Town Reputation (Possible counter to griefing in Towns)

[Tzone]

Seperate parallel system that assigns reputation to players in association to individual towns.

This rep system will have no way to undo negative reputation besides timer. You build possitive rep by doing busiess with that towns vendors or possibly just by being in that town. The max amount of rep you could have per town would usually be lower then empire rep and slowly accumilates.
It should not be affected by actions outside of town like grinders for fabernum. Just with in the gates. This will still allow fighting outside town which is most of the current content.

This can be the system that counters Player v Horse inside of towns by still doesnt punish having to take two rep losses if you PvP a mounted or tamer outside of town. You can still have empire rep loss for pet kills in town as long as its only in town. If a "griefer" rerolls they will start out with low reputation in that town and wont be able to "grief" that town right out of haven with out going negative.

The main difference and reason to have this system along with Empire rep is that it doesnt allow the player to quickly undo their crimes by farming rep if you go negative. But isnt over encompassing to entirely punish a player for these actions empire wide, and doesnt prevent PvP outside of towns. It would also foster home town mentality. In the future it can be used to gain slight bonus's in trade from vendors or you would require a certain amount of that towns rep to lease a house.

 

[agui]

Not directly related to your post but i think killing pet in towns you should lose rep.

 

[Chef]

Or just make pets invulnerable in towns.

 

[ElPerro]

Or just make pets invulnerable in towns.

Maybe you prefer New World. Heard you can turn pvp off there

 

[Chef]

Maybe you prefer New World. Heard you can turn pvp off there

I'm also OK with increasing lictor spawn count and increasing their reaction times. Basically does the same thing, but hey, makes the game feel more hardcore for you.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I'm also OK with increasing lictor spawn count and increasing their reaction times. Basically does the same thing, but hey, makes the game feel more hardcore for you.

But how is safer safe zones more hardcore ?

 

[Chef]

But how is safer safe zones more hardcore ?

Because letting the game turn into a griefing simulator like Rust or ATLAS is the antithesis of hardcore gaming

 

[ThaBadMan]

Because letting the game turn into a griefing simulator like Rust or ATLAS is the antithesis of hardcore gaming

Yes but mindless scripted guards are easily abusable and used as griefing tool against noobs and less experienced players. Look at MO as a perfect example not to follow.
Id rather see incentives and rewards for helping and guarding other players, boost for cities and town limits.
Or simply incentives and rewards for guilds to control, rule and enforce areas. Have good income for example the mre busy your city is.

Best places in MO was when TC was at its best and cities was ruled by player guilds and alliances, griefers was actually ran out of town instead of protected by guards, Elites and Lictors. Imo bad game design, especially so in a player centric game like MO2.

 

[Chef]

Yes but mindless scripted guards are easily abusable and used as griefing tool against noobs and less experienced players. Look at MO as a perfect example not to follow.
Id rather see incentives and rewards for helping and guarding other players, boost for cities and town limits.
Or simply incentives and rewards for guilds to control, rule and enforce areas. Have good income for example the mre busy your city is.

Best places in MO was when TC was at its best and cities was ruled by player guilds and alliances, griefers was actually ran out of town instead of protected by guards, Elites and Lictors. Imo bad game design, especially so in a player centric game like MO2.

1. MO2 =/= MO1. There's also a setting in MO2 that prevents new players from being "griefed" by guards.
2. It's a lot easier to make lictors respond/teleport faster when a mount is being attacked than to hire players to bodyguard mounts. Players also don't one shot people like guards do so you would be paying more for worse service.
3. TC is not out right now, otherwise griefers would be blacklisted and killed on sight.

 

[ThaBadMan]

1. MO2 =/= MO1. There's also a setting in MO2 that prevents new players from being "griefed" by guards.
2. It's a lot easier to make lictors respond/teleport faster when a mount is being attacked than to hire players to bodyguard mounts. Players also don't one shot people like guards do so you would be paying more for worse service.
3. TC is not out right now, otherwise griefers would be blacklisted and killed on sight.

All your points are abusable as they where in MO.
1. Mindless settings is as abusable as mindless zombies. MO also had many systems in place to limit griefing, yet griefing was always the premiere feature of MO.
2. Yes easier so softcore according to you, thought you wanted more better guards for the hardcore aspects... Guards acting faster will result in easier abusable griefing and quicker profit for griefers. Will only make griefing more widespread then MO was.
3.Blacklisting did nothing to quell griefers, but it was a great griefers tool to grief out solo players, small groups and medium groups. Reroll and blacklist dont work no more.

You talk like anti griefing tools are only used to quell griefing but its more used by griefers to run players out of the game. And yes they are hella more successful then anti griefers.

The only time in MO a area was mostly free from griefing was when guards was turned off and a large or good guild enforced the city as a real city. THE ONLY TIME.

Sorry to say but you dont seem to know that much about MO nor the reasons for its down fall, but you seem WAAAAY too vocal about bad directions to retake and redo MOs mistakes. Not a good look at all...

 

[Speznat]

Not directly related to your post but i think killing pet in towns you should lose rep.

Will come in the future henrik already confirmed that in his stream.
You can also watch my stream summaries if you wanna save time and wanna know what will be future features and changes.

 

[Najwalaylah]

'Pet killing in towns in Mortal Online 2 will cause some standing loss with the nation', Henrik said (according to the transcript of one of your summaries, possibly paraphrased into twtter-format).

Will come in the future henrik already confirmed that in his stream.
You can also watch my stream summaries if you wanna save time and wanna know what will be future features and changes.

Gracious. THANK YOU @Speznat (WolfszeitYT @ YouTube) for boiling Henrik's painstaking Q&A Twitch streams of 3-4 hours down into a spoken summary with a transcript on Youtube. I do not have the stamina to match his or yours for that length of time, every time, and I rarely catch his streams live.

 

[Tzone]

Yes but mindless scripted guards are easily abusable and used as griefing tool against noobs and less experienced players. Look at MO as a perfect example not to follow.
Id rather see incentives and rewards for helping and guarding other players, boost for cities and town limits.
Or simply incentives and rewards for guilds to control, rule and enforce areas. Have good income for example the mre busy your city is.

Best places in MO was when TC was at its best and cities was ruled by player guilds and alliances, griefers was actually ran out of town instead of protected by guards, Elites and Lictors. Imo bad game design, especially so in a player centric game like MO2.

The Idea behind my system is that the 75 empire rep as a human is nice for PvP but a greifer could kill 75 horses in a row. Just a seperate rep system that allows greater rep loss intowns with out a way to quickly get it back especially if you are negative.


Another Idea is just to allow the keep owners to have cheaper war decs and maybe have the ability to turn off guards. I was thinking about maybe allowing decs agaisnt unguilded players but then you have the issue of lets 20v1 this random dude and greif him out of town that way. If a guild is a keep owner then they should be strong enought to not need town guards to keep the peace. I dont like giving these people who will own these keeps power because they dont want fun gameplay for everyone. They just want to win at any cost.

 

[Chef]

All your points are abusable as they where in MO.
1. Mindless settings is as abusable as mindless zombies. MO also had many systems in place to limit griefing, yet griefing was always the premiere feature of MO.
2. Yes easier so softcore according to you, thought you wanted more better guards for the hardcore aspects... Guards acting faster will result in easier abusable griefing and quicker profit for griefers. Will only make griefing more widespread then MO was.
3.Blacklisting did nothing to quell griefers, but it was a great griefers tool to grief out solo players, small groups and medium groups. Reroll and blacklist dont work no more.

You talk like anti griefing tools are only used to quell griefing but its more used by griefers to run players out of the game. And yes they are hella more successful then anti griefers.

The only time in MO a area was mostly free from griefing was when guards was turned off and a large or good guild enforced the city as a real city. THE ONLY TIME.

Sorry to say but you dont seem to know that much about MO nor the reasons for its down fall, but you seem WAAAAY too vocal about bad directions to retake and redo MOs mistakes. Not a good look at all...

I think I know more about MO than you... for one, I can tell that the current lictors are much more effective at killing griefers than in MO1. The amount of horse killings have dropped significantly in at least Fabernum from it (although it does still happen quite a bit). Increasing lictor reaction time would further quell the horse killing.

Also, there is a setting that prevents players from going criminal IE griefers can't use guards to their advantage.

You also make a very contradictory statement; you admit a player controlled city made it grief free yet you disagree that blacklisting, which can only be done if players controlled the city, would not work? The amount of fallacies and ad hominems you throw my way leads me to believe you don't know this game as much as you think you do.

 

[ThaBadMan]

The Idea behind my system is that the 75 empire rep as a human is nice for PvP but a greifer could kill 75 horses in a row. Just a seperate rep system that allows greater rep loss intowns with out a way to quickly get it back especially if you are negative.


Another Idea is just to allow the keep owners to have cheaper war decs and maybe have the ability to turn off guards. I was thinking about maybe allowing decs agaisnt unguilded players but then you have the issue of lets 20v1 this random dude and greif him out of town that way. If a guild is a keep owner then they should be strong enought to not need town guards to keep the peace. I dont like giving these people who will own these keeps power because they dont want fun gameplay for everyone. They just want to win at any cost.

I agree rep based penalties is a good way to help keep griefers out, but it will always be players who keep holding them out, guards since they dont have a mind is easy to bug out or abuse.
So far we only have a severly basic one with no advantages or disadvantages beyond killing.

About guild owned towns when we get that. I simply want freedom, if they can take over the land and hold it then they deserve the power to rule said territory as they wish. They should be able to turn off guards, have its guild members/any guild they choose to act as guards and enforce, take taxes from inhabitants/trade/etc, they should be able to easily make whoever they choose instantly go gray in their territory ala a better blacklist system.
This is supposed to be a sandbox game, we should have the tools to build among the sand and influence as much as possible within reason if your strong enough.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I think I know more about MO than you... for one, I can tell that the current lictors are much more effective at killing griefers than in MO1. The amount of horse killings have dropped significantly in at least Fabernum from it (although it does still happen quite a bit). Increasing lictor reaction time would further quell the horse killing.

Also, there is a setting that prevents players from going criminal IE griefers can't use guards to their advantage.

You also make a very contradictory statement; you admit a player controlled city made it grief free yet you disagree that blacklisting, which can only be done if players controlled the city, would not work? The amount of fallacies and ad hominems you throw my way leads me to believe you don't know this game as much as you think you do.

Well you show the opposite through your postings.
Once the game releases we will see how good mindless guards really are. Ofc griefing has dropped in a near dead slow beta game, before things are for real, the real griefing wont start. During testing theres limited griefing since griefers are quickly kicked and if persistent banned. Happened ever since Combat Alpha started.
I dont trust any settings or systems until they are proven to work, SV promise gold and green forests way too much to take them at their word.

Before blacklisting was even a planned feature. Back when politics was for real, when actions had reactions, when shittalk had to be backed up. Back when you could turn off guards and actually rule a town. For example although not a town but Cave Camp under TOP leadership was way safer then Tindrem has EVER been. And I can promise you Gaul Kor was also way safer under AQ leadership if you where their ally.
During our own(Quad) rule of Gaul Kor, I could stand semi afk at the blast furnace for hours on end every day in total safety, I literally never lost materials on my extractor during the long time we owned it. Good luck ever trying to semi afk with a inventory filled with pyroxene or red bleckblende in Tindrem

Blacklisting could be a good feature but the limited one we got from SV was well shit. If you could blacklist more people, whole guilds or alliances it could work. But what would help is the "whitelist" we also wanted where you added friends and allies to. Further more guilded members of the owning guild is still not the owners of the guards in the town they own, if even a guild leader the king of the territory and town decides to take action in the moment against a griefers still not with low rep to have guards act then that ruler will be slaughtered by his own garrison guards Very good system thats not abusable due to simply being a script without a brain.

Near everything in MO is good on paper.

Sorry but yea I dont really care what you think, what I know and how you sound in your posts is what I go by and that screams you dont know much about MO.
I just dont care much for blind fanboyism, its slimy, cold and smells like manure, but hey thats just me, we all have different preferences.

 

[Chef]

Well you show the opposite through your postings.
Once the game releases we will see how good mindless guards really are. Ofc griefing has dropped in a near dead slow beta game, before things are for real, the real griefing wont start. During testing theres limited griefing since griefers are quickly kicked and if persistent banned. Happened ever since Combat Alpha started.
I dont trust any settings or systems until they are proven to work, SV promise gold and green forests way too much to take them at their word.

Before blacklisting was even a planned feature. Back when politics was for real, when actions had reactions, when shittalk had to be backed up. Back when you could turn off guards and actually rule a town. For example although not a town but Cave Camp under TOP leadership was way safer then Tindrem has EVER been. And I can promise you Gaul Kor was also way safer under AQ leadership if you where their ally.
During our own(Quad) rule of Gaul Kor, I could stand semi afk at the blast furnace for hours on end every day in total safety, I literally never lost materials on my extractor during the long time we owned it. Good luck ever trying to semi afk with a inventory filled with pyroxene or red bleckblende in Tindrem

Blacklisting could be a good feature but the limited one we got from SV was well shit. If you could blacklist more people, whole guilds or alliances it could work. But what would help is the "whitelist" we also wanted where you added friends and allies to. Further more guilded members of the owning guild is still not the owners of the guards in the town they own, if even a guild leader the king of the territory and town decides to take action in the moment against a griefers still not with low rep to have guards act then that ruler will be slaughtered by his own garrison guards Very good system thats not abusable due to simply being a script without a brain.

Near everything in MO is good on paper.

Sorry but yea I dont really care what you think, what I know and how you sound in your posts is what I go by and that screams you dont know much about MO.
I just dont care much for blind fanboyism, its slimy, cold and smells like manure, but hey thats just me, we all have different preferences.

The game was not "near dead" during testing. It had more players on than MO1 ever had, and yes griefing decreased significantly right after the lictor patch. I've also yet to see any one of the dozens of griefers get banned for doing what they do, and considering Thymorical and his band of miscreants are STILL running around killing mounts, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You also seem to be stubborn in thinking MO2 is just MO1 with a graphics overhaul. No, the lictors in MO1 did not teleport to you and strike you down for 200 through armor. The lictors in MO2 are much better, and if their reaction times were increased, they'd be even better. They would not be the end all, be all of stopping griefers but they would mitigate the problem significantly. Furthermore, you're compared Tindrem a very populated grief haven to Cave Camp and Gaul Kor, cities where no griefer would want to go to in the first place. This is some serious selection bias since griefers only target the more "new player friendly" places like Fabernum, Tindrem, Meduli, Bakti and Vadda. Also, I'm not saying having players completely guard towns is a bad idea, I don't know why you are strawmanning that, what I'm saying is having better guards would be a very easy to implement, cost effective way at curbing griefing compared to waiting a few months for TC to release, taking over a town, then getting guildies to log on and guard it.

On the matter of blacklisting, I don't think you understand that Starvault is not about to copy and paste MO1 to MO2. They are not and will not be the same games. The new combat system is testament to that. You say that I have "blind fanboyism" but your opinions are akin to blind stubbornness.

Now, I would appreciate if you stop all the ad hominems as they are not conducive to a fruitful discussion. Please be more mature in the future.

 

[Tzone]

I agree rep based penalties is a good way to help keep griefers out, but it will always be players who keep holding them out, guards since they dont have a mind is easy to bug out or abuse.
So far we only have a severly basic one with no advantages or disadvantages beyond killing.

About guild owned towns when we get that. I simply want freedom, if they can take over the land and hold it then they deserve the power to rule said territory as they wish. They should be able to turn off guards, have its guild members/any guild they choose to act as guards and enforce, take taxes from inhabitants/trade/etc, they should be able to easily make whoever they choose instantly go gray in their territory ala a better blacklist system.
This is supposed to be a sandbox game, we should have the tools to build among the sand and influence as much as possible within reason if your strong enough.

If the mechanic wasnt a hide behind guard mechanic that would be far better then having guards kill your enimies for you. Turning off guards would be fine if they just could do it back and fourth to suit them ganking people in towns.

Henrik wants inns to be protected and beable to prevent people from weapons from enterings so perhaps only bouncers for areas like that.

 

[ThaBadMan]

The game was not "near dead" during testing. It had more players on than MO1 ever had, and yes griefing decreased significantly right after the lictor patch. I've also yet to see any one of the dozens of griefers get banned for doing what they do, and considering Thymorical and his band of miscreants are STILL running around killing mounts, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You also seem to be stubborn in thinking MO2 is just MO1 with a graphics overhaul. No, the lictors in MO1 did not teleport to you and strike you down for 200 through armor. The lictors in MO2 are much better, and if their reaction times were increased, they'd be even better. They would not be the end all, be all of stopping griefers but they would mitigate the problem significantly. Furthermore, you're compared Tindrem a very populated grief haven to Cave Camp and Gaul Kor, cities where no griefer would want to go to in the first place. This is some serious selection bias since griefers only target the more "new player friendly" places like Fabernum, Tindrem, Meduli, Bakti and Vadda. Also, I'm not saying having players completely guard towns is a bad idea, I don't know why you are strawmanning that, what I'm saying is having better guards would be a very easy to implement, cost effective way at curbing griefing compared to waiting a few months for TC to release, taking over a town, then getting guildies to log on and guard it.

On the matter of blacklisting, I don't think you understand that Starvault is not about to copy and paste MO1 to MO2. They are not and will not be the same games. The new combat system is testament to that. You say that I have "blind fanboyism" but your opinions are akin to blind stubbornness.

Now, I would appreciate if you stop all the ad hominems as they are not conducive to a fruitful discussion. Please be more mature in the future.

Its not illegal to kill mounts in a game man, how much Somniferum did you take ?
Just because you have not tested this game for long dont mean things happening before you started never happened. Used to be general knowledge around here that griefers and troubble makers got banned after a few kicks when disrupting testing basically the only form of grief that exists in a game during testing.
Also being a miscreant also isnt a banable offense afaik, so seems to be you with no idea about things...

MO2 so far is MO with better graphics and slightly better tech resulting in slightly better stability then MO. Fact is in the pudding, that is if you know your game obviously...
Theres a saying that goes "talk like a duck, walk like a duck, act like a duck. Chances are its a duck".

Lictors used to spawn next to you once you died from them. This is a recycled idea from original MO CBT launch Lictors. Oh and no they didnt hit for 200, they instantly killed you with 400 dmg upon spawning next to you with the killing animation and then a prayer before they despawned.
You simply dont know what your spewing little boy.
Griefers used to abuse those old Lictors btw...
I am comparing the capital of the Tindremic Empire the heaviest guarded town in Nave to a lawless area where no law exists except the law of nature. Mindless scripted robots easily abused against Players with heads filled with brain matter capable of thoughts and creating his own scripts.
Griefers are only players playing the game to ruin others playtime, not limited to griefing noobs. All lawless towns in Myrland was plagued by griefers and thieves so long no strong guild owned and held the town. Experience and history speaks loader then your fantasies im afraid...

I dont understand your total blind trust in mindless zombies keeping you safe and the profound opposition against any tried and tested arguements against said mindless zombie robots.
You should listen to your wise men who lived life and experienced things you only dream about and clearly lack any understanding of.

You spewing that fanboyish naivety sadly wont make that a fact. So far EVERYTHING have been a copy/paste from MO to MO2, some things even been cut down like crafting. Even the assets in the game is copy/paste from Unreal store. This brings me back to that duck thingy...

It would be blind stubbornness but sadly as Henrik and me both knows all my stubbornness was born from Henriks failure to deliver his promises to me so many years ago, so no blind is far from the right description of me, angry old faithless grumpy man would be alot closer to the target.

2 points so far, dont need to copy/paste their warnings to me! Ill be hammered soon enough.

If only you knew what mature is....

For the younglings:

 

[Chef]

Its not illegal to kill mounts in a game man, how much Somniferum did you take ?

Are you trolling me? YOU'RE the one claiming griefers were getting banned. I'm the one saying people aren't being banned for griefing.

MO2 =/= MO1. Combat is different. If you think they are the same with just better graphics, you haven't played either enough.

As for lictors, stop trying to refer to MO1. I'm saying how lictors work NOW in MO2. They teleport to you, hit you hard, and send you to the shadowrealm. I don't care if griefers used to abuse lictors in MO1, I'm talking about MO2 right now. Stop trying to impede the development of the game based on incorrect, outdated notions from MO1, a game with different mechanics.

If you were experienced you'd know there would be no griefers in GK, Kranesh, Cave Camp, god forbid Jungle Camp, because there's not much to grief. The closest to griefing in these areas was killing Tephra miners. Otherwise, it's not like you can find 15 mounts AFKing outside of one of the GK banks. There's no substance for griefers to go after in those towns, neither do griefers want to travel that far to do what they could in more populated areas.

Now let's say we don't increase lictor reaction time, because players can do a better job of guarding towns. Fine. How will you go about that right now without TC? Are you going to log 100 people into Bakti, kill off all the guards/spawn camp the guards then guard the town? Are you going to look the guards in the eye and say "in MO1, we could turn you off so go away right now?"

No. You'll want to wait for TC to be released then turn off the guards.

So what can you do in the meantime? Make the guards better. It takes significantly less effort to improve lictor reaction times than it would to implement an entire TC system.

And I'm not going to listen to you "wise men" over the CEO of the game. He knows what he's doing and has more experience in the game than any of us. So far, his addition of better lictor AI/teleportation has significantly curbed griefing than prior to it. You can't tell me in the current state of MO2 (not MO1) having worse guards and no TC is better than having better guards and no TC.