The needful things - for beastmasters/tamers being viable

[ixxxo]

Essentials
* pet leveling and level locking
* pet trading
* proper pet follow (pet now switches to walk often even when far from you and gets stuck too easily, it requires a LOT of micromanagment)
* beastmaster attacks (at least some sort of linear curve for dps boost currently)
* clade gift bonus properly assigned on pet's kill
* pet returning to old stance once it kils or fails to kill target (now it just goes into 'stop' mode)
* pet defensive stance (was in MO1 I believe)
* breeding (later down the line)


Nice things to have
* veterinary
* pet armors? currently even 750 hp brownie is rather on the squishy end, specially in any-scale battles
* beast influence working - not sure how good this actually is, I believe it was rather ignored in MO1

What did I forgot?

 

[Jackdstripper]

I played a tamer/fighter a lot I early MO1 and let me tell you it’s always been nerfed into the ground. Pets have never had good pathing (you could just run away and they wouldn’t hit you), too easy to block ( centre block all attacks) , to hard to keep alive when focused fired (recalling pet always buggy. Easy blocks give counters that deal a ton of damage to the pet). Pets deal no damage to armoured players.
The only remotely useful pets were either the Sadducee lizards ( ranged damage) or things like spider queen that had special abilities.
98% of all other animals were almost completely useless in group fights. They always got focused fired at range and died super quick. I really don’t see SV changing their stance on fighting pets.they will never be very strong in pvp. More than likely you’ll have to wait for necromancy to provide decent fighting pets.

 

[Konrad]

mobs in mo2 do directional damage also there was more mobs than this that were useful in pvp, besides that pets in PvE were OP, I understand how much pain your average tamer/dominator had to go through but it wasnt as bad as people say it was..

 

[Jhackman]

Rare terror birds were op and bears did decently well in pvp

 

[LivingshadeNL]

Guy is right though , most of the pets are useless, and with current bow mechanics i imagine even the 1k hp pets will die like they are nothing

 

[ixxxo]

All good points. Well, currently it's not even possible to test this reasonably. Pathing is bugged, leveling is bugged, I just had pet on follow losing loyalty on me (while I just fed him 5 mins ago and had free PPs), and when I tried to retame it, it just disappeared into thin air. I guess we need to wait, but I am hoping SV will be giving them a lot of love, as this is unique and very rewarding playstyle (when things work and are balanced).

 

[ixxxo]

mobs in mo2 do directional damage also there was more mobs than this that were useful in pvp, besides that pets in PvE were OP, I understand how much pain your average tamer/dominator had to go through but it wasnt as bad as people say it was..

What does this mean? You can block and parry them? Didn't work for me when I tried against wild bears/wolves.

 

[Jackdstripper]

What does this mean? You can block and parry them? Didn't work for me when I tried against wild bears/wolves.

Haven’t tested it in MO2 yet but yes in the old game you could block and parry them and it was super easy because it was always centre block. Also bull molvas (huge rhinos) with armour had a ton of hp and damage resist so they could tank even spider queens in pve. They could even tank lictor guards as a matter of fact. It was a proven method to get lictor armour.

In pvp however all you had to do was keep moving and they would miss all their hits, so they were useless besides making for super cool, super tanky mounts.

hopefully in MO2 fighting pets aren’t as useless but I highly doubt SV will ever make them very strong.

 

[Speznat]

Essentials
* pet leveling and level locking
* pet trading
* proper pet follow (pet now switches to walk often even when far from you and gets stuck too easily, it requires a LOT of micromanagment)
* beastmaster attacks (at least some sort of linear curve for dps boost currently)
* clade gift bonus properly assigned on pet's kill
* pet returning to old stance once it kils or fails to kill target (now it just goes into 'stop' mode)
* pet defensive stance (was in MO1 I believe)
* breeding (later down the line)


Nice things to have
* veterinary
* pet armors? currently even 750 hp brownie is rather on the squishy end, specially in any-scale battles
* beast influence working - not sure how good this actually is, I believe it was rather ignored in MO1

What did I forgot?

I hope this helps:

 

[ixxxo]

Haven’t tested it in MO2 yet but yes in the old game you could block and parry them and it was super easy because it was always centre block. Also bull molvas (huge rhinos) with armour had a ton of hp and damage resist so they could tank even spider queens in pve. They could even tank lictor guards as a matter of fact. It was a proven method to get lictor armour.

In pvp however all you had to do was keep moving and they would miss all their hits, so they were useless besides making for super cool, super tanky mounts.

hopefully in MO2 fighting pets aren’t as useless but I highly doubt SV will ever make them very strong.

There certainly should be certain PVP viability of pets (not necessarily same pets as those viable for PVE). And I don't mean being straight out OP, but should be usable, not killable before it has a chance to meaningfully contribute to the fight and should bring some utility (eg. brown bears bringing charge with aoe knockdown which is pretty much unavoidable). Kiting pets should be straight far from possible, you need to be forced to deal with them, you can ignore them for some time, if you got good support, but you need to focus either master or the pet at some point.

If pvp pets reach this point, I'll be very happy as a beastmaster, yet without it, there's no point playing one in pvp (and if any build is not PVP viable, then we have a huge problem with 'one char per account').

 

[Solairerection]

What it needs the most is an overhaul in how handling the pet works. Active skills that you use to attack with (think spells for mages but for your pet) and a stamina bar, like everyone else has in the game, so they aren't just heatseeking missiles that you can return when they run into too much trouble.

I agree that they were very yanky due to the pathing and the majority of pets weren't that great, due to either damage, health or pathing. But the pets that were good were downright broken like Spiderqueen, Minotaur Guardian, Deathknight etc.
I hope that Starvault can turn it around this time, but it will require a lot from them, and I think it needs to include being a bit more active in handling your pet in combat, rather than putting all focus on obtaining and training them.

 

[Konrad]

They are already working on all of this, I mean even when they don't work on 'pets' but work on path finding, distance and damage balances for pets they are basically working on the pets, also right now we only have what 5 aggressive mobs that can be tamed? Freaking razorbacks can be deadly, bears can 1v1 every person in the game with a mage behind it, you can't expect a pet to go into 30 people group and manage to kill people and not die, if it did everyone would use pets lol, even Now when shit ton of things are unbalanced, pathing and mobs are bugged, the nod lines and crap like that pets can do some work if used right, and I mean it's just the beginning of everything, staur vault is doing work and I think dominators and tamers will get shit ton of love in mo2, just because of one mechanic they announced which is basicaly being able to mount most mobs in game. As you guys mentioned before there were pets in mo1 that could basicaly wipe small groups of people solo, now add an ability to mount those guys with better path finding and a mage on top, sorry but I'm fucking run away when I see some bs like that haha

 

[ixxxo]

They are already working on all of this, I mean even when they don't work on 'pets' but work on path finding, distance and damage balances for pets they are basically working on the pets, also right now we only have what 5 aggressive mobs that can be tamed? Freaking razorbacks can be deadly, bears can 1v1 every person in the game with a mage behind it, you can't expect a pet to go into 30 people group and manage to kill people and not die, if it did everyone would use pets lol, even Now when shit ton of things are unbalanced, pathing and mobs are bugged, the nod lines and crap like that pets can do some work if used right, and I mean it's just the beginning of everything, staur vault is doing work and I think dominators and tamers will get shit ton of love in mo2, just because of one mechanic they announced which is basicaly being able to mount most mobs in game. As you guys mentioned before there were pets in mo1 that could basicaly wipe small groups of people solo, now add an ability to mount those guys with better path finding and a mage on top, sorry but I'm fucking run away when I see some bs like that haha

I so hope you are right (about domintors/tamers getting much love, not about some pets being OP). Pity that with current state of things, getting decent bear and manage to bring it back home is already harder than using it in PVP, we will have to wait a bit and see how this plays. Also interesting note about most of the pets being mountable, I was not aware of this, that sounds fantastic, as currently with older brown bear you are already forced on your feet.

 

[Kaemik]

Mount armor honestly needs to be in next patch. Every single mounted build is nerfed without it. I think mounted melee is next patch or the patch after and it is going to be absolutely worthless with unarmored steppe horses as the only mount option. Seriously, imagine charging a roughly 300 health mount with zero armor into enemy melee combatants, even from the flank, and making it back out of arrow range alive. It's not like horses are small targets.

Pet armor wouldn't be a bad thing to throw in as well, though obviously visual representations of it might have to wait a hot minute. Alternatively, why not just give pets a natural armor value? That would have positive benefits to PvE as well as PvP. Nerf health on the creatures it makes too strong but like, a bear shouldn't take the same damage from an arrow a naked human does. Or a lizard the same damage as a bear. And spiders in the spider cave should get a ton given I can currently kill them on a naked mage with zero melee skills and a starter torch.

Also, when I am riding one horse, and leading another, there is a real life mechanic called a lead rope I can use to not have to babysit the 2nd horse the entire way. Please simulate this in-game. Any animal of same or higher speed than the person leading it should always stay within 20ft of the person leading it. If this somehow breaks, the game should continually teleport the animal back into lead rope range until it is. So freaking tired of it slowing me down to grab 2 horses when I am at spawn and randomly losing half them partway home due to glitches. If I am on a horse, leading a horse, and it falls more than 20ft behind. That is the game's fault not mine. Teleport my damn horse to me.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

Mount armor honestly needs to be in next patch. Every single mounted build is nerfed without it. I think mounted melee is next patch or the patch after and it is going to be absolutely worthless with unarmored steppe horses as the only mount option. Seriously, imagine charging a roughly 300 health mount with zero armor into enemy melee combatants, even from the flank, and making it back out of arrow range alive. It's not like horses are small targets.

Pet armor wouldn't be a bad thing to throw in as well, though obviously visual representations of it might have to wait a hot minute. Alternatively, why not just give pets a natural armor value? That would have positive benefits to PvE as well as PvP. Nerf health on the creatures it makes too strong but like, a bear shouldn't take the same damage from an arrow a naked human does. Or a lizard the same damage as a bear. And spiders in the spider cave should get a ton given I can currently kill them on a naked mage with zero melee skills and a starter torch.

Also, when I am riding one horse, and leading another, there is a real life mechanic called a lead rope I can use to not have to babysit the 2nd horse the entire way. Please simulate this in-game. Any animal of same or higher speed than the person leading it should always stay within 20ft of the person leading it. If this somehow breaks, the game should continually teleport the animal back into lead rope range until it is. So freaking tired of it slowing me down to grab 2 horses when I am at spawn and randomly losing half them partway home due to glitches. If I am on a horse, leading a horse, and it falls more than 20ft behind. That is the game's fault not mine. Teleport my damn horse to me.

Lol pets have natural armor, lets fix a.i first and then talk about balance. Last thing i want is pets to be OP and they will get nerved into oblivion and will not be usefull ever again.

 

[ixxxo]

Lol pets have natural armor, lets fix a.i first and then talk about balance. Last thing i want is pets to be OP and they will get nerved into oblivion and will not be usefull ever again.

I'd honestly prefer this, so it's not difficult to balance same way for all. Don't tell me fat bear with dense fur has same slash resist compared to domesticated pig.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

I'd honestly prefer this, so it's not difficult to balance same way for all. Don't tell me fat bear with dense fur has same slash resist compared to domesticated pig.

In mo1 every creature had its own resists, dont worry im sure this game has it to

 

[Kaemik]

In mo1 every creature had its own resists, dont worry im sure this game has it to

If it does, it does not have it at a useful value. Any physical attack aimed at mobs that don't have visible armor hits like a truck. I would disagree that this is a pets should be overpowered or undpowered issue. As I stated: "Nerf health on the creatures it makes too strong"

What it actually means is it's a counters issue. Specifically, archery and melee counter vs. magic counter.

Some creatures should have high health and low armor. Some creatures should have lower health and higher natural armor. Archers are going to do MUCH better against high health and low armor. But as a mage consider what happens when your target's health goes down and armor goes up. Your spells do the same damage, and there is less health to burn through. If this happened to ALL pets (Which it shouldn't) it would be an overall buff to mages.

This creates what I call a "self-balancing" feature in the community. Archery and melee too strong in the meta? Run anti-archer pets. Mages too strong in the meta? Run anti-mage pets. The community can somewhat balance itself by running counters to the meta.

 

[ixxxo]

Haven’t tested it in MO2 yet but yes in the old game you could block and parry them and it was super easy because it was always centre block. Also bull molvas (huge rhinos) with armour had a ton of hp and damage resist so they could tank even spider queens in pve. They could even tank lictor guards as a matter of fact. It was a proven method to get lictor armour.

In pvp however all you had to do was keep moving and they would miss all their hits, so they were useless besides making for super cool, super tanky mounts.

hopefully in MO2 fighting pets aren’t as useless but I highly doubt SV will ever make them very strong.

Very interesting information. By the way, we tested yesterday, with brown bear attacking foot veela (admittedly with not maxed stamina, but still 125 dex speed veela) and it was not hitting consistently, but was hitting enough (50-70% of hits maybe?) even when sprinting directly from him. So it seems this is already in better place than MO1.

 

[Konrad]

Very interesting information. By the way, we tested yesterday, with brown bear attacking foot veela (admittedly with not maxed stamina, but still 125 dex speed veela) and it was not hitting consistently, but was hitting enough (50-70% of hits maybe?) even when sprinting directly from him. So it seems this is already in better place than MO1.

Do basically can chase down the fastest build in the game that has to sacrifice crap ton of hp and dmg output to achieve that speed, OK... So basicaly you can't run away unless the pet will get stuck on something, yeah 'pets need buffs guys' for now it's already very fucking good, just let SV work on animals, path finding and shit, for now it is what it is, and honestly pets are op till we can parry them or actually outrun em... Atleast on a fastest build in the game...