Extraction Poll

[DwarfLord]

Make it work like butchery. I don't see a reason not to other than spiteful design. The extraction timer seems to just be in the game because the GMs want a chance to screw with said extractors before they can get their loot. It's already heavy as crap, hard to get back in large quantities, and highly trafficked. I don't see the real reason why it needs a timer.

I'll add your suggestion as "Remove all timers/Copy Current Butchery"

SIDE NOTE: Hopefully folks here realize no suggestion is a final say and all of these are based on experience that will add to the total data. People may give reasons as to why one's suggestion may or may not work, ect but rather I'd ask to just let the poll do it's job. If you come up with another suggestion that isn't on the list then I will find a way to add it. Thank you all for understanding!

 

[Banespike]

i would like, more skill = faster extraction 0 skill = 5 mins, 100 skill maybe like 1 min

 

[Evelyn]

Make it work like butchery. I don't see a reason not to other than spiteful design. The extraction timer seems to just be in the game because the GMs want a chance to screw with said extractors before they can get their loot. It's already heavy as crap, hard to get back in large quantities, and highly trafficked. I don't see the real reason why it needs a timer.

This. The extraction timers for ore and veggies/fruits/herbs is just outdated time-wasting in a game that's already designed by its scale to waste copious amounts of time.

 

[Nefnate]

I feel like the majority isn't considering the whole picture, and are more focused on the timer not feeling good with only a specific lens in place; getting your PvP enabling materials fast. I could agree that:

10 minute timers for extraction is way too much, IF, you are stuck doing nothing waiting for it.

That is not the case.

That 10 minutes is free, open time. You can move, leave, even come back late (if your extraction bag isn't stolen). Some casual things I commonly do while something is extracting, based out of Fabernum:

• Walk to town to craft.
• Walk to town to check trade broker.
• Take a quick ride over to the GY and grab a few kills.
• Mine more Ore.
• Chop a nearby tree.
• Gather wild plants.
• Hunt a Springbok or two.

That right there? Is multitasking. It actually increases productivity when done correctly.

Something else to consider, for the PvP/Hardcore crowd...

You want people to be able to process that much product freely? To be able to take 5 stacks of something, process it in a short time and bail out before anyone can really do anything? Or do you want the ability to control those points and be able to patrol them for PvP and content?

If people are able to process materials so swiftly and safely, banks will get filled. When banks are filled, people leave town less. When people leave town less, the game decays. Suddenly the world feels dead and people only log in when a ping comes saying "PVP!!!"; making material production fast, degrades the game-play loop.

Concerning PvP, 10 minute timers enable:

• Vulnerability.
  • For an attacker, this is opportunity. For the defender, it can be exciting to have to be vigilant.
    • The machines activate and make noise when they are first used.
    • A player could be sighted at the location.
    • A patrol could easy pop in to check now and again during rounds.
• Control
  • BC of the above points, a governing guild or alliances could effectively shut down an entire areas production.
    • This breeds conflict, as it forces defence or relocation (or, people quitting, if the camping is too intense).

It's basically like Capture the Flag, or, Tower Defence.

I feel like the system is set up to enable dynamic, control point orientated PvP. I like it. *shrug*

EDIT:

I do think tweaking could be made. I am not against mini-games, or options to lessen yield for a faster timer. Such things would need to be broken down and dicussed with the entire gameplay loop in mind, though. Not just "reduce the timers!"~

 

[Jatix]

Something else to consider, for the PvP/Hardcore crowd...

You want people to be able to process that much product freely? To be able to take 5 stacks of something, process it in a short time and bail out before anyone can really do anything? Or do you want the ability to control those points and be able to patrol them for PvP and content?

If people are able to process materials so swiftly and safely, banks will get filled. When banks are filled, people leave town less. When people leave town less, the game decays. Suddenly the world feels dead and people only log in when a ping comes saying "PVP!!!"; making material production fast, degrades the game-play loop.

Killing an extractor at his guard zone crusher isnt pvp. And anyone trying to find pvp there isnt looking for a fight they are looking for AFK'ers to kill, probobly with a bow.

People make it sound like the only part of getting metal is extraction timers. I thought the point was to mine rocks. And for higher end metals these rocks are usually limited and in specific regions. Calx needs travel for most towns, etc. So no, changing extraction timers wont all of a sudden make everyone have a bank full of cronite.

And if changing timers is that bad everyones going to have banks full of everything but metal. But they wont because animal mats are still limited by having to get the carcass, mob spawn rates, and having to travel to the butcher table with to to get the good mats.

 

[Kallardian Prince]

Massively reduce mining yield in and around town. Increase the time it takes to mine. Reduce extraction timers based on ore tier. This will make the game 100x better.

 

[Eldrath]

Increase timers and make the drooped loot grey again.

 

[Amadman]

What I hope for is multiple options or a combination of some of the things in the poll.

I do hope that there is a return of the que in the future.

If there are mini games then I hope they are optional.


Personally I would like to be able to control the length of time required in some way.

Where you could speed up or slow down the process based on needs.

Of coarse skill, quantities and qualities would be factors.

 

[Nefnate]

Killing an extractor at his guard zone crusher isnt pvp. And anyone trying to find pvp there isnt looking for a fight they are looking for AFK'ers to kill, probobly with a bow.

People make it sound like the only part of getting metal is extraction timers. I thought the point was to mine rocks. And for higher end metals these rocks are usually limited and in specific regions. Calx needs travel for most towns, etc. So no, changing extraction timers wont all of a sudden make everyone have a bank full of cronite.

And if changing timers is that bad everyones going to have banks full of everything but metal. But they wont because animal mats are still limited by having to get the carcass, mob spawn rates, and having to travel to the butcher table with to to get the good mats.

I hear your points about AFK/extractors, but I can't accept them. If a person chooses to go AFK for 10 minutes with materials on the line, that's their choice, and they need to accept the potential consequences. Not only that, but with the divide between crafting and action skills now, every character should be in SOME form combat able - it isn't MO1 where an extractor is a waddling wad of paper. EDIT: Not to mention, there is nothing stopping these "AFK" players from walking a minute to a town gate (where applicable) and afking there for the majority of the timer.

On top of that, you said GZ (I assume bc I referenced Fab) - there are non-GZ extraction areas, and from what I have seen, the extractions areas that ARE covered by a GZ do not have a heavy guard presence.

Taking away extraction or shortening it seriously diminishes the entire point of mining. It is supposed to be time consuming and a pain in the ass. It is supposed to take thought and time, and the pay off is metal. I feel like too many people are acclimated to the MO1 environment, where we had a major surplus of metals for a long time. The game is not meant to be Metal Online, metal armor and weapons are supposed to be expensive and powerful, not the default.

 

[Kaemik]

I voted for Mini-game # 1 because it's the closest to what I actually want:

Mini-game, reduce timers but no increased yields. However, a small chance to find a gem while extracting. If it is say usually 1% per 1000 units refined, then it may go up to 2% per 1000 units refined if you play the games perfectly.

So overall, mini-game success = MUCH faster refining times and a chance at a neat bonus reward.

Then timers should be added to all forms of crafting with appropriate mini-games. Re-introduce the chance to make legendary crafted items with mini-game success for them doubling the chance of a legendary.

Because crafting is now much more time-consuming as opposed to purely about how many mats you burn, remove professions caps but increase their time to level considerably.

"I hate mini-games! I don't want to spend a long time leveling my craft!"

Then afk hit rocks and trees for your guild. Or just focus on combat. Crafting should be an engaging and involved process for people who actually enjoy crafting.

"Going to take forever to make like a dozen or more mini-games for every form of crafting"

Yup. Start with 1. Something incredibly simple like mini-games from Fable 2 and 3. Then improve upon that system over time. 1 mini-game applied to every craft is still a major upgrade from the glorified gathering system that is WoW-Clone crafting: "Select recipe, short timer, resources used and item made"

 

[grendel]

I find that extracting and refining in Tindrem is in itself a minigame. The logistics of operating attractor, furnace and crusher simultaneously, while also doing other small tasks, is very far from being afk waiting for someone to try and gank/rob you.

 

[Dracu]

extraction needs to be longer, i hate only waiting 400 seconds per stack. Way to short, should take a whole day per stack so it has more value and pride and accomplishment

 

[Rorry]

In order to level up crafting skills we will need to make thousands of items, it would be very annoying to have to play a mini game thousands of times. (I know this thread is about extraction, but others have mentioned crafting.)

 

[Jatix]

I hear your points about AFK/extractors, but I can't accept them. If a person chooses to go AFK for 10 minutes with materials on the line, that's their choice, and they need to accept the potential consequences. Not only that, but with the divide between crafting and action skills now, every character should be in SOME form combat able - it isn't MO1 where an extractor is a waddling wad of paper. EDIT: Not to mention, there is nothing stopping these "AFK" players from walking a minute to a town gate (where applicable) and afking there for the majority of the timer.

On top of that, you said GZ (I assume bc I referenced Fab) - there are non-GZ extraction areas, and from what I have seen, the extractions areas that ARE covered by a GZ do not have a heavy guard presence.

Taking away extraction or shortening it seriously diminishes the entire point of mining. It is supposed to be time consuming and a pain in the ass. It is supposed to take thought and time, and the pay off is metal. I feel like too many people are acclimated to the MO1 environment, where we had a major surplus of metals for a long time. The game is not meant to be Metal Online, metal armor and weapons are supposed to be expensive and powerful, not the default.

People want to afk for 10 mins because the system is bad. And walking to town to afk still just shows that its a bad system. Good gameplay doesnt involve AFK'ing for 10 mins.

The first town I was thinking of was Meduli which the extractors are at guards, but many blue towns have extraction at the guardzone. GK doesnt but you arent extracting in GK if you arent the guild that owns GK, so I'd say thats even more safe than a town. Especially with the over sized map, one isnt just going to casually roam to GK to get zerged.

If something is designed to be a time consuming pain in the ass its probobly designed poorly.

Low end metals are the default for weapons, animal materials don't come close to even flake/jade/cuprum. If getting ironbone armor takes 0 effort, getting a flake sword shouldn't take 10 mins of sitting afk at a extractor.

I'm not saying they should make it so ogh is ez and fast to make, I'm saying it shouldn't be balanced around having shit extraction timers to limit gains, when you have 1 character and cant do anything while waiting. when you go kill mobs you are out farming, going to or from your mob. You might attack someone or get jumped. You want to farm more, you do trips back and forth. You can speed this up by killing faster, better mount, etc. Extraction just sucks, you do nothing, you just sit there waiting because the timer said so. This is bad game design.

 

[Kaemik]

In order to level up crafting skills we will need to make thousands of items, it would be very annoying to have to play a mini game thousands of times. (I know this thread is about extraction, but others have mentioned crafting.)

Then don't be a crafter. Extraction, gathering, crafting, PvP, PvE, why would any style of play be catered around people who don't want to need to actually devote time to it?

That being said, in Wurm, you can level from 1-100 on a single item. Leveling to 100 takes like a year or more. "We will need to makes thousands of items" you're talking about a WoW Clone crafting system still. It doesn't need to be that way.

 

[Rorry]

Then don't be a crafter. Extraction, gathering, crafting, PvP, PvE, why would any style of play be catered around people who don't want to need to actually devote time to it?

That being said, in Wurm, you can level from 1-100 on a single item. Leveling to 100 takes like a year or more. "We will need to makes thousands of items" you're talking about a WoW Clone crafting system still. It doesn't need to be that way.

It will be that way though, they have no plans to change it, we have what we are going to have, except slowed X100.
Therefore, playing a mini game a thousand times, would that increase your enjoyment of the game?
I have zero problem with devoting time to it, just don't want to have to play a mini game a thousand times.

 

[MaDeuce]

Minigame #2 is quite appealing simply because it's skill based.

 

[Kaemik]

It will be that way though, they have no plans to change it, we have what we are going to have, except slowed X100.
Therefore, playing a mini game a thousand times, would that increase your enjoyment of the game?
I have zero problem with devoting time to it, just don't want to have to play a mini game a thousand times.

1. They probably won't read this suggestion and do anything. But I'm not going to not suggest good mechanics from an assumption they won't implement them fully.

2. Yes. I played the Fable mini-game thousands of times probably TBH. Did the fishing game in Stardew quite a few as well. And spent a lot more time than that using the simple improvement games in Wurm. Crafting is not a chore if it's something you enjoy.

3. The "crafting" found in most MMOs is not crafting, it's gathering. When you say "I have zero problem devoting time to it" what you actually mean is "I'll devote a few minutes to it and a lot of time to acquiring the resources to do it." But that isn't being a crafter and it really shouldn't be the way to advance crafting. Crafting is what happens AFTER you acquire resources, and we've let MMOs slide with making it a shallow fraction of a system too long.

 

[lord_yoshi]

Based on Henrik's discord responses on the matter, it seems that mining/extracting is intentionally designed to be a mindless time waster to distinguish it from hunting/butchery, or in other words, if you don't like it, make money some other way.

 

[Amadman]

There have been discussions about mini games many times, and it almost always comes up that it should optional. So I believe if SV has any plans to do mini games then there is a good chance they are considering making them optional.

Some players lump mining and extracting together. Even though many extractors will mine their own ore, the two activities are separate. Many players other than extractors will have the ability to mine. So there should be many opportunities for an extractor to just buy the ore they need and extract it. This makes it where extracting can not truly be balanced by making changes to mining.

Hopefully there are also opportunities for players to buy regional based ore (and other items) in their region and transport it to other places to sell for a profit as well.

In the end it will come down to getting enough players with a good mix of playstyles for it to work well. Since the game will need a strong economy and market for individuals to easily trade. Then players can trade things they get by doing what they like. And then use the proceeds to purchase the things they do not want too or can't get themselves. As the game is intended.