Auto Ghost walk

[Backyard Employee]

First of all I hate traveling. This is why I don't travel - i just remain "semi-local", haven't crossed to the other side of Wolf Lake in weeks - you see, I adapt to the game instead of asking the game to adapt to me.

Second there is no "hours on end" of traveling unless you are running circles or leave you character on auto-walk for 2 hours and come back to see he got stuck in a tree 2 minutes after you left.

Third I completely understand that teleporting everywhere is great for "action". But there are a lot of people that prefer other types of gameplay than just "action". If a guild, for example, becomes aware that their enemy is getting overextended on a raid on the other side of the map and decides to start a logistics plan to lay siege on the enemy assets the fact they can all just go to the nearest bank and teleport home completely negates the logistical efforts of the first guild and whatever they had to do to acquire the information the guild was vulnerable in the first place. Ironically, as a consequence of the lack of penalty for overextension over a large map what you are likely to get is a mega zerg guild that controls the entire map and kill most "action" that you so much crave although I am sure you will find some other mechanic to blame it on when it happens.

EDIT a fourth to clarify: I am not in favor of everything that makes traveling slow - as I mentioned its not enjoyable for the sake of it. For example the fact that every horse is a turtle except desert horses right now is terrible. I am also not in favor of water slowing ghosts and I do believe that is a bug, not a feature. I would also not complain if ghost mode was a bit faster or give it a boost based on PSY (without nerfing the current baseline).



You sure that wasn't aimed at your mirror?

Listen, I get your more then likely the typical PvE guy who dabbled in PvP and therefore just assumed to know all there is to the game.

To get different resources now, you must travel. It might not be you doing it - but someone has to. Sure, you had to travel in MO1 but compared to now it's hilarious. The bigger picture is the game has now made something that was already taking enough time as is, and only multiplied it by six times.

Please do not try and take some weird stance on how you adapt, so others who don't are just failing at the game. You're not adapting - you just accept shitty game design, and that's not a good thing. It's having that type of thinking that has made games in general have such sloppy practices and bad development. Not traveling somewhere isn't adapting, that only strengthens my point that players will more than likely do less / not play.

Yes there is. I've road everywhere on the map, and it takes hours to get to places. Walking? Have fun spending your day walking the entire way.

No, this has nothing to do with getting action or more PvP. The massive world is just such a flawed designed with the few means of traveling it. You're saying stuff that you don't even know that would happen - you just assume it would, but let me beat you to the point. People in MO1 already did this, and we didn't have a TP function. There has been plenty of sieges I've seen and been apart of where we plan everything in advance and the sieges don't last very long - to the point those defending can't do anything.

I don't approve of your scenario as its worded to strengthen your opinion, but it has a lot of holes in it such as players just not being near their own stuff when its attacked. Are you telling me an entire guild is displaced when they are under siege? Also - wouldn't they all just teleport back anyway? That's what a smart guild would do - and you can do that in MO2. If you think their current gear is going to be worth more then their assets you're crazy.

I think horses being different is a good thing.

The ghost-water thing is probably a bug, yeah.

Yes, ghost mode should be much, much faster.

My point is we've seen other games do this and do fine with such systems. The whole idea that players are going to launch a siege when an enemy guild is out-and-about and win because of it - on the fact alone that they aren't at their base, is just absurd really. They'll just suicide and teleport back via home priest and defend there stuff, but who knows - Henrik stated no walls so it depends on the guild I suppose. Just have to see.

TL;DR

Game already wastes enough of your time, why is traveling both alive / dead slow with a bigger map.

 

[Ragemeister]

If they added teleport. Wouldnt that kinda ruin the whole point of spiritism, like being able to chase those spirits and banish people etc?

Not at all, spiritists are not running around in the open field when we can farm spirits at the graveyard, not only that but people still just hit the priest button as soon as they get within range, the odds of a spiritists running into a random ghost is very low, its intended to be used in large fights to keep the enemy from reviving mid fight.

 

[Kynyante]

Listen, I get your more then likely the typical PvE guy who dabbled in PvP and therefore just assumed to know all there is to the game.

To get different resources now, you must travel. It might not be you doing it - but someone has to. Sure, you had to travel in MO1 but compared to now it's hilarious. The bigger picture is the game has now made something that was already taking enough time as is, and only multiplied it by six times.

Please do not try and take some weird stance on how you adapt, so others who don't are just failing at the game. You're not adapting - you just accept shitty game design, and that's not a good thing. It's having that type of thinking that has made games in general have such sloppy practices and bad development. Not traveling somewhere isn't adapting, that only strengthens my point that players will more than likely do less / not play.

Yes there is. I've road everywhere on the map, and it takes hours to get to places. Walking? Have fun spending your day walking the entire way.

No, this has nothing to do with getting action or more PvP. The massive world is just such a flawed designed with the few means of traveling it. You're saying stuff that you don't even know that would happen - you just assume it would, but let me beat you to the point. People in MO1 already did this, and we didn't have a TP function. There has been plenty of sieges I've seen and been apart of where we plan everything in advance and the sieges don't last very long - to the point those defending can't do anything.

I don't approve of your scenario as its worded to strengthen your opinion, but it has a lot of holes in it such as players just not being near their own stuff when its attacked. Are you telling me an entire guild is displaced when they are under siege? Also - wouldn't they all just teleport back anyway? That's what a smart guild would do - and you can do that in MO2. If you think their current gear is going to be worth more then their assets you're crazy.

I think horses being different is a good thing.

The ghost-water thing is probably a bug, yeah.

Yes, ghost mode should be much, much faster.

My point is we've seen other games do this and do fine with such systems. The whole idea that players are going to launch a siege when an enemy guild is out-and-about and win because of it - on the fact alone that they aren't at their base, is just absurd really. They'll just suicide and teleport back via home priest and defend there stuff, but who knows - Henrik stated no walls so it depends on the guild I suppose. Just have to see.

TL;DR

Game already wastes enough of your time, why is traveling both alive / dead slow with a bigger map.

he also said ur not gonna be able to just lay down siege whenever u want he said its gonna be extememly difficult to siege someone so u would have to have a good reason to do it

 

[Tzone]

First of all I hate traveling. This is why I don't travel - i just remain "semi-local", haven't crossed to the other side of Wolf Lake in weeks - you see, I adapt to the game instead of asking the game to adapt to me.

Second there is no "hours on end" of traveling unless you are running circles or leave you character on auto-walk for 2 hours and come back to see he got stuck in a tree 2 minutes after you left.


You sure that wasn't aimed at your mirror?

IDK you version of adapting sounds more like learning to cope with a bad system.

It doesnt sounds like good game design if you need people to adapt/cope to mechanics that are bad. Its like saying "I know razorbacks fur crashes clients but I just adapted and so should you. Dont seek to fix the issue"

 

[Raknor]

IDK you version of adapting sounds more like learning to cope with a bad system.

It doesnt sounds like good game design if you need people to adapt/cope to mechanics that are bad. Its like saying "I know razorbacks fur crashes clients but I just adapted and so should you. Dont seek to fix the issue"

Well, I guess this mostly depends if you think that developing local economies and financially rewarding those that do travel is at the same level of game crashing bugs or not.

If we ever get all the continents and all the landmass that comes with them what is the playerbase going to ask? Magical unicorns that spawns us in whatever continent we want from wherever we are? Wait and see

 

[Ragemeister]

Well, I guess this mostly depends if you think that developing local economies and financially rewarding those that do travel is at the same level of game crashing bugs or not.

If we ever get all the continents and all the landmass that comes with them what is the playerbase going to ask? Magical unicorns that spawns us in whatever continent we want from wherever we are? Wait and see

People are still gonna have to travel either way if they want to transport materials and pets, travel that actually has purpose. There is absolutely no purpose to ghost travel other than making sure people cant instantly teleport from town to town.

Nobody here is suggesting instant teleport from town to town and on top of that nobody is suggesting teleporting to the next continent because its not worth talking about something that wont come out for years. You are just trying to take a simple suggest and turn it to an extreme

 

[Raknor]

Nobody here is suggesting instant teleport from town to town and on top of that nobody is suggesting teleporting to the next continent because its not worth talking about something that wont come out for years. You are just trying to take a simple suggest and turn it to an extreme

I am quoting this part first because then I misunderstood what was being asked, I was under the impression people were asking teleports between towns freely - even if in ghost mode without materials on them.

There is absolutely no purpose to ghost travel

I don't know how I feel about that, it is like you are saying the return trip is devoid of meaning which I am not sure it is. For example I have made the silly mistake of thinking Hyllspeia wouldn't be a shithole forever so I setup base there and since Jotuns are completely useless now I obviously have to get Desert Horses around Meduli which obviously means that when playing my tamer I set my home as Meduli, tame horse, transport home, suicide, respawn in Meduli and repeat because... why wouldn't I?

It kind of works, but it just doesn't "feel right" I guess. I don't think its how it should be is all I am saying (it also financially devalues the desert horse in Hylls by 50% but whatever...) . But apparently I misunderstood what people were asking so just ignore me.

other than making sure people cant instantly teleport from town to town.

Just to be sure because this part confuses me... are you asking to freely teleport in ghost mode from any place to any town or not?

 

[Backyard Employee]

he also said ur not gonna be able to just lay down siege whenever u want he said its gonna be extememly difficult to siege someone so u would have to have a good reason to do it

Who said this? Henrik?

I get Henrik is the CEO of Star Vault but you do realize Henrik says a lot of stuff that ends up being not true, completely made up, or is something with the perspective of a closed testing environment.

Henrik thinks the combat is good but it isn't, he also thinks a single server is good; and it isn't.

Players typically in games like this are a lot smarter then the developers when it comes to testing things.

It's like prison. The developers are the correctional officers. They work their nine to fives, go home to their families and forget about work. But we, the players - the prisoners, have all day and night, all week, all month, the entire year to think about ways to do things differently.

It's a funny metaphor but it's really true given it's a sandbox and SV essentially controls how much sand we have, but they have a hard time controlling what we do with the sand.

 

[Backyard Employee]

I am quoting this part first because then I misunderstood what was being asked, I was under the impression people were asking teleports between towns freely - even if in ghost mode without materials on them.



I don't know how I feel about that, it is like you are saying the return trip is devoid of meaning which I am not sure it is. For example I have made the silly mistake of thinking Hyllspeia wouldn't be a shithole forever so I setup base there and since Jotuns are completely useless now I obviously have to get Desert Horses around Meduli which obviously means that when playing my tamer I set my home as Meduli, tame horse, transport home, suicide, respawn in Meduli and repeat because... why wouldn't I?

It kind of works, but it just doesn't "feel right" I guess. I don't think its how it should be is all I am saying (it also financially devalues the desert horse in Hylls by 50% but whatever...) . But apparently I misunderstood what people were asking so just ignore me.



Just to be sure because this part confuses me... are you asking to freely teleport in ghost mode from any place to any town or not?

No one is really pushing out a solution, or saying 'this' or 'that' works; just simply that the way the game works in lengthening the travel time for no reason is going to have a negative effect on the game as a whole.

Let me put it in layman terms.. and mind you, this is a hypothetical scenario.

You're saying that you've adapted to the game by living in one spot, and not really traveling outside of that area. Ok, sure. That's cool.

What if people want to lets say live in Toxai, but then no one really lives in Toxai. So that means any kind of economy there is essentially not present. The player is now punished for living in Toxai because if they want to have any kind of interaction with other players, they are now going to have to waste even -more- time traveling out to places to either procure items they need, interact with players, etc. etc.

In MO1, this wasn't *that* much of an issue because the map wasn't massive.. but it wasn't small either. You still had to make your treks, but they weren't painfully long.

I guess in my scenario I'm trying to demonstrate that this will happen to some towns / settlements. I know this because it happened in MO1.

There will be some places that will be absolute ghost towns, and will be unused due to the fact players will abandon them for better locations. It's like forcing players to play where they don't want to just so they can actually PLAY the game with others and not experience it like a singleplayer experience.

Also, I don't think anyone was suggesting just teleporting to any / every town instantly.

It's just really flawed game design to make the game slower, and the map bigger. Because when the alpha came out - players moved WAY faster, but they got dramatically slowed down (so did the combat, rest in peace good combat with shitty swing-turn caps).

Not only are you punished with slow travel times while alive, but also whilst dead; which for a MAJORITY of the playerbase will be nothing other then a place they enter only to immediately want to get out of it as soon as possible. So I made a half joke at one point saying what if you traveled for 2 hours to go somewhere, get stuck between two rocks and die; and your basically shit out of luck because if you want your stuff back you have to respawn somewhere close which may be significantly far away - or you have to start over entirely because your items are in a stuck spot. (Which in a lot of cases, GM's will not assist you with. Happened a lot in MO1) So you're out 2 hours of time and your items, and if you NEED to make that trip; well - better start walking / riding again!

My idea about portals is more than likely misunderstood. These portals would be out in the 'wilds' of the map. They would be very far from any cities / towns, and they would take you to different portals that are also out in 'wild' parts of the map. So while it would speed up travel in some players cases, it wouldn't always be the most optimal path then just riding / walking to your destination.

It wouldn't break any economy, or ruin sieges or immersion in my opinion.

 

[Lord Hair Remover]

When my community was still playing, we traveled very long distances such as from Gaul'kor to Tindrem or Gaul'kor to Meduli. It took us usually about two to three hours to make these trips on horses.

We even had someone in our community he went from GK to Kranesh to chop wood and come back and they were gone for about five or so hours and only did at max an hour of cutting wood, this was also with a horse.

I've personally walked from Fabernum to Gaul'kor and it took me about three hours or maybe even more.

For people who haven't really traveled your comments show it. The game world is huge, but ultimately empty and dull.

I wouldn't have a problem with faster methods of travel like teleporting or portals. You'll still have to go to places to get resources and farm, its not as if this will eliminate players from the world though I'd find it highly improbable you will see anyone.

 

[Tzone]

When my community was still playing, we traveled very long distances such as from Gaul'kor to Tindrem or Gaul'kor to Meduli. It took us usually about two to three hours to make these trips on horses.

We even had someone in our community he went from GK to Kranesh to chop wood and come back and they were gone for about five or so hours and only did at max an hour of cutting wood, this was also with a horse.

I've personally walked from Fabernum to Gaul'kor and it took me about three hours or maybe even more.

For people who haven't really traveled your comments show it. The game world is huge, but ultimately empty and dull.

I wouldn't have a problem with faster methods of travel like teleporting or portals. You'll still have to go to places to get resources and farm, its not as if this will eliminate players from the world though I'd find it highly improbable you will see anyone.

Like I get that from these people too. Like I dont think they put much time into actually playing the game. Maybe even if they have hours in game they are prob just using it as a chat room chilling or RPing.

Lots of these people arent trying to experience the content of the game but dont want the people who are experiencing it to have a better time.

I think they just want to keep the superficial view of nave being a massive immersive world which it isnt immersive in truth but they want to think its a certain why for roleplay aspects.

 

[ThaBadMan]

To learn terrain as noob. You know most people need some forcing it to actually do it and reap the early rewards as a noob.

 

[Raknor]

No one is really pushing out a solution, or saying 'this' or 'that' works; just simply that the way the game works in lengthening the travel time for no reason is going to have a negative effect on the game as a whole.

Let me put it in layman terms.. and mind you, this is a hypothetical scenario.

You're saying that you've adapted to the game by living in one spot, and not really traveling outside of that area. Ok, sure. That's cool.

What if people want to lets say live in Toxai, but then no one really lives in Toxai. So that means any kind of economy there is essentially not present. The player is now punished for living in Toxai because if they want to have any kind of interaction with other players, they are now going to have to waste even -more- time traveling out to places to either procure items they need, interact with players, etc. etc.

In MO1, this wasn't *that* much of an issue because the map wasn't massive.. but it wasn't small either. You still had to make your treks, but they weren't painfully long.

I guess in my scenario I'm trying to demonstrate that this will happen to some towns / settlements. I know this because it happened in MO1.

There will be some places that will be absolute ghost towns, and will be unused due to the fact players will abandon them for better locations. It's like forcing players to play where they don't want to just so they can actually PLAY the game with others and not experience it like a singleplayer experience.

I can relate to your point about Toxai, it is probably the worst town in MO2 (likely to be overtaken by Hyllspeia once fishing comes out) and it was definitely the worst town to be based off in MO1. I just don't think it is a travel time issue "alone" and my solution for these things is more along the lines of buffing the towns and what they can provide rather than diminishing the amount of time to get there.

Again speaking of Hyllspeia in MO2 because is where I am most familiar making my case, Hyllspeia is pretty remote. I see the same 3-4 people in Hyllspeia everytime I login because there is literally nothing there but granum and pigs. However when Jotuns were the meta I saw a LOT more people around Hylls - the Jotuns made the travel time worth it for plenty of tamers and combat oriented guilds which craved the extra HP on their mount.

So what I am saying here is... Hylls and Toxai do suck, their positioning on the map is one of the reasons as is travel time to get anywhere from these respective towns but it is not the only one. And then because no one lives there no one complains and SV does nothing to improve the town while on the other extreme a town like Bakti which is probably the most OP town in the game south of Cave Camp (due precisely on how travel time to anything that ain't Tephra or Gabore is so short) SV bends over backwards to give them a press because so many people live there due to it being OP that they make a lot of noise (poor Kranesh guys... did they get their furnace yet?) so in the end SV itself tends to funnel more and more people to the same spots and neglect all others - on the upside at least people know where to do find GZ fighting.

TL;DR yes, travel time is a factor on how some towns are very poor choices to allow noobs to spawn but not the only factor. In addition reducing travel time in general will not necessarily solve this particular issue as even though it would be a positive for remote towns it would also boost other towns that are already sitting next to almost every resouce in the game.

Also, I don't think anyone was suggesting just teleporting to any / every town instantly.

Definitely misunderstood and jumped the gun. Sorry for the noise, as mentioned in one of the other posts I do support some measures of faster travel both in the world of the living and the dead (and honestly think they went overboard with 6x map - it may be fine for release but population will inevitably fall and the map will be too large in general, not just for travel time considerations).

When my community was still playing, we traveled very long distances such as from Gaul'kor to Tindrem or Gaul'kor to Meduli. It took us usually about two to three hours to make these trips on horses.

We even had someone in our community he went from GK to Kranesh to chop wood and come back and they were gone for about five or so hours and only did at max an hour of cutting wood, this was also with a horse.

I've personally walked from Fabernum to Gaul'kor and it took me about three hours or maybe even more.

For people who haven't really traveled your comments show it. The game world is huge, but ultimately empty and dull.

I wouldn't have a problem with faster methods of travel like teleporting or portals. You'll still have to go to places to get resources and farm, its not as if this will eliminate players from the world though I'd find it highly improbable you will see anyone.

I am not sure if this is aimed at me because I oppose teleportation but again, I live in Hyllspeia. I know what it takes to go from there to a source of Calx or Gabore travel time wise, and if you are familiar with that part of the map you know it is not a straight line to these locations. Is it enjoyable to take 2 hours to fill a horse with rock when less than half of that is the actual mining? Not particularly, not for me at least but that doesn't automatically equate to "well, this sucks, lets add teleportation" in my book

 

[Tzone]

I am not sure if this is aimed at me because I oppose teleportation but again, I live in Hyllspeia. I know what it takes to go from there to a source of Calx or Gabore travel time wise, and if you are familiar with that part of the map you know it is not a straight line to these locations. Is it enjoyable to take 2 hours to fill a horse with rock when less than half of that is the actual mining? Not particularly, not for me at least but that doesn't automatically equate to "well, this sucks, lets add teleportation" in my book

That has nothing to do with ghosting. This is about ghosting. You are transporting and gathering resources, there is a risk of running into people in your situation. With ours there is not risk so preventing people from teleporting has no meaning.

Peoples time is literally being used to not play the game but instead alt tab and move the mouse every now and again to get off a rock. Its not a game.

 

[Raknor]

That has nothing to do with ghosting. This is about ghosting. You are transporting and gathering resources, there is a risk of running into people in your situation. With ours there is not risk so preventing people from teleporting has no meaning.

Peoples time is literally being used to not play the game but instead alt tab and move the mouse every now and again to get off a rock. Its not a game.

I am only transporting any meaningful stuff on the way back. If I "ghost teleport" to Bakti from Hylls I basically covered half the map in seconds and I am as close to Calx and all the jungle materials in Hylls as in Bakti. I realize you can already do this with the "home teleport" but the fact that it limits you to just one town has some significance, I cant teleport today to Bakti to get a Campodon and tomorrow to Meduli to get a desert horse without actually traveling there. And it may seem unimportant but if you combine this with a service like the one provided by the Royal Bank of Tindrem where you can just transfer your gold from any town to any town for a small fee you don't even have to bring the mats yourself to setup a temporary farming base anywhere on the map.

(edit: in fact would love to hear @Angelo 's take on this or @Ibarruri as I suspect having this ability would devalue the service they provide)

Is it game breaking or not depends on your take, I am not even sure myself but its not as innocuous as you are putting it.

 

[lord_yoshi]

Why are people ghosting to random cities instead of teleporting to your home priest and riding to the city with cargo? Sounds like you're blaming the devs for not planning ahead yourself. Instantly teleporting to any city would benefit alliances too much.

 

[SirVirtuo]

Make teleportation cost souls.. like, 50 souls. Make people work for it! Make them earn their wanted instant travel I say! And they get teleported naked through the Ether to the other destination like if they went through a portal. But like I said, give it balance, give it a requirement. Screw it, make it 100 souls!

Bring thy tears unto me, so I might sustain myself !

Break the game... yes, break the game ;D. Instant travel for all the griefers, the war declarers, the horse murderers, and the zergs. Instant travel for your enemies, for the traders whose regional goods price differently. Make it cost 300 souls!!!

 

[Ragemeister]

Make teleportation cost souls.. like, 50 souls. Make people work for it! Make them earn their wanted instant travel I say! And they get teleported naked through the Ether to the other destination like if they went through a portal. But like I said, give it balance, give it a requirement. Screw it, make it 100 souls!

Bring thy tears unto me, so I might sustain myself !

Break the game... yes, break the game ;D. Instant travel for all the griefers, the war declarers, the horse murderers, and the zergs. Instant travel for your enemies, for the traders whose regional goods price differently. Make it cost 300 souls!!!

I'll repeat it again, I dont know how hard it is to read, nobody is asking for instant teleport.

Making the teleport scale based on current travel times will make absolutely 0 difference in the game aside from the fact that you can go afk for a few minutes instead of wasting irl time getting from town to town. Either way, its still easy to get from town to town as a ghost, one way is just an awful boring experience that nobody can honestly say they enjoy.

People are still going to travel just as much if not more on horseback because, in case you are unaware, you cannot transport items as a ghost. You still have to farm, get resources in these towns once you get there.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

I agree it would unintentionally help zergs, so to prevent that just add a large cool down to it like once per a week. Sometimes players make mistakes and want to change their location. Sometimes you get trapped in a shitty town like Hyllspellia as a noob

 

[Tzone]

I agree it would unintentionally help zergs, so to prevent that just add a large cool down to it like once per a week. Sometimes players make mistakes and want to change their location. Sometimes you get trapped in a shitty town like Hyllspellia as a noob

IDK Im ghosting every day that I play. Having to spend 1-2 hours every day just ghosting and maybe doing it twice is just a huge amount of time wasted.
Adding a cost to it might help like gold. But every zergs I sees brings gear, I dont really see it be that effective that zerg shows up naked.

Its really only conveintcy this adds.