D
Deleted member 44
Guest
Please move the domination skill from under ecumenical to under a shared pool of domestication and magic schools.
I actually agree and I'll give a reason.
Because fighters can't take domination without a 200 point investment, while all mages would usually have at least some ecumenical in their build. So however high they had it is discounted from the 200 point investment.
Fighters already carry a lot in their builds. Sure your basic skills to swing a sword are cheap but they need to take archery for ranged capabilities and anatomy as well to really be fully viable IMO while mages get ranged and heals baked into their build.
I can't think of any reason a fighter with a dominated pet is more op than a mage with a dominated pet, so more build options is better. Right now if a fighter wanted to take it I'd tell them it's a bad build because it has too many wasted points. If it was under a secondary like magic schools instead I would tell them it's just as viable as any fighter/tamer build currently is.
Because fighters can't take domination without a 200 point investment, while all mages would usually have at least some ecumenical in their build. So however high they had it is discounted from the 200 point investment.
Fighters already carry a lot in their builds. Sure your basic skills to swing a sword are cheap but they need to take archery for ranged capabilities and anatomy as well to really be fully viable IMO while mages get ranged and heals baked into their build.
I can't think of any reason a fighter with a dominated pet is more op than a mage with a dominated pet, so more build options is better. Right now if a fighter wanted to take it I'd tell them it's a bad build because it has too many wasted points. If it was under a secondary like magic schools instead I would tell them it's just as viable as any fighter/tamer build currently is.
D
Deleted member 44
Guest
You can't tame elite monsters. That's the reason to have domination. Having the only route to be a dominator have a requirement to be a mage lowers build diversity.
Not only that but when you say "get taming" do you mean get it on my taming dedicated alt and then just run creature control on my main?
Because that's my plan for persistent and I've tested the associated builds enough before this last wipe to know it's going to work.
Domination is a 100 point investment on a main to get access to exclusive and powerful pets that cannot be traded.
Taming is a skill that should be a profession as it yields tradable items and has no in-combat application. It's a skill for carebears and alts while the creature control line is the true pillar of beastmaster builds and needed by both those using tamed and dominated pets.
They're two completely separate things.
Because that's my plan for persistent and I've tested the associated builds enough before this last wipe to know it's going to work.
Domination is a 100 point investment on a main to get access to exclusive and powerful pets that cannot be traded.
Taming is a skill that should be a profession as it yields tradable items and has no in-combat application. It's a skill for carebears and alts while the creature control line is the true pillar of beastmaster builds and needed by both those using tamed and dominated pets.
They're two completely separate things.
Last edited:
domination is a subskill of magic because lore of the game.. you use your magic to dominate the creatures mind. make a build with that in mind if you want domination or stick with taming.
Right but just putting it as a secondary under magic schools achieves this. There is no clear connection as to why you need a school that gives healing, fireballs, lighting bolts, and corrupt to dominate the mind of another creature. It's not even like it's locked behind a "telepathy" or "enchantment" school. If it were, I probably would agree with you.
And you're going to really see this make less sense the more schools we get. When we have like 12 schools or whatever to choose from mages that don't even run ecumenical will likely be common or even dominant. Why should someone with a build focused around harmonism or staff magic need ecumenical in specific to get domination? It doesn't even make sense thematically at that point.
If this suggestion were implemented, it would fix that too.
Edit: There is straight-up a school called mentalism. Why should a mentalist need ecumenical to take dominate???
Mortal Online 2 Information on all things magic, the various magice schools of ecumenical, animism, demonology, necromancy, spiritism, and elementalism.
MO2 info, is a fansite for the sandbox MMO Mortal Online 2. It contains everything needed for crafting, builds, skills, books, magic and maps of the online world of nave.
Last edited:
Because again it’s a sub skill of enu magic. Enu by itself doesn’t have any pets and in the lore enu mages that specialize in domination can dominate creatures to fight for them. Many other mage circles in this game have their own pet system (necro pets.. elemental golems, etc) they don’t rely on domination.Right but just putting it as a secondary under magic schools achieves this. There is no clear connection as to why you need a school that gives healing, fireballs, lighting bolts, and corrupt to dominate the mind of another creature. It's not even like it's locked behind a "telepathy" or "enchantment" school. If it were, I probably would agree with you.
And you're going to really see this make less sense the more schools we get. When we have like 12 schools or whatever to choose from mages that don't even run ecumenical will likely be common or even dominant. Why should someone with a build focused around harmonism or staff magic need ecumenical in specific to get domination? It doesn't even make sense thematically at that point.
If this suggestion were implemented, it would fix that too.
Edit: There is straight-up a school called mentalism. Why should a mentalist need ecumenical to take dominate???
Mortal Online 2 Information on all things magic, the various magice schools of ecumenical, animism, demonology, necromancy, spiritism, and elementalism.
MO2 info, is a fansite for the sandbox MMO Mortal Online 2. It contains everything needed for crafting, builds, skills, books, magic and maps of the online world of nave.mo2info.com
If you want domination just play a mage it's like asking to make ether portals a skill of their own. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Domination is a telepathic ability. You're dominating the creature's mind to force it to serve you. If it's going to be locked behind something not all mages have, it should be locked behind mentalism.
Like if we're going to argue "no because theme/flavor" lets at least make the theme/flavor logical.
Balance and gameplay fun-wise, there is no reason to not give it to everyone. It's more powerful on a build that can drop Gheals on it anyway.
I personally enjoy the theme of fighter characters with a splash of magic very much in every setting they are present. Seeing people in heavy armor with a dominated minotaur won't only not diminish the setting/theme for me. I feel it will enhance it.
Except that's actually unbalanced and logically fits into the entire theme of what spiritism does. Unlike Ecu and Domination which have no logical thematic link other than "magic"!
Last edited:
Be willing to invest the points then. It doesn't make sense thematically that someone would be unable to master the most basic spells in the lore but simultaneously be able to use magic to mind control a minotaur.
To put the nuance on my perspective, I have no intention of shifting off magic heavy builds. Probably both of my accounts are going to run magic come persistent.
I'm perfectly willing to invest ecumenical if I choose to take domination because it's already going to be at least 62 for no fizzle tlashes on any build I would run.
But "be willing to invest the points" is a ridiculous comment. It's a flat-out bad build. Even if Shmerriks changes were implemented I would still say mage+dominated pet is the generally better build. So to lose 100 points on a build that's already not super powerful when all beastmaster builds are starved for points... It's pure idiocy to suggest running such a build.
Either you implement his changes, or you recognize the build his changes opens up is an objectively bad build with no place in competitive play.
It's a fun build concept that's in no way broken. And it's thematically fine. You invest 100 points in a magic skill. That skill is called domination. But if we want to be theme sticklers, as I said. It's mental domination, it belongs under mentalism. Why should someone need to be able to cast a lightning bolt to use mind control? It feels like you guys arguing this for the sake of arguing this, while I'm actually here considering whether or not it will make the game more fun.
I'm perfectly willing to invest ecumenical if I choose to take domination because it's already going to be at least 62 for no fizzle tlashes on any build I would run.
But "be willing to invest the points" is a ridiculous comment. It's a flat-out bad build. Even if Shmerriks changes were implemented I would still say mage+dominated pet is the generally better build. So to lose 100 points on a build that's already not super powerful when all beastmaster builds are starved for points... It's pure idiocy to suggest running such a build.
Either you implement his changes, or you recognize the build his changes opens up is an objectively bad build with no place in competitive play.
It's a fun build concept that's in no way broken. And it's thematically fine. You invest 100 points in a magic skill. That skill is called domination. But if we want to be theme sticklers, as I said. It's mental domination, it belongs under mentalism. Why should someone need to be able to cast a lightning bolt to use mind control? It feels like you guys arguing this for the sake of arguing this, while I'm actually here considering whether or not it will make the game more fun.
Last edited:
And literally. I challenge any of you to explain this. If it remains where it is, if I say, was running a build with 100 Mentalism and 100 Harmonism, I would need to drop something to pick up 100 Ecumencial to take domination. How does that make ANY thematic sense whatsoever? Please address this if you're going to continue commenting on theme.
It’s quite likely most of the spell schools will have a second skill associated with them somehow. Ecu gets dom, spiritism gets multiverse, necro will get animal mag, staff magic will get staff making, animism probably something to do with tapii. I can’t really guess at the others but they will come. Some of these will be under the main skill for the school, others like multiverse won’t be. Knowing MO, they’ll all be primaries. SV have a plan I guess, I’d like to see where they go. Right now, there’s nowhere else for them to put domination than under ecu. Maybe they will move it later, maybe not. Maybe domination is covered in the final exam at Ecumenical University. Pass that and youre good. I’d be fine if they move it later to something more appropriate. Mentalism seems more internal looking like meditation based self focus, maybe animism is the way to go.
Thematically it’s a bit strange maybe, but from a game design level it does work. Its only 100 more if you get rid of taming, which you no longer need. 100 points is not terrible to upgrade from a white bear to a spider queen or mino. You can still use tamed pets from others just fine, or just dom something smaller yourself. Now that vet works, you certainly don’t need mental offense, vitalism, whatever that most mages would require. Just bringing a pet like that into a fight is going to make an impact in a game where a single black bear can turn the tide of small fights quite easily. And you can still roll with a bear on the days you don’t feel like going all out.
As far as the taming alt thing goes, you set up an alt to bypass the requirement for taming on your main. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s no different to mining or even say farming scrolls on an alt, and it’s your right to do so. I would actually say taming is effectively a profession anyway because of the trading. But domination is different due to no trading and the raw strength of the pets, and you don’t get to break game balance for everyone just because it’s convenient for how you choose to build your characters. People already cry about pets, it would be 1000% worse if dom pets were everywhere. They will still be everywhere but more points makes it at least a little bit of a decision rather than a flat upgrade from taming.
Thematically it’s a bit strange maybe, but from a game design level it does work. Its only 100 more if you get rid of taming, which you no longer need. 100 points is not terrible to upgrade from a white bear to a spider queen or mino. You can still use tamed pets from others just fine, or just dom something smaller yourself. Now that vet works, you certainly don’t need mental offense, vitalism, whatever that most mages would require. Just bringing a pet like that into a fight is going to make an impact in a game where a single black bear can turn the tide of small fights quite easily. And you can still roll with a bear on the days you don’t feel like going all out.
As far as the taming alt thing goes, you set up an alt to bypass the requirement for taming on your main. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s no different to mining or even say farming scrolls on an alt, and it’s your right to do so. I would actually say taming is effectively a profession anyway because of the trading. But domination is different due to no trading and the raw strength of the pets, and you don’t get to break game balance for everyone just because it’s convenient for how you choose to build your characters. People already cry about pets, it would be 1000% worse if dom pets were everywhere. They will still be everywhere but more points makes it at least a little bit of a decision rather than a flat upgrade from taming.
Last edited:
Domination needs to be limited heavily in some way, and having it gated behind ecu is a good enough way. Frankly, domination/pets is a part of the game that SV has never managed to balance properly and has always been too strong so if even more people had access to it the game would be even more unbalanced/unplayable.
From a balance perspective, this is even easier to address. How is domination stronger on a foot fighter than a mage? The mage can effectively heal it in combat, and it gives the mage the frontline it desperately needs to fully pop off as a support build even if they are solo. Also, domestication skills (Because you still need creature control, adv. creature control etc.) work off of int and psy as attributes causing the fighter to already lose a handful of points over the mage if they go any kind of beastmaster route.
I mean we JUST got domination and when we were restricted to only taming the vast majority of beastmaster builds were mages even without pets being gated behind a magic skill. Why do you think that is?
My original plan in this game was to go dominator/necromancer for 2 powerful pets and minions to support them.
I've currently amended that plan to just necromancy because I've heard I actually can't run a death knight and dominated or tamed pet together. For now when necromancy doesn't exist it's amended to just creature control (without domination or taming) because I have 2 accounts and there are some very powerful tamable pets I can just trade over to my main from my alt who will be fully optimized around the profession of taming with both taming and animal care. Saving my main 100 primary points on the combat-focused account while still having access to things like level 125 white bears and terror birds. (Thanks MO2 forum balance trolls. I tried to warn you about that one.)
Don't get me wrong. I have zero intent to run this footfighter+domination build. I just think it's cool, and in no way feel threatened by it. I spend a lot of time helping newbs with their builds and I think this is a fun concept some of them would really enjoy. The more variety of VIABLE builds there are, the more fun it is to help newbs find the perfect one for who they want to be in this game.
Last edited:
I only meant that having it gated behind ecu would limit the number of people using it (which I think is very necessary.) Out of balance/ overpowered ai fighters really took the fun out of fights in MO1 and was one of the things that sent the population plummeting.
Terror birds will already be OP once nodelines are fully functional. A single terror bird can turn the outcome of a fight.
To a certain degree this is justified. I see high-level pets much like I see a set of cronite gear. It takes a long time to go get the pet you want and level it. And once it dies it's gone. These downsides do justify a lot of power. But I think pets will need a balance pass once the systems currently holding them back like node lines are fully resolved.
As I've stated in the past, what pets really need is to have active commands play a much larger role in unleashing their full potential rather than making them set-and-forget team fight carriers while you continue to focus fully on your other role.
Gating certain roles that aren't OP from playing them so "less people will use them" is no substitute for true balance.
Making builds is what I do so I don't need an established guide.
This is a FF/dominator made in the current system. I went full Kallard as human frees up a lot of points under combat maneuvering and anatomy. With another clade this would be even worse. That build is 0% bodyfat. Lean as hell. Endurance is probably the most droppable skill left. Dropping that heavy armor training so low already hurt like hell.
I'd already say this is a build for a 2 account player. Anything without foot and mounted capabilities is no-go for a 1 account player really, and this build has nothing left to pick up controlled riding and mounted archery.
Now consider that Beast Master and Beast Influence aren't working properly yet.
This is a non-viable build unless that dominated pet is buying you some REALLY good synergy a mage can't get. If someone brought this to me and said "this is my build" I'd IMMEDIATELY set to work either turning it into a hybrid (Switch race to Tindremene and pick up a ton of int, drop anatomy and archery for mental training/offense, move some armor training points and newly freed up points from attribute bonus into vitalism since the lower armor training is fine for a hybrid) or dropping domination/ecumenical to get heavy armor and another skill worth of points back if they have reliable access to a good tamer.
Getting that 99 points back from Ecu would either allow me to pick up Beast Mastery or Influence if either of those end up being essential when they are fully in, or restore heavy armor training. That's still lean as hell. But it's viable. 100 points makes a huge difference when a build is stretched as thin as this.
Last edited: