Turn Cap Yes or No?

[Dracu]

After looking at the current version (using low sensitivity where it somewhat works)
And looking at videos from other games like Bannerlord, Chivalry and Mordhau.

And well to put it blantly, MO2 has way more humane spins then the games above.

Tbh this whole Turncap stuff is not as nice as i would have imagined, it affects groupfights in a negative way just to fix issues we have pretty much nearly exclusive have in duells.
I rather have some ballerina spins in duells then a turncap that affects stabs and overheads in teamfights.
This game is about teamfights and they should feel good.

I personally am for just removing it all together and not touching it again.

!!!!
I would like to use this chance to take a moment and address that i was wrong about turn caps, i though i wanted them but i really dont xD

Bannerlord:

Mordhau:

Chivalry:

 

[Teknique]

Now that everyone is screen locked and struggling I kinda like it man.
Sit there and let teknique bash you in the face online. What’s not to like?

 

[Dracu]

Now that everyone is screen locked and struggling I kinda like it man.
Sit there and let teknique bash you in the face online. What’s not to like?

unleash the Teknique

 

[Waalan]

I vote no because like draculina points out, this issue is almost exclusive to duels, and the turncap seems to affect team fights in a negative way.

We should balance the game primarily around team fights.

 

[PatWins]

Doesn't seem to be working properly at the moment at all. I'd like to see it reworked once or twice. I've heard a couple good suggestions so far from the community.

1. Cap only applies to y-axis to avoid glitchy up and down camera movements
2. Turn cap builds up after a certain distance traveled by the camera so that standard turns and flicks are not punished

If it still feels bad then yeah I think we have successfully ruled out turn caps being a practical solution and should consider removal.

 

[Rhias]

It also effects duels in a negative ways.
Enemy runs towars you and hits you into the front, and continues running (so on the left or right side past you). In able to hit the parry on him you need to turn 180. And turn cap hits...

 

[Steinerr]

Either this gets removed or it gets tweaked into a better solution that does NOT affect group fighting.


I'm fine with both.

 

[Teknique]

Honestly this has been the most skill based mo has ever been hahaha

 

[Eldarwen]

Big problem is only in duels. I have not really seen that spin shit in teamfights. But if turncap stays on it need to change give spin to the player=).

 

[Kobalt]

Ballerina spins are a problem in general, you have to think at a scale. Right now they're a problem in duels because the population is small and the game loop is extremely limited, however what happens when they expand the game loop and you find yourself in a multitude of smaller scale fights more frequently with people abusing it.

Saying that it;s fine because it only effects scenario A but is not noticeable in Scenario B (keep in mind, it's not noticeable, but it still happening) is still a huge issue, especially when Scenario A is likely to happen quite often. Ask yourself how often a 1v1 encounter will happen in the open world and the answer should be simple as to whether or not it needs to be fixed.

Now, was turn caps implemented correctly? Hell no, they need work. Should there be no mechanic in place to deal with ballerina spinning? Absolute not, the ballerina spinning has got to go.

 

[Rhias]

Ballerina spins are a problem in general, you have to think at a scale. Right now they're a problem in duels because the population is small and the game loop is extremely limited, however what happens when they expand the game loop and you find yourself in a multitude of smaller scale fights more frequently with people abusing it.

Saying that it;s fine because it only effects scenario A but is not noticeable in Scenario B (keep in mind, it's not noticeable, but it still happening) is still a huge issue, especially when Scenario A is likely to happen quite often. Ask yourself how often a 1v1 encounter will happen in the open world and the answer should be simple as to whether or not it needs to be fixed.

Now, was turn caps implemented correctly? Hell no, they need work. Should there be no mechanic in place to deal with ballerina spinning? Absolute not, the ballerina spinning has got to go.

In team fights you don't want to expose your back to the enemys, cause you want to see what the enemys do, or they will collapse on you.
In duels this does not matter because it's just a single enemy and in worst case you're trading a hit.

And in team fights there is usually always a enemy who currently does not look and you where you can land a hit without doing some spins. So it's not really worth the effort there.

 

[Teknique]

Ballerina spins are a problem in general, you have to think at a scale. Right now they're a problem in duels because the population is small and the game loop is extremely limited, however what happens when they expand the game loop and you find yourself in a multitude of smaller scale fights more frequently with people abusing it.

Saying that it;s fine because it only effects scenario A but is not noticeable in Scenario B (keep in mind, it's not noticeable, but it still happening) is still a huge issue, especially when Scenario A is likely to happen quite often. Ask yourself how often a 1v1 encounter will happen in the open world and the answer should be simple as to whether or not it needs to be fixed.

Now, was turn caps implemented correctly? Hell no, they need work. Should there be no mechanic in place to deal with ballerina spinning? Absolute not, the ballerina spinning has got to go.

Do you have any MO 1 or MO 2 content that we can watch to cross reference against the authoritative statements that you're making?

 

[Eldrath]

Do you have any MO 1 or MO 2 content that we can watch to cross reference against the authoritative statements that you're making?

So, you don´t think 1 on 1 encouters happened in MO1? Please provide proof of that not happening.

 

[ElPerro]

Ballerina spins are a problem in general, you have to think at a scale. Right now they're a problem in duels because the population is small and the game loop is extremely limited, however what happens when they expand the game loop and you find yourself in a multitude of smaller scale fights more frequently with people abusing it.

Saying that it;s fine because it only effects scenario A but is not noticeable in Scenario B (keep in mind, it's not noticeable, but it still happening) is still a huge issue, especially when Scenario A is likely to happen quite often. Ask yourself how often a 1v1 encounter will happen in the open world and the answer should be simple as to whether or not it needs to be fixed.

Now, was turn caps implemented correctly? Hell no, they need work. Should there be no mechanic in place to deal with ballerina spinning? Absolute not, the ballerina spinning has got to go.

A turn cap is just not the answer, if you implement it strict enough to really shut down even 180 spins which can still confuse other players then you essentially break all the combat from duels to group fights. You can try it right now, go put sens a bit low like 30 and try playing like that, I guarantee is gonna feel like dog shit.

A better way IMO is desyncing the first person animations with what the other player sees, so limiting those back breaking animations that really make spinning look silly. This wasnt an issue in MO1 since your torso didnt move there

 

[Eldrath]

A turn cap is just not the answer, if you implement it strict enough to really shut down even 180 spins which can still confuse other players then you essentially break all the combat from duels to group fights. You can try it right now, go put sens a bit low like 30 and try playing like that, I guarantee is gonna feel like dog shit.

A better way IMO is desyncing the first person animations with what the other player sees, so limiting those back breaking animations that really make spinning look silly. This wasnt an issue in MO1 since your torso didnt move there

Yeah, I think this might be a better solution. At least lowering the possible back breaking animation to say 30° might do the trick.

I do miss other options in the poll. Personally I will reserve my judgement till a functioning limit is patched in.

 

[Rolufe]

Yeah, I think this might be a better solution. At least lowering the possible back breaking animation to say 30° might do the trick.

I do miss other options in the poll. Personally I will reserve my judgement till a functioning limit is patched in.

I agree with this. Would be nice if they lowered the back movement to about 30% and increased head tilt instead. so the character still looks in the direction(withing the limits of the armor).

Still think we need something to counter the spinning, but i dont see anything that wouldnt mess with combat overall as you still need a decent speed to land your hits. Specially since its so hard with the way people pop around making it very hard to hit people. Either they are just out of range or they are up in your face making you arm/handle hit them more often that hitting with the blade. I dunno if this is just me being bad at the game or not.

 

[Teknique]

So, you don´t think 1 on 1 encouters happened in MO1? Please provide proof of that not happening.

Not in a significant enough frequency to justify shitting on archery, magic, group fights, being able to fucking look around and play the game.
Forgive me, you won’t understand what I must do. I know now it’s the forum shitters that will stand in the way of a good game

 

[Eldrath]

Not in a significant enough frequency to justify shitting on archery, magic, group fights, being able to fucking look around and play the game.
Forgive me, you won’t understand what I must do. I know now it’s the forum shitters that will stand in the way of a good game

Interesting how you can judge the effect of a turn limit on all these not yet implemented systems. If anything you are a forum shitter, or as I´d call it a try hard.

 

[Rolufe]

Interesting how you can judge the effect of a turn limit on all these not yet implemented systems. If anything you are a forum shitter, or as I´d call it a try hard.

I think he uses a little foresight. For example If your a mage, you wanna be able to flick pin point to the target you wanna cast on, like a machine. With a turn cap it might take a noticeable time before you land your aim on the target. This might even make it harder to land your spell. Same applies to any combat that requires your character turning.

Edit: Turn rates only really worked well in 3rd person games.
I also just changed my own mind on the turn cap explaining this here xD

 

[Kobalt]

I think he uses a little foresight. For example If your a mage, you wanna be able to flick pin point to the target you wanna cast on, like a machine. With a turn cap it might take a noticeable time before you land your aim on the target. This might even make it harder to land your spell. Same applies to any combat that requires your character turning.

Edit: Turn rates only really worked well in 3rd person games.
I also just changed my own mind on the turn cap explaining this here xD

Turn rates will definitely effect those other elements of the game, but it's also up to the developers to find a good balance. Development is all about iteration. This first implementation might not be that great, but that's why you keep tinkering with it. Henrik is shooting for a larger community, not just a community with a dozen or so veterans. Most the veterans have moved to other things or other games as well, so counting on creating a game for just a small demography of people is naive. I'm almost sure MO2 will piss old players off because it's not a carbon copy jank fest that of MO1, but maybe if they can fix most of the broken stuff in MO1 they attract newer players.