Thursars are pretty shit again and Humans as usual are, especially larger ones a balance buff I suggested in 2023 could come in clutch. Buff height

[Iloros]

Make height as a stat give 3x more HP than it does. It gives almost none. 1 size (2cm) gives just 0.3ish HP per att point. If you go up 20cm you gain just 4 HP that is absurd. Almost all the meta clades currently played are of shorter stature.

Oghmirs the shortrst clade are OP in zvz again due to massive Thursar nerf followed by an Oghmir buff even tho Oghmirs were seeing a comeback in zvz even before those changes. They usually go min height but either way are very short and are balanced around being short so a short class that doesnt have much of size stat regardless.

Alvarin footie is the most popular class in the gamr overpowered iand the only viable foltie build in small scale and solo and mandatory in large scale aswell. Is short in the world of Nave its 184cm while height ranges from 150ish to 225.

Alvarin mage second shortest class after Oghmir and very similar in height
also overpowered and currently the only playable mage in small scale solo which is majority of the gameplay.

So all 3 current meta builds are short. Now lets look at some of the weakest builds.


Human Kallard - the tallest human is very underutilized and weak, sidoan and tindremene are better in almost every way can be tankier even because acess to better heals and akh bond and smaller hitbox genuinely beat the HP gain Kallard gets over them. Extremely unpopular.

Kallard/any other Thursar

The tallest of them all and on the weaker side currently. They still die to magic but now melee melts them also incredibly easy to hit with bows which also post adamant nerf melts them, othet than Alvarins wears least amount of armor and instadie to callsout in zvz while being dominated by Alvarins in small scale.

So we see the trend races balanced on having higher size stat just tend to be weaker due to many issues but one definitely is just size being a weak stat. It gives some damage bonus which is the most overrated stat in the game, gives very very miniscule amount of HP and then it makes you a way bigger target in a basically fps game at this point, also makes pet have struggle carrying you makes certain morphs worse etc etc.

My suggestion is to make HP gain from size tripled.

Going from 184cm to 204cm should bring your HP from 180 to 192 rather tham 180 to 184.

Game nerfed survivability multiple times and this would act as a much better durability update than 10 flat HP. Accompanying this with some Alvarin nerfs and perhaps healing nerfs would put a game from the worst to the best spot ever balance wise.

 

[Teknique]

How are you actually supposed to balance such heavy racials. Every race has 20 different skills.

If it were just races and the game was footfighter online I guess it would be doable, and the game practically is that already. But these are just racials after all. They then have to interact with actual classes like magic. This is a difficult feat for a competent developer. So how is arguably the most incompetent one in existence supposed to manage?

Thursars get buffed the meta will probably shift again. Humans are always trash. Mo1 was so much simpler there were two speed break points, 238, and 243 which you can multiply by 2 to get their mo2 equivalent, everyone had similar hp. The only difference was stat caps. Yet this mentally incompetent player base cried that the game was way too racial dominated. I can’t believe the utter failures that constituted this community.

Anyway yeah good idea on the size and hp I guess. I can’t really knock it. Game needs more really tall stupid looking characters for sure. Doesn’t have enough as is.

I could probably do it by making every race with the specific intent of playing a specific class. For example I was the author of the “cleric” clade for humans. One I think everyone would agree was super cool. It was designed for paladins. Even if it created its own balance issues. But hey I’m just an idiot what do I know. Svs approach of just air dropping in any random racial with no actual intent on what class it’s supposed to be for is definitely working.

 

[Iloros]

How are you actually supposed to balance such heavy racials. Every race has 20 different skills.

If it were just races and the game was footfighter online I guess it would be doable, and the game practically is that already. But these are just racials after all. They then have to interact with actual classes like magic. This is a difficult feat for a competent developer. So how is arguably the most incompetent one in existence supposed to manage?

Thursars get buffed the meta will probably shift again. Humans are always trash. Mo1 was so much simpler there were two speed break points, 238, and 243 which you can multiply by 2 to get their mo2 equivalent, everyone had similar hp. The only difference was stat caps. Yet this mentally incompetent player base cried that the game was way too racial dominated. I can’t believe the utter failures that constituted this community.

Anyway yeah good idea on the size and hp I guess. I can’t really knock it. Game needs more really tall stupid looking characters for sure. Doesn’t have enough as is.

I could probably do it by making every race with the specific intent of playing a specific class. For example I was the author of the “cleric” clade for humans. One I think everyone would agree was super cool. It was designed for paladins. Even if it created its own balance issues. But hey I’m just an idiot what do I know. Svs approach of just air dropping in any random racial with no actual intent on what class it’s supposed to be for is definitely working.

Yeah ty for agreeing. And I do think it is hard to balance 20 racials but those 20 racials are really like 5-6 in this game. +2 raw str and stuff like that is really nothing, most of them are kinda weakish side too like Thursar battlecry for example never was buffed always was shit I use it coz I like the idea and theres nothing else, but replacing it with a passive scaling dmg bonus on low Hp is so much cooler. They already have that coded with orbs btw and I have one, so if they could give Thursars 0-7% dmg bonus based on % HP for example would be cool. Oghmirs I think have the coolest abilities they get massive mele defense but only when slow walking they get passive dmg reduction and a skillfull punishing potentially pipe that you also need to buy and eat food etc. Humans again lack hard other than cleric and congrats on making it, I find it cool and unique, but other than it all their abilities are boring and shit. Magic defense x 2 and 25% reduced ally dmg lol

 

[Iloros]

How are you actually supposed to balance such heavy racials. Every race has 20 different skills.

If it were just races and the game was footfighter online I guess it would be doable, and the game practically is that already. But these are just racials after all. They then have to interact with actual classes like magic. This is a difficult feat for a competent developer. So how is arguably the most incompetent one in existence supposed to manage?

Thursars get buffed the meta will probably shift again. Humans are always trash. Mo1 was so much simpler there were two speed break points, 238, and 243 which you can multiply by 2 to get their mo2 equivalent, everyone had similar hp. The only difference was stat caps. Yet this mentally incompetent player base cried that the game was way too racial dominated. I can’t believe the utter failures that constituted this community.

Anyway yeah good idea on the size and hp I guess. I can’t really knock it. Game needs more really tall stupid looking characters for sure. Doesn’t have enough as is.

I could probably do it by making every race with the specific intent of playing a specific class. For example I was the author of the “cleric” clade for humans. One I think everyone would agree was super cool. It was designed for paladins. Even if it created its own balance issues. But hey I’m just an idiot what do I know. Svs approach of just air dropping in any random racial with no actual intent on what class it’s supposed to be for is definitely working.

also even if it was 20 there are games I always bring up league with countless items and characters and runes and builds and they make it all balanced. Irs about consistently tracking and keeping outliers in check reality of gaming is that humans dont instantly figute shit out unless its giga op like Alvarins rn. But lets say a year later we did 15 balance patches everything seems fine and then a new meta emerges it can happen you track it and nerf it. I dont like and dont buy that this game is somehow non-comparable to other games .

 

[Teknique]

Yeah ty for agreeing. And I do think it is hard to balance 20 racials but those 20 racials are really like 5-6 in this game. +2 raw str and stuff like that is really nothing, most of them are kinda weakish side too like Thursar battlecry for example never was buffed always was shit I use it coz I like the idea and theres nothing else, but replacing it with a passive scaling dmg bonus on low Hp is so much cooler. They already have that coded with orbs btw and I have one, so if they could give Thursars 0-7% dmg bonus based on % HP for example would be cool. Oghmirs I think have the coolest abilities they get massive mele defense but only when slow walking they get passive dmg reduction and a skillfull punishing potentially pipe that you also need to buy and eat food etc. Humans again lack hard other than cleric and congrats on making it, I find it cool and unique, but other than it all their abilities are boring and shit. Magic defense x 2 and 25% reduced ally dmg lol

Yeah, I think we can certainly agree that the balancing can not only be better but much much better. General feel is abilities were just air dropped into the game.

I would say the clades need to be balanced for footfighting primarily and then secondarily they should take a traditional class specific lens of mc ma mm fm etc etc. instead of lore based like oh this race can see in the dark and this race likes to smoke metal.

To bring it back to thursars I think they’re in a weird place to balance just because of their damage and reach, lifesteal too. Their massive hitbox. They operate so different from everything else they’re either too strong or too weak. Humans need a complete rework, ogh definitely the most detailed, and alvarin are weird because they’re either too fast or too slow, too little dmg or too high

 

[Iloros]

Yeah, I think we can certainly agree that the balancing can not only be better but much much better. General feel is abilities were just air dropped into the game.

I would say the clades need to be balanced for footfighting primarily and then secondarily they should take a traditional class specific lens of mc ma mm fm etc etc. instead of lore based like oh this race can see in the dark and this race likes to smoke metal.

To bring it back to thursars I think they’re in a weird place to balance just because of their damage and reach, lifesteal too. Their massive hitbox. They operate so different from everything else they’re either too strong or too weak. Humans need a complete rework, ogh definitely the most detailed, and alvarin are weird because they’re either too fast or too slow, too little dmg or too high

I think Thursar and Alvarin are easily balanced. Make Thursars have larger hp pools, that is all they need (styg already makes this a reality in 1v1 small scale so a 25 hp buff lets say wouldnt make them almost any different in a 1v1 because their total ehp is like a thousand anwyays) but it helps agaisnt burst because they genuinely do get focused too easily, perhaps even a stacking defense buff based on how many people are hitting you BUT THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING EVERYONE GETS, just like in albion.

Alvarins are clearly overpowered now and were never udnerplayed or needed buffs, people just need to realize they just will not feel as good in combat as other races all else equal if they are balanced because they get so much shit outside combat. If you get fuck ton of utility and general gameplay loop buffs, and just crazy speed you cannot also be top tier in pure combat power it just cannot work so people expecting that were what made alvarin absurdly op. Like you can't have a 450 speed class that sees through walls and can jump where noone can both up and down and has basiclaly 2x effective stam of everyone also do most dmg for 1/3 of the time and have just what 10% less hp and now same defense as thursar or human, and a tiny bit less than oghmir. Its absurd. Alvarin is the best dps class rn.

 

[ElPerro]

I think Thursar and Alvarin are easily balanced. Make Thursars have larger hp pools, that is all they need (styg already makes this a reality in 1v1 small scale so a 25 hp buff lets say wouldnt make them almost any different in a 1v1 because their total ehp is like a thousand anwyays) but it helps agaisnt burst because they genuinely do get focused too easily, perhaps even a stacking defense buff based on how many people are hitting you BUT THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING EVERYONE GETS, just like in albion.

Alvarins are clearly overpowered now and were never udnerplayed or needed buffs, people just need to realize they just will not feel as good in combat as other races all else equal if they are balanced because they get so much shit outside combat. If you get fuck ton of utility and general gameplay loop buffs, and just crazy speed you cannot also be top tier in pure combat power it just cannot work so people expecting that were what made alvarin absurdly op. Like you can't have a 450 speed class that sees through walls and can jump where noone can both up and down and has basiclaly 2x effective stam of everyone also do most dmg for 1/3 of the time and have just what 10% less hp and now same defense as thursar or human, and a tiny bit less than oghmir. Its absurd. Alvarin is the best dps class rn.

They really fucked up giving alvarins so much stam and the armor penetration wasnt needed either. I think ideally they should keep their burst speed because that is their defining trait but you should be able to out stam them on longer distances. Maybe bring back kite sprinting as a clade gift for some human race (khurite? sidonean? idk) so you drain less stam when running out of combat and can eventually catch them.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

No, Iloros.

Remove percentage speed modifiers and armor penetration on elfs and the game will be good.

 

[Iloros]

No, Iloros.

Remove percentage speed modifiers and armor penetration on elfs and the game will be good.

100% but alvarin sight also itches me wrong it sounds like way too much but its correct amount of nerfs. (sounds too much not to me or you but general pop is just so alvarin biased that they will cry hard asf)

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

100% but alvarin sight also itches me wrong it sounds like way too much but its correct amount of nerfs. (sounds too much not to me or you but general pop is just so alvarin biased that they will cry hard asf)

You're right, it should be purged too, but I can already hear the autistic screeches of elf mains by the sheer thought of something so rational.

 

[Smoldor]

I was going to make a post about the same thing, but height is a HUGE disadvantage right now on so many levels. I think tripling HP from height, like was suggested here, is actually a good way to do it, as well as giving Oghmir a clade that balances it out at the top end to keep them even.

It's almost as if the game needs a defensive stat that doesn't exist, improved by height+con... "Damage Resistance," which was adamant for giant Thursars and akh bond for Human DK until they got rid of both.

 

[Iloros]

I was going to make a post about the same thing, but height is a HUGE disadvantage right now on so many levels. I think tripling HP from height, like was suggested here, is actually a good way to do it, as well as giving Oghmir a clade that balances it out at the top end to keep them even.

It's almost as if the game needs a defensive stat that doesn't exist, improved by height+con... "Damage Resistance," which was adamant for giant Thursars and akh bond for Human DK until they got rid of both.

Humans and Thursars post akh bond adamant removal basically are such easy targets. Nobody plays them almost whike target nerf on akh bond were sheevras that coudlnt care less because rhey are alvarins with infinite kiting so they dont need it lol. Also Thursar nerf straight up mistake due to propaganda from majority Alvarin playerbase. Make Alvarins balanced wait for 3 4 months till pop grows and bias srabilizes and you wont be getting such buased takes now when they add a questionare feedback they are basically asking 80% Alvarin 80% zerg communitx if Alvarins and zergs are fine. No they are not at all.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Humans and Thursars post akh bond adamant removal basically are such easy targets. Nobody plays them almost whike target nerf on akh bond were sheevras that coudlnt care less because rhey are alvarins with infinite kiting so they dont need it lol. Also Thursar nerf straight up mistake due to propaganda from majority Alvarin playerbase. Make Alvarins balanced wait for 3 4 months till pop grows and bias srabilizes and you wont be getting such buased takes now when they add a questionare feedback they are basically asking 80% Alvarin 80% zerg communitx if Alvarins and zergs are fine. No they are not at all.

I didn't know they nerfed Adamant and Akh Bond. Completely brain dead "balance" team.

 

[Iloros]

I didn't know they nerfed Adamant and Akh Bond. Completely brain dead "balance" team.

Nerf akh bond adamant brace and trinket defense scaling then buff dmg trinkets but add 10 hp for ttk LOL

Ttk is down coz you guys nerfed every tanking tool in the game