The jumping spinning attacks need to be removed.

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

For anyone that says that the jumping spinning attacks are a "necessary evil" to have in the game or that its "skill" need to lay off the copium for real and just admit that the games combat needs to be fixed/reworked so its more realistic bc its probably the one thing most players do. reasons why;

1. The games steam store page literally says this "First-person immersive combat". Theres nothing immersive about the combat when you see players doing feats of the impossible by way of jumping and spinning 360 degrees and attacking at the same time

2. Seeing meta thursars and everyone else for that matter being able to jump and spin 360 degress then slash with a weapon in the oppostie direction is so unrealistic its actually laughable that its in the game in the first place... The weight of a character, the weight of their armor, the weight of their weapon makes doing these jumping spinning attacks impossible if you base it in reality. (Yes its a fantasy game ik and i get that the combat system currently makes it shit tier fighting but if you cope and continue the jumping spinning attacks instead of actually trying to get it changed it'll never get changed and we'll be stuck with it forever).

3. New players trying to go up against these spinny boys is next to impossible and people will just cope and say just learn how to deal with their attacks etc or learn the attacks yourself etc. Its not the base games combat mechanics and new players will see this shit and be put off how sweaty some people will go for an advantage to get the win.. How can you expect new players and even some older players who dont really dabble in pvp to try pvp if they cant even attempt to read the players attacks?


Just change melee combat already before anything else bc the game desperately needs it and it'll be better for everyone involved; Heres some ideas that could possibly help not saying these all need to be in game just ideas to put teh melee combat on a level playing field for everyone and not just cater to the sweaty spinny boys..

1. Add a proper feint mechanic bc the one thats in game already is too slow and its easily readable or make it to where we can feint closer to the end of the strike etc

2. Add some kind of inertia depending of the size/weight/race of your character that would stop or at least limit the jumping/spinning meta for pvp

im sure others probably have better suggestions how it could be changed but for real the combat in MO2 is whats holding the game back from actually being a great game along with a few other things but this is and should be at the top of everyone list not just for themselves but for everyone involved.

And to all those meta build spinny boys thatll get offended at this post.. you guys arent "good" you just use every meta, exploit, cheese method to get an advantage over others lol..

 

[Emdash]

And to all those meta build spinny boys thatll get offended at this post.. you guys arent "good" you just use every meta, exploit, cheese method to get an advantage over others lol..

Some are actually good. Some are actually using macros haha.

They just need to make it harder to block. If it's attack x and block x = block, that means no matter what you hide it as, if people can see it, they can block it. If you can do like MO1 and wait someone's block out and get between it (even if they are spamming it,) that is very helpful.

The game should prioritize aggressive fighting and clutch blocks.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Its pretty simple actually. Make it so pressing the jump button cancels any pre charged swing, and you cant re-charge the swing until your feet are on the ground again.

I really cant believe SV has allowed this spinning/jumping to go on for so long.

 

[Teknique]

I'm not really sure what the "solution" is. The combat system you have now was designed to reduced spinning. It really just made the game worse without changing any of the intended optics.

Just gave less outplay potential and more ping based.

 

[Rahz]

The thing is the spinning would need to be replaced with something. Without spins most attacks would be too easy to read. Maybe SV can do something with parry changes or Push. Like blocking into a push takes away a lot of stam or knocks you down if outstammed. But theres sooo much they could potentially do. Id also be for a grab that footies can use to grab and throw light builds and maybe some barrels based on strength.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Game needs inertia and momentum applied to foot fighters like it's applied to mounted. I hate the spins. It's beyond annoying to see in the game. I could care less about "duels will take forever without it". Shit is wack and looks like ass. They can remove charge flash and parry feints while we are at it.

 

[Marchioro]

For sure these solutions are not enough, but lets be honests... people played MO1 for more than 10 years without this shit technique and everything was fine. They should simple remove spininning without any compensation like they do with everything else, mainly magic.

 

[Teknique]

For sure these solutions are not enough, but lets be honests... people played MO1 for more than 10 years without this shit technique and everything was fine. They should simple remove spininning without any compensation like they do with everything else, mainly magic.

I’m an advocate of mo1 combat as it was in early alpha. I used to literally be sweating after duels with patwins. There are things they can do, making weapons feel like they have some actual weight to them. Mo1 combat looked terrible from the 3rd person but felt amazing from the first. The approach was looking better trumps feeling better. I disagree

 

[Marchioro]

I’m an advocate of mo1 combat as it was in early alpha. I used to literally be sweating after duels with patwins. There are things they can do, making weapons feel like they have some actual weight to them. Mo1 combat looked terrible from the 3rd person but felt amazing from the first. The approach was looking better trumps feeling better. I disagree

For sure remove things in this game without compensation are not good for anything... But historically Star Vault does that since MO1 and they still doing this approach until now. I simple don't understand why so much protection with melee combat when they simple don't care about the rest.

I would not be surprised with even when they introduce new mechanics for melee combat, they still keep this disgusting technoly (spinning) because they balance the game according to the opnion of few players in this game.

I don't care too much if they decide to keep spinning, technically you are free to give your back for anyone during a combat. However I would like to be able to simple instant kill, deal a lot of damage for free, if somene show me your back. This movements should be punished. With the current system we can not do that, because every single atack is based on charge or parry. Maybe they should implement "back" as separetd hit box from "torso" in which every single hit, even the non charged, would deal max damage with a bonus. Thies idea combined with the other one about momentum would change everything in combat, even for mages, like: You don't want to give your back in a combat! Don't run away with tower shields, just parry as normal people (altough mages indeed need real melee mechanincs).

Besides that, the game doesn't revolve around duels. You can play in Fab, strongholds or sometimes go out and find duels. You're listening this from someone whose half of its gaming time since launch has been solo-based. We know the game is "unfair" in terms of numbers, you can try to find a duel or walk alone in Nave and most part of the time you'll find some kind of group. even when you find a guy alone, there is a high chance he call for help. For example, you can enter the Risar Dungeon and look for a 1v1 with the so acclaimed Nightfall and notice that they will stop dueling you at the moment your presence becomes a nuisance, or running away and perform risar bombs. I'm not saying this is wrong or disgusting, this is a real combat in open world and people don't want to die. There is no such things as "honorable duels" in open world, at least not enough to be considering as a "fundamental"/core of the game. Therefore, if they have to chose between balancing melee combat, even the game as whole, for duels or group (every other cenario), they should choose the second one.

Yes, of course the best option must be a hybrid approach, but we know this is not the Star Vault modus operandi.

 

[MolagAmur]

They have a pts now. How hard would it be for them to try out new stuff on the pts and gather feedback? Melee is important, if not the most important, part of this game. It needs to feel good to play and play against. Right now its not even close to either. There is no excuse for them to have left it in this state since launch.

 

[Emdash]

Spinning sucks, but I've come to believe the actual problem is the time between attacks. In that way, stuff like flash charge is actually worse. It might seem good in theory to have people attacking every couple of seconds, but it falls into a rhythm too quickly.

Maybe the first attack would be something where people would be throwing up crazy feints, but once someone gets that first hit or advantage, they should be able to push the advantage until the other player 'clears,' so basically defends until they can deplete their stam or get a proper distance.

I didn't even parry (much) and I had a pretty good idea how to survive. In the first half of my health bar, I knew I probably could not die. There was no event that could lead to them being able to pressure me until I died until I got lower. That's just bad gameplay. That means for most of your bar, you are just like yeah this sucks... I'm losing... but it's not like I COULD DIE. MO1 had that wtf I died feeling, and I was a careful player then, too.

It takes like 10+ people to make you have that "what just happened" while looking at your death screen feeling, and that was an important part of MO combat.

 

[Teknique]

Spinning sucks, but I've come to believe the actual problem is the time between attacks. In that way, stuff like flash charge is actually worse. It might seem good in theory to have people attacking every couple of seconds, but it falls into a rhythm too quickly.

Maybe the first attack would be something where people would be throwing up crazy feints, but once someone gets that first hit or advantage, they should be able to push the advantage until the other player 'clears,' so basically defends until they can deplete their stam or get a proper distance.

I didn't even parry (much) and I had a pretty good idea how to survive. In the first half of my health bar, I knew I probably could not die. There was no event that could lead to them being able to pressure me until I died until I got lower. That's just bad gameplay. That means for most of your bar, you are just like yeah this sucks... I'm losing... but it's not like I COULD DIE. MO1 had that wtf I died feeling, and I was a careful player then, too.

It takes like 10+ people to make you have that "what just happened" while looking at your death screen feeling, and that was an important part of MO combat.

Yeah I agree with this. A large portion of your defense was positioning. Stickybacking someone 100-0 was a rare event and a standout play. Stickyback is free in mo2, infact its so unremarkable that I don't think anyone even has the term in their vocabulary anymore.

 

[Monco]

Spinning may look goofy but it's fun and satisfying. It's actually liked by many players including myself. It also becomes less and less effective the more players are involved in a fight. So sure, it's great for 1 vs 1 or even 2 vs 2, but if it's a 10 vs 10 you won't see players spinning left and right. I think it has a place in the game and it should remain. Having a spin macro isn't gonna turn you from an average fighter into a demon anyway...

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Yeah I agree with this. A large portion of your defense was positioning. Stickybacking someone 100-0 was a rare event and a standout play. Stickyback is free in mo2, infact its so unremarkable that I don't think anyone even has the term in their vocabulary anymore.

It's not even a real sticky back anymore. MO1 sticky back was literally that because you lost stamina for taking damage. I hear people say this now and just think, ok.

 

[MolagAmur]

MO1 sticky back was literally that because you lost stamina for taking damage.

We used the term long before they made it to where you lost stamina from taking damage. IIRC, being hit interrupted your sprint, so you had to hit shift again causing you to lose stamina. This was a bug that they then claimed to be a feature.

 

[Teknique]

It's not even a real sticky back anymore. MO1 sticky back was literally that because you lost stamina for taking damage. I hear people say this now and just think, ok.

Sprint break is something separate that no one really liked, because the speed of players and desync was much crazier. Stickyback was quite hard to do on the other hand.

 

[Emdash]

Sprint break is something separate that no one really liked, because the speed of players and desync was much crazier. Stickyback was quite hard to do on the other hand.

Maybe vs a good player haha.

But I mean that's the difference, when you came in on someone in MO1, you could overwhelm them and make them run. In MO2, running is stupid unless you have burst skills. I mean, I got away from a bunch of stuff, but I was a veela and I was only pressuring people until I felt like I might be vulnerable.

I'd say that in MO2, I never felt like people were crawling on my back as long as I had a veela. I felt very comfy going in and out. MO1, and some of it was lag and the fact my frame rate was low because my cpu was trash (and I didn't really know it was low and spiking,) I would just get overwhelmed with people who I couldn't even see and get battered sometimes.

Obviously that is an issue of desync, but I still prefer having that happen than what happened now.

It sucks because I got good at going in and out and pressuring people without them being able to swing back at me in beta, but since then as time went on just parried everything, it's like ah what a waste. I wish I had a chance at MO1 fighting now. I feel that sort of combat would be so much better.

It's hard to really overstate how bad it is that the default behavior is to just maybe strafe / move a little bit, but mostly just get ready to block. It might not have been realistic, but the wide movements in MO1 fights seemed a lot more skill based. Sure, you are feinting and spinning your mouse, but before you were running while strafing, feinting, managing stam (cuz you'd prol die if you didn't,) and trying to push people so that you could damage them enough to make them try to run.

The defensive skill based combat was probably the first downfall of MO. I think it turned a lot of people off in the beginning. Yeah, the skill cap is an issue, but mostly it's just not fun to learn, or it wasn't to a lot of people who I know quit the game because of that.

I learned to deal with it, and I'd probably still do archery or magery if I felt the game had some of the extra things I wanted, but they really have changed it too much with all the grinding mastery, etc. WHY CAN'T WE GO BACK???

 

[Teknique]

Maybe vs a good player haha.

But I mean that's the difference, when you came in on someone in MO1, you could overwhelm them and make them run. In MO2, running is stupid unless you have burst skills.

yep pretty much

 

[360TripleFeint]

Holy cope. This is literally what makes the melee in this game unique and creates a skillgap. I learnt it pretty fast honestly and so can everyone else. Those who REALLY CANT have other options to play the game, more than enough actually. L take

 

[Emdash]

Holy cope. This is literally what makes the melee in this game unique and creates a skillgap. I learnt it pretty fast honestly and so can everyone else. Those who REALLY CANT have other options to play the game, more than enough actually. L take

welcome to mofo haha. But yea I've been railing since this since beta. Maybe you've been playing it for a long time and just decided to make this post now, but there will come a point where you realize why it's bad. It's not to do with the spinning or feinting per se, but that's a symptom of the heavy limitations of the way combat is set up.

The assumption you are making is that this is the only way to have a skill gap.