Haven in MO2

[Valoran]

I do wonder how naive some of the assumptions are. Building a miner to extract blood ore is extremely fast. If you you build an exploitable system, people will exploit it. It´s as simple as that and was happening all the fucking time in MO1. I am somewhat disgusted with how light people take these kind of things, but then all your guilds were riddled with cheaters and exploiters.

You are also not taking away anything from anyone with some of the poll options. How Haven works is not set in stone for MO2. That is literally what this thread is about.



Supposedly that should not happen with the new system. Henrik specifically said they are designing it so that it´s more of fluff choice. You could also just allow re-rolls on Haven, pretty easy fix for a non-problem.

Edit:

Did a test while cleaning the apartment. Took me 45 minutes to make blood ore, including making a new account.

You may have extracted a small quantity of blood ore, but you did not reach 100 in all the relevant skills in order to actually make it worth doing, and to get any usable amount of it.

There is just no actual threat of this being a real problem.

95% of players will likely stick to one account, so they won't be able to transport their gathered cuprum and wood to a main character anyway.

Those that choose to buy and subscribe second accounts would be much better off gathering resources on the mainland, because trying to do it on Haven will take so much longer it will be pointless.

Levelling one character to 100 in all gathering skills and gathering resources consistently on the mainland will be so much faster than constantly re-levelling a new character on Haven just to get some basic materials safely.

It's just absurd and no one is actually going to bother.


The world is so massive now that leaving town to chop some wood or mine some rocks isn't likely to result in your death unless you do it on the main road, and even then you'll have combat skills as well so players may want to have encounters while resource gathering.

 

[Speznat]

Well, if there is a restriction obviously the game should tell you about it. Strawman argument.

The old tutorial was lacking on many levels. The new ones should include priest camping, ganking, getting your stuff stolen, thievery etc.
If all the frustrating experiences are not explained in the tutorial they are going to lead to rage quits. Especially with systems like thievery that are not obvious.

I think the sooner new players engage in the real game the better. While a cushion is good, bad habits die hard. That is something they need to be taught, otherwise there will be whining because they played for 50 hours and then realized they acutally didn´t want to play a full loot game after all.

will you ever realise that fixing a sympton will not get rid of the problem, holy fuck.

they should make heaven less profitable instead of more and more and more restrictions. Youre a german you know what i mean. Restriction over Restriction on fixing symptoms instead of problems, may work in a short term window, but it will never work in the long run. and will create more problems.

In why i cant do that, why is that shit restricted, Less restriction is always a better solutions than fixed bullshit.

 

[Eldrath]

You may have extracted a small quantity of blood ore, but you did not reach 100 in all the relevant skills in order to actually make it worth doing, and to get any usable amount of it.

There is just no actual threat of this being a real problem.

95% of players will likely stick to one account, so they won't be able to transport their gathered cuprum and wood to a main character anyway.

Those that choose to buy and subscribe second accounts would be much better off gathering resources on the mainland, because trying to do it on Haven will take so much longer it will be pointless.

Levelling one character to 100 in all gathering skills and gathering resources consistently on the mainland will be so much faster than constantly re-levelling a new character on Haven just to get some basic materials safely.

It's just absurd and no one is actually going to bother.


The world is so massive now that leaving town to chop some wood or mine some rocks isn't likely to result in your death unless you do it on the main road, and even then you'll have combat skills as well so players may want to have encounters while resource gathering.

Yes, I also did that basically afk. Haven´t even gone into books. A fact you choose to ignore is that building a character to a specific menial task is extremely fast and does not require resources if you know what you are doing. Getting those skills up to an efficient level would not take long at all. All while I´m on my second account.

You number is obviously bullshit. Having second accounts in games like Mortal and EvE is commonplace for multiple reasons. People stated without knowing the new system that they will have different accounts just to try out stuff. So that is just naive as well.

A little thought experiment: We both have two accounts. I´m gathering on Haven, you in the mountains. I´ll use one of my accounts to hunt and rob your characters and gather at the same time without any risk. Who is gonna end up with more resources in the long run?

Also you are assuming that I have to constantly re-level a character. Depending on the restrictions in place that is completely unnecessary. So instead of making a constructive comment towards making good restrictions you are talking out of your ass. More on restrictions below.

will you ever realise that fixing a sympton will not get rid of the problem, holy fuck.

they should make heaven less profitable instead of more and more and more restrictions. Youre a german you know what i mean. Restriction over Restriction on fixing symptoms instead of problems, may work in a short term window, but it will never work in the long run. and will create more problems.

In why i cant do that, why is that shit restricted, Less restriction is always a better solutions than fixed bullshit.

Currently I have to argue that there is a disease here at all, since most seem to think that there will be no problem. If you have an incureable disease you do actually treat the symptoms. So .. yeah.

Also your comment is completely illogical. If you make Haven less profitable you are RESTRICTING resource generation. All you archive will be that new players think that this game is more grindy than it should be. I´d rather have them feel that they can accomplish a great deal in a short amount of time, which is true for the main game. It will motivate them to continue playing.

Smart restrictions are actually a good thing. Restricting skills to 100 is better, because otherwise it would be a grindfest to keep up.

This thread is about finding the smart restriction to Haven. As said in the OT. Again, if you think that farming should be done in a safe zone we will have to agree to disagree. Luckily I have SV on my side on this.

Lastly before I say "Auf Wiedersehen!". As a german I much much prefer to work in a german factory where there RESTRICTIONS put in place so that does not fall down on top of me like in f.e. Bangladesch. So yeah, restrictions, laws and social guidelines make life a hell lot easier, safer and more enjoyable. That being said over-regulation is a problem. But then I´m not arguing that every player has to wear the same hat for no reason. All I´m doing is arguing to get a level playing field, disable gold farmers and make sure new players stick to the game.

All you are doing is ignoring the problem.

byebye

 

[Speznat]

Yes, I also did that basically afk. Haven´t even gone into books. A fact you choose to ignore is that building a character to a specific menial task is extremely fast and does not require resources if you know what you are doing. Getting those skills up to an efficient level would not take long at all. All while I´m on my second account.

You number is obviously bullshit. Having second accounts in games like Mortal and EvE is commonplace for multiple reasons. People stated without knowing the new system that they will have different accounts just to try out stuff. So that is just naive as well.

A little thought experiment: We both have two accounts. I´m gathering on Haven, you in the mountains. I´ll use one of my accounts to hunt and rob your characters and gather at the same time without any risk. Who is gonna end up with more resources in the long run?

Also you are assuming that I have to constantly re-level a character. Depending on the restrictions in place that is completely unnecessary. So instead of making a constructive comment towards making good restrictions you are talking out of your ass. More on restrictions below.



Currently I have to argue that there is a disease here at all, since most seem to think that there will be no problem. If you have an incureable disease you do actually treat the symptoms. So .. yeah.

Also your comment is completely illogical. If you make Haven less profitable you are RESTRICTING resource generation. All you archive will be that new players think that this game is more grindy than it should be. I´d rather have them feel that they can accomplish a great deal in a short amount of time, which is true for the main game. It will motivate them to continue playing.

Smart restrictions are actually a good thing. Restricting skills to 100 is better, because otherwise it would be a grindfest to keep up.

This thread is about finding the smart restriction to Haven. As said in the OT. Again, if you think that farming should be done in a safe zone we will have to agree to disagree. Luckily I have SV on my side on this.

Lastly before I say "Auf Wiedersehen!". As a german I much much prefer to work in a german factory where there RESTRICTIONS put in place so that does not fall down on top of me like in f.e. Bangladesch. So yeah, restrictions, laws and social guidelines make life a hell lot easier, safer and more enjoyable. That being said over-regulation is a problem. But then I´m not arguing that every player has to wear the same hat for no reason. All I´m doing is arguing to get a level playing field, disable gold farmers and make sure new players stick to the game.

All you are doing is ignoring the problem.

byebye

and with german restiction i mean stuff like your fence isnt allowed to be higher than 1,8 meters, yea just an example, or that stone garden are forbitdden in many areas, or that you cant cut down a tree on your own property because some idiot thoguht it would be a good idea to mkae a bird cut down breeding law restriction. i dont mean nessary restrictions like work envirement or some stuff that actually make sense you noob. I mean unessary restrction that just bother instead of actually fixing things. If you add restrcition over restriction it doesnt fix any problem the problem is still there, you must fix the problems instead of regulating people to nonsense. same here.

 

[barcode]

i really dont get it. the potential for abuse is there, why not see it for what it is? if MO1 has shown us anything its that if abuse *can* happen, it *will* happen.

regardless of if anyone is actually doing it or not, the accusations will be thrown around when people are seen with what some would perceive as excess mats, why not just prevent this completely?

the most valuable thing players should take from haven should be game knowledge, which they retain regardless of what character they're on. their skills and attributes will not reset so they should have little trouble getting up and running in myrland as they were in haven. materials and wealth are a distant 3rd so far as value goes, and preventing their transfer should pose little to no extra difficulty to players.

the time for mollycoddling is on haven, not myrland. if they want to trek to the mainland, they need to be capable of dealing with loss, and ready to rebuild. If they want inifinite safety, let them stay on haven (which i have no problem letting them stay on haven indefinitely and enjoy the game that way, for some its their ideal setting and more power to them).

as an aside, what about those who do spend a long time in haven? say a merchant sets up there selling armor/weapons to noobs for a year and amasses 50 stacks of gold (or whatever absurd wealth you think is possible in a year with zero losses). should that come with him to myrland? mostly the focus has been on granum and its subproducts but there are other valuable materials in haven like seadew for pots or straight up gold.

-barcode

 

[Teknique]

i really dont get it. the potential for abuse is there, why not see it for what it is? if MO1 has shown us anything its that if abuse *can* happen, it *will* happen.

regardless of if anyone is actually doing it or not, the accusations will be thrown around when people are seen with what some would perceive as excess mats, why not just prevent this completely?

the most valuable thing players should take from haven should be game knowledge, which they retain regardless of what character they're on. their skills and attributes will not reset so they should have little trouble getting up and running in myrland as they were in haven. materials and wealth are a distant 3rd so far as value goes, and preventing their transfer should pose little to no extra difficulty to players.

the time for mollycoddling is on haven, not myrland. if they want to trek to the mainland, they need to be capable of dealing with loss, and ready to rebuild. If they want inifinite safety, let them stay on haven (which i have no problem letting them stay on haven indefinitely and enjoy the game that way, for some its their ideal setting and more power to them).

as an aside, what about those who do spend a long time in haven? say a merchant sets up there selling armor/weapons to noobs for a year and amasses 50 stacks of gold (or whatever absurd wealth you think is possible in a year with zero losses). should that come with him to myrland? mostly the focus has been on granum and its subproducts but there are other valuable materials in haven like seadew for pots or straight up gold.

-barcode

Whats to stop people from staying in the safe zones in albion. Nothing. Its the fact that they want to venture out and get better mats

 

[Livingshade]

Have you seen the current game? Wood is not a rare resource.

If they keep the same resources available as MO1 Haven, you won't be able to make any good metals.

So yes, no valid reason to take away everything a new player has worked for.

if WOOD is not a rare RESOURCE why would a NOOB be so hurt if he has to get it again on main continent? NOOB ISLAND =/= FARMING SIMULATOR

 

[Dracu]

Why not replace haven with a proper tutorial then instead of a newb island.
Just a series of tutorials, the players get teached how to do things and can practise the stuff with maxed stats/skills required for that tutorial and then after the tutorial they can repeat it or go straigth to myrland and start from there but with the knowledge they need.

 

[Eldrath]

Whats to stop people from staying in the safe zones in albion. Nothing. Its the fact that they want to venture out and get better mats

So you think having a market for resources up to steel is unimportant?

 

[Teknique]

So you think having a market for resources up to steel is unimportant?

I more think that a wealthy tindrem isn't a bad thing and at worse an irrelevant thing. If they want to transport those materials outside of tindrem then let them. Keep in mind Tindrem was noob island before noob island. What happens in tindrem stays irrlevant.

 

[barcode]

Whats to stop people from staying in the safe zones in albion. Nothing. Its the fact that they want to venture out and get better mats

i've no problem if people want to stay on haven, or if they want to go on to myrland (as i would expect most would). i have a problem with people farming mats in safe zones and bringing them to myrland.

Why not replace haven with a proper tutorial then instead of a newb island.
Just a series of tutorials, the players get teached how to do things and can practise the stuff with maxed stats/skills required for that tutorial and then after the tutorial they can repeat it or go straigth to myrland and start from there but with the knowledge they need.

i think this is not unreasonable but there are things you can learn by living it out in the small scale like in haven that you wouldnt pick up from a tutorial. that and i think spawning new players into a tutorial rather than a starter area may be a bit heavy handed. Just allow access to the proper tutorial areas (accessible to anyone not just new players) somehow.

at some point sv could even open up haven to f2p accounts, but they need to pay to go to myrland. this way new players and f2p people can check out the game without having an effect on the myrland economy

-barcode

 

[KermyWormy]

I think it's kind of dumb to be a vet and decide what a noob does or does not need to get out of the noob island. The island was designed to give legit new players a place to learn the game in all facets so that when they enter the real world they have the skills, knowledge, and some materials to survive a couple ganks or unforeseen deaths.

The way it's designed it helps the large number of new people who will be trying the game get established. It's not designed around vets who want to exploit the systems. And it shouldn't be scrapped because a few vets see it as being too "nice" or "soft" on new players.

It was a good idea that SV spent the time and resources on designing based on feedback they received from the tons of people who wanted to play MO but were discouraged by the rough starting experience.

It works fine as it is designed, they only need to keep people from rerolling to keep going back there or importing stuff.

This whole thing like "people will do whatever it takes to farm in safety" , of course they will, but as long as it's a one way trip, this can't influence the economy in any grand way, and it helps a lot more people than it hurts, which is the point. And SV can look at other ways to tinker with the current iteration if somehow vets are exploiting it down the line.

 

[barcode]

a noob and his gear are soon parted. if noobs are only going to play so long as they have gearsets in the bank then they're going to stop playing very quickly if they got a full bank or not.

the important part new players will learn in haven is how to regear, how to craft gear or get coin to buy it. if they dont learn this, they'll quit soon after moving to myrland no matter how much gear they bring with them.

allowing players to bring a whole bank encourages them to stay in haven and farm out a full bank's worth of crap, all with probably never learning about loss as well, which is not great.

we all want the same thing from haven in the end: to increase player retention. to that end its better to teach them how to fish rather than give them a fish. part of haven and the tutorial should require them to learn how to restart from losing everything, its an important core concept of MO and full loot games in general. once they have that, they dont need a bank full of gear to go to myrland.

-barcode

 

[Teknique]

So you think having a market for resources up to steel is unimportant?

Also what would you prefer, to kill a dude in full grain heavy robes with 50c, 3 common myrtus, and a tindremic sword?

Or a guy in a full set with a weapon. With the upwards potential of them having that 50k gold on them when they're transporting it.

 

[Dracu]

at some point sv could even open up haven to f2p accounts, but they need to pay to go to myrland. this way new players and f2p people can check out the game without having an effect on the myrland economy

-barcode

Yeah life is feudal had a similiar system which is not bad....ok i buy your argument why haven can be better in the long run then a simple tutorial^^

 

[Eldrath]

The way it's designed it helps the large number of new people who will be trying the game get established. It's not designed around vets who want to exploit the systems. And it shouldn't be scrapped because a few vets see it as being too "nice" or "soft" on new players.

Actually no one made that argument about nice and soft gameplay. Strawman.

If it is not designed around veterans exploiting the system, then it should not be exploitable. Pretty simple really. Which is what this thread is about.

Also what would you prefer, to kill a dude in full grain heavy robes with 50c, 3 common myrtus, and a tindremic sword?

Or a guy in a full set with a weapon. With the upwards potential of them having that 50k gold on them when they're transporting it.

Personally I don´t care what they are carrying - I´d kill them all the same. I´d rather have them enjoy the game instead of spending their noob days on an island full of veterans afk mining. But hey, maybe you think that´s what people are looking for in 2020.

I more think that a wealthy tindrem isn't a bad thing and at worse an irrelevant thing. If they want to transport those materials outside of tindrem then let them. Keep in mind Tindrem was noob island before noob island. What happens in tindrem stays irrlevant.

I don´t remember people in Tindrem having a permanent yellow flag. I also don´t remember it being an instance that can run potentially dozens of times. So... no?

 

[KermyWormy]

Actually no one made that argument about nice and soft gameplay. Strawman.

If it is not designed around veterans exploiting the system, then it should not be exploitable. Pretty simple really. Which is what this thread is about.




Personally I don´t care what they are carrying - I´d kill them all the same. I´d rather have them enjoy the game instead of spending their noob days on an island full of veterans afk mining. But hey, maybe you think that´s what people are looking for in 2020.



I don´t remember people in Tindrem having a permanent yellow flag. I also don´t remember it being an instance that can run potentially dozens of times. So... no?

I can call it how I see it, you don't have to agree mate.

My point tho is that ya maybe it's not fort Knox and completely unexploitable. But it's design helps way more people than the damage you're worried about happening.

If they keep it how it is now but an account only gets one character to start there and rerolling starts you in their racial city...how is this damaging? It's got to be the simplest and best solution.

 

[Eldrath]

I can call it how I see it, you don't have to agree mate.

My point tho is that ya maybe it's not fort Knox and completely unexploitable. But it's design helps way more people than the damage you're worried about happening.

If they keep it how it is now but an account only gets one character to start there and rerolling starts you in their racial city...how is this damaging? It's got to be the simplest and best solution.

Yes, but if you missrepresent an argument to score a point I´ll call you out on it. That´s not about opinion but just intellectually dishonest.

Personally I think that would be fine if they limit the available resources somewhat. That´s why it´s part of the poll. It´s a possible solution to a possible exploit. See. above.

 

[Teknique]

Actually no one made that argument about nice and soft gameplay. Strawman.

If it is not designed around veterans exploiting the system, then it should not be exploitable. Pretty simple really. Which is what this thread is about.




Personally I don´t care what they are carrying - I´d kill them all the same. I´d rather have them enjoy the game instead of spending their noob days on an island full of veterans afk mining. But hey, maybe you think that´s what people are looking for in 2020.



I don´t remember people in Tindrem having a permanent yellow flag. I also don´t remember it being an instance that can run potentially dozens of times. So... no?

So you’re not contesting the rest of the argument other than Tindrem and haven are actually different as you astutely pointed out?

To summarize it a bit better. Haven isn't risk free its risk deffered. If they want to use this gold or materials outside Tindrem they will need to transport them and they can then be killed for more value than they would be to you otherwise.

Also its a bit strange to say you're concerned about their enjoyment and that you will kill them naked in the same breath.

 

[Eldrath]

So you’re not contesting the rest of the argument other than Tindrem and haven are actually different as you astutely pointed out?

To summarize it a bit better. Haven isn't risk free its risk deffered. If they want to use this gold or materials outside Tindrem they will need to transport them and they can then be killed for more value than they would be to you otherwise.

Also its a bit strange to say you're concerned about their enjoyment and that you will kill them naked in the same breath.

It´s not strange at all. It´s called a full loot sandbox with role playing elements. The only way I get to kill anyone is for them to enjoy the game. If there is no one enjoying the game there is no game.

Also you can transport your stuff from Haven to your racial city (whatever those will be). So not just Tindrem. That´s what has been said on the matter. So if I am Vadda based, farm my shit on Haven and then teleport it there I won´t do any transporting.

I don´t mind noobs getting somewhat wealthy on Haven. I do mind the permanant introduction of a safe zone for veterans.

I also don´t get why people are saying it should "stay" as it is. Haven is not build for MO2 yet (afawk). So any suggestion here might just flow into the design at no extra developer costs. It´s not like that can just port MO1 Haven over to MO2.