What are your Opinions about Combat healing ? How much should a mage be able to heal with greater Heal ?

[Anabolic Man]

We have Claidgifts that allow Footfighters to heal. The Claid Gift on the Thursar and on the Ogmir. The Hybrid can cast smaller heals.
Mages can now wear shields. They have no equipmentweight and they will be able to use them to pushback Players.

A bit less healing would balance the teams a bit more. Atm there is no magic, and you can focus a good Player prety well. Emagine you have a very good Vateran Player in the opposite Team. He can destoy several people, and you want to focus him out. If a team have very good players, and very good healers, it make it very hard to focus those Veteran Footfighters and finish them off, becuase the healers will always prioritize the best Players.
That will make very good teams even stronger.
I fear that some teams would then dominate others much more significantly

You have to overextend to kill the most dangerous players and a healer will keep them alive, if he go back before he lost 40-50 %.
That's the case now, but healer will make it even easier for the good players to survive the fight.

Now the Characters have healing abilitys, and later on the players will use Potions aswell. I think the time to kill could get too long. I think the power of greater heal should be reduced, or the weapons in general should deal more damage to balance that.
A greater heal should not heal much more as a small heal, or even be removed. At least that´s my opinion. It could heal heal as much as a small heal + some healing over time. Healing could be more on selfheal as if you heal another player.

Shields need some equipemt weight ! I like the idea, that a haybrid can go out of combat mode and cast.
It doesn't bother me if a mage draws a torch and tries to block with it, but a shield with the pushback effect on a roof would be op. How you want to chase rooftop mages ?



What are your opinions ? I started a poll. Feed free to vote and
write your opinions.

 

[Anabolic Man]

Imagine such a good mage, that use the rooftops to protect him, in a combination with a shield, to push back players from the roof.

 

[Evelyn]

Wait and see. Don't prematurely nerf something that isn't in the game yet. Furthermore, nerfing an entire class seems like the wrong play.

It should be common sense to focus the mage first if you want the squad to crumble. Bad mages are going to die immediately (in be4 I die immediately).

 

[Anabolic Man]

Is just a basic brainstorming thread. But to be honest i kinda enjoy how the fights are now. I had much fun.


With a few builds you know in advance that they were a bit too strong in MO1. This included Mounted Combat, the Dominator with Nitrequeen/Nitre Guardians, especially when they were hidden under water. Players could be pulled down from the mountain with a Nirequeen. The Mage was also quite strong, becuase of the very strong heals, but it sucked that he could not defend himself. Now he can use a torch or weapon to block. I like that, but a shield would be op.

In addition, I think it would be cool if lightning damage did more damage to players in metal armor. Fire more damage to players in cloth armor.
That would lead to the player not wanting to walk around in full metal armor.
Then there would always be a few weakpoints that you can aim for in a fight with your weapon.

 

[Evelyn]

There will be challenge I think in keeping Corrupt up on the enemies to try to interrupt their healing, but also heal and cleanse your own side, and also not get caught and stickied by melee or headshot by archers. Playing a healer in group pvp is stressful as hell. Highest value target and easiest to kill.

 

[Anabolic Man]

That´s why i wrote
Greater heal could heal as much as a small heal + some healing over time, if you cast it on another Player. Healing could be more on selfheal.

 

[Evelyn]

I dunno...I get that it will make some races much harder to kill, I'm just against nerfing something that has to be aimed and cast on the correct player (not healing an enemy lmao) prematurely. We'll have to see how the game balances out. Right now the game is very imbalanced, people in full steel armor with 200 HP can't be bursted down. That will change with focused fire from magic.

To give you an example, the pvp team I played with in another game had only 2 mages. it was our job to coordinate a setup and burst kill on the high HP plate armor warriors and paladins that otherwise could not be dps'd down faster than they could be healed. Outplaying healing requires skill and coordination, which ideally should raise the skillcap in this game above where it is now.

 

[Anachroniser]

Wait and see. Don't prematurely nerf something that isn't in the game yet. Furthermore, nerfing an entire class seems like the wrong play.

It should be common sense to focus the mage first if you want the squad to crumble. Bad mages are going to die immediately (in be4 I die immediately).

I agree that we should withhold judgement on magic but I still think the poll is relevant for a comparison to mo1. I personally found pvp rather annoying as the limit to how much a person could be healed per second was entirely dependent on the number of mages healing. This meant that a low hp player would go from <10% to full hp in less than a second. I personally do not think that this is excellent game design as it gets into the territory of being oneshot or being immortal. I like the suggestion of healing over time to be more common with the HoT buff not stacking as that creates a simple and straightforward method of limiting healing. Alternatively there could be a separate limit where if you get healed for over 300% of your health pool over 15 seconds, you get reduced healing for a bit. I see what this is trying to address but also think that the solution to the excessive burst healing is not nerfing their heals but nerfing the potential to repeatedly heal the same player.

 

[Anabolic Man]

"I see what this is trying to address but also think that the solution to the excessive burst healing is not nerfing their heals but nerfing the potential to repeatedly heal the same player. "

That's exactly the point !

 

[ThaBadMan]

Yes imo less healing in general all around.

 

[Neftan]

People seem to be thinking there will be literally no drawbacks to having weapons or a shield equipped as a mage or hybrid.

That makes literally no sense from a gameplay perspective. Every mage always having a shield makes them extemely annoying and adds a ton of free protection at no real cost. Can someone say equipment hit.. ?

Maybe it will be fine. However, I imagine that there will be some sort of a nerf to cast speed for example, when you have anything equipped in your hand slots.

That means that mages running with shields will not be as efficient at the trade off of being tankier.

In the end, we just have wait and see, as @Evelyn said above.

 

[Atr3au]

Magic not out 24 hours and we already calls for nerfs?

 

[Anabolic Man]

I played a lot of MO1. This magicsystem seems to be the same. But it will be playtested for sure.

 

[Kaemik]

No. You have to stand still to charge up a heal. You're wearing very light armor if you intend to have the mana for lots of healing. And you actually have to land your heals unlike prettymuch every other MMO.

If you think healers are OP, run like one archer with a good longbow and tell them to focus the healer. Problem solved.

Make healing any weaker and you may as well remove it. It's powerful because leaves you vulnerable and it isn't easy. It's not underpowered but if the healing output on heals you land wasn't very good then it would be.

You think healers are bad in this game? In Crowfall which is a soft-aim game, I can drop AoE heals on what is arguably the tankiest build in the game that my allies can just stand in to top off. And when you focus me I lift my shield to turn your damage into healing for myself and all nearby allies (And I can hold that shield up a long time). And that's just two abilities of the entire kit. They managed to make that class fairly balanced. Fairly sure guys can deal with the fragile little things that are MO2 healers with their single target heavy-aim heals.

 

[Anachroniser]

No. You have to stand still to charge up a heal. You're wearing very light armor if you intend to have the mana for lots of healing. And you actually have to land your heals unlike prettymuch every MMO.

If you think healers are OP, run like one archer with a good longbow and tell them to focus the healer. Problem solved.

Make healing any weaker and you may as well remove it. It's powerful because leaves you vulnerable and it isn't easy.

The issue is that 3 mages with calamine and water, totalling about 3g in gear costs can make themselves vulnerable to make the person in 1000g of ogh just about unkillable. While your archer solution does kinda work what actually happens is that the mage you shoot just gets healed by the other mages faster than you can damage them as your target runs to hide behind a tree. You can also charge your greater heal while in cover or behind a rock then pop out for a half second to get your heal off. The risk for a mage to heal is very low, both in terms of the gear risked and the actual chance of death. Making it so that a single person gets diminishing returns from heals would not invalidate healing at all, it would just make it possible to actually kill somebody being healed.

 

[Teknique]

I think there is a lot of uncertainty here. It was really hard to kill people BEFORE magic in mo 2

 

[Kaemik]

The issue is that 3 mages with calamine and water, totalling about 3g in gear costs can make themselves vulnerable to make the person in 1000g of ogh just about unkillable. While your archer solution does kinda work what actually happens is that the mage you shoot just gets healed by the other mages faster than you can damage them as your target runs to hide behind a tree. You can also charge your greater heal while in cover or behind a rock then pop out for a half second to get your heal off. The risk for a mage to heal is very low, both in terms of the gear risked and the actual chance of death. Making it so that a single person gets diminishing returns from heals would not invalidate healing at all, it would just make it possible to actually kill somebody being healed.

Ok, then use more than one archer. You're talking 200 HP max with crap protection on any mage build. And that's a build that could never outrun a melee on foot. Much lower for viable footmages. My veela hits for 30s against people in 15-16kg armor. Against a bunch of soft mages, 3-5 of you should be able to just alpha strike them when they go to cast. Can't heal through that.

And moderately good archer gear isn't all that expensive. Not sure what optimized scale armor with a spongewood/dcrep bow will run but I know there are many builds that are nearly as effective using much cheaper mats that will cut through the mages like butter if they aren't at least wearing keeled scales.

If 3 archers can't utterly dominate your 3 healers they are doing something very wrong.

 

[Valoran]

People seem to be thinking there will be literally no drawbacks to having weapons or a shield equipped as a mage or hybrid.

That makes literally no sense from a gameplay perspective. Every mage always having a shield makes them extemely annoying and adds a ton of free protection at no real cost. Can someone say equipment hit.. ?

Maybe it will be fine. However, I imagine that there will be some sort of a nerf to cast speed for example, when you have anything equipped in your hand slots.

That means that mages running with shields will not be as efficient at the trade off of being tankier.

In the end, we just have wait and see, as @Evelyn said above.

Don't forget that having a weapon / shield equipped means you can't cast magic while in combat mode, so if you are carrying a weapon or shield you aren't running full speed while casting.

In order to run in combat mode and cast magic you'll have to have empty hands.

 

[Kaemik]

Unless it got changed overnight, you actually auto-stow your weapon as you charge/cast and auto-draw it as you finish each action when you try to cast in combat mode. This isn't without downsides though. I haven't tested to confirm yet but it feels like the draw/stow timers slow your casting down considerably. If so this means you likely want to manually stow the weapon anyway when you are casting.

 

[Anabolic Man]

They should make it so, that you auto-stow your weapon to cast a spell, but that you have manually draw your weapon if you have finished your cast.