beyblade combat meta.

[Gulith]

Everyone i hear giving his opinion about it, say it sucks, looks dumb, hurts brain logic etc.
People seems to go along with it, because it is not used much in group combat.
however i will say, if it's more efficient to land hits : it will be used in group combat when people will be comfortable enough with it.
post below your simple propositions that would solve the problem, even partially.
my turn: (and / or)
1) can't turn while you are jumping : no triple loots ... this is not skating.
2) when you spin, your feet on the ground, you get a huge knockdown balance debuff, so any blunt hit going over a certain threshold of damage would knock you down.
3) when you spin too much, you get dizzy ; erratic camera + puking for X seconds.
4) slashing right side while spinning clockwise makes you deal 0 damage, and vice versa.

 

[Icegoten]

What is this? Anyone have video of it?

 

[Gulith]

What is this? Anyone have video of it?

you got an example in this stream, from 6'40'00

(click on TWITCH bottom right to open the link)

 

[bbihah]

People wanted it this way.

 

[Icegoten]

Ok that is pretty funny looking to me. I guess the point of doing that is to obfuscate which direction you're attacking from which seems unfair if you charge an attack to swing to the right and then end up spinning around the opposite direction. It seems like a fighting style for curved swords where you can have your sword crafted for left or right swings.

I would say that being off balance while you're spinning would be a fair tradeoff so if someone hits you you can get knocked down or maybe staggered back.

 

[Gulith]

Ok that is pretty funny looking to me. I guess the point of doing that is to obfuscate which direction you're attacking from which seems unfair if you charge an attack to swing to the right and then end up spinning around the opposite direction. It seems like a fighting style for curved swords where you can have your sword crafted for left or right swings.

I would say that being off balance while you're spinning would be a fair tradeoff so if someone hits you you can get knocked down or maybe staggered back.

yes, and you can feint and change swing direction while spinning too, even more bullshit ... people are doing 720° too ...
i'm not against spins, but it should have rules, logical rules, like you cannot swing in the opposite way you are spinning ... going against centrifugal force just to confuse people is dumb ...

 

[Gulith]

People wanted it this way.

people will choose whatever gives them an advantage ... even cheating/exploits ...
that's what rules are for : to prevent bullshitness.
most people follows meta blindly ... so if it's the more efficient way to fight, then it will be everywhere ... while all the players with motion sickness will flee like they saw the devil ...

 

[Tzone]

You just want the sill ceiling lowered.

 

[bbihah]

You just want the spin ceiling lowered.

FTFY

 

[Gulith]

You just want the sill ceiling lowered.

adding counterplays is lowering the ceiling now?
i want more interesting melee mechanics than beyblade crap that will be macroed to death ...

 

[Aesorn]

To be fair, this game isn't balanced around 1v1's. Asking for balance changes based on 1v1's is probably not ideal. You say it's a matter of time before start using it in teamfights effectively when they get comfortable with it as if the games only been around for two weeks. Teamfights there's constant movement from allies and enemies, the second you do your little spin attack by the time you spin back around you might just hit a teammate, or the enemy is no longer there( he isn't only attacking you) or three stabs hit you in the chest as you were called to be focus fired. ect ect. I don't think spinning will ever be used very effectively in teamfights for these reasons. I do agree spinning is kinda lame but with how easy it is to parry.. 1v1's would be really dumb and take 10 years if you couldn't hide your attack animations. I could only agree with you if they also changed how parrying works.

 

[Piet]

Everyone i hear giving his opinion about it, say it sucks, looks dumb, hurts brain logic etc.
People seems to go along with it, because it is not used much in group combat.
however i will say, if it's more efficient to land hits : it will be used in group combat when people will be comfortable enough with it.
post below your simple propositions that would solve the problem, even partially.
my turn: (and / or)
1) can't turn while you are jumping : no triple loots ... this is not skating.
2) when you spin, your feet on the ground, you get a huge knockdown balance debuff, so any blunt hit going over a certain threshold of damage would knock you down.
3) when you spin too much, you get dizzy ; erratic camera + puking for X seconds.
4) slashing right side while spinning clockwise makes you deal 0 damage, and vice versa.

It doesn't happen in group fights which is what the game is based on. It is hella dumb and they do plan to change and add some special attacks that get through parry so you have to dodge but in the mean time that's their way to get around parry which is lame.

 

[Tzone]

unless it's a v weird position like they were in, why not just batter a dude while they are spinning haha. Seems like they would end up confusing themselves. The way equipment hits work, you could probably hit them then get in and absorb one of their hits as equip if they are committed to a spin.

Because they are bad and need a excuses for not doing well. Already counters to spins which is simply to move or parry correctly. Parry is so easy that there is no excuse to cry about someone spinning. Like when 1v1 is skill based they say the game shouldn't have 1v1 be balanced because the game isnt balanced around 1v1 for their logic.

Wow another player is beating me with skill instead of rock paper scissor balancing. OMG I might actually have to get good to win now.

If you are complaining about spins just parry it. Dont be upset that you actually have to develop better skills. Spinning is alot harder to hit a target then for the target to read and parry correctly.

 

[Gulith]

To be fair, this game isn't balanced around 1v1's. Asking for balance changes based on 1v1's is probably not ideal. You say it's a matter of time before start using it in teamfights effectively when they get comfortable with it as if the games only been around for two weeks. Teamfights there's constant movement from allies and enemies, the second you do your little spin attack by the time you spin back around you might just hit a teammate, or the enemy is no longer there( he isn't only attacking you) or three stabs hit you in the chest as you were called to be focus fired. ect ect. I don't think spinning will ever be used very effectively in teamfights for these reasons.

And when you have cornered someone almost out of stam, one hit away, who will moonwalking&parry you for 30 seconds -> teamfight beyblade becomes the right move.
no one is talking about chasing someone and spinhit his back ...
no one is talking about blind spins during confusion ...
And what happens when the teamfight is down to 1v1 or 1v2?
-> teamfight beyblade becomes the right move.

I do agree spinning is kinda lame but with how easy it is to parry.. 1v1's would be really dumb and take 10 years if you couldn't hide your attack animations. I could only agree with you if they also changed how parrying works.

i agree something needs to be done about parrying too.

It doesn't happen in group fights which is what the game is based on. It is hella dumb and they do plan to change and add some special attacks that get through parry so you have to dodge but in the mean time that's their way to get around parry which is lame.

people are just repeating over and over "this is not a teamfight tactic" : that's the only reason why it is not used in teamfights ... people just blindly follow the meta dictatorship.
used at the right moment in teamfights, and it's decisive, if you can finish off someone out of stam moonwalking&parrying instead of getting parried for 30 seconds, then you do it.
no one is talking about spamming spins in teamfights.
when spinmoves will become a second nature for people, then it will be used in any situation where it's pertinent : even in teamfights.

Because they are bad and need a excuses for not doing well. Already counters to spins which is simply to move or parry correctly. Parry is so easy that there is no excuse to cry about someone spinning. Like when 1v1 is skill based they say the game shouldn't have 1v1 be balanced because the game isnt balanced around 1v1 for their logic.
Wow another player is beating me with skill instead of rock paper scissor balancing. OMG I might actually have to get good to win now.
If you are complaining about spins just parry it. Dont be upset that you actually have to develop better skills. Spinning is alot harder to hit a target then for the target to read and parry correctly.

ah! i always forget your name ... i remember it's useless to talk sense into you ...

 

[Teknique]

Please implement these changes so that the game can finally die and I don’t have to play

 

[Nefnate]

I like the idea of implementing some form of drawback. I understand that spinning and other forms of swing manipulation are attached to the 'skill ceiling' and that a lot of PvP enthusiasts enjoy it. However, it is jarring to look at, is not realistic, and mechanically it is not entirely intentional that it is possible, to begin with.

So let's take a middle stance, then?

Keep the ability to spin and swing manipulate - it does increase the skill ceiling. However, implement a debuff called "Dizzy" or something similar. If your character spins too much within a certain time frame, have your stamina regeneration cut by a small amount for a short time (just a few seconds). If one continued to spin while under the debuff, have it progress to "Off Balance", losing the ability to parry (can still block, just not perfect block [parry]) for a few seconds. This could be looked into further, optionally, by making the in-game Balance skill impact the severity of any debuffs from spinning.

Before someone replies to this and tells me I'm lowering the skill ceiling... no, change your perspective. I am raising it.

By having to learn how you can be aggressive, HOW MUCH you can spin, and WHEN, understanding the flow of combat and the nuances of spacing and timing - I assert that this is harder and more skill based than testing who can spin their model the fastest without losing track of a target.

 

[Teknique]

I like the idea of implementing some form of drawback. I understand that spinning and other forms of swing manipulation are attached to the 'skill ceiling' and that a lot of PvP enthusiasts enjoy it. However, it is jarring to look at, is not realistic, and mechanically it is not entirely intentional that it is possible, to begin with.

So let's take a middle stance, then?

Keep the ability to spin and swing manipulate - it does increase the skill ceiling. However, implement a debuff called "Dizzy" or something similar. If your character spins too much within a certain time frame, have your stamina regeneration cut by a small amount for a short time (just a few seconds). If one continued to spin while under the debuff, have it progress to "Off Balance", losing the ability to parry (can still block, just not perfect block [parry]) for a few seconds. This could be looked into further, optionally, by making the in-game Balance skill impact the severity of any debuffs from spinning.

Before someone replies to this and tells me I'm lowering the skill ceiling... no, change your perspective. I am raising it.

By having to learn how you can be aggressive, HOW MUCH you can spin, and WHEN, understanding the flow of combat and the nuances of spacing and timing - I assert that this is harder and more skill based than testing who can spin their model the fastest without losing track of a target.

My biggest problem with this is it completely ignores all the existing drawbacks and penalties.
Existing turn cap, spinning being a function of your aim, high likelihood of being miss locked. Game sense requires to keep your orientation
My second biggest problem is people calling stuff op that they can’t do themselves.
If I call something op I at least can reproduce it

 

[Nefnate]

My biggest problem with this is it completely ignores all the existing drawbacks and penalties.
Existing turn cap, spinning being a function of your aim, high likelihood of being miss locked. Game sense requires to keep your orientation
My second biggest problem is people calling stuff op that they can’t do themselves.
If I call something op I at least can reproduce it

There are people who are able to do the spins with their hardware, and then, there are people messing with DPI and settings (even macros) in order to spin. There is no limitation on the upper edge. Not to mention, at a certain threshold of reflex and skill, spinning is so easy that it shouldn't even be defined skilled (within that threshold) - an example is two good duelists right now, ballerinas or beyblades (as per the title of the thread) that keep glancing off of each other.

There is also the fact that SV did not plan around spinning being a mechanic, so it's existence is a bit of a grey zone. So, why not address it? Add some structure. MAKE it an intended mechanic, and do so with parameters that enable skill rather than just the raw ability to spin a lot without being disorientated.

 

[Teknique]

The hardware argument is fallacious. Sure you can do a 360 with a macro but it’s no substitute for natural ability and you can’t do the swing morphs with macros.

playing at super high dpi would be more detrimental than helpful as well.

as for making it a mechanic it’s rather binary. Either you can spin to some degree like now and people will complain or you can’t move and people will complain.
The precision required to get that “right” would be astronimical and that would only be right for the people who cry about spins in games and not for the quiet majority

 

[Gulith]

My second biggest problem is people calling stuff op that they can’t do themselves.
If I call something op I at least can reproduce it

that's a poor strawman argument ... who told you i couldn't spin my mouse or write a script/macro?
I just look at the future in the case this stays as it is ... and it is sad to look at ...
just look at reaction people who want to learn the game have when they realize this is melee pvp! (yes a good part of pvp is small scale) link is above.
not to mention all the motion sickness people will just bail out immediately ...