Transportation Needs Addressing. A Few Simple Fixes

[Kaemik]

There are a couple massive issues. With transportation right now:

1. A single horse ridden by each player, each with controlled riding, is a requirement to cross the map in a reasonable time. I'd go so far as to as controlled riding is a mandatory skill on everyone's main character for the sake of enjoying the game. Even though on combat optimized characters for people with alts I discourage any mounted skills with the current state of mounted combat.

Controlled riding shouldn't be a mandatory skill for people with 1 character. You should have the option to drop it entirely and still enjoy the majority of the game's content.

2. It super tedious. In Darkfall and Atlas I remember going trips with friends and they were a lot more fun because you could tab out to change the music, be looking things up etc. You didn't have to be in-game navigating the whole time. The captain did. And there were always plenty of people willing to steer the ship. But you didn't have to have the whole crew watching the game constantly. Which was great because people have different attention spans and not everyone enjoys that.

I've actually heard multiple people say the reason they quit MO2 is because they hate riding from town to town so much. This is a serious issue that requires addressing.

3. When you dismount your mount and engage in foot combat, it's likely to die. While a mount being ridden or trailing a mounted player is difficult to kill.

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Fix 1:

Every horse except can now seat 2 players. Every molva 2-3. No speed penalty.

You've just halved the number of players who need controlled riding and enabled half of them to tab out until they hear "contact" in discord with this simple change.

Fix 2:

New multiseater mounts. Sky is the limit here. But just 1-3 new options that have a lot more seats and can still move around the map quickly really increase the impact over what point 1 can offer.

My personal recommendation would be a long fairly short creature like a weasel or lizard made large enough for 1 rider and 5 passengers down each side of it's back like an Ark diplodocus. This should be at least as fast as a steppe going forward with good stamina, and good health but fairly bad turning, not amazing armor options, a big hitbox, and no utility as a combat pet. The beast mastery options should offer some good AoE group buffs though.

The meta for these builds would generally be for one rider to stay on them will all the troops on their back disembark for the actual fight as footies. Then the player riding them either retreats or rides around giving support to their allied footies. Potentially even picking up and moving forces to new locations midfight in some scenarios. Hence why AoE buffs for allies really work well as beast mastery options for creatures like this.

Fix 3:

Caravan Leader

New secondary with the parents of controlled riding and beast mastery. Caravan leader is an AoE buff the leader puts out. Allies within said buff can toggle into caravan stance which raises their mount speed and stam gain to that of a steppe in medium armor with 100 controlled riding regardless of mount, armor, and controlled riding skill. However, it temp caps their stam at 50% and if anyone in the group takes damage from a player the whole group is locked out of this stance for 2 minutes.

Fix 4:

You can ride an allies mounts that are following it if they toggle "enable allies and party members to ride my pets". Untoggling this boots everyone on your pets off of them (incase someone is being a griefy tard).

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Summary: I'm sure anyone can see how these 4 fixes together entirely address the original 2 issues. Caravan leader alone would make it very unnecessary to have controlled riding if you do not primary a mounted combat build. Multipassenger mounts and riding other players pets very well address point 3.

It would change the meta of MO2 so that you only need controlled riding if you actually want to be a mounted combat build, and footies who want to dismount to fight can. Removing a lot of tediousness from the game, and allowing mounted builds to be balanced around actual combat power instead of convenience factor. At the same time it opens up a troop transport / support role that would have a lot of appeal to some players.

And the great part is. All of these work alone. And only fix 2 requires new assets. There are some really simple suggestions in there that could start addressing the transportation issue today with no new assets.

 

[Hodo]

First... Controlled Riding isnt needed. You can easily get from point A to point B without controlled riding.

Second, most people who quit because of having to ride for 30min most likely would have quit anyway. They wanted instant gratification and thus went to Dark and Darker, or back to what ever themepark they came from.

Third... yes multiple rider mounts would be nice, but what would be the point? It sounds good on paper, but in the sad reality of online gaming, most people DONT want to rely on someone else to do something so they will do it themselves.

 

[Jatix]

What I would like, is a really shitty summonable mount that has no viable use in PVP so that it wouldn't be op. It could be slower than a horse, have 50 hp, and you cant attack from it for all I care. It irritates me when I'm anywhere without a mount, because this game was completely designed to have a mount for all travel. But like if I go to Mk sewers I'm, not bringing a mount. Then I just get to walk my ass back to town for 10 mins when it would take 5 or less with a mount. Just un needed down time.

First... Controlled Riding isnt needed. You can easily get from point A to point B without controlled riding.

Second, most people who quit because of having to ride for 30min most likely would have quit anyway. They wanted instant gratification and thus went to Dark and Darker, or back to what ever themepark they came from.

Third... yes multiple rider mounts would be nice, but what would be the point? It sounds good on paper, but in the sad reality of online gaming, most people DONT want to rely on someone else to do something so they will do it themselves.

1- If your friend has ridign skills and you dont they have to go slower so you dont get dusted. So you need to have riding skills.

2- I want to play the game, not have a virtual loading screen, but one that I still have to pay attention instead of tabbing out like every other games loading screens. Travel is just a pointless time sink. I'm playing the game to have fun, not so I can RP driving to walmart but without needing to buy gas.

3-anyone who plays with friends would be benefitted. You cant do everything by yourself in MO2 without multi subs anyway.

 

[Hodo]

What I would like, is a really shitty summonable mount that has no viable use in PVP so that it wouldn't be op. It could be slower than a horse, have 50 hp, and you cant attack from it for all I care. It irritates me when I'm anywhere without a mount, because this game was completely designed to have a mount for all travel. But like if I go to Mk sewers I'm, not bringing a mount. Then I just get to walk my ass back to town for 10 mins when it would take 5 or less with a mount. Just un needed down time.

1- If your friend has ridign skills and you dont they have to go slower so you dont get dusted. So you need to have riding skills.

2- I want to play the game, not have a virtual loading screen, but one that I still have to pay attention instead of tabbing out like every other games loading screens. Travel is just a pointless time sink. I'm playing the game to have fun, not so I can RP driving to walmart but without needing to buy gas.

3-anyone who plays with friends would be benefitted. You cant do everything by yourself in MO2 without multi subs anyway.

I can tell you dont play any milsim games. I mean I have flown a 3 hour sortie in DCS and shot absolutely NO ONE. And other times I have flown for ten minutes and been in some of the hairiest furballs in my life. That is the nature of large open world games. To quote an old saying "its hours of boredom broken up by minutes of shear terror." - description of air combat during WWII.

It is like that in this game. I can ride around for hours and see absolutely no one. But then randomly I run into a person, or two, and is it a fight or are they peaceful. Never know.

Most people until this patch dont leave the confines of the towns, let alone leave sight of the towns. Hell there are people who have played since launch who started in Fabernum and never been further than Tindrem or Morin Khur.

 

[Kaemik]

First... Controlled Riding isnt needed. You can easily get from point A to point B without controlled riding.

Second, most people who quit because of having to ride for 30min most likely would have quit anyway. They wanted instant gratification and thus went to Dark and Darker, or back to what ever themepark they came from.

Third... yes multiple rider mounts would be nice, but what would be the point? It sounds good on paper, but in the sad reality of online gaming, most people DONT want to rely on someone else to do something so they will do it themselves.

You can technically get there with 10 dex on foot as well. For groups that don’t live out of a single account though, 100 controlled riding is basically a hard requirement to play for at least one account. 30 minutes is a very short estimate on average travel times from town to town and even that builds up into something big if you play much and move around much.

The quitting is honestly justified when people get tired of traveling 2-3 hours multiple times a week. It’s not going to dissuade the most die hards but it a justifiable reasons to quit. And even most die hards will be having more fun if travel is simplified a bit.

I think these changes would have a massive and immediately noticeable positive effect on the enjoyablity of the game. But suppose I am wrong. What would they hurt?

One big thing is I’d like to see the convenience factor of taking mounted combat builds disappear so most people take them purely based on their merits and enjoyablilty as a combat role. When they essentially dissappear from serious PvP groups other than people who take the caravan leader role I think that will be a good starting point to making the enhancements those roles desperately need.

 

[Hodo]

You can technically get there with 10 dex on foot as well. For groups that don’t live out of a single account though, 100 controlled riding is basically a hard requirement to play for at least one account. 30 minutes is a very short estimate on average travel times from town to town and even that builds up into something big if you play much and move around much.

The quitting is honestly justified when people get tired of traveling 2-3 hours multiple times a week. It’s not going to dissuade the most die hards but it a justifiable reasons to quit. And even most die hards will be having more fun if travel is simplified a bit.

I think these changes would have a massive and immediately noticeable positive effect on the enjoyablity of the game. But suppose I am wrong. What would they hurt?

One big thing is I’d like to see the convenience factor of taking mounted combat builds disappear so most people take them purely based on their merits and enjoyablilty as a combat role. When they essentially dissappear from serious PvP groups other than people who take the caravan leader role I think that will be a good starting point to making the enhancements those roles desperately need.

I have rode a steppe horse from Meduli to Bakti in about 35min. Yes I timed it.

I have also rode from Bakti to Tindrem in 45min.

From Meduli to the Necro dungeon in 48min.

From the west coast to the east coast in 1hr 25min.

 

[Jatix]

I can tell you dont play any milsim games. I mean I have flown a 3 hour sortie in DCS and shot absolutely NO ONE. And other times I have flown for ten minutes and been in some of the hairiest furballs in my life. That is the nature of large open world games. To quote an old saying "its hours of boredom broken up by minutes of shear terror." - description of air combat during WWII.

It is like that in this game. I can ride around for hours and see absolutely no one. But then randomly I run into a person, or two, and is it a fight or are they peaceful. Never know.

Most people until this patch dont leave the confines of the towns, let alone leave sight of the towns. Hell there are people who have played since launch who started in Fabernum and never been further than Tindrem or Morin Khur.

I get that having it not 24/7 excitement makes events feel more meaningful when they do happen. but they could still have that with half the down time. Especially s the pop gets lower, interactions happen less and less. I feel like having less downtime would keep more people playing.

I have rode a steppe horse from Meduli to Bakti in about 35min. Yes I timed it.

I have also rode from Bakti to Tindrem in 45min.

From Meduli to the Necro dungeon in 48min.

From the west coast to the east coast in 1hr 25min.

To me the fine print is you dont just ride for 30 mins. Thats usually just one way. like if someone goes to the mino cave. They still get to ride back after. So a 30 min ride becomes an hour of literally nothing. If they only had a couple hours to play, I'm not sure why they would pick MO2. And thats a lot of people that could have otherwise enjoyed this game. And games like this need players to cause interactions, so having less players because its a riding sim isnt good.

 

[Kaemik]

I have rode a steppe horse from Meduli to Bakti in about 35min. Yes I timed it.

I have also rode from Bakti to Tindrem in 45min.

From Meduli to the Necro dungeon in 48min.

From the west coast to the east coast in 1hr 25min.

Bear in mind these proposed changes are not targeted at experienced players with 100 swift riding on a desert with light armor so much as they are the newer or average player on a steppe or worse with some level of armor and less detailed terrain knowledge.

Supposing those conditions, how long do you figure a trip from Fabernum to Jungle Camp might take? Probably at least an hour in the jungle alone if they aren't used to navigating down there. And then they get into JC and immediately get ganked.

These are the types of experiences that turn players away from MO2 entirely. "I farmed walkers a whole day to get the money for ACC, it took 2 hours to get there, and then I got killed by jerks sitting there killing anyone who came through." There are multiple ways we can attack those kinds of sources of frustration. And less tedium in crossing the map is one of the less controversial options.

 

[Kaemik]

I get that having it not 24/7 excitement makes events feel more meaningful when they do happen. but they could still have that with half the down time. Especially s the pop gets lower, interactions happen less and less. I feel like having less downtime would keep more people playing.

Well and I'd bear in mind these changes don't propose anything that would significantly reduce travel time, especially for forces that currently require 100 controlled riding to go on group roams.

But the thing is for instance 2 hours of sailing in Atlas, Wurm Online, or Darkfall are more positive memories than roaming in MO2. During those trips it was easier to step away and grab a drink. Tab out do something in another window. Etc. In MO2 everyone is driving their own horse which means everyone needs to be tabbed in and focused 97% of the time. And when they aren't, that's when you get roam members who divert off from the main group and slow everyone down.

Group roams in MO2 are just not as positive of an experience as they are in games where large portions of the group can just chill and enjoy the ride.

"Well this is MO2. It's hardcore full loot PvP, you can't just..." so are all 3 examples I gave above depending on the server. And believe me I've tabbed out plenty of times while a passenger on a ship or wagon in Darkfall and Atlas/WO PvP servers and been absolutely fine. Usually you're going to get a grace period between when contact gets called an when you need to fight. You don't need the whole force tabbed in and steering.

 

[Highlander]

just put donkeys spawn everywhere? u cant tame in mid combat anyway, but at least if ur mount dies u dont have to suicide and give stuff to your guild mates..wtf

 

[Hodo]

Bear in mind these proposed changes are not targeted at experienced players with 100 swift riding on a desert with light armor so much as they are the newer or average player on a steppe or worse with some level of armor and less detailed terrain knowledge.

Supposing those conditions, how long do you figure a trip from Fabernum to Jungle Camp might take? Probably at least an hour in the jungle alone if they aren't used to navigating down there. And then they get into JC and immediately get ganked.

These are the types of experiences that turn players away from MO2 entirely. "I farmed walkers a whole day to get the money for ACC, it took 2 hours to get there, and then I got killed by jerks sitting there killing anyone who came through." There are multiple ways we can attack those kinds of sources of frustration. And less tedium in crossing the map is one of the less controversial options.

I see what you are saying, but your example at the end is a common problem in gaming in general. People want to do everything themselves. Instead of saying "I farmed walkers a whole day to get money for ACC, it took 2 hours to get there, and then I got killed by jerks sitting there killing anyone who came through." It should read.....

"I farmed walkers a whole day to get money for ACC off the local broker so I didnt have to risk my work in the travel down to someplace I had no idea where I am going so I am paying someone else to do it."

This is how economies work. I am willing to make the trip down to JC from Fabernum risk MY money to bring back those books and put them on the broker for a profit. You who may not have the time, skill or knowledge on how to get there and back should be willing to pay for that premium. OR risk it yourself.

What you consider tedium others consider relaxing.

Yes sometimes the travel can be a chore but other times, it isnt a hassle in fact its barely an inconvenience.

 

[Kaemik]

What you consider tedium others consider relaxing.

Yes sometimes the travel can be a chore but other times, it isnt a hassle in fact its barely an inconvenience.

Given you still need people to steer the mounts other players are passengers on, my system has already accounted for this and created a scenario where both players get what they want.

 

[Kaemik]

Just a quick recap. None of my suggestions remove travel time. None of my suggestions make travel faster than the highest speeds anyone is currently capable of. I am not proposing a teleportation system. My suggestions:

A. Remove the need for players to take cavalry skills to cross the map in a reasonable time as a part of a group.
B. Give some players the option to chill out and enjoy the ride while a smaller number of players steers. If their group is built that way. You still CAN do 1 player per horse.
C. Allows foot builds options to not need to drag a horse behind them into combat.

If a player is solo and likes to roam solo he can still travel solo on a horse. If you like to be the guy steering in a group, you are more valuable because now filling that role allows you to help others as well. If you like to trade between cities, this doesn't take away from that at all. It simply gives people more options so that I don't have to tell a single account player

"You really want to incorporate controlled riding into your build, and consider a form of mounted combat so your mount doesn't die so easy in every engagement. No, it's not good, it puts you at an objective disadvantage vs alt builds that can afford not to do this. But you only have one account so you need this to go to dungeons, check out new towns, do PvP roams. etc because the rest of the group does not want you to slow them down."

 

[Hodo]

Given you still need people to steer the mounts other players are passengers on, my system has already accounted for this and created a scenario where both players get what they want.

I am sure there are people who would love to do that.

 

[Kaemik]

I am sure there are people who would love to do that.

Oh absolutely. As a multiaccounter I fully intend to use this system from both ends if anything like these suggestions gets implemented. Sometimes I want to steer. Sometimes I want to chill. I would definitely have a taxi-driver build along with some of my existing foot only builds.

Currently I use my mounted builds to transport goods, and my foot builds to ghost around to different towns and do local fights, small scale gathering, and dungeons.

It's an efficient system. And one of the many reasons I argue this game actively encourages multi accounting as a pay to win model. But these changes would bring single account players closer to having the same convenience I do by making the more powerful foot-only combat builds a viable option for them as well.