The Sensible Feedback

[Handsome Young Man]

I've browsed the new Mortal Online 2 forums a few times now, and I was curious to see what people had been giving feedback and criticism on. Come to find out, it's the same people who have been playing through thick and thin, and trust me this doesn't come as a compliment to that group. Mortal Online 1 had so many abhorrently wrong things with it that people are just willing to ignore the kind of things that persisted for years and years and years just because of a new shiny engine and a glorified tech demo with 150$ price tag.

I by all means would like Mortal Online 2 to prove me wrong, and show that Star Vault have learned from the error of their ways; but I can't help but think when they look here for some kind of fan-guidance that all they see is "please add new x feature!!" "please add new x magic!!" "please add x please!!".

It honestly makes me genuinely think if these people had actually been playing the game all along. Do people not realize that Mortal Online 1 had a severe problem with adding new features and content and then moving onto the next batch of 'new content'. Pushing out half baked, buggy, unbalanced messes that we the players just had to hope and pray they would fix?

I get it. Star Vault had to deal with the spaghetti-code of a lot of developers and interns that no longer worked there, in a frankenstein Unreal Engine 3.5 with a slew of problems from the get-go. But why are people suggesting we add new features when the focus should be rounding out the very core of the game which had problems in the original?

I can understand wanting boats, and wanting those silly things like instruments or brothels to go mess about in. I can genuinely feel it, trust me. But perhaps before you go and present your idea, think to yourself. What's more important - new ideas on top of new ideas, or fixing the original core of the game from MO1 that made the game what it is.

You can have all the pretty graphics, bells, whistles, and baubles - but the moment you focus on 'new and shiny' is when you gut the game a second time and leave it a bug-ridden mess with mechanics that put you off and drive people away, and develop these weird cult-followings of people who have stockholm syndrome. "It'll get better. This isn't so bad."

Mortal Online 1 had the original goal of presenting a hostile world with full-loot PvP and where skill and knowledge put you above others. It was very much a dog eat dog world. It made people want to learn more, and get better at what ever it was they were doing; and in the end it got reduced to cowering behind layers of TC, using NPC's to fight for you, and sapping the danger, fun, and wanderlust the game initially had for many.

I'm not going to dive into specifics and then explain my reasoning why they should have focus, but rather look back and do your own research and you'll see a lot of these systems were completely devoid of attention or were half-finished, and or unbalanced.

1. AI
2. Exploits & Glitches
3. Hack Prevention
4. PvP Imbalance
5. Guild Management & Systems
6. Optimization
7. Terrain Irregularities
8. Netcode
9. Efficient Mechanics & Gameplay (Re-works of skills like 'Butchery' or just a removal thereof)
10. Territory Control (AI guards, layers of TC to prevent hostilities / interactions, etc.)

There is 10 good points to really give feedback on, and I know some people might say "well this is mortal online 2, not mortal online 1. none of those issues exist" or "they'll already have all that fixed and worked out!" Don't be idle and put tons of trust into what you don't actually know, it's most important if you really want to see the game succeed that you make sure Star Vault hears you on the stuff that matters. New features would be great - but lets make sure the game we want actually comes out with the issues that really mattered in the last game, addressed and handled.

Obviously, this is just my opinion and I know there will be some people who will shit all over it and say I'm wrong and that the game needs "new features and better graphics and more things to do!" when really a lot of the older playerbase will (more than likely) tell you they'd just want a solid rounded out Mortal Online that fixes and or avoids these issues as much as possible.

Thanks for reading, and good luck Star Vault. Please prove me wrong.

 

[Phen]

Not going to vote.... please see that lots of players are die hard gamers anyways. We know the mistakes and all of us can criticize. Placing such a large set of topics here seems more of an obstacle to get real feedback. As you go through feedback/suggestions page you will see people want to cover these topics separately due to the depth of the game. Can we keep this pattern of concern going by post, instead of spreading it so wildly in very different topics within the game on a single post?
?= Yeah...
? = Nope!
? = Lmao, To much to handle.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Not going to vote.... please see that lots of players are die hard gamers anyways. We know the mistakes and all of us can criticize. Placing such a large set of topics here seems more of an obstacle to get real feedback. As you go through feedback/suggestions page you will see people want to cover these topics separately due to the depth of the game. Can we keep this pattern of concern going by post, instead of spreading it so wildly in very different topics within the game on a single post?

... What? So by focusing on things that were extremely messed up or left half-finished, bugged, or not in a working state and making sure they work in MO2 is considered an obstacle to real feedback?

I kind of fail to see the reasoning here to be quite honest with you. What are you currently giving feedback on with the combat alpha? It's probably combat, optimization, and any bugs / crashes that pop up. There really isn't -much- to give feedback on - yet people are still out here suggesting new ideas not even in view of the real problems that plagued the game initially.

Also, to some extent. Sure. Some people are doing that. This topic wasn't directed at those people, I even made mention to state that there are people who have played through all of these mentioned broad topics but still wish to drive off into fantasy and make believe land and ignore the original issues and just move on to new ideas.

I didn't make the thread to compound everything that needs to be fixed in one thread. I was saying in general if people want to make suggestions, maybe they should think back on what MO1 did wrong; then weigh what matters more before they post their idea. What's the point in putting thought and energy into a new idea when you could instead bring more awareness to things that were done wrong, and along with other members of the community present potential solutions. Not that Star Vault should listen verbatim to what we come up with - that's been proven dangerous.

TL;DR

There were real problems in MO1. They should be the focus of concern. I was just making more of a PSA that people should weigh their 'new and intuitive' ideas against the actual core of the game. Adding ships doesn't fix the terrible TC system we had. Adding brothels doesn't get us closer to more balanced PvP. Adding prisons doesn't fix the horrendous and buggy AI.

Point being, suggestions and new ideas are fine; but is this really what we want to present to Star Vault and not fixing what originally made the game good right now?

 

[Phen]

[QUOTE="Handsome Young Man, post: 1596, member: 307

Point being, suggestions and new ideas are fine; but is this really what we want to present to Star Vault and not fixing what originally made the game good right now?
[/QUOTE]

So are you saying to think as if they are still on UE3? Cause lots of the issues where from that system and how they were able to implement them. Going backwards doesnt do anything. If you look at the pillars of the game. You have to start with basics, yes... work on PVP, PVE, and MMO economics. They know the mistakes that were made and we cant give proper info if we arent testing those particular impact points, when we havent seen them...

Please come at me with the idea i dont know anything, suggestions are all I can give sense I dont have Alpha right now. Why would I post on PVP if I'm not part of it at the moment?

Although when it comes to unknown new functions, pervious implementation are all we can go off of and give our best feedback. Pointing out all the issues doesnt help provide feedback on getting them to be useable in a fair manner. No one here has the rights to talk about what we havent seen yet. But they are asking for feedback and suggestions, so providing them real information of what we want to see can and will help them decide what next to do. My point is, it's a step by step process, bringing everything to the table in a single post doesnt feel helpful.
Plus a lot of what you have as topic points we wont be able to know anything about until its released to us. Also not commenting on the fact you want to remove trades within the game... I've been a butcher for a long time, its hurtful removing a class of choice when you dont know it's TRUE value is. Just because some players wanna fight and other wanna provide doesnt ever mean to remove a class type because someone does use it or like it.... while im not going to argue trades, fighting styles, or what's to come. I preferably rather provide helping information to improve all aspects as they are presented as this game grows.

Wanna shoot me an alpha key so I can give proper feedback to PVP? Cuase I do miss killing scrubbies!❤

 

[Handsome Young Man]

I'm having a hard time reading most of this, but I'll try to answer it to the best of my ability from what I do understand.

So just to clarify, MO1 wasn't on Unreal Engine 3 to begin with. Sure, it came up in the splash screen but in reality MO1 had a special version of Unreal Engine that is dubbed Unreal Engine 3.5 - As most people have come to learn, Unreal Engine isn't very suitable for the MMO genre.

Also my point wasn't that we don't have the ability to 'test things' in Unreal Engine 4 / Mortal Online 2. My point was they had control over many things, but left them messed up or half-finished in MO1. Was it because of the inability to due so for technical reasons, were they cutting corners, were they lazy? Who knows. Star Vault has never been much on giving insightful information on the inner-workings of what they do and why. Very rarely do we get direct answers or reasoning for specific things. Hence me telling others that it's -our job- as a community that if we want a solid, well-rounded out game maybe we should hold off on the bright new ideas and make sure we let Star Vault know that "Hey. You had these problems in the last game, here is what we think and is some potential solutions." aka feedback.

I feel like there is a language barrier between you and me, because you seem to be misunderstanding and or misreading what I'm typing. The whole purpose of my thread was to bring awareness that we should be on Star Vault to be on top of the old issues so we don't see them resurface. Regardless if it was Henriks fault, Sebs fault, Star Vaults fault, limited budget / time, a smaller dev. team, technical bottlenecks, etc. The reasons for the problems are void and null at this point - all that matters is they don't come back to plague Mortal Online 2.

You say that they've learned from it, and that they know to do better. Sometimes putting trust in what you actually don't know is unwise, a lot of people did that with MO1 and it left them disappointed.

Also, how does bringing the topic of past problems from the previous game not provide feedback? Like I genuinely do not understand what you mean. PvP was unbalanced in MO1, so for me to say "Hey. In MO1, PvP was unbalanced for X, Y, and Z reasons. Here is what I think..."

How is this -not- feedback? How does it not help them? To point out a past design, and then providing insight on why it was an issue; and then providing opinions and potential solutions that can draw inspiration from or just take entirely to apply to their game.

Also again, I wasn't bringing everything in a single post. Hence why I think there is a language barrier. I was over generalizing and saying. "Hey. Instead of suggesting a new skill to make maps, how about you look back and think about what you thought of the AI in MO1 and make a post regarding how you felt about it and what could be improved." Rather than pushing personal want instead of thinking of the game as a whole rather than just yourself and what you want in that moment.

So just to make it extremely clear. I'm not talking about Mortal Online 2 when it comes to tangible things we can test and give feedback on. I am explicitly saying that we shouldn't forget the issues that plagued Mortal Online 1, and be adamant on letting our voices be heard so they don't resurface back to Mortal Online 2.

As for the slight remark to butchery, you can explain it forward, backwards, left, right, up, and down a thousand times and I would still tell you it was one of the worst skills / systems implemented into MO1. If anything, If ANYTHING - it should just have all if not a majority of it's primaries stripped away; like most professions.

Luckily though they announced skill pools between crafting and combat, so this might not even be an issue to begin with. It was an issue in MO1 because your characters quite literally became crafting-mules that you only -ever- played when you needed to craft or process something. WOW SO INNOVATIVE AND FUN! I love paying 9$ for a character that I basically AFK processing materials and popping books, and waddling from a bank to a bench.

This isn't gameplay. This is tedious annoyances that should be broken down and re-worked, which again; the skill pool system is a great start to that.

 

[Phen]

.....Your making my point....
We dont know what's coming or how it works. Why talk about what they know was messed up? They already know.... we have no idea how things are going to change. As you pointed out, new point system... how can anyone say a role is pointless.. let's just take our mining too while we are at... no need for armor or weapons right?
All I'm saying is if you wanna see change you gotta start where they are. Few have posted about PVP, PVE, AI interactions, and much more. But until they bring us something to test, we cant speak much for it in itself.. so referencing an old game and old functions just doesnt seem as useful as much as giving examples of how to better the overall game knowing they have a lot more power in implementations. Unlike before when lots couldnt be done properly due to poor coding.. Assuming folks knew that their old base coding was trash and was the biggest fault of the whole game, as it grew harder and harder for them to add and fix issues. I trust everyone till they give me reason not to. Why not trust them this time when they have a real team, and a plan of attack bigger and better goals than before?

As stated, one step at a time. Many changes so many new movements to come.
Craftermules... no comment... Your making me think your a one sided player.. Sense we all read, one char per person. Who knows what else will change and what issues are to come. We will all have to wait till those come around. Till then almost no point of speaking of such topics cuase nothing can be tested at this time.

Just looking at old issues doesnt help the new game. Maybe using old issues as a concern to new systems sure, but talk on those points, not everything we cant associate with right now. Seems like we could be talking nonsense, we dont know what's happening within. Giving us lack of reason to go over old issues. Not being rude but all issues from MO1 have been talked about in MO1 Forums. This is Mortal Online 2, let's assume everything changed until further notice. ?❤

 

[Handsome Young Man]

.....Your making my point....
We dont know what's coming or how it works. Why talk about what they know was messed up? They already know.... we have no idea how things are going to change. As you pointed out, new point system... how can anyone say a role is pointless.. let's just take our mining too while we are at... no need for armor or weapons right?
All I'm saying is if you wanna see change you gotta start where they are. Few have posted about PVP, PVE, AI interactions, and much more. But until they bring us something to test, we cant speak much for it in itself.. so referencing an old game and old functions just doesnt seem as useful as much as giving examples of how to better the overall game knowing they have a lot more power in implementations. Unlike before when lots couldnt be done properly due to poor coding.. Assuming folks knew that their old base coding was trash and was the biggest fault of the whole game, as it grew harder and harder for them to add and fix issues. I trust everyone till they give me reason not to. Why not trust them this time when they have a real team, and a plan of attack bigger and better goals than before?

As stated, one step at a time. Many changes so many new movements to come.
Craftermules... no comment... Your making me think your a one sided player.. Sense we all read, one char per person. Who knows what else will change and what issues are to come. We will all have to wait till those come around. Till then almost no point of speaking of such topics cuase nothing can be tested at this time.

Just looking at old issues doesnt help the new game. Maybe using old issues as a concern to new systems sure, but talk on those points, not everything we cant associate with right now. Seems like we could be talking nonsense, we dont know what's happening within. Giving us lack of reason to go over old issues. Not being rude but all issues from MO1 have been talked about in MO1 Forums. This is Mortal Online 2, let's assume everything changed until further notice. ?❤

Ok.

Again, there were problems in MO1 that persisted for years that they could have changed - but they didn't. Don't put words into my mouth otherwise, comparing Mining which even though is boring you at least had to be aware and move from node to node where butchery is quite literally reading books, standing at a bench and dragging & dropping things into a square for resource output. It's not engaging in the slightest - just like all crafting in-game.

That's my point. They have a fresh chance to start over. That's why it's GOOD to point out the wrongs of MO1, so they don't CARRY OVER into MO2. This is where you're not understanding me.

I don't put hope or trust into the idea, that builds up expectations; and expectations can be ruined and leave you feeling more disdainful towards who or whatever it is. Mortal Online 2 is very much a "Seeing is believing" project. The people who did buy the Conflux package, and do have hope and trust in Star Vault; awesome. They are their own people - I'm glad it makes them happy to play a combat alpha, for 150 USD. There is no envy or hate towards these people. It's just clear they either don't care about the price tag, or they have ignored a large part of the issues they dealt with from the previous game.. and have gotten inspired, hopeful, and had their expectations built up. Taking Star Vault at their word for the tenth time that they'll follow through on what they promise.

I want Star Vault to succeed, I want Mortal Online 2 to succeed. To say I want either to fail would honestly just be toxic and me being bitter, but genuinely I'd want to see it do great things. I'd love for all the things people suggest to get included - but I've also played this game for a long time and have followed the development of it as well. Mortal Online 1 that is, and time and time again it felt misleading to content patches that contained stuff that wasn't finished, buggy, or introduced a slew of unbalanced mechanics. Why is it wrong, or even 'inefficient' to make sure peoples opinions are heard to not let these terrible practices come back.

With the craftermule thing, that's exactly what it is. You can't rationalize it to anything else. If you told me you played in the game as only a crafter I would genuinely laugh at have a high amount of disbelief. Crafters are not interactive, engaging characters to play - unless you've managed to become filthy rich and your whole playstyle is that 'of a crafter'. Then sure - more power to you, but to the majority; walking from a bank to a workbench to drag and drop stuff is not an engaging play style on its own. Hopefully the skill pools again remedy this by giving players both combat skills and crafting skills - which sounds much, much better.

I'm not looking solely at 'old issues'. I'm saying these issues that persisted in MO1 for the longest time, should be the main concern for the well being of the game. To put it in a VERY EASY PERSPECTIVE. Here is a made up road map to help me explain what I meant.

1. Ships.
2. Instruments.
3. AI

This goes in order of highest priority, to lowest priority. Ships have the highest priority, while AI has the lowest priority. Now looking back at MO1, people wanted ships, and people wanted instruments. Did we ever get them? No. But people pleaded for them plenty of times. Yet people will choose to make noise over these two things, rather than saying "Hey. The AI in the game could be better, here is how..." etc.

Now this goes without saying, I'm not implying people didn't make threads or give feedback on AI. People obviously did - but this is when the game was retailed, and players were playing; and content was being developed. MO2 is still in the early stages of its life and I feel if this priority list showed up - I'd be very unhappy to see they'd hold priority over ships and instruments rather than creating AI.

I am also aware that Star Vault have managed to create a roadmap.

Notice how a lot of this stuff falls into the literal categories I provided. Bug fixes, combat input, prediction, skills, AI, dungeons, races, etc.

I'm not at all saying people shouldn't suggest new and fresh ideas - just I feel it's better if we give attention to what is more needed to build a solid foundation, then later as things go on; then really bring about those ideas when they have a stable working game with all the essentials tied into it.

Just to clarify for the third time - it was never about having tangible things to actually test. It was making sure that the problems of the past don't resurface into MO2. That was all. People get so caught up in projecting their wants onto a new game that they forget you have to have basic things worked on first, and in MO2's case - it is presented to us from Star Vault as a stepping stone to start anew. So lets keep them to that, lets make sure Star Vault doesn't veer off the path and make the mistakes of the path.

We should hold them accountable. As well as ourselves for trying to have our voices heard as loudly as possible when it comes to features that could definitely wait.

 

[Phen]

X.X okay go talk about old stuff again. I guess you need to hear what was already said once before.... understanding we dont know what's coming.... If you like go to Mortal Online. Hit forums and read away. We have been over lots and lots of issues we dont like nor want to see again. I'm sure they noted all these down and are TRYING to prevent them this time around. Enjoy your reading sir. Also comparing a trade to another trade is fair. Sadly you sat in one spot butchering while others like myself farmed mobs, butchered them and sold items to folks as they needed. Not so boring to me, then again that's a was my choice of play style vs yours..

 

[KermyWormy]

I mostly agree with the OP because I really feel like SV needs to almost forget about anything fluffy and creative entirely until they get the very basic and fundamental foundations of this new iteration as solid as can be, as boring as that may seems. They need to have everything tight and smooth and functioning, it needs to be fun to play and move around etc, combat needs to be balanced and the controls need to work properly. And I think they're doing this so far in the Alpha, to the point where if you've been messing around with it since it started it feels underwhelming at times in regards to what they've actually put in or tweaked since then, but their focus has been on movement, feel, and then making the different weapons do what they want them to and be functional. The other additions outside of combat stuff has been superficial things like night/day cycle and minimal facial hair, and like the tabs on the paper doll I think, might have forgot a thing or two, but the point is that everything is very basic, and I think the focus will continue along those lines because Henrik has said many times they're focusing on the core to make sure it's right and strong enough to actually hang features on as the rest of the game is implemented out and around that core.

Having said that, I don't mind people making crazy suggestions, I enjoy reading what people think could be possible in a game like this, it's entertaining at least, even if I know SV isn't capable of implementing those things any time soon. But hope springs eternal, if people don't think cool things like that are at least possible in the future then they struggle to see why they should stick around or be optimistic that the game will evolve to equal or hopefully surpass its predecessor. It doesn't bother me because I honestly do not think SV uses this community as a think-tank for ideas, in fact one could argue that they have struggled the most when they have tried to design and implement changes based on the lowest common denominators of their community and systems that Mats didn't have in the original set of systems and ideas from way back when.

So overall I don't mind people having imaginative discussions however unrealistic they may in fact be because I think it's actually a positive thing that keeps people engaged in the community while we wait for the game to develop more. SV knows what they want to put in the game, and I think by now they know what they are or are not capable of programming into the game as well, failure can be a great teacher, and I think what they've done so far and the simplicity of the roadmap we've seen show that they're sticking to the core functionality with no fluff probably even past when this game goes persistent because their timeline is just too short to even think about anything superfluous to the core.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

X.X okay go talk about old stuff again. I guess you need to hear what was already said once before.... understanding we dont know what's coming.... If you like go to Mortal Online. Hit forums and read away. We have been over lots and lots of issues we dont like nor want to see again. I'm sure they noted all these down and are TRYING to prevent them this time around. Enjoy your reading sir. Also comparing a trade to another trade is fair. Sadly you sat in one spot butchering while others like myself farmed mobs, butchered them and sold items to folks as they needed. Not so boring to me, then again that's a was my choice of play style vs yours..

I mean.

You obviously had to go kill mobs for carcass to butcher them, do you think it just magically appeared in my bank or inventory? Killing poorly scripted AI only to haul back carcass to then sit it in-front of a bench to process it isn't fun. If you think that IS fun, then.. I would be curious to find out what isn't enjoyable for that individual or as you say 'others'. Even though I've heard on the MO1 forums, in-game, on discord, from friends, and guilds I've been in that butchery is terrible. I've made a butcher - it's just a character that does nothing but butcher - wow, so fun!!

I don't think anyone has ever said "I sure do enjoy logging onto my butcher and butchering things!" You're literally dropping icons into boxes and then you can't move, you have to wait. Yes, this kind of game play should persist in MO2. /s

There is a difference in having grinds that are meaningful and not boring, and grinds that are meaningful and boring. Meaningful meaning useful and not entirely pointless. People made butchers to make gold or to get materials for crafters. Adding butchery didn't add some new super fluid dynamic to the market, or make people froth at the mouth at the idea of being one.

No, no. You made a character, popped books on him; and mostly walked from a banker to a table, then back to the bank.

If you're going to try and tell me "Well my character did everything!!" Well cool. I'm happy you found a happy medium in butchering one type of animal and being gimped elsewhere. It just isn't engaging, or good design. Bottom line.

So yeah. It'll be nice if instead I can finally have a character who can fight, and craft or butcher; or what ever I want on him. That way it's consolidated on one character and not split between 3-4 - basically killing my immersion and making the game a drag to re-log to a character that's only purpose is to drag things into GUI boxes.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

I mostly agree with the OP because I really feel like SV needs to almost forget about anything fluffy and creative entirely until they get the very basic and fundamental foundations of this new iteration as solid as can be, as boring as that may seems. They need to have everything tight and smooth and functioning, it needs to be fun to play and move around etc, combat needs to be balanced and the controls need to work properly. And I think they're doing this so far in the Alpha, to the point where if you've been messing around with it since it started it feels underwhelming at times in regards to what they've actually put in or tweaked since then, but their focus has been on movement, feel, and then making the different weapons do what they want them to and be functional. The other additions outside of combat stuff has been superficial things like night/day cycle and minimal facial hair, and like the tabs on the paper doll I think, might have forgot a thing or two, but the point is that everything is very basic, and I think the focus will continue along those lines because Henrik has said many times they're focusing on the core to make sure it's right and strong enough to actually hang features on as the rest of the game is implemented out and around that core.

Having said that, I don't mind people making crazy suggestions, I enjoy reading what people think could be possible in a game like this, it's entertaining at least, even if I know SV isn't capable of implementing those things any time soon. But hope springs eternal, if people don't think cool things like that are at least possible in the future then they struggle to see why they should stick around or be optimistic that the game will evolve to equal or hopefully surpass its predecessor. It doesn't bother me because I honestly do not think SV uses this community as a think-tank for ideas, in fact one could argue that they have struggled the most when they have tried to design and implement changes based on the lowest common denominators of their community and systems that Mats didn't have in the original set of systems and ideas from way back when.

So overall I don't mind people having imaginative discussions however unrealistic they may in fact be because I think it's actually a positive thing that keeps people engaged in the community while we wait for the game to develop more. SV knows what they want to put in the game, and I think by now they know what they are or are not capable of programming into the game as well, failure can be a great teacher, and I think what they've done so far and the simplicity of the roadmap we've seen show that they're sticking to the core functionality with no fluff probably even past when this game goes persistent because their timeline is just too short to even think about anything superfluous to the core.

Thank you. This is quite LITERALLY my point.

It was a glorified PSA that people should remember what game they came from, and to not forget that there were a horrific amount of issues plaguing it; it should be up to the fans and the community that we stay on top of Star Vault about building a solid foundation.

 

[Amadman]

I believe most of us that have been through it are not really under any delusions that SV will change the way they operate. Hopefully though they have listened all these years and do have some ideas on how they can do it better this time around.

I think SV was aware of most of the core issues and did listen to much of the suggestions/feedback. But it was easier said than done to just abandon what they already had and build up new systems. Now that they have the opportunity to start over again, it may be easier for them to implement more of these core changes.

I honestly cant say I have complete faith in SV to succeed, its more like hope for SV to succeed. But if they do not already have a good idea of MO's core issues at this point, then no amount of discussion here is going to fix it.

Even with that said, I still think all types of discussions and feed back is good at this point.

 

[Phen]

I mean.

You obviously had to go kill mobs for carcass to butcher them, do you think it just magically appeared in my bank or inventory? Killing poorly scripted AI only to haul back carcass to then sit it in-front of a bench to process it isn't fun. If you think that IS fun, then.. I would be curious to find out what isn't enjoyable for that individual or as you say 'others'. Even though I've heard on the MO1 forums, in-game, on discord, from friends, and guilds I've been in that butchery is terrible. I've made a butcher - it's just a character that does nothing but butcher - wow, so fun!!

I don't think anyone has ever said "I sure do enjoy logging onto my butcher and butchering things!" You're literally dropping icons into boxes and then you can't move, you have to wait. Yes, this kind of game play should persist in MO2. /s

There is a difference in having grinds that are meaningful and not boring, and grinds that are meaningful and boring. Meaningful meaning useful and not entirely pointless. People made butchers to make gold or to get materials for crafters. Adding butchery didn't add some new super fluid dynamic to the market, or make people froth at the mouth at the idea of being one.

No, no. You made a character, popped books on him; and mostly walked from a banker to a table, then back to the bank.

If you're going to try and tell me "Well my character did everything!!" Well cool. I'm happy you found a happy medium in butchering one type of animal and being gimped elsewhere. It just isn't engaging, or good design. Bottom line.

So yeah. It'll be nice if instead I can finally have a character who can fight, and craft or butcher; or what ever I want on him. That way it's consolidated on one character and not split between 3-4 - basically killing my immersion and making the game a drag to re-log to a character that's only purpose is to drag things into GUI boxes.

Each is there own. The wrong was was looked at this completely... my butcher didnt butcher everything... my butcher wasnt a pure fighter, my butcher did pop books, although he ran around freely doing little things to gain gold. Purely a gold getter, he mined particular stone, chopped one type of wood, butchered particular mobs. All in the goal of selling.

This game is ment to be enjoyed in a multitude of ways. Sense we have spoken up for years about how all the above changes can be done and it wasnt ever changed. They either weren't able to or had everything noted down for a future project.

Like any new game, its all trial and error until you can get feedback and move forward, past what WILL be changed in the future. We are just getting to the "Now" portion of the game, we have a "Past" to learn from, lastly is to project a "Future" plan using the "past" as lessons and listening in the "now" for future planning.

I personally think we have to wait before stepping over SV. Only because we have no idea what is to come. We only know a few little things, meaning we have now learned they ARE making changes. My apologies if we agree to disagree, although I would rather see what they are going to do before making any feedback on programming fixes.. The same reason I dont comment about PVP... havent tried so what can be said?

 

[Slammington Unchained]

wtf you guys writing longass novels for. didnt read, just voted no

 

[Neftan]

I mostly agree with the OP because I really feel like SV needs to almost forget about anything fluffy and creative entirely until they get the very basic and fundamental foundations of this new iteration as solid as can be, as boring as that may seems. They need to have everything tight and smooth and functioning, it needs to be fun to play and move around etc, combat needs to be balanced and the controls need to work properly. And I think they're doing this so far in the Alpha, to the point where if you've been messing around with it since it started it feels underwhelming at times in regards to what they've actually put in or tweaked since then, but their focus has been on movement, feel, and then making the different weapons do what they want them to and be functional. The other additions outside of combat stuff has been superficial things like night/day cycle and minimal facial hair, and like the tabs on the paper doll I think, might have forgot a thing or two, but the point is that everything is very basic, and I think the focus will continue along those lines because Henrik has said many times they're focusing on the core to make sure it's right and strong enough to actually hang features on as the rest of the game is implemented out and around that core.

Having said that, I don't mind people making crazy suggestions, I enjoy reading what people think could be possible in a game like this, it's entertaining at least, even if I know SV isn't capable of implementing those things any time soon. But hope springs eternal, if people don't think cool things like that are at least possible in the future then they struggle to see why they should stick around or be optimistic that the game will evolve to equal or hopefully surpass its predecessor. It doesn't bother me because I honestly do not think SV uses this community as a think-tank for ideas, in fact one could argue that they have struggled the most when they have tried to design and implement changes based on the lowest common denominators of their community and systems that Mats didn't have in the original set of systems and ideas from way back when.

So overall I don't mind people having imaginative discussions however unrealistic they may in fact be because I think it's actually a positive thing that keeps people engaged in the community while we wait for the game to develop more. SV knows what they want to put in the game, and I think by now they know what they are or are not capable of programming into the game as well, failure can be a great teacher, and I think what they've done so far and the simplicity of the roadmap we've seen show that they're sticking to the core functionality with no fluff probably even past when this game goes persistent because their timeline is just too short to even think about anything superfluous to the core.

This guy said it best. Not to mention, going forward, suggestions no matter how advanced are not intended to be shoved into the game right away - at least any I make. I post with the knowledge of SV's past, and don't let it hinder or jade me.

I look forward assuming they will correct mistakes, build a functional, solid core, and then move on to adding more. I have never wanted any idea I post to be something that gets chosen and worked on, instead of or before, a base game is created soundly (outside of my suggestions to base AI - something I feel is nearly vital for an MMO to survive).

BTW - impersonating Henrik, even if done by satirical means, is against ToS, as is taking any name or picture that does not belong to you.

 

[Kallardian Prince]

It will definitely be like MO1. The game will be at its best when it releases and get worse as they add "features". ?

 

[Handsome Young Man]

I believe most of us that have been through it are not really under any delusions that SV will change the way they operate. Hopefully though they have listened all these years and do have some ideas on how they can do it better this time around.

I think SV was aware of most of the core issues and did listen to much of the suggestions/feedback. But it was easier said than done to just abandon what they already had and build up new systems. Now that they have the opportunity to start over again, it may be easier for them to implement more of these core changes.

I honestly cant say I have complete faith in SV to succeed, its more like hope for SV to succeed. But if they do not already have a good idea of MO's core issues at this point, then no amount of discussion here is going to fix it.

Even with that said, I still think all types of discussions and feed back is good at this point.

I'm basically in the same boat as you.

This guy said it best. Not to mention, going forward, suggestions no matter how advanced are not intended to be shoved into the game right away - at least any I make. I post with the knowledge of SV's past, and don't let it hinder or jade me.

I look forward assuming they will correct mistakes, build a functional, solid core, and then move on to adding more. I have never wanted any idea I post to be something that gets chosen and worked on, instead of or before, a base game is created soundly (outside of my suggestions to base AI - something I feel is nearly vital for an MMO to survive).

BTW - impersonating Henrik, even if done by satirical means, is against ToS, as is taking any name or picture that does not belong to you.

I agree with the first two paragraphs, I don't really understand the third. Who is impersonating Henrik?

 

[Neftan]

I'm basically in the same boat as you.



I agree with the first two paragraphs, I don't really understand the third. Who is impersonating Henrik?

Your account.