About the Mage vs PvE

[AssassinOTL]

I know a ton of the community wants Mages to be viable in PvE and from what i'm hearing a lot of is they want "lightning" to be the PvE spell i think this is still a bad idea to implement, as it's a spell that required reagents that the new player will not have readily available to him on leveling up i think it should be an overall Buff to Magic damage, because in persistence no one wants a bad priest as a main class

 

[Raknor]

I have some thoughts about this...

1. I would be afraid of touching ecumenical at this stage
2. I think it needs to be a new magic school (staff?) that lets you either move while casting or use the stick on your hand when the range is closed to melee without requiring melee SPs (i.e. needs to be something that doesn't just make you a hybrid but also something that doesn't break PvP)
3. Seriously... can we fix the magic reflection not working on PvE ?

Main problem with mage PvE is that the range is not great to begin with and then you have to stand still to cast making the gap really easy to fill for the mobs so at most you start with a fulmination and then put in another nuke before they come in and we all know this ain't going to kill much more than a skeleton. Comparing this to an archer for example they not only have bigger range but they can move backwards while aiming so the amount of damage that goes in before the range is closed is much greater.

I have no hope that this changes before release though (its been a problem for 10 years already...) and feel sorry for all the people that will roll mages at release in the 1 char per account system to find out a week later they can't PvE without a pet. I am sure they will leave loving reviews on steam.

 

[Komodor]

Henrik said there will be melee fighting magic school in the future (and its not staff magic).

 

[AssassinOTL]

Henrik said there will be melee fighting magic school in the future (and its not staff magic).

this will be months after, if not years after Persistence, we need something for release, when it matters and you do no damage and need to skill up, rep farm, and get clade levels, this is not an excuse to put it off till after release, and i think most people can agree to that

 

[AssassinOTL]

use a wep for pve for now.

yeah it'll go great with a mage with a negative damage bonus, I saw Lirix try this and the Bandit out healed his damage, it's not a fix or a viable option

 

[AssassinOTL]

I have some thoughts about this...

1. I would be afraid of touching ecumenical at this stage
2. I think it needs to be a new magic school (staff?) that lets you either move while casting or use the stick on your hand when the range is closed to melee without requiring melee SPs (i.e. needs to be something that doesn't just make you a hybrid but also something that doesn't break PvP)
3. Seriously... can we fix the magic reflection not working on PvE ?

Main problem with mage PvE is that the range is not great to begin with and then you have to stand still to cast making the gap really easy to fill for the mobs so at most you start with a fulmination and then put in another nuke before they come in and we all know this ain't going to kill much more than a skeleton. Comparing this to an archer for example they not only have bigger range but they can move backwards while aiming so the amount of damage that goes in before the range is closed is much greater.

I have no hope that this changes before release though (its been a problem for 10 years already...) and feel sorry for all the people that will roll mages at release in the 1 char per account system to find out a week later they can't PvE without a pet. I am sure they will leave loving reviews on steam.

Yes this is a constant struggle to get Henrik specifically to see the problems with the class and to make some changes, i thought that with him playing a mage he'd get the feel that the gameplay loop is broken and needs to be reworked, but he hasnt been actively playing lately on stream but he does watch them actively, idk what they have in mind just yet but there is time to fix it so the dirty laundry is not out for all the critics and reviewers to look at and drop the overall rating of the game, because they will be a lot more brutal than we will be and it will be out there for the internet to see forever, MO1 didnt get too much exposure but this time around all eyes will be on them and they have a lot of work to do

 

[Jackdstripper]

Most mages will have to probably take at least archery and get to 80 strength in order to be able to solo farm with short bows.
Either that or be mage/tamer.

otherwise they will have to focus on their crafting profession to make money.

The issue is always the same. If you make it too easy to be a mage there wont be much point in being anything else, because mages are super cheap to gear up and dont lose anything on death. Also skill level is very low compared to melee. If its easy to pve with them(especially solo), then they will be the preferred class and this will make life hell for the few warriors around.

if the idea is that mages are the cheap/easy class in MO, then it makes sense that they are very limited in what they can do, especially solo.

 

[Konrad]

more damage.... you mad ? doesnt matter what armor im wearing you always deal full damage and can fuck people up in 4 hits i can be a bone tissue hobo or wear full ogh I still die in those hits and a mage right now can be ready to fight for about 20silver and you want more damage ? xDDD there are many ways in which a mage can make money. Just because you cant do everything perfectly doesnt mean you role is shit

 

[Raknor]

if the idea is that mages are the cheap/easy class in MO, then it makes sense that they are very limited in what they can do, especially solo.

I dunno, I think what most people expect when playing a brand new RPG is for a mage to be a glass cannon. The MO mage is just a glass when it comes to PvE.

And it isn't necessarily a cheap build either outside of ecumenicals - that scribing thing was expensive. Didn't make them cannons though, at best it gave them yet another pet to use which doesn't solve anything for people that want to be actual mages and not shamans / pet people

 

[Tuhtram]

What's frustrating is that most people are entirely fine with mages not being a cheap/easy class. Give us staffs, scepters, crystal balls, etc. Make us feel the same loss of dying and losing stuff... people just want to be able to PvE with magic without being tied to a pet.

It's a little disappointing that they stuck with Ecumenical for one of the release magic schools but didn't add a 'full mage' one. Necromancy at least let people move and cast, and I don't even really like necromancy from an aesthetic sense—but it's probably what I'd have to run until another 'move and cast' (or some other kind of playstyle that lets you survive a bit in PvE) school comes out.

Henrik said there will be melee fighting magic school in the future (and its not staff magic).

Henrik specified that staff magic is one where you can hit with the staff, so if he didn't mean staff magic that's kind of interesting. He might mean Animism though, which seems (at least partially) to be about transforming your body both with things like adding claws and also transforming into beast forms.

 

[AssassinOTL]

Most mages will have to probably take at least archery and get to 80 strength in order to be able to solo farm with short bows.
Either that or be mage/tamer.

otherwise they will have to focus on their crafting profession to make money.

The issue is always the same. If you make it too easy to be a mage there wont be much point in being anything else, because mages are super cheap to gear up and dont lose anything on death. Also skill level is very low compared to melee. If its easy to pve with them(especially solo), then they will be the preferred class and this will make life hell for the few warriors around.

if the idea is that mages are the cheap/easy class in MO, then it makes sense that they are very limited in what they can do, especially solo.

bad outlook and wrong in many ways, but yeah what's bad for warriors is good for mages this is so based i dont know how to answer it

 

[AssassinOTL]

more damage.... you mad ? doesnt matter what armor im wearing you always deal full damage and can fuck people up in 4 hits i can be a bone tissue hobo or wear full ogh I still die in those hits and a mage right now can be ready to fight for about 20silver and you want more damage ? xDDD there are many ways in which a mage can make money. Just because you cant do everything perfectly doesnt mean you role is shit

Wrong and based.... Does everyone on this forum just regurgitate the same wrong facts or does anyone have an original and real idea? mages are running around in armor that's hidden behind a boss fight, and regs cost more than that.... next?

 

[AssassinOTL]

I do most pve w/ flake and 9% dmg bonus. It's not a fix, but it is a viable option. Would also think more about farming mats like animals, or getting archery as said. I don't think damage is the problem w/ magi, it's just the way the game works... magic doesn't translate well to pve. If you could dodge, like if mage blocks were dodges, mage could prolly pve. The problem, at least imo, is that you can't properly kite when magi should be the best at kiting.

Edit: In MO1, you could kite and if you had a little more zap power, it would be a fix, but the way mobs come at you in MO2 it's like... hehhh??

Still, nothing wrong with doing a lil Lina Inverse when necessary.

Edit2: yo if they added some transformative magic tho... that'd be interesting. Fist weps! Still doesn't change your run of the mill mage being trash at pve tho. I took very little magic on my tamer in MO1 but would just use monsters to fight each other thru taming heh. gggggg. Throw some molvas at something and it's over. So yes, it's sad that a full tamer can use pets and output more dmg/outperform a full spec mage. But I still think that speccing a wep light hybrid might be a better answer for now.

Edit3, superbaw, what about enchantments to put on weps so that you can do dmg without having to have dmg bonus or str, would just be elemental. ADD A WHOLE NEW WRINKLE. Would have to be low base because true damage is always OP. But I mean if you could hit someone for 20s-30s in pve that should be enough, right?

Now here's a good point, magic is trash at kiting when it should be the Best with AOE and CC with good if not great range, but it's not and here is the refute to the FFs that like to say mages can kite well and do damage, it's just not possible in game

the thing with Picking up a weapon is that's not what the mage class is designed for, and that stops being a mage, and goes into Hybrid territory, the problem with the current meta is just that, instead of having fully fleshed out classes the community and the Devs facilitate using two builds in one so now we have Tribrids running around everywhere and breaking the balance of the game, and this is a critical problem with the game that will be it's downfall at launch.

now the the Magic damage on a weapon is a very good idea that i think will work well With the Staff Magic class but that's not something we'll see in a year or two at the pace we're going at right now and no 20-30 would not be enough when on the flip side the FFs and Hybrids can dish out 5x that damage or more and even more on Mounted if you do that route there needs to be some focus on this but they are tackling Endgame stuff that will need plenty of polish and lots of developing and the core of the game, which is gameplay loop is broken

 

[Teknique]

There are a lot of ways to fix it,

add a root spell that only works on AI

increase the damage done by spells to AI even more

add ethereal swords that glow red specifically

add a spell that passively increases movement speed when hit by an AI

add a polymorph spell

add a spell that increases carry weight

assuming coding wasn't an issue I could fix mages for PVE overnight.

 

[Teknique]

Maybe a slow spell for AI opposed to root. These are good ideas. They need more degen type spells. Pve only skills are also an option. I assume nobody likes that, but if it fixes mages haha imo. AI magi are powerful cuz they can throw like 3 spells at once it seems. Or what about a spell... there was a spell in Guild Wars 1 called Mark of Pain and every time you hit someone it would do damage to them and (possibly?) the people around them. That's another way, put some mark on them and then poke them with whatever and it will cause them damage.

I was gonna add that too

"death bonds"

damage is also dealt to adjacent targets

 

[Belegar]

add a spell that increases carry weight

How would that help?



I really like the idea of a "Mark of Pain/Death Bonds" spell.

But just be careful, any buffs to Mages will make the Foot Fighters go salty. Heaven forbid the Mages be a viable build, only Foot Fighters must be allowed to be good.

 

[Tzone]

How would that help?



I really like the idea of a "Mark of Pain/Death Bonds" spell.

But just be careful, any buffs to Mages will make the Foot Fighters go salty. Heaven forbid the Mages be a viable build, only Foot Fighters must be allowed to be good.

One of the worse thing about mages is that I can only carry about 3 to 5 bandit heads. A spell that increased weight would be very nice for long term grinding.

Mages are OP in PvP, high damage uncounterable damage with heals. Jump on a rock use terrain you can win in 1v1s. In anything that has multiple players you just dunk on kids as a mage. So easy. Its so strong and this is the preist school of magic and the most basic. Its only going to get more OP.

 

[Belegar]

One of the worse thing about mages is that I can only carry about 3 to 5 bandit heads. A spell that increased weight would be very nice for long term grinding.

Mages are OP in PvP, high damage uncounterable damage with heals. Jump on a rock use terrain you can win in 1v1s. In anything that has multiple players you just dunk on kids as a mage. So easy. Its so strong and this is the preist school of magic and the most basic. Its only going to get more OP.

But you should have a pet with bags when you are PVE farming. At the very least a horse.

You are talkng about Dex Mages in a PVP fight, they are good, I agree, Fat Mages can't do that. But if they are really so OP, why do the Foot Fighters go for other Foot Fighters in a fight and not focus on Mages? Almost all the PVP fights I see on Youtube/Twitch the Foot Soldiers get targeted first then the mages are cleared after. (Sorry, I know this is not the Topic, but I just needed to ask this )

 

[Najwalaylah]

One of the worse thing about mages is that I can only carry about 3 to 5 bandit heads. A spell that increased weight would be very nice for long term grinding.

How wyould you like to conjure a bag that holds a few things that aren't (for instance) boulders, making them have no weight. can only be used by you, and disappears when you log out?
#brainstormideaonly