haha 9 years of doing minimal with prediction and 2 weeks of adding in 360 block into MO2 = 10 years total of constant prediction workings
logic XD you so troll mate
Combat/Overall feedback
- Thread starter Kevin
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logic XD you so troll mate
this is how i know u do not pvp as much as you should in a pvp game 360 BLOCKING makes blocking both EASIER and promotes TURTLE META since you cannot get AROUND BLOCKS and also is so DERPY to play since people can just LOOK AT YOURE SWING AND RUN with hholding block of that swing the dynamics is so dogshit stop being so BINARY oooh look 360 blocking is bad because of easiness or because 360 is bad, it cannot be any more reason than that! I DO NOT KNOW a single person except YOU who is ok with 360 block
Under mo1s development they have changed the prediction system a multitude of times, we have had periods of 360 blocking in mo1, we've had big periods of constant back hitting through blocks, we've had absolute horrible times. We started out with a single blocking direction like in mordhau and a limited blocking arc, to a bigger blocking arc, to "directional" that basically was 360 if you used left block and didnt require you to match attack direction. To limited arc again and most recently mo1 was sort of where we are at today, minus the 3rd swing direction.
So you have not read anything i've said?
So is 360 blocking the problem?
Is blocking in general the problem?
Is the current lack of depth in the combat system the problem?
WHICH - ONE - IS - IT?
yes prediction change in past but was not CONSTANT DEVELOPING like you SOUND with your argument 10+ YEAR and i read EVERYTHING you say EVERYTHING but you do not read WHAT I SAY mate 360 DEG BLOCK is PROBLEM current combat lack DEPTH because is combat ALPHA not BETA not RELEASE and if you think you should avoid FIXING 360 DEG BLOCK and rush EVERYTHING ELSE you are ABSOLUTELY out of your mind
But that is incorrect, it was constantly being worked on, much due to the same reason why the game failed AND had issues with it through its entire life. A very loud small group of people constantly shouting about it and having nothing constructive to say about it getting their way to have combat moving 1 step forward two steps back, over and over again while the rest of the game was being neglected.
So instead of offering suggestions on how to make combat better, we should just remove things?
Have you read my suggestion of what they can do first without having to move 2 steps back every time someone gets their panties in a twist?
This a combat alpha. They´ll add an blocking arc, we give feedback. Then we´ll see.
These oldschool fights between players are just ... noise.
These oldschool fights between players are just ... noise.
Even with a blocking arc, with nothing else done we'll either get turtling being "the" issue that is the next thing to complain about all the time (still) or facestabbing will be. Thats what im going to start referring swinging at someones back when they are on their end looking at you as. Facestab is an old Team fortress problem and is actually very similar.
Rather than wasting time going back to the mo1 issue of listening to people wanting to move back instead of adding things to test, can we add more variables to a 3-way combat system already? Are we seriously going back to MO1 phase 1 of just fidgeting around with blocking arcs while ignoring the reason why the blocking arc would be put in in the first place? Blocking being too easy, or in my opinion. Has no counter play, which requires combat depth. Test things forward, not backwards then sideways front and then back again.
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That's what I remember people complaining about. Even just fixing what isn't broken (which seemed to be a Star Vault specialty at times) is development. Development isn't just 'changes that people like'.
I'm a bit skeptical about kicks, not because it would be broken in any way, but because it would require a lot of other changes to actually make a difference.
Blocking would have to slow you down significantly, even slightly after the blocking action for you to even manage to hit someone with a kick. So might be something they have to implement when shields are implemented, if shields can hold blocks at cost of movement speed(while blocking) and stamina per hit absorbed(and maybe a slightly longer delay before you can attack after blocking, pls consider a delay). Shields could then have the strengths that maybe it doesn't need to match swing direction, obviously parry shouldn't be happening unless you time your block. I personally think equipment hits(hits to shield when you are not blocking) to shields should stay, but they should drain stam instead of dealing damage(bigger stam drain factor than blocking). or maybe a 90/10 split towards stamina and damage. Once you are out of stamina and you block or take a equipment hit. Maybe massively increase the damage the shield takes? Make the shield user immune to stamina damage for a while, as to keep them from being locked down and start taking health damage when normal blocking, but still having the option to parry if he has enough stam for the blocking action and matching direction of swing.
Maybe?
Yeap,shilds when you are not blocking should give you some protection from health damage costing you stamina lost.
The problem with blocking is that, in it's current state, it's entirely based reacting on timers. We have already concluded several times that, due to ping, whatever happens on your screen will not necessarily happen on theirs. So any mechanic that relies entirely on timers is flawed from the start and any attempt to further expand by adding additional timers will be futile due to aforemention issues with ping.
Timers and ping will make sure that blocking will either be too unreliable, by people either swinging through your blocks or baiting out your blocks (due to not being able to react/read properly due to ping) - or - dumbed down to the point we have now, with 360 blocking and ability to constantly refresh parry timer so no one is able to get a swing through.
I don't think blocking will ever be perfect, but I also don't think it's fine to settle for a placeholder system. Starvault seems confident in their new netcode and after playing the alpha I can say the combat is much smoother than MO1 ever were. So it's definitely time to try and overhaul blocking, preferably away from the system we have today, but the removal of 360 blocking is a step in the right direction.
Timers and ping will make sure that blocking will either be too unreliable, by people either swinging through your blocks or baiting out your blocks (due to not being able to react/read properly due to ping) - or - dumbed down to the point we have now, with 360 blocking and ability to constantly refresh parry timer so no one is able to get a swing through.
I don't think blocking will ever be perfect, but I also don't think it's fine to settle for a placeholder system. Starvault seems confident in their new netcode and after playing the alpha I can say the combat is much smoother than MO1 ever were. So it's definitely time to try and overhaul blocking, preferably away from the system we have today, but the removal of 360 blocking is a step in the right direction.
No, this is what ruined Gloria Victis. No stuns in the game please
Dunno, dismounting was a stun and everyone was fine with that.
He said nothing about any stuns though? If they add blocking delays as I have suggested in the past and kicking a blocking player makes them lose their block and put their block on delay, that would be a good way to go about it. But if there are other ways to get around blocking, we might not even need a kick in the first place.
Not sure about everyone, most mounted players hate it.
Dont worry this will all be fixed when Henrik introduces block arcs in the next patch
Yes, back to mo1 with everyone sprinting around facestabbing each other. Atleast we'll get 3 different variations of the block arcs and occasional return of 360 blocking, with nothing else other than fiddling with arcs for 10 years. FUN AND ENGAGING. Why make progress when they can commit the exact same mistakes as last time!
You seem awfully sure on having "blocking delays" to punish trigger-happy turtlers while conveniantly forgetting that both 360 blocking and constantly refreshing parry-timer is the only saving grace for said turtlers due to ping or desync.
Log into MO1 and try to time your parry (ie no spamming) against your opponents swing and I think you will find it quite hard to properly parry as your opponents swing ploughs right through on most occasions.
MO2 and 1 are not the same game, and MO2 is much better optimised in terms of handling desync between players to the point that blocking is much too easy even for players from NA and similar distance away from the server.
That said I don't think expanding further on timers for blocking is the way to go, due to aforementioned problem with ping and desync. If Starvault wants to continue down that path it's up to them, but I would rather we go a hybrid route with blocking arcs and active blocking (decreased damage closer to weapon/shield mesh you are) with a parry/counterhit if you time it properly.
I've already seen videos and personally experienced the main issues in mo1 that makes facestabbing a real issue there, in mo2.
In mo1 its pretty easy to get in a state where you are both looking at each others back. When in reality its just the prediction system doing its thing. This very thing happens a lot in mo 2 as well, seen and experienced it. I'm sure the changes to the netcode have been significant. But i'm calling it now. Once we get the arcs in, its just going to be mo1 chasing each others tail and tricking the prediction system. its not encouraging skill and its not fun and engaging gameplay. And it sure as hell is not helping the combat system get better or more evolved. As right now, its a 3-way combat system. Attack, parry, counter. The combat requires more depth, there is a reason why Mordhau parrying is not being whined about and called as turtling. The amount of times you ACTUALLY can get around someone that is actively fighting you and hit them in the back in either mordhau or any of the mortal online games is extremely small.
The main complaint I see other than turtling right now, is from NA players saying they are experiencing too short time to time their blocks. They have a lot of a harder time doing anticipated blocks than EU players do. If Seb feels that going through the exact same thing all over again is a good idea, then sure. Do it. But I really hope they actually have a plan and a vision for how they want combat to look, feel and work. Because right now its the same as Mo1, which is an uncompleted mess. To have one of the core pillars of your game being a uncompleted mess is a big problem.
A very basic and barely functioning combat system is going to have an impact on all the other aspects of the game, not just PvP. Its the basis on which a big part of material gathering relies on, dungeons and getting other items from npcs. PvP is the byproduct of PVE, not the other way around. If we have a PVE system that makes people not want to even get past the PVE part to get the gear for the PvP part of the game, you are going to have a problem. Especially if on top of that the Pvp is going to be lackluster, too.
In mo1 its pretty easy to get in a state where you are both looking at each others back. When in reality its just the prediction system doing its thing. This very thing happens a lot in mo 2 as well, seen and experienced it. I'm sure the changes to the netcode have been significant. But i'm calling it now. Once we get the arcs in, its just going to be mo1 chasing each others tail and tricking the prediction system. its not encouraging skill and its not fun and engaging gameplay. And it sure as hell is not helping the combat system get better or more evolved. As right now, its a 3-way combat system. Attack, parry, counter. The combat requires more depth, there is a reason why Mordhau parrying is not being whined about and called as turtling. The amount of times you ACTUALLY can get around someone that is actively fighting you and hit them in the back in either mordhau or any of the mortal online games is extremely small.
The main complaint I see other than turtling right now, is from NA players saying they are experiencing too short time to time their blocks. They have a lot of a harder time doing anticipated blocks than EU players do. If Seb feels that going through the exact same thing all over again is a good idea, then sure. Do it. But I really hope they actually have a plan and a vision for how they want combat to look, feel and work. Because right now its the same as Mo1, which is an uncompleted mess. To have one of the core pillars of your game being a uncompleted mess is a big problem.
A very basic and barely functioning combat system is going to have an impact on all the other aspects of the game, not just PvP. Its the basis on which a big part of material gathering relies on, dungeons and getting other items from npcs. PvP is the byproduct of PVE, not the other way around. If we have a PVE system that makes people not want to even get past the PVE part to get the gear for the PvP part of the game, you are going to have a problem. Especially if on top of that the Pvp is going to be lackluster, too.
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Facts.
PVP is 90% of the reason I play(ed) the game. It definitely feels like right now being defensive is THE strategy. Fights take forever, and you can generally get a swipe in or a parry in at anyone who comes at you with their weapon cocked back, forcing them to use more stamina and to potentially take a counter attack hit. If you're playing defensively and competently, the best case scenario for the aggressive player is a hit trade, and hopefully for them their aim and RNG is better.
I'm doubtful creating an actual block arc is going to change a lot of this in fights between competent players, but it will definitely reduce the time to kill when fighting really piss poor players who can barely move their character, who currently still take a good bit of time to kill without just trading hits with them. Will you win against them? Yeah sure, but it will be in a flurry of swipes rather than any kind of timing, strategy or cantor. You will also likely take about 25% of your health in frantic handle hits from your victim. That doesn't feel good, that doesn't feel like mastery, that feels idiotic.
If the intention is to make everyone feel like a dangerous threat to be approached even if they can't swing their sword or move their feet to save their life, then.. okay maybe they're onto something, but Idk how I feel about it.