When are we getting a counter to MM?

[Kaemik]

To give some background on how my biases are. I have played MC, MA, and MM. I run characters that have 100 controlled riding and mounted damage because those kinds of characters are needed for roams and trading between towns.

But anything I build for serious combat, be it PVE, townfights, or team fights doesn't run anything in the way of mounted skills. Because mounted skills on those kind of builds is 200-400 wasted primaries. Some of these builds have been in open world fights while moving them to dungeons, out farming etc. And they absolutely wreck mounted builds out there. No contest.

 

[Teknique]

Sounds like youre thinking more 1v1. Mounted vs foot.

Mounteds should excel in groups. Mounteds excel in mobility. Mounteds excel in resetting a fight. Mounteds excel in not having to worry about player stamina. Mounteds do more damage than foot. Shall I go on?

This whole "mounteds would disappear overnight" is just wrong. I'm not saying they are fine the way they are, because frankly I don't know. But I do know how they should be, and foot archers having a ranged knockdown that is very hard to pull off, such as a headshot on the rider, is not a ridiculous suggestion.

Even back in MO1 when we had dicerolls on dismounts, it wasn't that bad. It still took a quick coordination for the enemy to kill you before you could remount and ride off to safety.

Mounts need negatives. Certain terrain and getting pelted because you decide to ride solo isn't enough.

Arguing with Kaemik is pointless.

From his perspective because you can't run a full mounted force they are inferior.

He displays a complete ignorance of the role mounted play in terms of harass and running down routed players as well as an insane amount of survivability.

You can see he describes it "as massively underpowered".

Now mounted in MO 2 isn't at all fun to play and MC and MA feel awful this is definitely true.

but extra dismount mechanics and especially a ranged dismount are perfectly reasonable suggestions so long as they come with buffs and rebalances as well as actual thought out classes start to finish.

The nonsensical rambling of "herp derp big range stun on footie not balance sound? Then not balance maunted either" can safely be ignored.

btw earthquake was a ranged dismount in MO 1, it was fine in fact it was underpowered.

 

[MolagAmur]

I'm talking mounted vs. foot in any amount of numbers. 1v1. 3v3. 5v5. 100v100. Foot is always going to come out on top unless the players behind the keyboard are completely and totally outclassed by the mounted players or caught in an incredibly rare situation that gives mounted the upper hand. I say incredibly rare because not only can you use nearly any terrain against mounted players if you know how. But on completely flat terrain a group of footies who work well in coordination can defeat a mounted force no matter how skilled and coordinated that mounted force is.

If you want to talk mixed forces, I still think 100% foot is more capable of winning fights than any combination of foot and mounted based on the current meta. A few mounted players are good in a fight that's already won to harass and slow fleeing enemies enough to get a few more kills.



They do not. See above.



Only in terms of speed. A foot build can jump off a cliff. A foot build can swim. A foot build can fight in urban environments. A foot build can make tight turns around obstacles. A foot build can jump over short obstacles like fences. A smart footbuild can find ways to lose a mounted player in 90% of the map easily with any level of intelligence and creativity. What it can't do is make it from MK to Fabernum as quickly without ghosting. And that's why mounted builds are currently popular.



Sure. I'll grant that one. If a fully mounted force skirmishes with their opponents and ride away with all horses surviving they can reset. Usually any competent foot force can take out at least one of their horses in any skirmish of any decent size though. At which point the dismounted player is vulnerable if their allies attempt to reset.



Just mount stamina, which regenerates far more slowly and needs to be even more carefully managed.



By what measure? Because if you think the average mounted player puts out more DPS than the average foot player during a fight you are absolutely freaking insane. Sure, MC and MM can hit harder than the meta builds of their footie counterparts if you're measuring the damage of a single attack. But those hits take a lot longer to get off. They aren't even in the same universe in terms of average damage/healing output by a competent player over the coarse of a fight. That's so damn wrong it hurts to think there is anyone in this game so out of touch as to believe it for half a second.



Please do. Maybe you can come up with a 2nd point that actually holds water?



It's certainly a lot more correct than the idea mounted builds deal more damage. It's hyperbole but the reality is mounted builds are like Khurites. There are some people that have a poor enough understanding of the game to believe they are good. There are a few people willing to fight at a disadvantage for RP reasons. But once most the slower people in the community catch on about how bad they are they basically would die in the meta.

Except Khurites are way closer in power to meta melee builds than mounteds are to foot builds if not for the advantage of getting around the map faster. A decent Khurite build can still beat a meta build with just a moderate skill advantage in favor of the Khurite. For mounted builds to beat footies without numbers the skill advantage in their favor has to be MASSIVE.



Clearly.



Clearly not.



It's adding a massive weakness to an already massively underpowered playstyle. You're saying I'm the one thinking about 1v1s. If you're getting pelted by multiple foot archers and one manages a lucky hit that dismounts you, how do you rate your chances of your horse surviving while you remount and ride away? How do you rate your chances of surviving alone on foot as your allies ride off?

It's a death sentence. It doesn't belong in the game. Any more than stuns and the other hard CC trash that plagues most tab-targeted MMOs.



If you actually played a mounted build, you would realize they have many negatives, and they are perfectly sufficient. What they are sorely lacking is strengths to round out those weaknesses with the single exception of faster map travel.

What needs to happen to mounted builds is passenger capable mounts that can keep pace with steppe horses added to allow 0 controlled riding builds to traverse the map quickly as a part of a group, and then real PvP relevant strengths added to these incredibly gimped dumpster tier builds. Mounts need actual roles on the battlefield that make them worth considering for anything more than their ability to cross the map and run away.

Currently mounted builds can only defeat footie builds with overwhelming numbers. And they're definitely going to lose a few horses in fights that a similarly sized footie group could easily win without losses.

I was ready to reply to all this with my arguements.

However, after reading this I just can't:

By what measure? Because if you think the average mounted player puts out more DPS than the average foot player during a fight you are absolutely freaking insane. Sure, MC and MM can hit harder than the meta builds of their footie counterparts if you're measuring the damage of a single attack. But those hits take a lot longer to get off. They aren't even in the same universe in terms of average damage/healing output by a competent player over the coarse of a fight. That's so damn wrong it hurts to think there is anyone in this game so out of touch as to believe it for half a second.

You're talking about DPS over the length of a fight like this is some World of Warcraft dungeon. To even talk about DPS in Mortal is laughable. Sometimes all it takes is "a single attack" from a mounted to send someone to their backlines for a heal. Of course it takes longer to get off, that is the tradeoff of having all the pro's of being mounted. You then move in for another hit to send another guy to their back lines. You then have their group having to focus on when YOU are going to come in for an attack and while still needing to focus on the foot group. Its much more difficult for a full foot group to deal with a foot/mounted combo. If you disagree when that, then this game really is only left with dogshit players. Perhaps you just think you should be a moving tank and send yourself into an enemy group while they are ready for you. Idk what to tell you, get some tips from a good mounted player on how to engage properly....oh wait...there are none.

I didn't read the rest. You speak as if you are absolutely correct on what you said about DPS that I can't even have a debate with you lol. We are on just very different pages.

 

[MolagAmur]

Arguing with Kaemik is pointless.

From his perspective because you can't run a full mounted force they are inferior.

He displays a complete ignorance of the role mounted play in terms of harass and running down routed players as well as an insane amount of survivability.

You can see he describes it "as massively underpowered".

Now mounted in MO 2 isn't at all fun to play and MC and MA feel awful this is definitely true.

but extra dismount mechanics and especially a ranged dismount are perfectly reasonable suggestions so long as they come with buffs and rebalances as well as actual thought out classes start to finish.

The nonsensical rambling of "herp derp big range stun on footie not balance sound? Then not balance maunted either" can safely be ignored.

btw earthquake was a ranged dismount in MO 1, it was fine in fact it was underpowered.

Yeah, mounteds will and should always shine in the role of harassing and running down routed players. You simply cannot try to balance the game around an even matchup of a footman and a mounted. As much as rock/paper/scissors balancing sucks, its inevitable for certain parts of this game. There are many variables that make one or the other have the advantage at any given time.

Again, I'm not saying MC and MA doesn't need buffs, because as I said I do not know because I currently don't play. Some can say that means my opinion doesn't matter, thats fine. Star Vault needs to be extremely careful on the changes they make with it though. Because buffs before breeding will only be amplified. And we all know SV's track record of carelessly buffing things, and not wanting to nerf them until a year or more passes.

 

[Kaemik]

Except Veelas are really the best build for running down anything other than themselves. Their warcry can help their whole group close in for a kill and they're going to prevent anyone from escaping on nearly any terrain. Mounted builds are your go to when you're trying to chase a veela and you need something to slow them just enough for your own veelas to close in and make the kill. An MA pegging them if they try to run in a straight line may just be what you need. If the terrain even allows the MA to make a difference at all.

And yes. Absolutely. The DPS is a factor in any game period. A foot build can completely roll over the top of someone in the time it takes a mounted build to get off 2 hits. Technique should know. He got like 80%-0ed in a few seconds in the last PvP video I saw him post when I tried to cast in melee as a hybrid. But lack of understanding of things like time efficiency is probably why the more experienced I get in the mortal universe, the clearer it becomes to me that Technique is actually not a good player. Unless his videos are skrew up reels maybe? "Here's the time I got deleted for casting in a bush 2 feet away from my opponent." "Heres the time I rode around playing grab ass while all my allies were dying on foot." "Oh yeah but if they would have won the fight without me I would have been really useful."

Honestly Evelyn's early PvP videos where she is just running around on a veela stabbing unwary people in the back over and over are all way higher value than any video I've seen of Technique. Especially the ones where he is mounted.

 

[Dracu]

Mounteds are OP because they choose if a fight happens or not. A luxury foot classes dont have, they can repel an attack if they have the right setup but its not their choice if the fight happens. This is in my book the most OP thing you can have in a sandbox environment, the choice if a fight happens. You dont have to win a matchup against every class but you will have the choice to win every matchup you choose to engage with. If the early thing doesnt work out you can even disengage from the fight....
they dont have to fully commit. This goes for mounted groups aswell. Imagine you are on foot and have the choice to only engage favourable matchups in every situation... You would feel pretty strong aswell all the time. Doesnt help that many matchups dont have anything to properly fight back.

 

[Emdash]

Spinning is pretty whack, its somewhat skillfull but in the end its like you described... Muscle memory doing the same move again and again and again. I see what you mean. Yeah good point tbh. It might not add complexity but actually limit the "viable" moves available. Havent thought about it that way. But does it actually add complexity? Or reward skill... Comes down to implementation... But your point would have to be considered there aswell.

But the RNG doesnt add it either to be fair. You are still doing the same again and again, just that it sometimes does more and sometimes doesnt, just that it is completly out of your control.

Regarding macros and hacks, i have never seen any good player using either. Macros take controll away from you which is why nobody that is good would use them afaik.

But in the end... What does it matter... SV wont implement anything thats not based of mo1. Special attacks... They will add special attacks which were known in mo1 and then forget to implement the rest... Calling it now.

I guess that's the essential point we disagree on. I can't say I have been going hard on all TYPES of competitive games or even hard v AI games, but I've played a lot, and you can scroll all the way back to MARIO or Castlevania or Battletoads and find that muscle memory can get you a W. RNG is kind of the counter to that. I see both sides, but I think in a game that is as mechanically unsound/desync-y as MO RNG can make up for a lot. But yea it does suck to L because of it, but at least the variables are there, and it becomes more about how you deal with them, you know? Long game.

I think the RNG does matter simply because once something becomes "too money," it reshapes the game. So it is an essential cap on player skill, in a way. I've also not played a game where there was some special thing that wasn't able to mastered by the majority of the population. The ideal IMO is both, but yea weak spots have been dumb before. They kinda are dumb now, except for daggers... but the RNG idea, ESPECIALLY in regards to dismount, is something I want, there is just no way you can get away with a 100% dismount or a threshold dismount. It would favor one side way too much, as it did before. Look at VIKNUSS.

And like I said if they program in that you need to swing your hammer like a golf club to dismount, I promise you people will learn that shit in no time OR macro it. So yea, I am for bein able to do things to increase your chances of getting 'a good shot' to go back to basketball, but I feel like the game is won other places. It makes it more dynamic, to me.

Edit: re spinning, I dunno, I don't think we've seen the start of spinning yet. People who could glance block people etc and continue their movement, with MO swing arcs, could do some dance level stuff as I have said before, even in group fights, just slide right thru get like 2 hits and 1 parry haha. There is a part of the game that isn't even explored, but yea people do move crazy in terms of how fast they can turn, but it makes the game pretty intense. It's just weird when it's paired with such slow swings. That's why I'm coring with spw now haha.

Edit 2: up N w/ jotuns we can choose our fights v foot but not mounted. Haha rolling a Jotun is like come get it. armor... goin 730 speed. Oh yeah! Veela can def get away, people tend to get me either MAJOR ZERG or I make some mistake, like missing a jump or w/e. It's BORING but it's interesting the terrain, you can post up and get great shots on people's mounts all day. Yea they can ride away, and in some ways it would be nice to be able to stun them for a sec when you plug or something, but still blasting people with a long bow from a distance where it says humanoid... it puts fear in people even if they are in a zerg. lol. I like a lot of the dynamics of MO, just not the mechanics.

 

[Dracu]

I guess that's the essential point we disagree on. I can't say I have been going hard on all TYPES of competitive games or even hard v AI games, but I've played a lot, and you can scroll all the way back to MARIO or Castlevania or Battletoads and find that muscle memory can get you a W. RNG is kind of the counter to that. I see both sides, but I think in a game that is as mechanically unsound/desync-y as MO RNG can make up for a lot. But yea it does suck to L because of it, but at least the variables are there, and it becomes more about how you deal with them, you know? Long game.

I think the RNG does matter simply because once something becomes "too money," it reshapes the game. So it is an essential cap on player skill, in a way. I've also not played a game where there was some special thing that wasn't able to mastered by the majority of the population. The ideal IMO is both, but yea weak spots have been dumb before. They kinda are dumb now, except for daggers... but the RNG idea, ESPECIALLY in regards to dismount, is something I want, there is just no way you can get away with a 100% dismount or a threshold dismount. It would favor one side way too much, as it did before. Look at VIKNUSS.

And like I said if they program in that you need to swing your hammer like a golf club to dismount, I promise you people will learn that shit in no time OR macro it. So yea, I am for bein able to do things to increase your chances of getting 'a good shot' to go back to basketball, but I feel like the game is won other places. It makes it more dynamic, to me.

Edit: re spinning, I dunno, I don't think we've seen the start of spinning yet. People who could glance block people etc and continue their movement, with MO swing arcs, could do some dance level stuff as I have said before, even in group fights, just slide right thru get like 2 hits and 1 parry haha. There is a part of the game that isn't even explored, but yea people do move crazy in terms of how fast they can turn, but it makes the game pretty intense. It's just weird when it's paired with such slow swings. That's why I'm coring with spw now haha.

Edit 2: up N w/ jotuns we can choose our fights v foot but not mounted. Haha rolling a Jotun is like come get it. armor... goin 730 speed. Oh yeah! Veela can def get away, people tend to get me either MAJOR ZERG or I make some mistake, like missing a jump or w/e. It's BORING but it's interesting the terrain, you can post up and get great shots on people's mounts all day. Yea they can ride away, and in some ways it would be nice to be able to stun them for a sec when you plug or something, but still blasting people with a long bow from a distance where it says humanoid... it puts fear in people even if they are in a zerg. lol. I like a lot of the dynamics of MO, just not the mechanics.

Its cool that we have different viewpoints on the same matter, i think we also made our points in a mannered and constructive fashion. Lets hope SV looks at both and thinks about those when implementing theur systems... Haha good one we know it wont happen fun talk though

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I'm talking mounted vs. foot in any amount of numbers. 1v1. 3v3. 5v5. 100v100. Foot is always going to come out on top unless the players behind the keyboard are completely and totally outclassed by the mounted players or caught in an incredibly rare situation that gives mounted the upper hand. I say incredibly rare because not only can you use nearly any terrain against mounted players if you know how. But on completely flat terrain a group of footies who work well in coordination can defeat a mounted force no matter how skilled and coordinated that mounted force is.

If you want to talk mixed forces, I still think 100% foot is more capable of winning fights than any combination of foot and mounted based on the current meta. A few mounted players are good in a fight that's already won to harass and slow fleeing enemies enough to get a few more kills.



They do not. See above.



Only in terms of speed. A foot build can jump off a cliff. A foot build can swim. A foot build can fight in urban environments. A foot build can make tight turns around obstacles. A foot build can jump over short obstacles like fences. A smart footbuild can find ways to lose a mounted player in 90% of the map easily with any level of intelligence and creativity. What it can't do is make it from MK to Fabernum as quickly without ghosting. And that's why mounted builds are currently popular.



Sure. I'll grant that one. If a fully mounted force skirmishes with their opponents and ride away with all horses surviving they can reset. Usually any competent foot force can take out at least one of their horses in any skirmish of any decent size though. At which point the dismounted player is vulnerable if their allies attempt to reset.



Just mount stamina, which regenerates far more slowly and needs to be even more carefully managed.



By what measure? Because if you think the average mounted player puts out more DPS than the average foot player during a fight you are absolutely freaking insane. Sure, MC and MM can hit harder than the meta builds of their footie counterparts if you're measuring the damage of a single attack. But those hits take a lot longer to get off. They aren't even in the same universe in terms of average damage/healing output by a competent player over the coarse of a fight. That's so damn wrong it hurts to think there is anyone in this game so out of touch as to believe it for half a second.



Please do. Maybe you can come up with a 2nd point that actually holds water?



It's certainly a lot more correct than the idea mounted builds deal more damage. It's hyperbole but the reality is mounted builds are like Khurites. There are some people that have a poor enough understanding of the game to believe they are good. There are a few people willing to fight at a disadvantage for RP reasons. But once most the slower people in the community catch on about how bad they are they basically would die in the meta.

Except Khurites are way closer in power to meta melee builds than mounteds are to foot builds if not for the advantage of getting around the map faster. A decent Khurite build can still beat a meta build with just a moderate skill advantage in favor of the Khurite. For mounted builds to beat footies without numbers the skill advantage in their favor has to be MASSIVE.



Clearly.



Clearly not.



It's adding a massive weakness to an already massively underpowered playstyle. You're saying I'm the one thinking about 1v1s. If you're getting pelted by multiple foot archers and one manages a lucky hit that dismounts you, how do you rate your chances of your horse surviving while you remount and ride away? How do you rate your chances of surviving alone on foot as your allies ride off?

It's a death sentence. It doesn't belong in the game. Any more than stuns and the other hard CC trash that plagues most tab-targeted MMOs.



If you actually played a mounted build, you would realize they have many negatives, and they are perfectly sufficient. What they are sorely lacking is strengths to round out those weaknesses with the single exception of faster map travel.

What needs to happen to mounted builds is passenger capable mounts that can keep pace with steppe horses added to allow 0 controlled riding builds to traverse the map quickly as a part of a group, and then real PvP relevant strengths added to these incredibly gimped dumpster tier builds. Mounts need actual roles on the battlefield that make them worth considering for anything more than their ability to cross the map and run away.

Currently mounted builds can only defeat footie builds with overwhelming numbers. And they're definitely going to lose a few horses in fights that a similarly sized footie group could easily win without losses.

So what mounteds don't have to be dedicated mounteds, thats the first mistake. It's a shitty tradeoff, and it couldnt be any other way. We come from MO1 that had wheelchair meta mounteds, and it ment that if your horse died your character would probably die not long after. But theres no breeding bullhorses in MO2, which clearly changes the scenery.

I'd hate to see SV would balance mounteds to be what they were in MO1, which was a dog ass mounted gear crouch circle jerk. What happens today in MO2 Is way more valuable, players using non crippled mounted builds because horses are overall shit means they are also prepared for foot combat, and even tho they have limited build due to the very fact they have to spend mounted skillpoints, they still should be viable on the ground.

I find it way more valuable to see people getting their horses killed and moving on to foot confrontation, instead of a crippled full mounted build losing a horse and being unable to fight back. Meaning that i rather not see THAT kind of protagonism in mounteds.

Like i said before horses should be a tool and not the end. And i believe mounted gameplay should be more accesible to everyone and impact less in the build's skill pools.

Dedicated mounted builds were bad for MO1 and i don't see how are they going to be better in MO2

 

[Kaemik]

So what mounteds don't have to be dedicated mounteds, thats the first mistake.

Sure. That's true. But the thing is undedicated mounted builds still are incredibly limited in their usefulness. Because of their pitifully low contributions to their team in terms of damage/healing the part a mounted build becomes truly useful to their team is the part where they dismount or their mount dies. At that point they are foot build missing 200 primaries. There is no foot build I cannot improve significantly with 200 primaries.

If not for the fact a stationary horse is a dead horse I'd literally encourage everybody I work with to not take any mounted damage skills and dismount the moment they engage in a fight. Mounted combat is basically there to keep your horses alive.

So it's worth bearing in mind that while this game currently is all about ganks in the wild, sieges are coming. And mounted builds have no place in them currently.

Mounteds are OP because they choose if a fight happens or not. A luxury foot classes dont have, they can repel an attack if they have the right setup but its not their choice if the fight happens.

This is mostly true and it's the reason I think 100% mounted forces SHOULD need a numbers advantage to beat 100% foot. The issue is that 90% foot 10% mounted is still weaker significantly weaker than 100% foot. Which absolutely should not be the case.

Also while foot forces do have issues forcing a fight, there are many ways they can deny a fight.

You want to fight me mounted and I'm next to water. Fight over. We're in GK. Fight over. We're in MK pass and my build can survive a cliff jump. Fight over. Etc.

 

[Teknique]

“But you missed a few times and people got away from you, you also almost died”

Kid has 0 idea on what role mounted traditionally played. He wants to see all mounted siege forces lmao

 

[Emdash]

Its cool that we have different viewpoints on the same matter, i think we also made our points in a mannered and constructive fashion. Lets hope SV looks at both and thinks about those when implementing theur systems... Haha good one we know it wont happen fun talk though

yeah, I want the game to be better. It could happen, if not no sub!

 

[Hodo]

“But you missed a few times and people got away from you, you also almost died”

Kid has 0 idea on what role mounted traditionally played. He wants to see all mounted siege forces lmao

I miss the old dismount mechanics. I dont miss the stupid slowing down running up hills though.

 

[Kaemik]

“But you missed a few times and people got away from you, you also almost died”

Kid has 0 idea on what role mounted traditionally played. He wants to see all mounted siege forces lmao

I don't want mount balance based on a low value MC who is cucking himself out of a worthwhile role because he's too bad at the game to understand how little value he has, and because he want's senpai FF's to notice him.

I've stated multiple times 100% FF should defeat 100% mounted if the mounted group doesn't have a significant skill/numbers advantage. That doesn't mean they can't have a role other than semi-annoying distraction in supporting their foot forces though. I understand perfectly the role you play in your trashy PvP vids. Garbage. Any time I see a video of you on a mount you could easily be outperformed by any halfway decent footfighter, mage, or hybrid. Hell even a foot archer who only melees when forced to would have more value than you.

A major selling point of this game to me was the idea that you're not better off dismounting to fight like every other MMO that claims to have mounted combat. So far this game fails to deliver.

Personally I always shift to roles that have higher value when something is gimped. Which is why of the 5 accounts I've built, 1 of them has mounted combat skills currently. And that one is a trader. I want to love MC but it's too easy to trash if you understand the role to justify actually playing it. By all means though. Stay a cuck and argue for more nerfs to an already gimped role.

 

[Teknique]

I don't want mount balance based on a low value MC who is cucking himself out of a worthwhile role because he's too bad at the game to understand how little value he has, and because he want's senpai FF's to notice him.

I've stated multiple times 100% FF should defeat 100% mounted if the mounted group doesn't have a significant skill/numbers advantage. That doesn't mean they can't have a role other than semi-annoying distraction in supporting their foot forces though. I understand perfectly the role you play in your trashy PvP vids. Garbage. Any time I see a video of you on a mount you could easily be outperformed by any halfway decent footfighter, mage, or hybrid. Hell even a foot archer who only melees when forced to would have more value than you.

A major selling point of this game to me was the idea that you're not better off dismounting to fight like every other MMO that claims to have mounted combat. So far this game fails to deliver.

Personally I always shift to roles that have higher value when something is gimped. Which is why of the 5 accounts I've built, 1 of them has mounted combat skills currently. And that one is a trader. I want to love MC but it's too easy to trash if you understand the role to justify actually playing it. By all means though. Stay a cuck and argue for more nerfs to an already gimped role.

Hahahahaha yeah you’re so bias you see someone 2 shotting footfighters and are still sticking with your you would have done more on foot narrative. So sad to see dishonesty manifest.

Running down foots and trucking them. “Mounts should have someeeee valueeee” hahaha.

You actually came at me in my thread with the I just want mounteds to be unplayable. Why in the fuck would I want my main class to be unplayable? It’s unplayable now which we agree on except for fatmage which has super impact which we probably don’t agree on.

People like you who cried about mounted underpowered are the reason its nerfed to the ground in this game.

Anyway it’s important that we filter out feedback such as yours so you don’t end up breaking another class.

 

[MolagAmur]

Kaemik just can't seem to understand how dangerous asking for mounted buffs can be. I don't think anyone in this thread has said that they are fine, but many of us are worried about how easily they can't go from "underpowered" to "fucking stupid" overnight. There have been some good suggestions in this thread, zero of which have been from Kaemik.

The guy who wants a DPS meter on the bottom of his screen so he can optimize his build for MO PvP.
The guy who thinks ranged knockdowns are the most insane suggestion he has ever heard.

We ALL know mounted buffs are going to come. Its important those of us that witnessed the abomination it was in MO1 for 4+? years doesn't happen again.

Yeah, some of us still have hope for this trainwreck. Its an illness.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Kaemik just can't seem to understand how dangerous asking for mounted buffs can be. I don't think anyone in this thread has said that they are fine, but many of us are worried about how easily they can't go from "underpowered" to "fucking stupid" overnight. There have been some good suggestions in this thread, zero of which have been from Kaemik.

The guy who wants a DPS meter on the bottom of his screen so he can optimize his build for MO PvP.
The guy who thinks ranged knockdowns are the most insane suggestion he has ever heard.

We ALL know mounted buffs are going to come. Its important those of us that witnessed the abomination it was in MO1 for 4+? years doesn't happen again.

Yeah, some of us still have hope for this trainwreck. Its an illness.

Lol so true. Like if these very same dicussions didnt happen during the existance of MO1 where we have seen from exploting horses to the ultimate kamikaze MM EQs that would dismount 20+ mounteds in the middle of a foot group. The thousands hours of mounted gameplay we gave feedback over years. Extensive long debates on what mounteds should be, and SV couldn't ever balance that shit. Or when SV destroyed archery for more than 8 months because they "didnt knew MA was broken" or the non weight penalties for mounteds. MMs using tungsteel guardfur gear, i mean i had a huergar MC that used 35+ weight tung guardfur gear. We have whitnessed the worst of mounteds and we can aknowledge their problematics and we don't want it to be the same shit (or worse) than it was in MO1.

Talk about sieges, we ran entire sieges while mounted.

I'd hate to see mounteds having the wrong type of protagonism, but the problem Is a structural one, where mounts don't occupy the role they should.
Theres no dismount features or barely any and mounteds cannot be balanced or better yet buffed" aslong as they keep being broken from the very root.

Not trying to be a douche that says vets and know better (cuz they don't), but we do have way better and extensive experiences concerning the lack of mounted balance and design.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Sure. That's true. But the thing is undedicated mounted builds still are incredibly limited in their usefulness. Because of their pitifully low contributions to their team in terms of damage/healing the part a mounted build becomes truly useful to their team is the part where they dismount or their mount dies. At that point they are foot build missing 200 primaries. There is no foot build I cannot improve significantly with 200 primaries.

If not for the fact a stationary horse is a dead horse I'd literally encourage everybody I work with to not take any mounted damage skills and dismount the moment they engage in a fight. Mounted combat is basically there to keep your horses alive.

So it's worth bearing in mind that while this game currently is all about ganks in the wild, sieges are coming. And mounted builds have no place in them currently.

I disagree i think mounted-foot builds are gimped because of the shit tier design the game has, but they are still usefull. I mean a sheevra MM thats not overweight can do perfectly fine when the horse dies, as i have a thurkur MA with marksmanship that often loses It's horse and then proceed to fight on foot. It's a tradeoff. Obviously they would be gimped compared to full foot builds.

In my opinion mounts should be built under the premise of being disposable tools and being able to continúe playing when the mount dies, people could try and make glass cannon builds but It's a shitty tradeoff.

Mounteds exist not to maintain their horses alive but to fullfill a role, even tho personal strategy Is to keep en alive cuz #movility mounts are a mean to an end and not the end itself which was one of the mayor issues in MO1 and bred horses which it ultimately became a gear crouch competion.

Sieges are not even in the horizon and if they are be sure mounts are the least of the concerns. And when sieges do come out mounteds should already have a role.

Acting like having an extra pool of HP aint overpowered by itself, thats the precise reason they need better design. But like said before It's a structural problem that comes from the root of the scam 1 char per account model with total dogshit skillpool.

Accepting that Is not going to change seems insulting someone has to choose between being dedicated mounted and being able to do something on the ground. There has to be a wider spectrum of versatile mounted builds instead of just dedicated ones. And yes they should play a role yet under no circunstances a role that can outplay tottally to footis. This Is the reason more and better dismount mechanics are a must. Aslong as a working MC class that doesn't exist even tho theres "skills" ingame for it, surprice surprice another placeholder poop.

 

[Kaemik]

Hahahahaha yeah you’re so bias you see someone 2 shotting footfighters and are still sticking with your you would have done more on foot narrative. So sad to see dishonesty manifest.

Yes because what you're failing to mention in the whole "2 shotting footfighters" bit is you average like 1-2 hits a minute.

DPS meters often overlook a lot of values like CC, distraction, mind games etc. But we aren't talking a small difference in DPS, and I'm not seeing you add all that much value outside pure DPS.

If you simply rolled a veela and sat there with a bow keeping up a hail of arrows on the enemies every time someone isn't chasing you in melee you're talking upwards of 3 times the damage output. That kind of shit matters when your objective is to make the enemies die before your entire team dies. If you were on a melee build you could be forcing the opponent to have to parry more than one opponent. That's some real value a DPS meter wouldn't measure and you'd still have much higher DPS.

You suck. And you could be outperformed by any foot build. The first step to getting better is ditch the mount and roll a decent footbuild. And that's why in all your "Mounted is so OP" videos basically everyone else is fighting on foot. Because they're smarter than you, and they realize that not dying and getting off an occasional big hit have really limited value in a group fight.

And yes I'm not expecting people who want a role to stay gimped to like my suggestions. I will not be happy with the state of mounted combat until mounted builds serve a role where mixed fighting forces are better than pure foot if they mix in some mounted players who are good at what they do. And nothing being suggested by MO1 vets is going to achieve that.

Honestly though, it's whatever. Because of the terrible balance suggestions by MO1 vets that keep foot melee first and foremost of everything happening in this game I've learned melee combat and mixed it in to most of my builds. There are a few ways to break outside the foot-fighter mold and be broken good. And none of them involve mounts. So if you want to keep mounts broken bad and play them then I guess I'm ok with that.

 

[Jatix]

I hate weakspot as much as i hate equipment hits (not shields). I cant think of anyone... Besides Henrik... That said... Equipment hits? Thats the best thing ever!!

But its so realistic, which is what this gmae is about. Hitting a steel torso does 30 damage but hitting his bow that you would easily break with your axe, 0 damage. Just how it would work in real life.
/s