What would revitalize MO2? Just some thoughts...

[Aegis301]

Here some actual Steam Chart numbers. It's not as bad as some believe, but it isn't good either.

Month Avg. Players Gain % Gain
Last 30 Days 2,091.5 -113.0 -5.13%
March 2022 2,204.5 -2,627.6 -54.38%
February 2022 4,832.1 +2,897.6 +149.79%
January 2022 1,934.5 +1,314.0 +211.78%
December 2021 620.4 + 182.1 +41.54%
November 2021 438.4 - -


If you look at the last 7 days, MO2 has had lows of less than 500 players.

This is AFTER the server fixes and the merging. So what is making players leave, and new players stay away?


Here's my opinion:

1. Player House- A game of this type is not meant to be played, locked in cities. You should be able to spawn at your house, and also stable mounts there. You should be able to share ownership as well. Locking new players inside cities with large RPK guilds such as BEAR, is not a good thing. TLDR, you should be able to LIVE out of your house.
2. RPK Griefing- I'm not talking about pvp here. I know of whole clans that exploit the blue name system. They do this so that they can get the first attack in, alpha strike so to speak. I'm not talking about ambushes from the woods, just exploiting the blue name system. When the game draws your name, and guild tag...etc.
3. Lack of Content- I don't mean quests. I mean systems in place to encourage living in Nave. Henrik wants MO2 to rival Eve Online....he needs to learn some lessons from it.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

The lows of ~500 are generally when the server goes down for daily maintenance or when Seb deploys server-side patches, which have been numerous over the past month or so.

Technically, no one is able to play during these times. But some are content to leave the game running at the main menu screen and alt-tab out and do something else while they wait for the server to come back online. Steam will still register that as playtime.

 

[Atom]

Here some actual Steam Chart numbers. It's not as bad as some believe, but it isn't good either.

Month Avg. Players Gain % Gain
Last 30 Days 2,091.5 -113.0 -5.13%
March 2022 2,204.5 -2,627.6 -54.38%
February 2022 4,832.1 +2,897.6 +149.79%
January 2022 1,934.5 +1,314.0 +211.78%
December 2021 620.4 + 182.1 +41.54%
November 2021 438.4 - -


If you look at the last 7 days, MO2 has had lows of less than 500 players.

This is AFTER the server fixes and the merging. So what is making players leave, and new players stay away?


Here's my opinion:

1. Player House- A game of this type is not meant to be played, locked in cities. You should be able to spawn at your house, and also stable mounts there. You should be able to share ownership as well. Locking new players inside cities with large RPK guilds such as BEAR, is not a good thing. TLDR, you should be able to LIVE out of your house.
2. RPK Griefing- I'm not talking about pvp here. I know of whole clans that exploit the blue name system. They do this so that they can get the first attack in, alpha strike so to speak. I'm not talking about ambushes from the woods, just exploiting the blue name system. When the game draws your name, and guild tag...etc.
3. Lack of Content- I don't mean quests. I mean systems in place to encourage living in Nave. Henrik wants MO2 to rival Eve Online....he needs to learn some lessons from it.

I think there are a number of factors but the main one is content. I think SV have realised that they need to get content out and can't spend endless patches fiddling with the back end. It needs fixing but what's the use of a fully optimised server if it is empty?

They need to prioritise war and territory control to encourage meaningful combat (RPK ganking is the nadir of meaningful combat).
We also need new mobs and new group bosses.

SV's choice to introduce new magic schools does nothing to fix the inherent problems that already plague casters. Mage is a popular class in most games. Generally speaking I'd guess they make up about 25% of players in this type of game. If SV neglect them then they will leave or may already be leaving. Reworking of magic and better accessibility to magic spells etc is desperately needed.

The alignment/criminal system is a mess. It's easily abused and it's basically unfair. New players will tolerate dying and being looted if it appears to be done in a relatively fair way. Unfair mechanics will drive players away before they even get to know the deeper politics of a game like this.

Balance is also a big problem. Horses dying too easily just suck all the fun out of an encounter because it's really just a race to see who can kill whose horse first.

There's so much that needs to be done it seems overwhelming. There's still a lot of questionable choices being made by Henrik. I hope his gut feelings pay off.

 

[Tzone]

You would have a strong dedicated PvP base still playing if you didnt treat them like trash still. Who kept the game alive for the year of almost no content and broken game during beta.

 

[Atom]

You would have a strong dedicated PvP base still playing if you didnt treat them like trash still. Who kept the game alive for the year of almost no content and broken game during beta.

The beta testers? It's not really keeping a game alive when it hasn't even been born yet.

That same "dedicated PvP base" have done their damnest to scare away potential new players. Most of the time they don't even give newbies a chance to settle in. So if they kept the game alive during beta () why do they want to kill the game when it's launched?
Who knew getting ganked in the first 5mins out of haven wasn't a good experience

 

[Turd]

Selling 110,000 copies prelaunch kept the game alive.
The promise of an "Immersive MMORPG" sold those copies, until you go exploring and find absolutely nothing but trees.
They seriously need a lore writer or anybody adding more to the world like caves/camps/random spawns.

Hopefully housing functions enable guild cities. Priest/Stable at least. Trader would be cool.
Life is Feudal MMO did a few things right, a guild claim was fully functional with crafting/trading/respawn points.

You got 25 years of pvp MMOs for inspiration.

 

[Vaith]

They need to remove the alt servers

 

[Covenant]

As long as large guilds can overrun smaller ones and solos and the game forces solos and small guilds into the main cities (pretty much setting them up to be ambushed daily) this game will never survive. Its going to die like MO1 did. Large guilds killed the last version, they will kill this version and they KNOW they will but they will do nothing about it among their members but blame the devs for it.
Put the necessary housing tools in place so that solos and small guilds can get out of the main towns. At least then the large zerg guilds like BEAR etc will have to work for their newbie ambushes.

 

[Aegis301]

Here's what I would do...IF I was a dev in Starvault.

1. Make it possible to spawn at your house. A bed or something
2. Make a stable as part of your house. Not a killable NPC.
3. Red is Red. Right now too many red guilds masquerading as blue guilds and living in the main cities. Exploiting the current system.
4. Make is possible for players to flag other players as blue, grey, or red. Even flag other guilds in this manner. Look at Eve Online for how this works.
5. Increase the amount of spawns across Myrland, but decrease the amount of non combat mobs in those spawns.

Only after all this was done, would I then implement Territory Control. These 5 steps would set up a foundation for a successful TC launch.

Edit: Forgot to add. Henrik, I'm available for hire, but I"d have to give 2 wks notice. Also, I can't move.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

The beta testers? It's not really keeping a game alive when it hasn't even been born yet.

That same "dedicated PvP base" have done their damnest to scare away potential new players. Most of the time they don't even give newbies a chance to settle in. So if they kept the game alive during beta () why do they want to kill the game when it's launched?
Who knew getting ganked in the first 5mins out of haven wasn't a good experience

If a player gets scared away because they got ganked within 5 minutes of arriving on the mainland, they likely didn't read the game's description on Steam before hitting the buy button.

From the game's Steam page:
"Full loot and full PVP
Mortal Online is not like other MMOs. In Mortal Online any player can at any point attack another player and take everything they own. This makes every encounter with another player a dangerous affair that could result in great loss."

 

[Aegis301]

From the game's Steam page:
"Full loot and full PVP
Mortal Online is not like other MMOs. In Mortal Online any player can at any point attack another player and take everything they own. This makes every encounter with another player a dangerous affair that could result in great loss."

Yet Eve Online is the same full loot style game, and Henrik has said his goal is to be like Eve Online with MO2. Here's the difference:
MO2 has 2k average players....Eve Online 20k. It's all about the systems in place to facilitate a full loot full pvp game.

Mo2 will NOT survive on 2k average players, even when subscription begins......

I am all for full loot, pvp. I currently play many games that allow it. Put the right systems in, and MO2 will grow and thrive..which is what I want.

 

[Atom]

If a player gets scared away because they got ganked within 5 minutes of arriving on the mainland, they likely didn't read the game's description on Steam before hitting the buy button.

From the game's Steam page:
"Full loot and full PVP
Mortal Online is not like other MMOs. In Mortal Online any player can at any point attack another player and take everything they own. This makes every encounter with another player a dangerous affair that could result in great loss."

The same argument is made for every first/third person full loot game. And they all fall by the wayside because the genre attracts some really toxic people. You're saying it's the toxic people that make the content.
It's one thing to lose all your stuff but it has to at least feel like you had a chance to defend yourself or else it's just another mugging simulator that dies a slow death by dwindling population.
The toxic people abuse the mechanics to give themselves an unfair advantage and while it remains unfair it is destined to die.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

The same argument is made for every first/third person full loot game. And they all fall by the wayside because the genre attracts some really toxic people. You're saying it's the toxic people that make the content.
It's one thing to lose all your stuff but it has to at least feel like you had a chance to defend yourself or else it's just another mugging simulator that dies a slow death by dwindling population.
The toxic people abuse the mechanics to give themselves an unfair advantage and while it remains unfair it is destined to die.

The way people defend themselves is by playing smart, and learning from mistakes. Nobody gets it right the first time, but if they quit because they died to a rpk then that's not really the game's fault. If the cat caught the mouse because the mouse decided to lie down outside the hole and have a nap, is it the cat's fault?

Toxic people exist in every mmo I've played over the course of 19 years, theme park and sandbox alike, so toxic is a very loose word. The people playing as rpk are not necessarily toxic, they are simply opportunists and playing the game as it allows them. Also, how are they abusing the game mechanics to gain an unfair advantage?

And it's not just the rpkers who create the content, it's everyone who does anything meaningful or interacts with the world or other players in some way. To argue that rpkers are toxic and must not be allowed to do what they do, is in effect destroying part of the fabric of this game.

As a side note, EVE Online is built on pretty much the same pvp principles as MO2, and I would say that game is even more catered to ambushers. They can camp the jump gates or scan down anyone in the system and warp to their location, webify them, and destroy them without the possibility of escape. Yet that game has 25-30k players. So full pvp and full looting games aren't "destined to die".

 

[Atom]

The way people defend themselves is by playing smart, and learning from mistakes. Nobody gets it right the first time, but if they quit because they died to a rpk then that's not really the game's fault. If the cat caught the mouse because the mouse decided to lie down outside the hole and have a nap, is it the cat's fault?

Toxic people exist in every mmo I've played over the course of 19 years, theme park and sandbox alike, so toxic is a very loose word. The people playing as rpk are not necessarily toxic, they are simply opportunists and playing the game as it allows them. Also, how are they abusing the game mechanics to gain an unfair advantage?

And it's not just the rpkers who create the content, it's everyone who does anything meaningful or interacts with the world or other players in some way. To argue that rpkers are toxic and must not be allowed to do what they do, is in effect destroying part of the fabric of this game.

As a side note, EVE Online is built on pretty much the same pvp principles as MO2, and I would say that game is even more catered to ambushers. They can camp the jump gates or scan down anyone in the system and warp to their location, webify them, and destroy them without the possibility of escape. Yet that game has 25-30k players. So full pvp and full looting games aren't "destined to die".

Eve also has factions, high sec space, police and a meaningful alignment system. It's also a huge universe. But it's not a good or fair comparison either.

If you want to make the comparison then you also have to explain what it is about eve that makes it popular because it isn't just RPK and the risks involved.

And I'm not saying all RPK are toxic. We need bad guys to keep the game interesting. But atm the bad guys hold all the cards. They don't have to live with the bad guy label for a start. Being a bad guy is a temporary affliction and that is what rubs people up the wrong way. They never have to face justice and simply get richer all the time. We get enough of that in real life so who wants to have it in their free time as well?

Why do RPK get to indulge their fantasy of being a feared criminal and everyone else has to accept harsh reality and not have any fantasy at all? Seems a bit one sided, don't you think?

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

Eve also has factions, high sec space, police and a meaningful alignment system. It's also a huge universe. But it's not a good or fair comparison either.

If you want to make the comparison then you also have to explain what it is about eve that makes it popular because it isn't just RPK and the risks involved.

And I'm not saying all RPK are toxic. We need bad guys to keep the game interesting. But atm the bad guys hold all the cards. They don't have to live with the bad guy label for a start. Being a bad guy is a temporary affliction and that is what rubs people up the wrong way. They never have to face justice and simply get richer all the time. We get enough of that in real life so who wants to have it in their free time as well?

Why do RPK get to indulge their fantasy of being a feared criminal and everyone else has to accept harsh reality and not have any fantasy at all? Seems a bit one sided, don't you think?

I would say those who keep making the same mistakes over and over and learn nothing from it, will make the murderers richer.

But those who take active steps to protect themselves and deprive the murderer of the opportunity will make them less able to profit off the loss of others. The people who play smarter every time will get richer over time. That is the one undisputed rule that I have seen play out over and over again in every game.

I can guarantee that when thievery arrives, there will be more threads arguing that thievery is going to kill the game and needs to be dialed back or shelved altogether.

With regards to EVE, all of the systems in place that give the appearance of a well-balanced and refined pvp landscape, are merely time sink penalties for the rpker should they decide to engage in criminal behaviour. Similar to the parcel runs we have in MO2. They just need to grind back their reputation through pve or missions.

The Empire police forces and Concord themselves are punitive, not preventative, in function. A well-coordinated group can still alpha-strike a single player ship in the most heavily-policed star systems and destroy it if they really wanted to.

Also, I would mention that EVE is notorious for in-game scams, and the devs consider it as part of the game and will not intervene on your behalf if you fall victim to it. So much so that in its busiest trade hub star system, the space station's public announcement repeatedly warns players about scams.

One of the main reasons why EVE has been able to sustain such a high population for almost two decades is, in my opinion, their extensive and well-fleshed out UI that gives players the ability to do what they want to do better in every way conceivable.

The other reason is the EVE's considerable attention to the new player tutorial which goes through a major revamp every few years to teach (not protect, but teach) newcomers how the game works and getting them up to speed, so they know how to take care of themselves.

If MO2 would replicate EVE's attention to detail in these two areas, namely the UI and new player experience, I don't see why it can't be just as successful.

 

[Atom]

I would say those who keep making the same mistakes over and over and learn nothing from it, will make the murderers richer.

But those who take active steps to protect themselves and deprive the murderer of the opportunity will make them less able to profit off the loss of others. The people who play smarter every time will get richer over time. That is the one undisputed rule that I have seen play out over and over again in every game.

I can guarantee that when thievery arrives, there will be more threads arguing that thievery is going to kill the game and needs to be dialed back or shelved altogether.

With regards to EVE, all of the systems in place that give the appearance of a well-balanced and refined pvp landscape, are merely time sink penalties for the rpker should they decide to engage in criminal behaviour. Similar to the parcel runs we have in MO2. They just need to grind back their reputation through pve or missions.

The Empire police forces and Concord themselves are punitive, not preventative, in function. A well-coordinated group can still alpha-strike a single player ship in the most heavily-policed star systems and destroy it if they really wanted to.

Also, I would mention that EVE is notorious for in-game scams, and the devs consider it as part of the game and will not intervene on your behalf if you fall victim to it. So much so that in its busiest trade hub star system, the space station's public announcement repeatedly warns players about scams.

One of the main reasons why EVE has been able to sustain such a high population for almost two decades is, in my opinion, their extensive and well-fleshed out UI that gives players the ability to do what they want to do better in every way conceivable.

The other reason is the EVE's considerable attention to the new player tutorial which goes through a major revamp every few years to teach (not protect, but teach) newcomers how the game works and getting them up to speed, so they know how to take care of themselves.

If MO2 would replicate EVE's attention to detail in these two areas, namely the UI and new player experience, I don't see why it can't be just as successful.

But it's still not a fair comparison. The very premise of eve allows access to systems that simply couldn't be implemented in MO. It's set in the future and the only limitation is the designer's imagination. Complex systems can be explained by advanced technology. If SV explained everything as "magic" it would become an instant meme.

Eve alignment and combat philosophy has many luxuries that MO2 can't.

You have to compare MO2 with games of the same genre. Full loot pvp is only a partial genre and therefore only shares similarities with eve for comparison.

 

[CrgHck]

You have to compare MO2 with games of the same genre.

The genre is MMORPG

 

[MolagAmur]

As long as large guilds can overrun smaller ones and solos and the game forces solos and small guilds into the main cities (pretty much setting them up to be ambushed daily) this game will never survive. Its going to die like MO1 did. Large guilds killed the last version, they will kill this version and they KNOW they will but they will do nothing about it among their members but blame the devs for it.
Put the necessary housing tools in place so that solos and small guilds can get out of the main towns. At least then the large zerg guilds like BEAR etc will have to work for their newbie ambushes.

Games designed like these usually die off pretty quickly if we are being honest. Largely due to the reasons you mentioned, but also the lack of things to do for people who don't want to run around in these large groups. Currently we have a handful of "hotspots" which are mostly all dungeons (which the bigger the group the easier it is). Otherwise its going to towns and killing people outside trying to get the milita to give you a fight.

The noobs get the shit end of the stick because people are just trying to get a fight, and most of the time anything they run across they kill. The world is so massive its hard to just pass potential pvp...noob or not. This is the gameplay loop. You can also throw in sieging when they finally add that.

All this could be fine if there was a lot more to the game. I understand content is going to trickle in every few weeks now, but is it enough to get people back? To get people to stay? Not sure...

What i do know, is people don't like losing. Nobody wants to play a game where they constantly lose. I guess thats why everyone is in these bigass guilds. That shit is just so boring to me.

I myself am in a smaller guild, and we beat larger guilds quite often(until they call their friends). You know how they are going to get revenge? By zerging down your assets. Thats the ultimate "flex" in MO for whatever reason.

Tldr; yeah I agree with you. Zerg up or prepare to lose a lot. Fortunately for my guild, we like fighting outnumbered. Bear telling my guild member we have to pay a "tax" to not be killed was cute though...gotta give the little guy credit.

Also the part you mentioned about them blaming SV for killing the game....yeah you got dudes farming noobs in Tindrem sewers everyday. Its just how the game is and always will be. Call it a design flaw...

 

[Atom]

The genre is MMORPG

Wow is an mmorpg. Do you want to use that as a comparison? Elden Ring? FF? New world?

 

[Kuthara]

Add TC/Siege
Remove Alt Servers
Stop punishing PvP (I mean actual PvP. Not griefing or noob farming GY)
Add more... just... more. Animals/Dungeons/Bosses/Materials