they alienate everyone else and game becomes not successfull, not fundable anymore.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I like how you dont get it
Btw do you know why we have this system?

Because SV can't figure out anything better, cuz challenged af.

 

[Stundorn]

Because SV can't figure out anything better, cuz challenged af.

well, i have thought about improvements and all i can come up with is more pusnishment for criminal actions
What i think needs improvement is an alliance system to not have to abuse the wardec system for this.
Also wardec may be forceable, unsure about that.
I see some want to be opportunistic and PK and KOS etc. but as i said, it alienates more players than it attracts, so not helpfull to make the game successfull.
You cannot change people! If you want to make the game successfull it needs such mechanics, because everything else is too niche and wont be fundable long time.
Simple as that. I dont want safezones, i want PK's are around, but i dont want them to run around in high numbers and i dont want them to have an easy live becuase their playstyle - and i also was red in other games - is opposing all other playstyles and while everyone can take a loss or two a day nobody want to get killed and robbed every time they leave town.
PK's and also many other players already run multiple Accounts, maybe even multibox, circumvent given restrictions, have blue alts, a spiritist etc. and completely negate any pusnishment more or less easily.
If people arent ready for compromises and exploit it too much, there wont be enough players fund the game in the future.