This is some WoW shit
Tough call. I feel like theres a lot more to come that the devs know about and how the glades will effect those areas. Right now, we just have a minimal view of glade gifts being useful for one thing. Much more is to come.
Do not Tie Clade Gifts to things like farming Risars.
- Thread starter KermyWormy
- Start date
Tough call. I feel like theres a lot more to come that the devs know about and how the glades will effect those areas. Right now, we just have a minimal view of glade gifts being useful for one thing. Much more is to come.
THe problem here is that many players are only here for PvP. They want to "finish" their char ASAP so they can start playing the game they way they want to. Clade gifts is a huge advantage in PvP, so every PvPer will have to dungeon crawl against their will to finish their character.
How about getting the Clade Gift experience from handing in Risar Heads? That way players can earn it by playing their own role and make money the way they want to.
How about getting the Clade Gift experience from handing in Risar Heads? That way players can earn it by playing their own role and make money the way they want to.
I hate what SV has done here with the clade gift experience...they picked the absolute worst possible way to implement it besides maybe just selling them for cash monies imo.
It's the exact kind of system you'd expect to find in every other crap generic or otherwise theme park game, and it has no place in mortal...Henrik should know this...like wtf man?
What I always have a problem with with the whole "finish a character asap" or general grind yourself to the max before you actually just play the game is that it defeats the whole purpose of having a progression system at all. The only thing to actually make progression interesting is for it to take time.
And I don't see a lot of people wanting that nor do I see SV ever implementing it, and by that alone it will always just be a grind with too much hindrance for people that want their stuff asap and too little meaning for people that actually want to progress their characters as part of their gameplay.
The game needs more specializations or things to work on for your character long term. But with every layer added people are going to complain that it adds more things for them to "maximize".
ANd the reason is that until youve completed your char, you will have a disadvantage in PvP. Imagine joining a baseball club but instead of a bat you can only use a tiny stick that gradually grows over time. To be forced to play with a stick is nothing but frustrating, and the games wont be fair, and will have no point at all until you get to use a bat like everyone else.
I get that, but I think you do also understand where I'm coming from.
It's one of the reasons why I think slow progression with low skill ceilings would work best. I think people are too apprehensive when it comes to slow long-term progression because so far there really haven't been a lot of good implementations of it.
It will take longer and add meaning to the progress and every gain would feel like an achievement and while they would have an effect it could be small enough to be cancelled out my player skill. Sure you'd still be at a disadvantage against people far higher with equal player skill, but it wouldn't be as significant.
It could also be just a way steeper ceiling, so people can get very close to maxing things out but the last "mile" to mastery should take a lot longer.
Another thing I've been talking about in the past is specialization once a skill is mastered. This would be progression on top where you can further focus on aspects of a skill that will alter gameplay a bit but not have too big of an impact power wise.
It's one of the reasons why I think slow progression with low skill ceilings would work best. I think people are too apprehensive when it comes to slow long-term progression because so far there really haven't been a lot of good implementations of it.
It will take longer and add meaning to the progress and every gain would feel like an achievement and while they would have an effect it could be small enough to be cancelled out my player skill. Sure you'd still be at a disadvantage against people far higher with equal player skill, but it wouldn't be as significant.
It could also be just a way steeper ceiling, so people can get very close to maxing things out but the last "mile" to mastery should take a lot longer.
Another thing I've been talking about in the past is specialization once a skill is mastered. This would be progression on top where you can further focus on aspects of a skill that will alter gameplay a bit but not have too big of an impact power wise.
I hope the MO continues to work on deepening the sense of freedom. Anything that makes the MO2 look like WOW-style games is the end of myrland. I don't know what plans they have but I hope this kind of thing doesn't happen.
Then imagine that person finally gets a bat and they're still lucky to hit singles because they suck and all the advantage in the world isn't going to change that fact.
I'm still not seeing thread suggestions to make the clade system better.
What I really want to get across is that there are much better ways to implement this system, a way that encourages discovery, adventure, and playing the game as you would normally, add some mystery as well, and then being rewarded with lore appropriate gifts.
I also think having so many attributes in the system is going to prove problematic with balance overtime, but it also feels like they're there because they couldn't think of any more unique clade specific things, which is understandable, the trees are of good size, but also unnecessary because attribute cap adjustments don't have to be a part of this system, originally they had a ritual system in mind for that. But what they have can be managed, as the tree is, but unlocking the gifts shouldn't be some chore you do and grind on some specific mob.
The other "tasks" Henrik talked about still don't sound engaging, there should be many many ways, and the more that fit with the lore of unlocking your true blood potential the better the system will be.
I think the core reason this is troubling is because it seems like it follows this long trend we've seen now over the years where the "new" systems that get added never have near the depth that the old ones have. All the old systems had this air of mystery about them. Going as far back as when Extraction was put in the original Beta, they had this great detailed system with a specific set of rules and varying outcomes, and they dumped it into the game and said "here, figure it out!", they didn't spell it out and say like "Calx in Grinder plus water= Calspar" or whatever, and that was an awesome experience working with others in game to see how the system worked. They didn't tell us how to make steel, or the ratio to use in refining, that added depth to the game that was truly a unique experience in Mortal Online that I have never found anywhere else. It's why despite not being thrilled with some of the direction of the game over the years, 12 years later I'm still engaged and interested and dying to be able to recreate some of those old experiences which no other game can hold a candle to in my opinion.
Same thing happened down the line with Fishing, Alchemy, and Cooking...each had their own set of issues we can all agree, but they weren't these bland, shallow list of chores you had that you knew you had to complete to get somewhere, and that's what the Clade Gift system as currently implemented feels like.
It's been mentioned many times now by many people comparing the system to some WoW themepark systems because that's how simple and basic, and uninspiring it is as implemented. It'll be this list of chores that everyone will feel compelled to do so they can finish their character, and we'll do it, many begrudgingly so, and most people don't find that enjoyable. I love the idea of Clade gifts, unique layers that tie in the lore with the race we're playing, I just strongly disagree with the system as implemented and I would encourage those that agree to let SV know why there's backlash here so they understand.
We're all fans of this game. But it doesn't do SV any favors to blindly accept poor additions to the game. The criticism comes across as toxic sometimes, I get that, but for most people that outcry comes from a good place, a place of passion for the core design principles of this unique gem, the very things that make MO different from any other game out there, we should encourage Henrik to stick to those principles and ideas we read about on the first game's original website that sold most early adopters on it, don't water down and homogenize the game, it'll become another generic game no one cares about or remembers.
Mortal some 12 years later still holds such amazing potential because the core ideas that Henrik probably sketched out in a notebook so many years ago were great ideas! The problem seems to be taking those ideas, engineering them mechanically to make them function, and then handing them off in a state where the programmers can program them as designed. And I don't pretend to know the innerworkings of SV, but from the outside looking in overtime it seems like there's this missing piece to their team that takes those ideas and figures out how to engineer them in a deep and meaningful way. I appreciate all the work SV puts into this, I know they put in long hours, and I don't want to disparage that work, It just seems like something is missing that is keeping them from reaching that true potential this game can have.
I also think having so many attributes in the system is going to prove problematic with balance overtime, but it also feels like they're there because they couldn't think of any more unique clade specific things, which is understandable, the trees are of good size, but also unnecessary because attribute cap adjustments don't have to be a part of this system, originally they had a ritual system in mind for that. But what they have can be managed, as the tree is, but unlocking the gifts shouldn't be some chore you do and grind on some specific mob.
The other "tasks" Henrik talked about still don't sound engaging, there should be many many ways, and the more that fit with the lore of unlocking your true blood potential the better the system will be.
I think the core reason this is troubling is because it seems like it follows this long trend we've seen now over the years where the "new" systems that get added never have near the depth that the old ones have. All the old systems had this air of mystery about them. Going as far back as when Extraction was put in the original Beta, they had this great detailed system with a specific set of rules and varying outcomes, and they dumped it into the game and said "here, figure it out!", they didn't spell it out and say like "Calx in Grinder plus water= Calspar" or whatever, and that was an awesome experience working with others in game to see how the system worked. They didn't tell us how to make steel, or the ratio to use in refining, that added depth to the game that was truly a unique experience in Mortal Online that I have never found anywhere else. It's why despite not being thrilled with some of the direction of the game over the years, 12 years later I'm still engaged and interested and dying to be able to recreate some of those old experiences which no other game can hold a candle to in my opinion.
Same thing happened down the line with Fishing, Alchemy, and Cooking...each had their own set of issues we can all agree, but they weren't these bland, shallow list of chores you had that you knew you had to complete to get somewhere, and that's what the Clade Gift system as currently implemented feels like.
It's been mentioned many times now by many people comparing the system to some WoW themepark systems because that's how simple and basic, and uninspiring it is as implemented. It'll be this list of chores that everyone will feel compelled to do so they can finish their character, and we'll do it, many begrudgingly so, and most people don't find that enjoyable. I love the idea of Clade gifts, unique layers that tie in the lore with the race we're playing, I just strongly disagree with the system as implemented and I would encourage those that agree to let SV know why there's backlash here so they understand.
We're all fans of this game. But it doesn't do SV any favors to blindly accept poor additions to the game. The criticism comes across as toxic sometimes, I get that, but for most people that outcry comes from a good place, a place of passion for the core design principles of this unique gem, the very things that make MO different from any other game out there, we should encourage Henrik to stick to those principles and ideas we read about on the first game's original website that sold most early adopters on it, don't water down and homogenize the game, it'll become another generic game no one cares about or remembers.
Mortal some 12 years later still holds such amazing potential because the core ideas that Henrik probably sketched out in a notebook so many years ago were great ideas! The problem seems to be taking those ideas, engineering them mechanically to make them function, and then handing them off in a state where the programmers can program them as designed. And I don't pretend to know the innerworkings of SV, but from the outside looking in overtime it seems like there's this missing piece to their team that takes those ideas and figures out how to engineer them in a deep and meaningful way. I appreciate all the work SV puts into this, I know they put in long hours, and I don't want to disparage that work, It just seems like something is missing that is keeping them from reaching that true potential this game can have.