Would accepting defeat be the better choice right now for the game long term?

[Rogu3Fiv3]

 

[Rogu3Fiv3]

people hate me whatever. But I agree with Pockets whole heartedly on this. This looks like a repeat. And I know how that book ends already.

 

[Tzone]

people hate me whatever. But I agree with Pockets whole heartedly on this. This looks like a repeat. And I know how that book ends already.

the last year Ive been here has just been several repeats over and over. Smaller in degree but they keep saying sorry we are changing and fixing things but never do

 

[Favonius Cornelius]

It's the same as it was in MO1: the loudest complainers are the ones who want to gank newbs without limits, and yet they complain at the same time about the population of the game without having any regard for what it takes to swell populations in the first place. They live in a bubble of tedious self greed.

Mortal Online isn't a First Person Swinger game, its an MMORPG. Deal with it.

 

[SeaShadow]

So, the game is in an interesting state. I choose to say interesting because i know SV has a new policy where you have to choose your words carefully.


So this thread is mainly pointed at SV and staff. Hopefully Robmo decides to show this to the rest of the team so they can have an internal meeting, because lets be real.
I'm not trying to rant and say that SV sucks and their staff is bad, but the decision making so far made by SV is often to little to late and at this point it feels like they are putting more and more band-aid on a wound that has already bleed through and the person they tried to rescue has almost lost all their blood and is just about dead.

So my suggestion for SV and it's board( that i dont even know if they are doing anything actively ) is to accept and confess to themselfs and the community, investors that this didn't go according to plan, a written letter by CEO and the Board apologizing to community and investors and confessing that they did wrong and what changes that is made behind the scenes to the company structure and development team, so this wont happen again would greatly improve relationship between SV and whats left of the community and investors.

Even though changes has been made, it's not enough and far from enough to be frankly for what you expect from a publicly traded company and rather big company Star Vault has become .
Mr CEO himself needs to understand that they are not tinkering in a garage anymore. SV has to start taking responsibility for their actions and start planning things way better than they have done now, start having plan B's and take their time with their products.

If there is not enough money to make a big mmo as this, take resonable decision and make a smaller game to aquire funds to expand your team and hire staff to make it work better in the future.

The above is acutally what i believe would be the best thing to do now aswell.
Mo2 should be put back in beta again and put on life support and SV should make another game to aquire the funds to get this baby where it deserves to be in the future.
Because lets be honest again, either SV plan will work( which previous plans has not done) and they will be able to start subs before the year has ended, or the money is up and they have to either start begging for more money from investors or fire people from the team they have built up now.

A better gamble would honestly be to put majority of the devs on another title, perferebly mainstream mobile game to get funds to actually have a better chance to make mo2 to the game it deserves to be in the future.


So what does the community think?
Would be fun to hear your thoughts.

If I was Henrik the last thing I'd do is apologize after reading this.

 

[Tzone]

If I was Henrik the last thing I'd do is apologize after reading this.

so you are calling henrik a narcissist?

 

[Tzone]

It's the same as it was in MO1: the loudest complainers are the ones who want to gank newbs without limits, and yet they complain at the same time about the population of the game without having any regard for what it takes to swell populations in the first place. They live in a bubble of tedious self greed.

Mortal Online isn't a First Person Swinger game, its an MMORPG. Deal with it.

you say this with the game current population. Im not ganking newbs Im no where near the graveyards or towns. Farlig is bakti blue bob right here complaining, along with pockets. Yeah we are all newb gankers like omerta and cartel.

Don't see omerta or cartel in here complaining the loudest.

I see the playerbase. You talk about majority and minority but I cant see to find the majority of this games community being positive about the game anymore. Love the idea hate the execution, dislike SV choices, is the common mentality the community has.

Only people still whitenighting SV are newbs who love the idea but dont have experience, paid shills, and out of touch people who have not been playing the game.


Mistake after mistake, and people still defending Henrik. Just mind boggling. If you really cared about the game then you would be holding SV accountable so the game doesnt die. Its not greifers killing off the population, its the game first and for most killing off its players.

 

[SeaShadow]

The problem is it's a vague and toxic shit post with no proof whatsoever.

If you are saying you send a video of a gold dupe to SV and they didn't fix it then I'd quit the game. If you don't have proof then for all you know it's already fixed.

Otherwise it just comes across as bored venting to the point of asking you where on the doll you were hurt.

 

[Farligbonde]

The problem is it's a vague and toxic shit post with no proof whatsoever.

If you are saying you send a video of a gold dupe to SV and they didn't fix it then I'd quit the game. If you don't have proof then for all you know it's already fixed.

Otherwise it just comes across as bored venting to the point of asking you where on the doll you were hurt.

What is a vauge shitpost? And what proof dosent exist.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

The game has its issues, no one is denying that. Does the game need more work? Of course it does. But to reassign and shuffle the team around to work on a bunch of smaller money-making mainstream games to rake in the money is the last thing SV should do.

Past development studios that did this only succeeded in killing off their project or ended up making something vastly inferior to what the dev's vision intended. Look up any dev team that did it, and see what happened to their projects in the end.

SV is in the process of changing their development trajectory in response to feedback, and that is a good thing. If they still cannot turn the project around after one full year of the game's release, then we can have a conversation about that. Right now, we are still a little over half a year before its first anniversary.

If we truly want to support the project financially to help it reach a state that we will be happy with, then perhaps we are in the best position to do just that. Instead of asking what the project and the team can do for us, ask what we can do for the project and the team.

 

[SeaShadow]

What is a vauge shitpost? And what proof dosent exist.

Your post I'm afraid.

The claims of game breaking dupes lack proof. They come across as self-aggrandizing at the expense of any shred of people's morale for SV or being able to be excited for the future of the game. I don't think people realize how they look making such claims without evidence like a video. The rest is just talk.

 

[Farligbonde]

Your post I'm afraid.

The claims of game breaking dupes lack proof. They come across as self-aggrandizing at the expense of any shred of people's morale for SV or being able to be excited for the future of the game. I don't think people realize how they look making such claims without evidence like a video. The rest is just talk.

If you read my posts again i have not even talked about dupes. So your post just lost all credibility.

 

[Farligbonde]

The game has its issues, no one is denying that. Does the game need more work? Of course it does. But to reassign and shuffle the team around to work on a bunch of smaller money-making mainstream games to rake in the money is the last thing SV should do.

Past development studios that did this only succeeded in killing off their project or ended up making something vastly inferior to what the dev's vision intended. Look up any dev team that did it, and see what happened to their projects in the end.

SV is in the process of changing their development trajectory in response to feedback, and that is a good thing. If they still cannot turn the project around after one full year of the game's release, then we can have a conversation about that. Right now, we are still a little over half a year before its first anniversary.

If we truly want to support the project financially to help it reach a state that we will be happy with, then perhaps we are in the best position to do just that. Instead of asking what the project and the team can do for us, ask what we can do for the project and the team.

Why do you think that shuffle the team around is a bad idea?

Bigger chance of keeping the company afloat than trying to make mo2 work within the next 6 months. The history of SV is that they have never gotten MO to work.
The reason that mo1 survived and SV aswell is pure luck and even Henrik himself has said that they were very close of shutting down several times.

Edit: Also the current vision is vastly inferior, it will not work the way it is intended, trying to accomplish this as we have seen only causes the game to suffer. Henrik's vision and stubborness will be the nail in the coffin as we have seen 100 times before. It is frankly time for Henrik and SV to listen to the "haters" and accept what they are capable of doing and not doing.

 

[Emdash]

SV doesn't read these forums, sorry to destroy your hopes and dreams.

Henrik has never cared what anyone thinks. Not you, not me, not anyone that played this game. He just does what he likes.you have the choice to stay and play his game, or leave. These forums are just for nubes to find information and for vets to bitch out other vets.

He had to pretend before!

But yea, again, let me post it. We are paying to play OUR VISION. Henrik and his team of mad scientists are empowering us, just like it goes w/ all indie games. If Henrik doesn't know that by now, no wonder they're failing. THIS IS OUR GAME. WE SUPPORT THE GAME. Yest I almost bought a 3rd acct to troll around (cuz it was 24,) and I didn't wanna reroll. But the sale ended and it's like hueee. No sub in sight. Nah, don't give up on the game, but there is a lot more leeway to make drastic changes now, I think, and that's another thing they are afraid of, majorly rocking the boat. People are gonna bitch when you rock the boat, but it's about where you settle.

 

[Farligbonde]

I remember Darkfall where devs changed to make a new game without making public they were doing so.
Darkfall was discontinued and Darkfall Unholy Wars launched a far inferior game and was discontinued within 3 years along with the bankruptcy of Aventurine despite the massive funding they had received from various EU grants and Greek government departments as well as sales of the original game.

SV must stand or fall on the success or failure of MO2 and put all their efforts into making the best game they possibly can imo.

Get caught up on the Darkfall spinoffs as ex-Aventurine devs explain what happened to the original (and throw shade) | Massively Overpowered

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Yeah but its a big difference making a game on a different platform and different genre, than a game that is basically the same.. the comparison you are making is basically MO1 and MO2.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

Why do you think that shuffle the team around is a bad idea?

Bigger chance of keeping the company afloat than trying to make mo2 work within the next 6 months. The history of SV is that they have never gotten MO to work.
The reason that mo1 survived and SV aswell is pure luck and even Henrik himself has said that they were very close of shutting down several times.

Edit: Also the current vision is vastly inferior, it will not work the way it is intended, trying to accomplish this as we have seen only causes the game to suffer. Henrik's vision and stubborness will be the nail in the coffin as we have seen 100 times before. It is frankly time for Henrik and SV to listen to the "haters" and accept what they are capable of doing and not doing.

It's a bad idea because of economics, the nature of software development, and public perception.

While it may sound good on paper, reassigning and shuffling the team to a different project in the middle of one that is already in progress is a textbook example of project mismanagement at best, and nuking it from orbit at worst.

Like I mentioned earlier, every dev team that has tried this has not succeeded in raising the funds from multiple side projects that they thought it would.

Look back at Bethesda Softworks pre-Morrowind, or the long list of now-defunct franchises that EA has shuffled around repeatedly as it tried to maximise profits that it erroneously perceived it would earn from milking the IP to the very last drop before terminating them.

Putting MO2 back into beta and life support would still require the server and associated costs to be paid, and mmorpg servers are not cheap. Meanwhile, SV would require at least 2-3 years to work on these other games. This means 2-3 years of no income. Unless SV has a parent publisher (which none of us here want) that can inject large amounts of funds for the next few years, it simply won't happen.

Putting MO2 back into beta would give the public perception that the team isn't committed to the game and are unable to stick to a schedule. Whatever interest that people on the outside may have for the game will evaporate. Once people move on, it's very hard to regain interest or traction, especially if the game goes back into beta which is very odd in software development.

 

[Farligbonde]

It's a bad idea because of economics, the nature of software development, and public perception.

While it may sound good on paper, reassigning and shuffling the team to a different project in the middle of one that is already in progress is textbook project mismanagement at best, and nuking it from orbit at worst.

Like I mentioned earlier, every dev team that has tried this has not succeeded in raising the funds from multiple side projects that they thought it would.

Look back at Bethesda Softworks pre-Morrowind, or the long list of now-defunct franchises that EA has shuffled around repeatedly as it tried to maximise profits that it erroneously perceived it would earn from milking the IP to the very last drop before terminating them.

Putting MO2 back into beta and life support would still require the server and associated costs to be paid, and mmorpg servers are not cheap. Meanwhile, SV would require at least 2-3 years to work on these other games. This means 2-3 years of no income. Unless SV has a parent publisher (which none of us here want) that can inject large amounts of funds for the next few years, it simply won't happen.

Putting MO2 back into beta would give the public perception that the team isn't able to stick to a schedule, and whatever interest that people on the outside may have for the game will evaporate. Once people move on, it's very hard to regain interest or traction, especially if the game goes back into beta which is very odd in software development.

Seriously doubt it would take SV 2-3 years to make a kitten'd mobile game for instance.

You know that mobile games is the most profitable games out there, easier to make than a mmorpg aswell.. compare that to trying to save a niche mmorpg that is the most expensive games to make and bring in the least money.

But yeah its upp to SV to decide but the odds is against them.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

The game has its issues, no one is denying that. Does the game need more work? Of course it does. But to reassign and shuffle the team around to work on a bunch of smaller money-making mainstream games to rake in the money is the last thing SV should do.

Past development studios that did this only succeeded in killing off their project or ended up making something vastly inferior to what the dev's vision intended. Look up any dev team that did it, and see what happened to their projects in the end.

SV is in the process of changing their development trajectory in response to feedback, and that is a good thing. If they still cannot turn the project around after one full year of the game's release, then we can have a conversation about that. Right now, we are still a little over half a year before its first anniversary.

If we truly want to support the project financially to help it reach a state that we will be happy with, then perhaps we are in the best position to do just that. Instead of asking what the project and the team can do for us, ask what we can do for the project and the team.

They are allways "really trying", and we shouldnt be doing anything for them, free feedback Is the most generous shit they can get but they don't do anything with it, this forum exists just to not be seen.
What better proof than yesterdays stream, why does Henrique stream if he doesn't have anything to say, he didnt gave any ETA and talked very over the top about light in UE5.

Can't say they working on UE5 when the game Is crumbling down due to massive design failures.

They need to start answering to the community and say what they are doing if they want support, shit starting to look like chronicles of elyra promises ill tell you that.

 

[manure]

Sires... The conversation is good and all but, in the end of the day what they actually have to do is simple !
Three steps :

1 - Remove excessive number of guards, especially outside towns.
2 - Release Thieving system
3 - Release Siege system

Theres no need to wipe, or go back to Beta, or to search for new funds or re-creating the game from scratch.

By doing those 3 steps above, they will save the game and bring back a giant number of players.
Plain simple.

 

[Emdash]

Yea you can't put the game back into beta. You can reset tho. They gotta be tighter about watching. By now they should know what to watch for. Some criminals get away, o well. In general, need more policing or saved logs. Should be easy to spot weird stuff. Flag certain people or guilds, b real. They can make duping or exploiting or w/e much LESS of a problem, worthy of a wipe, imo, but I know dudes who are sitting on stacks of high tier mats are like BUT I FARMED, and you did, sometimes contested, but due to the state of the game, it can be argued that things weren't properly working when you farmed at least the majority of it. I mean, it's still not working properly now! Still, they found some exploits, but the thing is they didn't do enough.

Every thing needs an escape clause, there is even an escape clause in the constitution. haha. If shit fails beyond a certain point, it's def worth a refresh. Not stop development, not put back into beta, just reset, add siege or FIRE ARROWS??(??? did they add them? iirc they balked) and keep the chars as specced, so people who exploited still get SOME ADVANTAGE

Then police your game.