Beta Patch Notes 0.1.0.93 Discussion

[Kelzyr]

I dont get the rant about hybrids, while actually footmage/dexmage are the ones being screwed with the new scaling. A well rounded tindremere hybrid will effectively hit as strong as a dexmage und just run a little slower while being able to wield weapons efficiently and wearing better armor. Sure the dexmage probably will have more mana and a little more magic defense but will this be enough of an argument to chose dex over hybrid?

The main reason to pick the mage over the hybrid would be for the extra mana, and active skill points so you could dabble in multiple magic schools when they are released. Most hybrids will be relegated to one magic school unless they invest very little into a few.

 

[strycio]

The main reason to pick the mage over the hybrid would be for the extra mana, and active skill points so you could dabble in multiple magic schools when they are released. Most hybrids will be relegated to one magic school unless they invest very little into a few.

yeah variety is a good point though, while i would like to see dexmages hit a little harder than hybrids, they should be between hybrid and fat mages scaling wise imo.

 

[Morwen]

I dont get the rant about hybrids, while actually footmage/dexmage are the ones being screwed with the new scaling. A well rounded tindremere hybrid will effectively hit as strong as a dexmage und just run a little slower while being able to wield weapons efficiently and wearing better armor. Sure the dexmage probably will have more mana and a little more magic defense but will this be enough of an argument to chose dex over hybrid?

Because people cannot stop mixing MO1 with MO2 and think 50 int needs to have sense.

50 dex is bullshit, 50 str is bullshit, 50 con is bullshit, the meta builds are 120 str, 120 dex, 120 int why 50 int should be viable at all?

And when defensive and aggresive stance get fixed and magic school are added the hybrids will get even more crippled so get ready for that and when high end materials get so common than even whole Meduli militia wears steel sets like bone tissue sets and dominators had 20 mino guards stabled hybrids will be so situational that I dont see why we have to worry so much about them tbh, still, human hybrid works so just reroll, again.

 

[Kaemik]

I duel during hours some days and I can really see the differente between dueling a thursar or a khurite khurite, I destroy armors and weapons just by dueling and I dont need maths for that, is noticable if you play the game mate, I actually play the game not sure about you.

(Not even counting my 2nd account)

A Kallard is not a Thursar, it's a human just like a Khurite. You frankly sound like a complete fool. Believe 1.7% matters if you want. But you're crazy. 7% more damage and 5% health is WAY more meaningful. An Ohgmir and a Veela are different playstyles/roles. A Khurite is a cheap knock-off Kallard for people who are bad at math. Popularity doesn't change that, as this topic amply prooves again and again A LOT more people like to talk about numbers they have no clue about than actually like to compile them into translatable figures that mean something.

 

[Kaemik]

I dont get the rant about hybrids, while actually footmage/dexmage are the ones being screwed with the new scaling. A well rounded tindremere hybrid will effectively hit as strong as a dexmage und just run a little slower while being able to wield weapons efficiently and wearing better armor. Sure the dexmage probably will have more mana and a little more magic defense but will this be enough of an argument to chose dex over hybrid?

A Hybrid now has to do one of the following.

A. Lose all of it's ability to deal damage / heal and is now purely a buffer/debuffer
B. Lose all of it's psyche and can now be two or three shot by any competent mage.
C. Actually take it's points from physical stats and become a garbage teir melee.

You reach the same level as 50 INT at roughly 92-93 INT now, so you've got to either take those 42-43 points from somewhere or cope with the fact your spells are now 61.54% as effective as they used to be.

Dex mages got stronger in all of the following ways:

1. Higher int is now meta, and damage was buffed for builds over 93 INT.
2. Spell hitboxes were increased in the patch.
3. Veela hybrids were one of the best mage-killer builds and are now garbage.
4. Any viable hybrid build left is likely taking their points from psyche making them weak to magic.

So you hit slightly harder, slightly easier, will see less counter builds and more builds that you counter, and the only thing you're likely to lose is a bit of your own psyche on builds that formerly were 50 int, but if you're a pure mage it's still going to be good.

Dex mages didn't get nerfed. They got slightly to moderately buffed.

 

[Morwen]

Dex mages got stronger in all of the following ways:

1. Higher int is now meta, and damage was buffed for builds over 93 INT.
2. Spell hitboxes were increased in the patch.
3. Veela hybrids were one of the best mage-killer builds and are now garbage.
4. Any viable hybrid build left is likely taking their points from psyche making them weak to magic.

Wtf I am reading.

Spell hitboxes was an actual bug fix not a buff lmao and also benefits hybrids.

Veela hybrids can ofc still kill mages otherwise test a 1 vs 1 or are you telling me with a veela hybrid you killed mages with a spell duel? omg and if that was the case and you could succed to outperform a mage with only magic as an hybrid that's another reason the nerf was needed.

And mage counters are the archers on foot and on mount and in the future the dominators with pets, veela fighters, psy fighters, etc so I dont see how veela hybrid nerf is a detrimental on pvp meta when mages have already many counters just by having to stay still when casting.

 

[Kaemik]

Bug fix or not, it's a buff.

Veela hybrids would be able to kill mages yes. But there will be a lot less of them running around because their build is now frankly crap. And the ones that are running around will be a bit less of a threat. Particularly if the dump psyche as that leaves them very vulnerable if they dive back line to kill mages. 2 or 3 spell will put an end to them, and that matters a great deal in group fights.

 

[strycio]

A Hybrid now has to do one of the following.

A. Lose all of it's ability to deal damage / heal and is now purely a buffer/debuffer
B. Lose all of it's psyche and can now be two or three shot by any competent mage.
C. Actually take it's points from physical stats and become a garbage teir melee.

You reach the same level as 50 INT at roughly 92-93 INT now, so you've got to either take those 42-43 points from somewhere or cope with the fact your spells are now 61.54% as effective as they used to be.

Dex mages got stronger in all of the following ways:

1. Higher int is now meta, and damage was buffed for builds over 93 INT.
2. Spell hitboxes were increased in the patch.
3. Veela hybrids were one of the best mage-killer builds and are now garbage.
4. Any viable hybrid build left is likely taking their points from psyche making them weak to magic.

So you hit slightly harder, slightly easier, will see less counter builds and more builds that you counter, and the only thing you're likely to lose is a bit of your own psyche on builds that formerly were 50 int, but if you're a pure mage it's still going to be good.

Dex mages didn't get nerfed. They got slightly to moderately buffed.

View attachment 1801

Well hybrid was a little too strong with old scaling. as i mentioned few posts ago i wished for an intersection of the old and new curve at ~75 int. Dedicated dexmages sit at 100 int or slightly above. Your table shows a juice increase of 2,5hp with the new curve, thats not what i call a buff. The new curve should have been a logarithmic one just with a slight bend so that min/maxing is still viable but not openly broken.

and well yeah most hybrids will now take a little more magic dmg do a little less magic dmg. Which is ok imo. But dex mages still be meh.

 

[StreamerLord]

SV doesn't really listen to players. They study data when Henrik sees there are roughly as many Alvarin's users compared to other races he thinks it's balanced. If it's so bad reroll and SV might take notice.

 

[Kaemik]

Oh I agree dex mages didn't become amazing. But they did get a buff. Small buff, but buffed. Same with fat mages actually, everything I described as a buff for dex mages helps them too.

Hybrids, they got full-on beat to crap with the nerf bat. I'm personally going to revise any build in our guild's doctrine that was intended to fight as a foot hybrid to either be wheelchair bound (Dump dex and all foot movement skills so it can be reallocated to make them more of a full mage) or removed from the doctrine entirely. They're just pure trash now.

Which is sad. I've always thought hybrids were a really cool builds and would have liked for them to remain a strong part of the meta. But in the current meta you should either commit to being a full mage, or commit to being a full fighter. Hybrids are the worst of both worlds now.

"Just have them corrupt"

Just give them a bow. Bow queues off strength making it an obviously good splash for all melee fighters. If the only thing you're going to do with magic is corrupt and purify, leave it to the real mages. Hybrid magic needed to be somewhat strong to justify taking it. 100 INT builds needed a buff but there were multiple ways to do that without taking a steaming dump on hybrids.

 

[Xunila]

Is there a bank size limit now with bags? With bags I came above more than 50 items in the bank, but I didn't try to get above 100 yet.

 

[Morwen]

Bug fix or not, it's a buff.

Veela hybrids would be able to kill mages yes. But there will be a lot less of them running around because their build is now frankly crap. And the ones that are running around will be a bit less of a threat. Particularly if the dump psyche as that leaves them very vulnerable if they dive back line to kill mages. 2 or 3 spell will put an end to them, and that matters a great deal in group fights.

Dude now is more balanced you like it or not, you cannot compare it to MO1 and MO1 balance was actually a joke, a game where oghmirs, tindremes, kallards etc never had a viable pvp build? this is aimed to balance all the races and builds with clear stats curve and new builds will appear and new kind of hybridis (not only magic and melee hybrids).

 

[Kaemik]

Dude now is more balanced you like it or not, you cannot compare it to MO1 and MO1 balance was actually a joke, a game where oghmirs, tindremes, kallards etc never had a viable pvp build? this is aimed to balance all the races and builds with clear stats curve and new builds will appear and new kind of hybridis (not only magic and melee hybrids).

Where did I compare MO1 to MO2? MO1 isn't even a good game IMO. I have less than 200 hours tops into that game.

I'm comparing MO2 to MO2. An MO2 where hybrids were viable, to the current one where no hybrid build is viable for now, and wheelchair ones may or may not be viable when mounted melee makes it in.

Like really. Do you see a group with hybrids having a meaningful advantage over one made up of full-fighters and full-mages at this point? I sure don't. I think the more specialized group will slaughter the hybrid group assuming equal skill and numbers.

 

[Morwen]

Where did I compare MO1 to MO2? MO1 isn't even a good game IMO. I have less than 200 hours tops into that game.

I'm comparing MO2 to MO2. An MO2 where hybrids were viable, to the current one where no hybrid build is viable for now, and wheelchair ones may or may not be viable when mounted melee makes it in.

Like really. Do you see a group with hybrids having a meaningful advantage over one made up of full-fighters and full-mages at this point? I sure don't.

Why dont you wait until all skills, weapons, armors, pets and magic schools are in the game and then you start talking about hybrid balance?

Is like if you say now MA is being nerfed because they cannot use long bows. Let's wait how it plays all together when all archery skills are in game, MC, breeding, etc

There is no sense now going so deep on hybrid nerf analyzis when half of pvp builds are still missing from the game.

 

[Olympeus]

I wasn’t able to play Wednesday but got a few hours in yesterday.

Great patch. Lots of additions, changes, fixes. And for a game that is in Beta testing, it’s all progress for continued development.

Regarding the INT change: A logistic growth curve (s-curve) would have been better, but the change to linear growth is an improvement in the meantime. Not sure why they didn’t implement an s-curve from the get go but perhaps this is a better way to gather data.

Regarding Hybrids: Seems a lot of the concern around INT scaling has do with the viability of certain Alvarin hybrids people played on MO1. Not sure what the hybrid scene looked like for non-human Clade in MO1, but it’s clear the vision for MO2 is Humans will have the highest number of viable hybrid builds. Other Clades will have fewer viable hybrid builds. So some MO1 hybrid builds for non-human Clades will go extinct. Overall, I like that the Clades have distinct strengths and weaknesses, and it leads to more build diversity and makes Clade choice meaningful beyond cosmetic. It sounds like there was less Clade diversity in MO1? Maybe someone can clarify.

Regarding DEX: I don’t know if DEX bonuses scales linearly currently or if it is on a curve. Regardless of current state, the end state could be a combination of a couple curves. From 0 to just below max DEX a slow exponential growth curve, but at max DEX start a new curve to give big bonuses before tapering off (a logarithmic growth curve). Visually it looks like a poorly drawn “S”. This might open up some DEX builds. I don’t know if a buff to top end DEX bonuses is needed or not, but that is how it could be implemented mathematically. if the Alvarin Clade is the DEX “favored” Clade then this would give them a set of min/max and hybrid build options. I’m sure SV already have plenty of thoughtful feedback from Beta testers plus their own ideas to implement. I haven’t formed an opinion on specific DEX related changes or balancing or builds.

 

[ElPerro]

This talk about hybrids being full mages + full warriors is nonsense. The builds that needed 50 int to be viable had tiny mana pools. 2 tlashes or 2 fulms and all your mana is gone. Is that a full mage? LOL

You also have about 20-40 less stam than warriors, lower hp, 10-20 less damage bonus and lower str to use bows. Is that a full warrior? ROFL

Also true hybrids dont even exist in MO2. Nobody is playing with less than 10kg armor to get shot for 50-60 by bows. What you mostly see ppl using are paladins, which also have way less mana regen than mages.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

This talk about hybrids being full mages + full warriors is nonsense. The builds that needed 50 int to be viable had tiny mana pools. 2 tlashes or 2 fulms and all your mana is gone. Is that a full mage? LOL

You also have about 20-40 less stam than warriors, lower hp, 10-20 less damage bonus and lower str to use bows. Is that a full warrior? ROFL

Also true hybrids dont even exist in MO2. Nobody is playing with less than 10kg armor to get shot for 50-60 by bows. What you mostly see ppl using are paladins, which also have way less mana regen than mages.

There is so much wrong information in this thread and new people with almost no hours in mo1 have the loudest voices here..

 

[Kaemik]

There is so much wrong information in this thread and new people with almost no hours in mo1 have the loudest voices here..

That doesn't even matter. MO1 is a total sidetrack discussion. The relevant comparison is last week vs. this week. Which the most informed discussions on that subject are based on the graphs I've made / am making. But also I was playing a hybrid last week which I would consider more relevant to this discussion than any MO1 experience.

 

[Silenko]

There is so much wrong information in this thread and new people with almost no hours in mo1 have the loudest voices here..

MO1 and MO2 are different games, also seems you are implying your opinion should count more than others because you played MO1 and others didn´t.

I don´t even know where to start lol

These are MO2 forums, in case you didn´t notice. I suggest you go back to MO1 forums if you want to discuss MO1, you know, maybe people there having so many hours played will be worth to discuss with.

 

[Morwen]

There is so much wrong information in this thread and new people with almost no hours in mo1 have the loudest voices here..

MO1 is a total different dead game with garbage pvp balance and if something MO2 has to learn about MO1 is to do better race balancing.