Beta Patch Notes 0.1.0.93 Discussion

[Silenko]

Are you autistic or something? Why is it so infinitely important to have exact linear scaling on int?

You can´t expect to use a Melee Weapon and do the same damage with 50 STR as a character that has invested points into 120 STR.
You can´t expect to run at the same Speed with 50 DEX as a character that has invested 120 into DEX.
You can´t expect to have the same HP Bonus with 50 CON as a character that has invested 120 into CON.
You can´t expect to have the same Magic Resistance and MP Bonus with 50 PSY as a character that has invested 120 into PSY.

Now, here comes the one you were expecting:

You can´t expect to have the same Magic Damage and Healing with 50 INT as a character that has invested 120 into INT.

You have 490 Stat Points, 1100 Action Points, and 1200 Profession Points if you can´t make a Viable Hybrid build with that amount... (Having more than enough points and without the need to take advantage of broken int scaling, as it was pre-patch)

 

[Komodor]

As has been stated several times now: There isn't enough attribute points to get enough intelligence for decent heals/dmg, aswell as keeping the attributes you have now.

As a tindremene you can max 4 attributes so you can still make hybrid with strong magic.
Also I run pure veela archer with 76 int and it's just enough for comfort healing.

 

[Moored]

You can´t expect to use a Melee Weapon and do the same damage with 50 STR as a character that has invested points into 120 STR.
You can´t expect to run at the same Speed with 50 DEX as a character that has invested 120 into DEX.
You can´t expect to have the same HP Bonus with 50 CON as a character that has invested 120 into CON.
You can´t expect to have the same Magic Resistance and MP Bonus with 50 PSY as a character that has invested 120 into PSY.

Now, here comes the one you were expecting:

You can´t expect to have the same Magic Damage and Healing with 50 INT as a character that has invested 120 into INT.

You have 490 Stat Points, 1100 Action Points, and 1200 Profession Points if you can´t make a Viable Hybrid build with that amount... (Having more than enough points and without the need to take advantage of broken int scaling, as it was pre-patch)

Ding ding ding! Well said

 

[MolagAmur]

Nevertheless it’s pretty stunning that sv would opt to harm 50-60 Intel builds and bulging sheevras and opt to leave only two viable builds dex and fat mage.

bulging sheevras from the very limited testing I’ve done hit like prepatch dex mages at the moment.

SV had a lot of rationed feedback to really understand what people were asking for in the int curve and that was a buff to 50-116 and leave everything else the same. They haven't done that unfortunately and they rightly have gotten criticism for it.

Exactly. Sadly the loud minority in the Discord think the changes now are good...even though they don't play hybrid "because they didn't like it". And another person "only does PvP when people attack them".

Reality is MO2 balance is gonna turn out just like MO1. We are crazy to think it'll be different this time with the same people in charge of balance.

Veelas were shit on(again) and Humans are the only good hybrids/paladin now.

 

[ElPerro]

Exactly. Sadly the loud minority in the Discord think the changes now are good...even though they don't play hybrid "because they didn't like it". And another person "only does PvP when people attack them".

Reality is MO2 balance is gonna turn out just like MO1. We are crazy to think it'll be different this time with the same people in charge of balance.

Veelas were shit on(again) and Humans are the only good hybrids/paladin now.

Apparently hybrids were crazy op and everyone was running one... but ofc they didnt play one cuz they didnt like it...

 

[Kelzyr]

You can´t expect to have the same Magic Damage and Healing with 50 INT as a character that has invested 120 into INT.

You're assuming everyone who doesn't like this change thinks this...that is a huge overgeneralization. I think most people would agree with this statement.

Most (MOST) people who are annoyed with this change see that the 'balance' they did was further nerf the Veela hybrid playstyle that so many MO1 veterans enjoy and hope would be viable. Not be the best, VIABLE.

Across the board Human hybrids/paladins were vastly more proficient in every way to the Veela hybrids other than the speed. Seeing as speed is fairly normalized, the speed increase of Veela's is no where near as attractive anymore. The final nail in the coffin was this int change. Veelas already sacrificed damage, health, mana, and stam all to be ever so slightly faster than their human counterparts. This change has now told Veelas to either sacrifice more damage, health, stam, or speed to be able to perform magic at the same level as before.

Sure maybe its time these Vets 'get with the times' but I think you can understand where the frustration comes from, especially when this could have been avoided by taking a bit harder of a look at the curve instead of just saying fuck it, just make it a linear curve and lower the bottom threshold (see Kaemik's chart)

Earlier in this thread I posted my opinion on how they could have done it better, which tldr: slight nerf to lower int casters, slight buff to higher (between 80-110) int casters. (see the comment for more details if you care)

 

[Grack]

Across the board Human hybrids/paladins were vastly more proficient in every way to the Veela hybrids other than the speed. Seeing as speed is fairly normalized, the speed increase of Veela's is no where near as attractive anymore. The final nail in the coffin was this int change. Veelas already sacrificed damage, health, mana, and stam all to be ever so slightly faster than their human counterparts. This change has now told Veelas to either sacrifice more damage, health, stam, or speed to be able to perform magic at the same level as before.

I really don't understand why people are claiming you can't get the points.... Drop size down to 166 and you can have 77 int as a Veela with max str, drop the str down to 70ish for swords and you have 96 int.

It seems people haven't even looked at sheevra, they get 93 int without having to change anything at 166cm, drop str and you have over 100 easy. If you want to maintain loads of speed drop weight.

This defines Alvs are skirmishers, they're still able to use utility magic, they still have enough to do damage, they're just not as powerful as human hybrids, but they're faster, and they have great clade gifs that give them a big advantage over anything besides the plains. The more I look at this the more I think people who play veela just want to be as good as humans but faster with better clade gifts for combat in anything but plains which hybrids never really did anyways

This is not suppose to be Veela online. MO1 had Thur/Khur and Alv online lets not go back to that pls. So far in MO2 they're doing a good job of small advantages and trade offs. People need to be thinking of things in context of group fights, scaling and clade gifts as well. Hybrids scale incredibly well to a point in group fights and around tricky terrain. (although id argue in large scale fights heavy fighters with mages works better and hybrids are best at mid number fights in good terrain)

That being said a gentle curve around 50-80/90 int could be a happier middle ground. Look at dex for example or the other attributes, it’s not a liner scale but as it is they're on the right track.

 

[Jhackman]

Well it seems like humans are finally better at something then the rats or orcs. Good for them.

 

[Archiel]

I really don't understand why people are claiming you can't get the points.... Drop size down to 166 and you can have 77 int as a Veela with max str, drop the str down to 70ish for swords and you have 96 int.

It seems people haven't even looked at sheevra, they get 93 int without having to change anything at 166cm, drop str and you have over 100 easy. If you want to maintain loads of speed drop weight.

This defines Alvs are skirmishers, they're still able to use utility magic, they still have enough to do damage, they're just not as powerful as human hybrids, but they're faster, and they have great clade gifs that give them a big advantage over anything besides the plains. The more I look at this the more I think people who play veela just want to be as good as humans but faster with better clade gifts for combat in anything but plains which hybrids never really did anyways

This is not suppose to be Veela online. MO1 had Thur/Khur and Alv online lets not go back to that pls. So far in MO2 they're doing a good job of small advantages and trade offs. People need to be thinking of things in context of group fights, scaling and clade gifts as well. Hybrids scale incredibly well to a point in group fights and around tricky terrain. (although id argue in large scale fights heavy fighters with mages works better and hybrids are best at mid number fights in good terrain)

That being said a gentle curve around 50-80/90 int could be a happier middle ground. Look at dex for example or the other attributes, it’s not a liner scale but as it is they're on the right track.

Seeing as you haven't played the class it's hard to take what you say seriously but I will counter anyway, veelas were sup par before the patch and are now the worst race for every class because the speed is negligible.
You say just drop some str/con/dex to get the extra int further gimp already lower performing aspects.
What some players are saying is just plain wrong, 50 int never meant same output as 120int.
Having an output cap at around 50 meant that some classes could utilise some spells even though they could only use it a couple times, for example an average veela hybrid didn't even have enough mana to kill someone with magic unless they gimp other stat's, so they were never operating as a "120int" mage for 50 int like some short sighted morons are continually spouting.

Hopefully you will go ahead with your test I look forward to the outcome.

 

[Kaemik]

What some players are saying is just plain wrong, 50 int never meant same output as 120int.

Correct. This falsity may have originated from something I was telling people. "Don't bother raising INT above 50 unless you'll be doing 120+"

That is because every single point from 50-100 was wasted. So if you say, did 110 INT you are investing 60 attribute points to get the benefit of 10 points. That hardly made sense to me. But from 101 on you were getting more than a 50 INT character.

 

[nazgo]

linear curve is the worst and laziest way to "balance" anything, it quite frankly encourages extremes. All attributes, heigh and weight should have diminishing returns after a set level, for example 100 or 110 on attributes. This way a hybrid would by no means be as good mage as a proper dex mage, but then again fat mages would be not so over the top with dmg. This also applies to str, going balls deep with str and height will result into some nasty dmg after SV releases MCs. Diminishing returns would also further balance out the races.


All these extreme builds should have their place and there definately should be a reward for getting that 130 in single attribute, but the "reward" needs to be within reason.

 

[Kaemik]

linear curve is the worst and laziest way to "balance" anything, it quite frankly encourages extremes. All attributes, heigh and weight should have diminishing returns after a set level, for example 100 or 110 on attributes. This way a hybrid would be no means be as good mage as a proper dex mage, but then again fat mages would be not so over the top with dmg. This also applies to str, going balls deep with str and height will result into some nasty dmg after SV releases MCs. Diminishing returns would also further balance out the races.


All these extreme builds should have their place and there definately should be a reward for getting that 130 in single attribute, but the "reward" needs to be within reason.

That would buff hybrid builds. But given hybrid builds just got hit with a massive nerfbat...

The thing I like most about diminishing returns is how it allows racial caps to be meaningful without being absolutely gamebreaking in terms of certain races/builds. Things like a Sarducaan fighter would no longer be such a braindead concept. Especially if they also worked to make stats more universally relevant to all builds. Like Int should always be best for a mage, but that doesn't mean it should offer nothing to a fighter like it currently does.

 

[Grack]

Seeing as you haven't played the class it's hard to take what you say seriously but I will counter anyway, veelas were sup par before the patch and are now the worst race for every class because the speed is negligible.
You say just drop some str/con/dex to get the extra int further gimp already lower performing aspects.
What some players are saying is just plain wrong, 50 int never meant same output as 120int.
Having an output cap at around 50 meant that some classes could utilise some spells even though they could only use it a couple times, for example an average veela hybrid didn't even have enough mana to kill someone with magic unless they gimp other stat's, so they were never operating as a "120int" mage for 50 int like some short sighted morons are continually spouting.

Hopefully you will go ahead with your test I look forward to the outcome.

Yeah I mean to achieve 79 int on a fighter based Veela you'd be min height and drop 4 points of strength, if mortal data can still be believed there is no difference between 70 str and 80 str other than 3% DB, same hp, same stam. This would make sense, if you look at Dex you see the biggest change around 70 then it starts to taper off again. Not sure exactly how Str curve works, would be interesting to see.

In any case I'm told 100 is the new 50 for magic meaning if your average heal was 23hp then it should be around 18.17 now (if int is 79), if greater is like say 45 then it should be around 36 ect. 5hp to 9hp heal difference and 4-5% damage bonus difference is a nerf, those points do add up absolutely and when you consider your mana (which you will have more of now) restrictions I can understand the argument for a curve around 50 and up to a degree being in place. Id like to see a graph displaing, I'm not 100% on those numbers, just going off the 100 is the new 50 for int comment i've been told.

If you went pre patch and put 80/90 into int can you still tell me you wouldn't have enough mana to kill a player ? Either way I think of most things in a group format, 1v1 needs to be considred but its how its going to scale in a group that is the bigger issue.

I'm reinstalling MO now, will take a few notes on my Thursar stam and speed and compare it to the stam and speed of a Veela and have a few fights to see how the speed feels. Imo if the speed is a factor that can be utilized I believe Alv clade needs to be kept in a very particular place. The potential for it to be the only viable class is very high if you empower its speed too much. When you think of the fight in litreally any other terrain then an open field if effective stam is competitive with other clades then their speed and clade gifs give them the upper hand as a hybrid or bow/fighter.

I don't have all the answers, and I absolutely need to try it out personally and look at some numbers before I'm willing to say "yeah its fine people are complaining because they want their fav calde to be to strong" I can understand why a curve might make more sense.

 

[Kaemik]

In any case I'm told 100 is the new 50 for magic meaning if your average heal was 23hp then it should be around 18.17 now (if int is 79), if greater is like say 45 then it should be around 36 ect. 5hp to 9hp heal difference and 4-5% damage bonus difference is a nerf, those points do add up absolutely and when you consider your mana (which you will have more of now) restrictions I can understand the argument for a curve around 50 and up to a degree being in place. Id like to see a graph displaing, I'm not 100% on those numbers, just going off the 100 is the new 50 for int comment i've been told.

 

[Grack]

View attachment 1798

Legend. Interesting, its actually a bit higher (based on these avg) then 80% of 100 skill. That does add up to like 2 extra heals to get a 190hp player from 0 - max. Like that and the DB are a sting forsure but it doesn't totally wreak the clade unless I'm missing something.

 

[Morwen]

Seeing as speed is fairly normalized, the speed increase of Veela's is no where near as attractive anymore.

That's not true, I have fought alvarins (not even the speedy veela build) on a daily basis on GK and they would outrun me being khurite khurite (one of the fastest footfighter builds) all the time.

It's true that if you are next to the alvarin it takes more time than on MO1 to get some space in between but if you have hands and know how to play nobody is going to hit you on melee.

I also would like to tweak the speed curve, fat mages should be even slower on foot and 120 DEX should be faster.

Apart from that to all the vet MO1 sweaters tryhards, the fact it was a popular build on MO1 doesnt make it a "must be" on MO2. Thursar Khurite build changed a lot from MO1 to MO2 and nobody is crying for that.

 

[Kebek]

There isn't enough attribute points to get enough intelligence for decent heals/dmg, aswell as keeping the attributes you have now. Something will have to give, and you will have to settle for either poor dmg/healing, poor stamina or speed, or poor mana/regen.

No shit, Sherlock. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Something will have to give.
I'm sorry you don't get to play your GOD class that hits full melee damage but also heals people in 2 casts.

 

[Morwen]

No shit, Sherlock. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Something will have to give.
I'm sorry you don't get to play your GOD class that hits full melee damage but also heals people in 2 casts.

People dont seem to understand what "hybrid" means and I dont even see why comparing it to MO1 is a thing when parries and everying is just so different now on MO2.

People already crying because they have to reroll on a beta with skills x1000 lmao, save your tears for the real drama when builds change during persistence with only 1 character slot per account.

 

[Archiel]

That's not true, I have fought alvarins (not even the speedy veela build) on a daily basis on GK and they would outrun me being khurite khurite (one of the fastest footfighter builds) all the time.

It's true that if you are next to the alvarin it takes more time than on MO1 to get some space in between but if you have hands and know how to play nobody is going to hit you on melee.

I also would like to tweak the speed curve, fat mages should be even slower on foot and 120 DEX should be faster.

Apart from that to all the vet MO1 sweaters tryhards, the fact it was a popular build on MO1 doesnt make it a "must be" on MO2. Thursar Khurite build changed a lot from MO1 to MO2 and nobody is crying for that.

Hybrid haven't been meta since 2012, Thursar are stronger than ever as a footfighters high damage/high stam/high HP/high def etc that's probabky why "nobody is crying".

 

[Archiel]

People dont seem to understand what "hybrid" means and I dont even see why comparing it to MO1 is a thing when parries and everying is just so different now on MO2.

People already crying because they have to reroll on a beta with skills x1000 lmao, save your tears for the real drama when builds change during persistence with only 1 character slot per account.

I doubt anyone cares about rerolling, it's more the fact that a certain race and play style is getting put in the ground by SV and their merry band of fat wizards.