Final Thoughts - A new and departing player

Dazin

Member
Jan 29, 2022
30
48
18
I thought I would share my perspective for whatever it’s worth and then I’m moving on from MO2. I spent a little over 500 hours in game and have played MMO’s such as Warhammer, Shadowbane, ESO, EQ, and many other over the past 20 years and always achieved max level “end game content”.

In MO2 I rolled a human for flexibility in play style and tried mage/tamer, hybrid, and MA builds as well as crafting. I split time between Moh Ki and Meduli. I did almost every dungeon and boss, I spent time in Wardens and KoTo, and engaged in small and large scale PvP. In short, I feel I experienced most everything MO2 has to offer other than playing other build/races which mostly lends itself to foot fighters and that is not a play style I enjoy nor was it viable for me as a West Coast NA player given the latency issues.

In terms of graphics MO2 looks amazing, though it was a little disappointing to see so called towns or cities really resemble outposts. I generally enjoy larger maps but found the lack of content surprising and it’s probably the most empty and bland map I’ve ever played on. Map size and lack of real points of interest also is prohibitive of quality PvP in my opinion. I recall multiple times spending 3 hours plus in a PvP roaming group just trying to find fights. The vast majority of time you are unfortunately just playing a horse riding sim.

In terms of character development I was initially excited by what seemed to be a wide range of options but the reality is that character development to include crafting is extremely broad yet very shallow. There just is little depth in viable/quality options that are available just as it appears you have all these options with different weights but only several are any good. It was especially frustrating that many systems listed or showing in game simply are broken or unfinished, i.e domination, which makes MO2 even more challenging for a new player. Frankly I‘ve never played a game with so many things broken or unfinished, even as an alpha tester for various MMO’s over the years.

PVE in MO2 is the worst I’ve ever seen. The AI and mob pathing/leashing is atrocious and there are no skill checks or in depth strats needed for bosses. To make things worse, most bosses offer very little in terms of loot other than to a select group/niche of players. Every “raid” I went on was to support guild mates and experience the content; there was nothing of value to my character. Generally though I don’t care too much about PvE in a game I’m playing to experience PvP.

When it comes to PvP in MO2 there is no there there. No TC, no sieging, nothing that has any kind of effect or meaning other than a very temporary gratification over vanquishing your foe(s) that is vastly overshadowed by the amount of time you have to spend in game to even find a meaningful PvP encounter.
When you account for skill level differences between veteran players vs new, gear superiority, and severe latency issues depending on location, it’s very difficult for new players to be competitive, if not impossible

Recent self proclaimed decisions to gate/prevent certain builds and play styles from current and future content Is also discouraging to new players who don’t have the luxury of multiple accounts. Why should I invest time in my character and eagerly await new content to just find out my character doesn‘t fit SV‘s “vision”.

Last but not least, it became apparent to me that SV likely lacks the vision to make MO2 successful and the technical competence to implement that vision. I do feel some posters here are way too emotional and takes things to far in expressing that emotion, but when it comes to the underlying issue they are almost always correct.

Nonetheless I don’t regret my time in MO2 as it was an interesting and refreshing experience in some respects and the in-game community is great. KoTo especially was a blast to hang out with and Wardens was cool too until all the drama went down.

TLDR: cya
 

Castiel

Member
Feb 25, 2021
36
24
8
Well put and pretty accurate however faulting an alpha for being broken and unfinished is unfair, even for SV which I'm not a fan. I'm not holding my breath but SV seems to be doing better with MO2 alpha than it ever was with MO1. If you think MO2 alpha is bad, you must have not been around for MO1 beta.

I don't fault you for speaking out as I fully understand why you feel that way, but I've seen these post too many times in the past. Over dramatic and totally negate the unique thrill only MO can give at least for now. I think you'll do what most of us do when we hit that point and that is to take a break until the next big update to drop. I hope you have some good time away and I look forward to seeing you back in game in the next 7 months.
 

zers

Active member
Aug 4, 2021
121
111
43
I thought I would share my perspective for whatever it’s worth and then I’m moving on from MO2. I spent a little over 500 hours in game and have played MMO’s such as Warhammer, Shadowbane, ESO, EQ, and many other over the past 20 years and always achieved max level “end game content”.

In MO2 I rolled a human for flexibility in play style and tried mage/tamer, hybrid, and MA builds as well as crafting. I split time between Moh Ki and Meduli. I did almost every dungeon and boss, I spent time in Wardens and KoTo, and engaged in small and large scale PvP. In short, I feel I experienced most everything MO2 has to offer other than playing other build/races which mostly lends itself to foot fighters and that is not a play style I enjoy nor was it viable for me as a West Coast NA player given the latency issues.

In terms of graphics MO2 looks amazing, though it was a little disappointing to see so called towns or cities really resemble outposts. I generally enjoy larger maps but found the lack of content surprising and it’s probably the most empty and bland map I’ve ever played on. Map size and lack of real points of interest also is prohibitive of quality PvP in my opinion. I recall multiple times spending 3 hours plus in a PvP roaming group just trying to find fights. The vast majority of time you are unfortunately just playing a horse riding sim.

In terms of character development I was initially excited by what seemed to be a wide range of options but the reality is that character development to include crafting is extremely broad yet very shallow. There just is little depth in viable/quality options that are available just as it appears you have all these options with different weights but only several are any good. It was especially frustrating that many systems listed or showing in game simply are broken or unfinished, i.e domination, which makes MO2 even more challenging for a new player. Frankly I‘ve never played a game with so many things broken or unfinished, even as an alpha tester for various MMO’s over the years.

PVE in MO2 is the worst I’ve ever seen. The AI and mob pathing/leashing is atrocious and there are no skill checks or in depth strats needed for bosses. To make things worse, most bosses offer very little in terms of loot other than to a select group/niche of players. Every “raid” I went on was to support guild mates and experience the content; there was nothing of value to my character. Generally though I don’t care too much about PvE in a game I’m playing to experience PvP.

When it comes to PvP in MO2 there is no there there. No TC, no sieging, nothing that has any kind of effect or meaning other than a very temporary gratification over vanquishing your foe(s) that is vastly overshadowed by the amount of time you have to spend in game to even find a meaningful PvP encounter.
When you account for skill level differences between veteran players vs new, gear superiority, and severe latency issues depending on location, it’s very difficult for new players to be competitive, if not impossible

Recent self proclaimed decisions to gate/prevent certain builds and play styles from current and future content Is also discouraging to new players who don’t have the luxury of multiple accounts. Why should I invest time in my character and eagerly await new content to just find out my character doesn‘t fit SV‘s “vision”.

Last but not least, it became apparent to me that SV likely lacks the vision to make MO2 successful and the technical competence to implement that vision. I do feel some posters here are way too emotional and takes things to far in expressing that emotion, but when it comes to the underlying issue they are almost always correct.

Nonetheless I don’t regret my time in MO2 as it was an interesting and refreshing experience in some respects and the in-game community is great. KoTo especially was a blast to hang out with and Wardens was cool too until all the drama went down.

TLDR: cya
give ur stuff to me then or u capping like that streamer named oghmir who said he quit for attention
 

Malmsteen

Member
Jul 29, 2022
63
16
8
Maybe you are unhappy with your irl and subconsciously taking it out on the game because you no lifed it for 500 hrs straight and now your even more depressed?
 

Jackdstripper

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2021
1,099
992
113
Well put and pretty accurate however faulting an alpha for being broken and unfinished is unfair, even for SV which I'm not a fan.

MO is not in alpha, its been out for 12 years. MO2 is nothing but a graphically updated version of MO1. Enough making excuses. Game has been out for ages. The alpha excuse is getting old af.


To OP. You pretty much got it right. Ad to those issues all the bugs and very poor support by GMs and thats why this games has remained on life support since forever. Enough said.
 
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Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
2,859
927
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I thought I would share my perspective for whatever it’s worth and then I’m moving on from MO2. I spent a little over 500 hours in game and have played MMO’s such as Warhammer, Shadowbane, ESO, EQ, and many other over the past 20 years and always achieved max level “end game content”.

In MO2 I rolled a human for flexibility in play style and tried mage/tamer, hybrid, and MA builds as well as crafting. I split time between Moh Ki and Meduli. I did almost every dungeon and boss, I spent time in Wardens and KoTo, and engaged in small and large scale PvP. In short, I feel I experienced most everything MO2 has to offer other than playing other build/races which mostly lends itself to foot fighters and that is not a play style I enjoy nor was it viable for me as a West Coast NA player given the latency issues.

In terms of graphics MO2 looks amazing, though it was a little disappointing to see so called towns or cities really resemble outposts. I generally enjoy larger maps but found the lack of content surprising and it’s probably the most empty and bland map I’ve ever played on. Map size and lack of real points of interest also is prohibitive of quality PvP in my opinion. I recall multiple times spending 3 hours plus in a PvP roaming group just trying to find fights. The vast majority of time you are unfortunately just playing a horse riding sim.

In terms of character development I was initially excited by what seemed to be a wide range of options but the reality is that character development to include crafting is extremely broad yet very shallow. There just is little depth in viable/quality options that are available just as it appears you have all these options with different weights but only several are any good. It was especially frustrating that many systems listed or showing in game simply are broken or unfinished, i.e domination, which makes MO2 even more challenging for a new player. Frankly I‘ve never played a game with so many things broken or unfinished, even as an alpha tester for various MMO’s over the years.

PVE in MO2 is the worst I’ve ever seen. The AI and mob pathing/leashing is atrocious and there are no skill checks or in depth strats needed for bosses. To make things worse, most bosses offer very little in terms of loot other than to a select group/niche of players. Every “raid” I went on was to support guild mates and experience the content; there was nothing of value to my character. Generally though I don’t care too much about PvE in a game I’m playing to experience PvP.

When it comes to PvP in MO2 there is no there there. No TC, no sieging, nothing that has any kind of effect or meaning other than a very temporary gratification over vanquishing your foe(s) that is vastly overshadowed by the amount of time you have to spend in game to even find a meaningful PvP encounter.
When you account for skill level differences between veteran players vs new, gear superiority, and severe latency issues depending on location, it’s very difficult for new players to be competitive, if not impossible

Recent self proclaimed decisions to gate/prevent certain builds and play styles from current and future content Is also discouraging to new players who don’t have the luxury of multiple accounts. Why should I invest time in my character and eagerly await new content to just find out my character doesn‘t fit SV‘s “vision”.

Last but not least, it became apparent to me that SV likely lacks the vision to make MO2 successful and the technical competence to implement that vision. I do feel some posters here are way too emotional and takes things to far in expressing that emotion, but when it comes to the underlying issue they are almost always correct.

Nonetheless I don’t regret my time in MO2 as it was an interesting and refreshing experience in some respects and the in-game community is great. KoTo especially was a blast to hang out with and Wardens was cool too until all the drama went down.

TLDR: cya

luv.

Saw your name go by on forums, so I know you were there. haha. THAT PURPLE ICON.

Pretty much everyone is gonna agree with you, on one level or another. I guess the one thing I can say is I really feel while MO lacks the ability to be played like you played... there is a content wall in the supposed path a 'normal player' is supposed to go. Yes, that will change will siege. It just will. Siege may not balance anything, but it's going to get a lot of shit duff'd.

The only thing I can say is MO offers a unique experience if you really peel back your expectations and just play it like a first person "do whatever" game. Complex goals don't matter that much because most of them are based on EPIC GRIND or EPIC ZERG.

Tru tru about horse sim, and yea, the 'dashboard view' of a horse with a bow out does get kind of zzz in every vid, but that's how it be. I'd just log off tho. Field log. This sucks field log. lol. low chance you die doing it, yknow? The no there there is also true, but... you can still mess around and do things that are fun, do less grandiose things.

Obv game is no sub (and their mention of it is like :eek:!! ) and when the sub is on, that's gonna change everything, but I think you might also be looking (not victim shaming players, just 2c) in the wrong place in big guilds. Dudes can be cool, and v effective, but 'playing the game' is actually detrimental to fun, so the work dudes are putting in on doing stuff to make gains in the game is not fun, imo. Preset roams to look for fights imo are not fun. Unless you're with oykd then that shit is funny.
 
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Farligbonde

Active member
Jan 7, 2021
187
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43
Fair review of your time spent.
Thanks for sharing. This kind of feedback is valuable... If SV would read the forums that is.

It's not only about reading the forums.
The man in charge has to actually acknowledge the problems and hire the people to solve it since the current team isnt competent enough to solve them in terms of game design. ( And prob not the technical either)
 
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Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
2,859
927
113
It's not only about reading the forums.
The man in charge has to actually acknowledge the problems and hire the people to solve it since the current team isnt competent enough to solve them in terms of game design. ( And prob not the technical either)

don't believe the hype! As it's all theory and numbers, the team should be able to change the game relatively easily. Getting it right might take a sec, but no time like the present. As for new content?? lol yea you may be right, but 'solving the problems' beyond the same MO problems of 'undue gains,' should be number adjustments. Not gonna spam.
 

Bigbadwolff

Active member
Mar 29, 2021
146
75
28
40
what the matter with the players these days, just leave like a man but instead we just make drama, hold hands and cry like the girls we are
 

Kaquenqos

Active member
May 3, 2022
157
129
43
Well put and pretty accurate however faulting an alpha for being broken and unfinished is unfair, even for SV which I'm not a fan. I'm not holding my breath but SV seems to be doing better with MO2 alpha than it ever was with MO1. If you think MO2 alpha is bad, you must have not been around for MO1 beta.

I don't fault you for speaking out as I fully understand why you feel that way, but I've seen these post too many times in the past. Over dramatic and totally negate the unique thrill only MO can give at least for now. I think you'll do what most of us do when we hit that point and that is to take a break until the next big update to drop. I hope you have some good time away and I look forward to seeing you back in game in the next 7 months.

sing it with me, kids!

🐑🐑
♪ ♪ ♪
This is the alpha that doesn't end
yes it goes on and on my friend
some people started programming
Not knowing what it was,
And they'll program forever, just because
This is the alpha that doesn't end...!
♪ ♪ ♪
🐑🐑

OK...

Well... Anyway, hopefully we get some emergent content soon.

😪

(btw SV great shields do not constitute emergent content...!)

But seriously though, I agree with your overall sentiment, I just think it's a funny choice of words calling it 'alpha' when the devs did not. I mean, we the gamers know and can tell that it is alpha, but it doesn't change the fact that we are well past 1.0 right now. Maybe they needed the cash infusion from doing the premature launch, but I think it will put them on the backfoot going forward. I think they probably would have been better to try to market the early access for what it was instead of risking abusing the trust of their playerbase, which might be bad for their image long-term.

Anyway, it's always easy to be the armchair general looking back on events in retrospective, hopefully they can finish the game & deliver on some complex social mechanics to give the game the backbone it needs.
 
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Strilan

Member
May 28, 2020
46
44
18
Reading this - I didn't get "new player" vibes.

I got "alt account" vibes.

Just me tho. YMMV
 

Kaquenqos

Active member
May 3, 2022
157
129
43
IDK, threads like this one here are not the oddity. This is the general consensus of 'most' people who spend the time to finish their build & collect mats/wealth... Because, atm, there really are no dynamic social sandbox mechanics, like in depth alliance & faction systems or TC with consequences mechanically, sandbox city related mechanics(there is an auction house... which makes MO2 about as 'sandbox' as FFXIV) etc., and the PvP mechanics overall are super shoddy & shallow(rep needs attention ASAP)... SV should seriously look at what other successful MMO's with TC as a focus have done to make the mechanic compelling & try to emulate some of the better/easier to implement ideas from them.

I agree with a lot of the sentiments, although I don't think PvE is all that bad in MO2. It's certainly not outstanding or anything, but it at least meets its end-goal to some extent, unlike PvP... In terms of hunting & farming up mats, it serves a purpose & is more akin to a 'survival' game (ie. you hunt for materials in a quasi-realistic way) versus other MMOs that just focus on grinding endless mobs for exp in quest format... Personally, I prefer this, and although I do think the AI needs work, it's not the major letdown of the game. The AI is not much worse than other MMOs overall, it just seems that way since MO2 has live-action combat. Almost every MMO has leashing/reset issues, for example. In fact, exploiting bosses with leashing is nothing new to the genre. Bosses could use some work to be made more interesting mechanically; maybe designed so that certain strategies/builds are inherently better for certain bosses...

Still, I don't think PvE is where the game fails to meet expectations. Where the game fails to meet expectation is on the 'emergent content' 'sandbox' front. This should be the bread & butter of the game, and they currently leave much to be desired. There really is not much more to create emergent content in MO2 than there is in your average MMO. There is no reason for people to fight. Imagine a soccer game where nobody is keeping score. Point is, if the game beefed up social-sandbox mechanics (cities/PvP/guilds/emergent PvE&PvP turn-ins 'this week there is turn in vendor at x dungeon') and polished it up, I think nobody would care that the PvE AI is so-so(pretty much average for an MMO).

Just to clarify, I like the game and would love to see it succeed, but people who feel like there is something integral missing from the game are not unusual. Honestly, if the game is supposed to be a revolutionary player-driven sandbox, develop some sandbox mechanics for it.... Having no or shallow sandbox mechanics, does not make the game more emergent. If that was the case, VR chatroom games are the pinnacle of emergent content... The point is, that's just not how game design works, period, from a very basic 'game mechanics' standpoint. If you want a realistic world in an MMO, you do not achieve that by dropping players into it with no underlying mechanics. The real world has 24/7 inhabitants to create society by interacting with real physical environmental factors/limitations, as well as one another. A game world does not have physics, resources, politics, or 24/7 inhabitants & the tribal affiliations that these things create, so you, as the game designer, have to simulate an approximate of them with mechanics. Less is not more here.

MO2 does mechanically have the groundworks in place up to (around) the standard of an open world single-player RPG (clades, skills, professions, etc.), but stops short of doing anything that simulates real world society(except maybe the trade broker?). For example, fleshing out city mechanics with trade guilds, city-factions, dynamic consequences for TC (maybe some kind of buff related to them, or passive resource income of some kind, idk), turn-ins that change weekly, altering environmental factors to create shortages of certain mats, complex reputation/PK systems, etc. etc. etc... are ways to create the kind of groundworks necessary.
 
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Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
I thought I would share my perspective for whatever it’s worth and then I’m moving on from MO2. I spent a little over 500 hours in game and have played MMO’s such as Warhammer, Shadowbane, ESO, EQ, and many other over the past 20 years and always achieved max level “end game content”.

In MO2 I rolled a human for flexibility in play style and tried mage/tamer, hybrid, and MA builds as well as crafting. I split time between Moh Ki and Meduli. I did almost every dungeon and boss, I spent time in Wardens and KoTo, and engaged in small and large scale PvP. In short, I feel I experienced most everything MO2 has to offer other than playing other build/races which mostly lends itself to foot fighters and that is not a play style I enjoy nor was it viable for me as a West Coast NA player given the latency issues.

In terms of graphics MO2 looks amazing, though it was a little disappointing to see so called towns or cities really resemble outposts. I generally enjoy larger maps but found the lack of content surprising and it’s probably the most empty and bland map I’ve ever played on. Map size and lack of real points of interest also is prohibitive of quality PvP in my opinion. I recall multiple times spending 3 hours plus in a PvP roaming group just trying to find fights. The vast majority of time you are unfortunately just playing a horse riding sim.

In terms of character development I was initially excited by what seemed to be a wide range of options but the reality is that character development to include crafting is extremely broad yet very shallow. There just is little depth in viable/quality options that are available just as it appears you have all these options with different weights but only several are any good. It was especially frustrating that many systems listed or showing in game simply are broken or unfinished, i.e domination, which makes MO2 even more challenging for a new player. Frankly I‘ve never played a game with so many things broken or unfinished, even as an alpha tester for various MMO’s over the years.

PVE in MO2 is the worst I’ve ever seen. The AI and mob pathing/leashing is atrocious and there are no skill checks or in depth strats needed for bosses. To make things worse, most bosses offer very little in terms of loot other than to a select group/niche of players. Every “raid” I went on was to support guild mates and experience the content; there was nothing of value to my character. Generally though I don’t care too much about PvE in a game I’m playing to experience PvP.

When it comes to PvP in MO2 there is no there there. No TC, no sieging, nothing that has any kind of effect or meaning other than a very temporary gratification over vanquishing your foe(s) that is vastly overshadowed by the amount of time you have to spend in game to even find a meaningful PvP encounter.
When you account for skill level differences between veteran players vs new, gear superiority, and severe latency issues depending on location, it’s very difficult for new players to be competitive, if not impossible

Recent self proclaimed decisions to gate/prevent certain builds and play styles from current and future content Is also discouraging to new players who don’t have the luxury of multiple accounts. Why should I invest time in my character and eagerly await new content to just find out my character doesn‘t fit SV‘s “vision”.

Last but not least, it became apparent to me that SV likely lacks the vision to make MO2 successful and the technical competence to implement that vision. I do feel some posters here are way too emotional and takes things to far in expressing that emotion, but when it comes to the underlying issue they are almost always correct.

Nonetheless I don’t regret my time in MO2 as it was an interesting and refreshing experience in some respects and the in-game community is great. KoTo especially was a blast to hang out with and Wardens was cool too until all the drama went down.

TLDR: cya
Great review, but how could you say AI is broken and PVE-crafting is bad. People enjoy this content, how dare you!

I guess one can live with generic bought ue4 assets, frankly i don't care. I don't care if the game has the same graphix than the previous version aslong as it makes sense and its just not a stinking pile of placeholder content.
 
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Jatix

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
882
767
93
Spot on. What sucks is that for every intelligent feedback post like this, there's some fanboy saying that the world is way too small and finding pvp should take 5 hours. "If you want pvp fast go play a BR".
 
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Strilan

Member
May 28, 2020
46
44
18
I don't get this strilan, what does it has to do with anything. If this dude was a vet or a fresh steam noob what would it be the difference, what he said is true.

"What does it have to do with anything."

Well the title... The first line... The first thing he says in this entire thread is:
Final Thoughts - A new and departing player

I mean... If you don't know - now you know? I never said what he said was true or false, I said exactly what I said and that's it.

Whatever you're doing? Stop it.
 
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Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
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"What does it have to do with anything."

Well the title... The first line... The first thing he says in this entire thread is:
Final Thoughts - A new and departing player

I mean... If you don't know - now you know? I never said what he said was true or false, I said exactly what I said and that's it.

Whatever you're doing? Stop it.
It could be a new" player to the mortal 2 game experience. I don't see anything wrong here.

Congratz strilan u the number 500

1660326107332.png
 
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