Archery

[Kaemik]

I'd kind of like to see a falloff crosshair. One of the ones where there is a line for a flat shot at the top and then smaller lines for further range shots beneath. Getting a true arrow tip aim working a video game seems to be more of a challenge than it is IRL and they don't seem to be pulling it off incredibly well.

Getting an archery system to work with a falloff crosshair shouldn't be that hard. And you can stylize it a bit to look less modern.

If they can get a fully functional amazing arrow tip system in at a later date then cool. A falloff crosshair just seems like something they're going to have an easier time pulling off to get a nice smooth feeling archery system with falloff in right now.

 

[bbihah]

It worked good in mo1.

So similar to how mo1 handles bow aiming but more polished would be fine.

 

[Grasthard]

I don't agree with taking it away, but I think you should be given the option to have it or not. The only thing removing it will do is improve immersion. So why not let those who want that have it. /shrug

this.

 

[Kaemik]

It worked good in mo1.

So similar to how mo1 handles bow aiming but more polished would be fine.

I don't think aiming feels great in MO1 either but the one thing I am noticing is they have arrow trials just like archery did in Darkfall. I think this is REALLY important to how an archery system feels. As a real archer you get a feel for about where you need to aim for your arrow to hit the target where you want it to based on sitting at a range putting arrows into the same sheet of paper over and over and seeing how adjusting your aim changes the results.

Provided we don't want everyone to need to sit at in-game archery courses for hours getting a feel for how the bows works at different ranges, arrow trails give nice immediate feedback on if a shot was too low, too high, etc. You practically don't need an aiming system if you're good at making shot adjustments from arrow trails.

 

[bbihah]

I don't think aiming feels great in MO1 either but the one thing I am noticing is they have arrow trials just like archery did in Darkfall. I think this is REALLY important to how an archery system feels. As a real archer you get a feel for about where you need to aim for your arrow to hit the target where you want it to based on sitting at a range putting arrows into the same sheet of paper over and over and seeing how adjusting your aim changes the results.

Provided we don't want everyone to need to sit at in-game archery courses for hours getting a feel for how the bows works at different ranges, arrow trails give nice immediate feedback on if a shot was too low, too high, etc. You practically don't need an aiming system if you're good at making shot adjustments from arrow trails.

They could let us craft practice arrows that fly exactly like normal arrows, deal little to no damage but have a much more visible trail. Wouldn't take long using that to get a feel for the range of your bow.

Heck, you could bring some when you are trying to shoot extreme ranges at an enemy in a fortified position for your first few shots so you can get the range just right.

Aiming in mo1 does not feel great due to the weird sway, mostly cause it feels wonky and unpolished and it never got that polish it needed. But at least the system made sense, there was a reference point you used to aim, and it swayed around. Doesn't have to sway around randomly but there needs to be a reference point you can use for 0m zeroing. Its a good concept to use for a better system for mo2.

 

[TroGuard(TheBrown)]

they added the option to aim with cross air and made the trail more visible with that i think archery is at a better place than it used to be. but now the biggest difference between mo1 and mo2 that i can see is arrow travel time. mo1 used to have super fast arrows and mo2 arrows are sluggish in comparison.

*note that the crossair aiming just lines up the dot with where your aiming so if you move around and the aiming point sways to all hell your gonna have a rough time hitting your target anyway*

 

[Rorry]

The real problem with archery is how necessary it will be for everything. Pretty much have to spend points on it even to farm springboks.

 

[Kaemik]

they added the option to aim with cross air and made the trail more visible with that i think archery is at a better place than it used to be. but now the biggest difference between mo1 and mo2 that i can see is arrow travel time. mo1 used to have super fast arrows and mo2 arrows are sluggish in comparison.

*note that the crossair aiming just lines up the dot with where your aiming so if you move around and the aiming point sways to all hell your gonna have a rough time hitting your target anyway*

This would make sense. Archery feels really good when you're shooting at a stationary springbok or a target running in a straight line. It is VERY hard to hit anyone who is trying to play evasive. Slow travel time would explain that. I was having to put a rather significant lead on my target even at closer ranges in a recent fight where I was primarily using archery, and if they switched directions rapidly enough it made it insanely hard to hit even at those fairly close ranges.

 

[bbihah]

The real problem with archery is how necessary it will be for everything. Pretty much have to spend points on it even to farm springboks.

Everything? Nah, it'll be pretty much necessary for hunting animals of the prey category(animals that flee when spotting or being attacked by a player) and that's it. mounted fighters might get around this for some bigger prey animals if there will be ones.

You also do realize that even in the min max skill system of mo1, dropping just around 60 points in archery + your attribute bonus meant you were doing almost the same damage as a full focused archer character. So in mo2 where the skills have much better scaling at around 60 points. 60 points in archery and nothing else is not a steep cost for one of the easiest to shift points around builds in the game, that also happen to share attribute build.

60-100 skill points to as a fighter now have full access to ranged damage? Uh, yes please?
The only thing a fully archer specced character gets over a normal melee fighter is; possibly mounted archery, increased weakspot chance on head hits when on foot, smaller stam drain when on foot and marginally less wobble. For an extra what? 200 points? Come on.

Imagine expecting to hunt skittish animals that are faster than two legged steroid monsters, with a sword.

 

[Rorry]

Everything? Nah, it'll be pretty much necessary for hunting animals of the prey category(animals that flee when spotting or being attacked by a player) and that's it. mounted fighters might get around this for some bigger prey animals if there will be ones.

You also do realize that even in the min max skill system of mo1, dropping just around 60 points in archery + your attribute bonus meant you were doing almost the same damage as a full focused archer character. So in mo2 where the skills have much better scaling at around 60 points. 60 points in archery and nothing else is not a steep cost for one of the easiest to shift points around builds in the game, that also happen to share attribute build.

60-100 skill points to as a fighter now have full access to ranged damage? Uh, yes please?
The only thing a fully archer specced character gets over a normal melee fighter is; possibly mounted archery, increased weakspot chance on head hits when on foot, smaller stam drain when on foot and marginally less wobble. For an extra what? 200 points? Come on.

Imagine expecting to hunt skittish animals that are faster than two legged steroid monsters, with a sword.

Even worse than wasting points on it is how pvp is affected when many people have archery. When you try to fight bigger numbers or kite, everyone just chases with a bow, it is a way for low skilled players to win. Pretty annoying.
Also, springboks aren't worth spending points on. Another thing, when commonly farmed things with higher hp, I.E. razorbacks, run away at the speed of springboks, a few points in archery won't be enough, instead we will have all MA's riding around (which I know isn't a problem with archery) but is still bad.

 

[Kaemik]

Even worse than wasting points on it is how pvp is affected when many people have archery. When you try to fight bigger numbers or kite, everyone just chases with a bow, it is a way for low skilled players to win. Pretty annoying.
Also, springboks aren't worth spending points on. Another thing, when commonly farmed things with higher hp, I.E. razorbacks, run away at the speed of springboks, a few points in archery won't be enough, instead we will have all MA's riding around (which I know isn't a problem with archery) but is still bad.

It is INCREDIBLY hard to regularly land shots on someone you aren't practically in melee range with if their footwork is good. I can get a lot of shots into some players at medium/long range. But it's because their footwork is atrocious. If you find yourself getting countered by ranged a lot in MO2, you need to adapt. Perhaps trying playing it if you think it's so powerful. Learning to play it will very quickly teach you its limitations.

 

[Rorry]

It is INCREDIBLY hard to regularly land shots on someone you aren't practically in melee range with if their footwork is good. I can get a lot of shots into some players at medium/long range. But it's because their footwork is atrocious. If you find yourself getting countered by ranged a lot in MO2, you need to adapt. Perhaps trying playing it if you think it's so powerful. Learning to play it will very quickly teach you its limitations.

If you are trying to kite you only have the stam to run away. Even so, if you are 2v1 and the one guy just hits you a few times with un-blockable arrows from out of reach at zero risk while the other guy parries you it completely wipes away whatever level of skill you might have worked to develop in a cheap low skill way.

 

[Kaemik]

Dude. You do realize this is a game where if I'm out riding with 30 of my closest friends and I see 2 guys with guild tags I don't like I'm going to ride away with two sets of free gear right?

This is an Open World PvP MMO with mounts, archers, pets and magic. Not a fencing MOBA. I don't really care what my opponents consider cheap. I care who is dead.

You're greatly overstating the power of parry. But yeah 2 smart guys are going to beat 1 guy who can't adapt. Every time. As it should be.

 

[Rorry]

Bottom line, skill should matter. ALWAYS. But of course getting zerged down will happen.

I had that very thing happen to me in the beta stress test. I was whipping these guys 2v1 until 1 stepped back with a bow and the other just focused on parrying, didn't even bother to try to hit me, just parried. There was no level of adapting that would let me win in that situation, a mechanic trumped skill, even though he hit only 2 out of 10 arrows, they still won.

 

[Kaemik]

You're completely discounting the fact that:
A. Parrying does take skill no matter what people say. You can't parry 100% of attacks without practice.
B. You could have just run, or gone after the archer. Kiting doesn't kill people if you never get relief to get off shots.

Sometimes though in a game you're just going to come up against comps and strats you can't win against. For instance I understand B isn't an option if you're a Thursar and the archer is a Veela. Having a two players vs. one greatly expands the options you have to completely shut an opponent down. They could have stuck to melee and just facerolled their keyboard but they saw the advantage they had and leveraged it and in doing so put their opponent in a horrible position. I appreciate that is possible.

You seem to be arguing an entire playstyle should be removed from the game to make your 2v1s more balanced. That seems insane to me.

 

[Rorry]

I am arguing that skill should matter. Why develop skill when I could just buy a 1 gold bow and peg people with it instead?

Parrying in MO2 IS super easy, especially for Europeans, the only way to get past parries is to do stupid tricks to fool prediction.

 

[Kaemik]

Feel free to buy a one gold bow and peg people with it, if you think that's all it takes to auto-win fights. If nothing else, getting eaten alive by other archers will show you the error of your ways. But there is a reason archery focused characters are so rare right now, and it's not because everyone is so honorable they're just ignoring an EZ-Win button.

 

[bbihah]

Still nothing preventing foot fighters who have about 400 points they can put anywhere they want over the "essentials" of a min max fighter steroid mönster from sinking 60 points or so into archery and plinking away. Attributes of a non Veela archer is the same as a fighter, so what's holding you back? Unable to learn new things?

Or you just want everything to be the exact same bland boring melee Vs melee zerging? There is ranged disabled mordhau servers, go knock yourself out, this is a open world sandbox mmo. you'll find yourself out numbered or be up against someone equipped to deal with you better than you are to deal with them and feel helpless at one point or another. Skill comes into play to try and shift the scale regardless or getting away.

 

[Kaemik]

Foot fighter stats make great archer stats actually. Literally the only difference attribute wise is that size does nothing but more HP for an archer. So yeah, like you said, just a few points in archery and they can viably use a bow. Like they might not be as many points deep into it as a Veela skirmisher build but they're also going to have a heavier potential draw weight as a Thursar or Ohgmir and equivalent draw weight as a Kallard.

Yet right now, when every build can run a bow easily, you're barely seeing people use them anyway. So OP. Much nerf needed.

 

[Eldrath]

I like archery.

Bow crafting feels a bit lame though. Also fletchery.