What must be in game for Persistent?

[Crom]

Server lines at least that is what players are calling them. Reminds me of the node lines in the old game. They cause lost pets lag and bugged animations pvp by one is really bad.

I really hope they put this very high on the list of priorities for the beta. Aside from being extremely annoying, it just gives the impression that the game is barely holding together, which is a terrible sensation. The whole idea of the game depends on a single server with a massive world, and these node lines bugging pets and dropping fps to 1 are just an awful hint that even this basic premise is still not guaranteed.

 

[Crom]

To add to this good suggestion, a more lively nature inhabited by all manner of creatures of different sizes and types. Small rodents scurrying through town streets, stray dogs (though I doubt we'll see cats), birds flying around, insects which can be caught and used for natural light or alchemy, and the like.

We have such a well put together world which is beautiful beyond belief. The only problem is that right now it just feels too... still... and inanimate.

Absolutely agree. If the game were to be released with the current state of the world, the impression that it is still under development would be overwhelming. I really think they have already done the most difficult part. It is just the details and the polishment now to create an ambiance that is worth a ready-to-release game.

 

[Crom]

Is there any word on when Persistent will go live?

None. Henrik has mentioned it may be "many months away", and if the list we are putting together here holds any resemblance with what SV has in mind, we definitely not seeing an EA or a Release anywhere before the end of the year. I think at this point, we are all hoping for any hint of how fast we can advance to the finish (start ) line. In this regard, I do think that the success of the next patch (now officially scheduled for the next week) will add a lot to the conversation of the Day 1 date.

 

[Crom]

Glad to see someone new to mo(i think u you are?) excited to see it become a great game.

I was honestly extremely excited (and I still am), when I learned that SV was betting on a MO2. I beta tested the original game, which by then, held many similar promises to this one. I started on Day 1, but as it became clear that most of those promises would never happen, I got demotivated and quit. Thus, it is good to be back to hype mode . I do believe in the vision and I know there is a huge market for a well-executed version of that vision. As I was ten years ago, I'm still concerned by a massive project being carried by such a small team, by the toxicity of the community, and by SV missing self-imposed deadlines. But I think, as Henrik has mentioned, that they are now in a much better position, with so much more experience, and, thankfully, much more reliable funding sources. Once again, I have my fingers crossed

 

[KermyWormy]

I was thinking about this today and I feel like SV really needs to obviously cover the basic stuff that's been mentioned, but they also need to add something meaningfully new to the world that players from MO1 haven't seen and done a thousand times already in the past. So much has been just a copy/paste to this point that as someone who has been around for quite some time, it's very easy to see MO2 as it's being developed as merely an engine upgrade on the first game with slower combat and a larger more empty world, and as time drags on it's harder to stay excited about it.

We need that wagon and multi player mounts, we need the "most animals can be mounts" to test or something...idk. we're definitely in a lull right now and it's hard to find something to login to do at the moment.

 

[Magestica]

I think they need to work much more on the new player experience, I know for a fact that MO2 is now much more visible to the mainstream crowd and in their consciousness now that several high-profile Youtubers have showcased the game to their massive audiences.

What we as old vets may feel as being more than sufficient for the new player experience, may simply not be enough, not even close. SV may need carefully guided and intuitive tutorials that don't involve a lot of reading.

Some of us might say, if these newcomers can't 'get it' even with the tutorial as it is, they're probably not cut out for the game anyway. But just remember, these are the same newcomers who are going to leave reviews on Steam (the platform on which MO2 is built around).

More than ever, we can't afford another 2015 Steam launch of MO1.

This is a wise reply and your quite correct IMO, and as a gamer who never played MO1. May I suggest that much of the MO1 player input is in no way progressive to StarVault, as they rant and rave about a game which without question and economically speaking was a total flop. What is good enough for them is NOT an indication of what is essentially good and quite clearly. The fact that you enjoyed the game is a PERSONAL preference not an objective overview that is made by experienced comparison.

Many 'new' players experiencing this game have played innumerate games on unreal engine, in other words its nothing really new to us, played for many years industry behemoths, led and/or were members of, some of the most successful guilds in the most successful games ever created - yet whenever a post or video is made that doesn't allude to excellence, gets flamed so toxically its laughable.

Ultimately if a person takes the time to make a comment or proffer an idea it is because they wish and feel the game would benefit, be it called MO2 or Auntie goes to Hollywood.

WE give OBJECTIVE overview as none MO1 gamers. MO1 vets are so insecure that they go on the defensive, the moment anyone makes an observation. Furthermore the addage, 'its only a stress test' does not account for the principle that even from the 'Stress Test gameplay' certain determinations can be made, including imagining that any particular experience was perfect and devoid of Stress Test bugs.

For example one might ask oneself - Say the mobs worked perfectly as this is only stress test and flawed, does one think that the encounter would be on a level that makes gameplay exciting ? Are they too easy - do they have more than one attack - are they fast and furious or slow and dull what are the plans if any.

Now we can go into a stream, ask Henrik a generic question such as - Can you tell us about how the mobs will perform once bugs have been eradicated. To which he could reply, 'Oh much better than in stress test (as if we dont know what one of these is) it will be awesome..', but current fallibility is already taken for granted as currently its farcical. As such any communication doesn't clarify any concerns that one might have.

OR, we could ask something like - Obviously this is stress test etc etc, but i'm seeing a distinct lack of attack variation in the zombies and the bandits and spiders, I feel the PVE experience is dull and repetitive, way too easy and very unimaginative, will there be an extensive overhaul of the PVE before release, that will address these areas ? BOOM - wait for the flaming and toxic attacks by the M)1 vets, almost as if I've killed their grandmothers or something.

I just watched a boss fight from MO1on YouTube and the Sator dungeon gameplay- you know the boss that spawned from the sealed volcano ? Both examples were verging on PATHETIC tbh, and I strongly suggest that SG adds more variation to attacks and overall somewhat harder. FOR Eg aggrooing a single bandit with a bow shot whilst that bandit is in a group of three in close proximity is silly, all three should aggro. Aggro a zombie general and at least 4 other zombies should be aggro'd at the same time. A Zombie general should have way faster hits, with more than one attack, say DOT acid puke, maybe cast a net which holds fast for 5 to 10 seconds, I mean the video of the Zombie general didn't do anything to advertise good PVE IMO in MO2, somewhat embarrassing actually.

Anyway back on topic -
For a GOOD persistent/EA launch all of Rankor's points above I think would suffice.
For a Basic persistent/EA launch I would suggest points - I - V - VI - VII would scrape it through as barely adequate.

 

[Kaemik]

Having heard the quality of sounds and voice acting in the game so far. I'm going to state again:

We should have a fully voiced tutorial. But rather than paying anyone, it should be a community competition where they give us lines, you submit audio, and maybe win some free sub time if your audio gets used.

Alrightish audio is better than no audio. Fairly sure I can record something that sounds at least as good as the merchant voice lines just using the microphone on my desk. And I could probably get some time in the sound studio at the local college if they were doing game time prizes.

 

[Crom]

This is a wise reply and your quite correct IMO, and as a gamer who never played MO1. May I suggest that much of the MO1 player input is in no way progressive to StarVault, as they rant and rave about a game which without question and economically speaking was a total flop. What is good enough for them is NOT an indication of what is essentially good and quite clearly. The fact that you enjoyed the game is a PERSONAL preference not an objective overview that is made by experienced comparison.

Many 'new' players experiencing this game have played innumerate games on unreal engine, in other words its nothing really new to us, played for many years industry behemoths, led and/or were members of, some of the most successful guilds in the most successful games ever created - yet whenever a post or video is made that doesn't allude to excellence, gets flamed so toxically its laughable.

Ultimately if a person takes the time to make a comment or proffer an idea it is because they wish and feel the game would benefit, be it called MO2 or Auntie goes to Hollywood.

WE give OBJECTIVE overview as none MO1 gamers. MO1 vets are so insecure that they go on the defensive, the moment anyone makes an observation. Furthermore the addage, 'its only a stress test' does not account for the principle that even from the 'Stress Test gameplay' certain determinations can be made, including imagining that any particular experience was perfect and devoid of Stress Test bugs.

For example one might ask oneself - Say the mobs worked perfectly as this is only stress test and flawed, does one think that the encounter would be on a level that makes gameplay exciting ? Are they too easy - do they have more than one attack - are they fast and furious or slow and dull what are the plans if any.

Now we can go into a stream, ask Henrik a generic question such as - Can you tell us about how the mobs will perform once bugs have been eradicated. To which he could reply, 'Oh much better than in stress test (as if we dont know what one of these is) it will be awesome..', but current fallibility is already taken for granted as currently its farcical. As such any communication doesn't clarify any concerns that one might have.

OR, we could ask something like - Obviously this is stress test etc etc, but i'm seeing a distinct lack of attack variation in the zombies and the bandits and spiders, I feel the PVE experience is dull and repetitive, way too easy and very unimaginative, will there be an extensive overhaul of the PVE before release, that will address these areas ? BOOM - wait for the flaming and toxic attacks by the M)1 vets, almost as if I've killed their grandmothers or something.

I just watched a boss fight from MO1on YouTube and the Sator dungeon gameplay- you know the boss that spawned from the sealed volcano ? Both examples were verging on PATHETIC tbh, and I strongly suggest that SG adds more variation to attacks and overall somewhat harder. FOR Eg aggrooing a single bandit with a bow shot whilst that bandit is in a group of three in close proximity is silly, all three should aggro. Aggro a zombie general and at least 4 other zombies should be aggro'd at the same time. A Zombie general should have way faster hits, with more than one attack, say DOT acid puke, maybe cast a net which holds fast for 5 to 10 seconds, I mean the video of the Zombie general didn't do anything to advertise good PVE IMO in MO2, somewhat embarrassing actually.

Anyway back on topic -
For a GOOD persistent/EA launch all of Rankor's points above I think would suffice.
For a Basic persistent/EA launch I would suggest points - I - V - VI - VII would scrape it through as barely adequate.

Ooooh, I really loved your comments here, and I couldn't agree more: One of the major challenges SV now faces is to convince a much broader audience that this is not Mortal Online, it is Mortal Online 2, which delivers muuuuch more than the original game. And there is so much involved here, as you have pointed out:
a) MO was a COMMERCIAL FAILURE. SV was a small, indie, virtually unknown company 10 years ago. SV is a small, indie, virtually unknown company today. That is not, however, the end of the world, as they managed to survive for the last decade and learned a lot along the day, which leads to the next point:
b) In what MO2 is concerned MO was a giant petri dish, a massive experiment. During that experiment, many conclusions were reached, conclusions about what worked and conclusions about what did NOT work. And fun fact: Both categories have some hardcore fans, which leads to...
c) A lot of features and ideas that have some passionate defenders will simply have to be removed or totally changed. Among those, I think it is safe to say: New player experience, overall PVE, more balanced Red & Blue system.
d) All put together, I think you made a great point when you said that, if this game is to be a success, some die-hard MO1 fans will be displeased, and, as it is expected, they will go down kicking and screaming...but at the end of the day, they will go down, before the game needs to evolve.
e) Finally, Henrik and his team now need to work hard as hell to figure out and deliver, a Hardcore, Sandbox, MMORPG experience that, while standing true to its values, is incredibly better and more attractive to a much broader audience. The target audience of MO2 does not want a theme park, does not want the gaming holding your hand all the time, and does not want anything easy and fast, but this does not mean we are willing to accept mediocre PVE, irrational and easy to exploit systems nor an unpolished experience. Making things hard is easy, making things hard while fun, fair, and engaging, is the true challenge here.

 

[Weathermore]

WE give OBJECTIVE overview as none MO1 gamers. MO1 vets are so insecure that they go on the defensive, the moment anyone makes an observation. Furthermore the addage, 'its only a stress test' does not account for the principle that even from the 'Stress Test gameplay' certain determinations can be made, including imagining that any particular experience was perfect and devoid of Stress Test bugs.

Look, this is exactly right and can't be argued. Starvault has to make the decision whether to actually take some of these small (and sometimes large) changes into account, or if the point of MO2 is to relaunch the game with better graphics, keeping only the population of MO1 (but each player has 4 subscriptions instead of 1.)

Anyone that is saying "it will be better at launch", or bringing up the topic that "Henrik says there is content they haven't released and they are waiting for persistance" has not been in game development long. Devs who say that there is a miracle patch waiting for day 2 of release are, for the most part, lying through their teeth. If it's not in the game RIGHT NOW, it will not be in the game if persistance goes live tomorrow.

I've said it before, but I'll reiterate it here: Starvault has a decision to make, whether they are making MO+ (for the current population) or if this is truly a sequel with significant changes. I'm not sure they have the dev team to do a lot of overhauls, so we must settle for overall QOL improvements and more objectives other than 'kill or be killed sandbox adventure.'

The game has to truly be pristine before launch. To subsidize income, the game could easily be marketed more and easier to access (NOT a donation on Starvault MO 1 store.) Make a brand new story, make the game easy to buy, and do a few marketing pushes. When the game hits Steam, that's the live game, and it will live and die by the state it is in on steam.

 

[Taurus]

Agree with everything that Magestica brought up. They've stated that they're focusing more on PvE in this sequel, and I really hope the devs take such advice to heart. It will be great by just implementing core mechanics from others RPGs and adding variation to the attacks, and group strategies when it comes to dungeons - like crowd control (stuns, disables, traps, disarming). It's possible such things would make PvP unbalanced, but then again, you could just implement it for PvE encounters only if need be. Would also love to see roaming world bosses, as it would also quickly become a mix of PvE and PvP.

Really hope they listen to Kaemik aswell, they shouldn't underestimate the quality a good community can achieve. Look at the development for the ambitious mod/game of Skywind (Morrowind set in the new engine), the voice acting is done solely by the community and it's really well done. Just have to set up a place for auditions and get the ball running, if successful it could be used to voice more than just the introduction.

I think there's a lot of inspiration to be found in the newly released game Valheim aswell, especially when it comes to the sandbox focus and general immersion of the game. Things like an unexplored map where the player himself fills in the gap with markers and notes. The possibility to craft simple things, like a small camp, tents, campfire, stove, and the benefits or drawbacks for using or not using these (like reduced strength/intelligence from not resting and eating). Moreover this could act as an early (or low budget in-game player) housing, where some group or individual set up camp in the forests and build some rudimentary walls out of nearby trees. Also tiered levels of PvE encounters would be interesting, where some areas are way more difficult than others and which might just be impassable for someone coming unprepared. Like encountering flying enemies while strolling about without a bow is just one easy example.

 

[Weathermore]

Agree with everything that Magestica brought up. They've stated that they're focusing more on PvE in this sequel, and I really hope the devs take such advice to heart. It will be great by just implementing core mechanics from others RPGs and adding variation to the attacks, and group strategies when it comes to dungeons - like crowd control (stuns, disables, traps, disarming). It's possible such things would make PvP unbalanced, but then again, you could just implement it for PvE encounters only if need be. Would also love to see roaming world bosses, as it would also quickly become a mix of PvE and PvP.

Really hope they listen to Kaemik aswell, they shouldn't underestimate the quality a good community can achieve. Look at the development for the ambitious mod/game of Skywind (Morrowind set in the new engine), the voice acting is done solely by the community and it's really well done. Just have to set up a place for auditions and get the ball running, if successful it could be used to voice more than just the introduction.

I think there's a lot of inspiration to be found in the newly released game Valheim aswell, especially when it comes to the sandbox focus and general immersion of the game. Things like an unexplored map where the player himself fills in the gap with markers and notes. The possibility to craft simple things, like a small camp, tents, campfire, stove, and the benefits or drawbacks for using or not using these (like reduced strength/intelligence from not resting and eating). Moreover this could act as an early (or low budget in-game player) housing, where some group or individual set up camp in the forests and build some rudimentary walls out of nearby trees. Also tiered levels of PvE encounters would be interesting, where some areas are way more difficult than others and which might just be impassable for someone coming unprepared. Like encountering flying enemies while strolling about without a bow is just one easy example.

I highly doubt, HIGHLY doubt, that crowd control mechanics will be implemented even just for PVE. Don't expect WOW type dungeon system anytime soon.

I agree that I think the Valheim map should be brought to this game, many other disagree as can be seen in the forum thread I made about it. But a Valheim type map with ONLY custom markers would make the barrier to entry as a new player much lower, and would not break the game due to the existence of mortal online map.

 

[Dominatrixx]

Working economy is the fisrt thing the game should have to be called persistent.

 

[Taurus]

I highly doubt, HIGHLY doubt, that crowd control mechanics will be implemented even just for PVE. Don't expect WOW type dungeon system anytime soon.

I agree that I think the Valheim map should be brought to this game, many other disagree as can be seen in the forum thread I made about it. But a Valheim type map with ONLY custom markers would make the barrier to entry as a new player much lower, and would not break the game due to the existence of mortal online map.

Doesn't make any sense not to have a map. There's books in-game, meaning the technology to make maps are already in the world, and there's a map online for everyone to just Alt-Tab to. It just makes things frustrating, not hard.

 

[Solairerection]

Doesn't make any sense not to have a map. There's books in-game, meaning the technology to make maps are already in the world, and there's a map online for everyone to just Alt-Tab to. It just makes things frustrating, not hard.

They can't stop what is happening outside of the game. There is no global chat either and everything is supposed to be communicated locally, but it won't stop players from using chatrooms outside of the game. Doesn't mean the developers should cave in from their beliefs just because players took it upon themselves to create these options.

 

[Taurus]

They can't stop what is happening outside of the game. There is no global chat either and everything is supposed to be communicated locally, but it won't stop players from using chatrooms outside of the game. Doesn't mean the developers should cave in from their beliefs just because players took it upon themselves to create these options.

Sure, it just doesn't make any sense. If you have a fantasy world with books and maps already (haven), then why restrict that when it really doesn't have any effect other than being a pain in the ass? There's no upside, it doesn't make exploring more fun or hard, just tedious and annoying.

 

[Solairerection]

Sure, it just doesn't make any sense. If you have a fantasy world with books and maps already (haven), then why restrict that when it really doesn't have any effect other than being a pain in the ass? There's no upside, it doesn't make exploring more fun or hard, just tedious and annoying.

I don't think they should have added a map for Haven to begin with. It does encourage learning your surroundings and navigating using landmarks, rather than hammering 'M' every 5 minutes because you got lost. If you are new and want to find your way around I suggest you take your time to properly explore by actually moving your character around.

They have mentioned Cartography as a playerskill though, so maybe we will see player-made maps eventually.

 

[Xunila]

There is the guild chat as kind of global chat. But guilds are using Discord or other voice com software anyway, so the guild chat could be removed to get rid of all global chats. And I'm glad to live without global spam or shit talk chat. The help chat is bad enough.