The Game isn't Ready [Poll]

[Handsome Young Man]

I'm going to say that not having TC and base building / houses at release in MO1 also hurt that game too. If you don't have a siege mechanic, territorial control, bases to fight over what exactly are you fighting for? Bragging rights I guess, but it seems pointless and aimless. It seems like a core aspect of the game would be to own land and fight over it, but if you can't do that from the beginning and have to wait x months, I'm not sure the game will have enough to keep people coming back till then. This is a lesson the developers of LO learned as well, they didn't have the content, the game got stale and people left. Those people never came back.

As much as TC sucked in MO1, I have to agree. I don't really understand going into persistence without any way to self-sustain out in the world with some kind of housing system. Do they just expect people to live out of towns until it comes around? Just pay a sub for 3-4 months before I can actually build with my guild somewhere?

 

[Yeonan]

It's a double edge sword. Release with the bare minimal and an incomplete game loop will make the game look impotent and people will avoid it like the beer bug. An MMO with an incomplete or an even worse case, NO game loop is a death sentence. People generally aren't going to wait around for you to get your shit together. If they're going in to EA they need to have the majority of features of what makes the game the actual game, other wise people will just write it off as a completely aimless mordhau on a big map.

I don't disagree. I'd prefer they have robust PvE, magic, etc. before release, but they also have budget constraints which are clear in their decision to use store assets at the cost of unique art themes.

 

[Bordelli!]

I'm going to say that not having TC and base building / houses at release in MO1 also hurt that game too. If you don't have a siege mechanic, territorial control, bases to fight over what exactly are you fighting for? Bragging rights I guess, but it seems pointless and aimless. It seems like a core aspect of the game would be to own land and fight over it, but if you can't do that from the beginning and have to wait x months, I'm not sure the game will have enough to keep people coming back till then. This is a lesson the developers of LO learned as well, they didn't have the content, the game got stale and people left. Those people never came back.

People fought for ALL types of reasons outside of actual physical TC assets.
In MO1 ego was a LARGE driving factor in all types of conflicts.
Also, controlling the areas directly outside NPC towns spurred conflict without need of TC.
The Thrill of group fights brought people to towns for years, without anything to gain but some molarium armor.

TC is NOT necessary for conflict in these types of games, but it does bring in new reasons for conflict and politics. The type of conflict you typically get from TC is one of these two, or both used simultaneously.

1. Territory conflicts that encourage the creation of large alliances for beneficial asset protection and destruction.
2. Ninja sieging and drawn out small scale with extensive use of exploitative mechanics with the goal of crushing enemy morale.

Both long term lead to population drop off and stagnation.
EDIT - It also leads to population spikes to join in with these large scale conflicts. (Don't want to be overly criticle of TC conflict either)

I will give TC the benefit of creating unique political aspects within the virtual world though, which I enjoyed quite a bit for years in MO1. These politics, lead to conflict because of the main reason for conflict in MO1, Ego and the competitive nature of online gaming.

TC is just extra frosting on a cake. It should be the LAST and most thouroughly tested aspect of MO2 in my opinion.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

Can't believe people even want TC after what it did to MO1. That should be the LAST priority for Henrik and his team. We need combat balance and depth, then engaging PvE and crafting content and that will retain a player base.

Combat "balance" is entirely subjective and will only lead to them spinning their wheels, chasing their tails, etc. It's a wild goose chase, a snipe hunt, it is something that is near impossible to attain.

What SV should do is build the base mechanics into functionality. Once things work and work consistently, then ONLY THEN should they worry about end development shit like "balance". Because so long as one group is happy with the state of things, there will always be another group that cries "imbalanced! OP! Nerf now!"


No, TC, the world in general with its many continents, and game mechanics both early and endgame, creatures and AI, crafting and economy, lore all need to be prioritized before the endless chase for "balance".

 

[Handsome Young Man]

The point of this thread wasn't to argue what should and shouldn't come first, it's up for debate but we can all agree the path it's heading I don't think release (persistence) in a month is wise.

I do have to lean a bit on the idea that balance is kind of out of the window right now only because the game heavily encourages gear / numbers over skill. Cause a larger amount of players are able to PvP now, whilst more skilled players have to try that much harder to make a difference and work against a system that handicaps newer / worse players.

Flagging, AI / PvE, Mounts, Magic, Archery finished, and some light form of housing in my eyes is what is needed for a full release. Not to mention fixing this wack ass combat.

 

[Svaar]

To go into early access, there must be a foundation, this is a combat system, NPCs, a territory control system, construction, crafting, etc. Without these mechanics, people won't buy the game. We bought access because it was interesting to understand how mo2 differs from mo1, or just to see what it is. We gave information to a large circle of players. Now they looked at what the game is like. To be honest, from all my friends who have seen the game (who have not bought it yet) I will not buy the game in this form, and even more so pay a subscription. The game is interesting, but everyone is waiting for the full functionality of the game in order to eventually see what the game is.

 

[Svaar]

The point of this thread wasn't to argue what should and shouldn't come first, it's up for debate but we can all agree the path it's heading I don't think release (persistence) in a month is wise.

I do have to lean a bit on the idea that balance is kind of out of the window right now only because the game heavily encourages gear / numbers over skill. Cause a larger amount of players are able to PvP now, whilst more skilled players have to try that much harder to make a difference and work against a system that handicaps newer / worse players.

Flagging, AI / PvE, Mounts, Magic, Archery finished, and some light form of housing in my eyes is what is needed for a full release. Not to mention fixing this wack ass combat.

on the other hand, why do you think the game as it stands is their ceiling? You don’t think that Henrik doesn’t tell the audience that the game has been done for a long time and that there is a lot that we don’t know, but he doesn’t add it to the game. are you not considering this option? Why is there such confidence that there is nothing else?

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

on the other hand, why do you think the game as it stands is their ceiling? You don’t think that Henrik doesn’t tell the audience that the game has been done for a long time and that there is a lot that we don’t know, but he doesn’t add it to the game. are you not considering this option? Why is there such confidence that there is nothing else?

Because many of us know SV over years and years and educated cyncism tells us to take it all with a grain of salt and not hold our breaths.

 

[Kuroi]

indifferent

because i think Henrik is not stupid to stick with a plan of releasing by the end of the year just cause he wants to... he also said that mounts are really important for the game, so why shouldn't he just delay a bit until they are in? because there must be reasons, if they have deadlines that they MUST deliver we can't do shit.

 

[Eldrath]

We know that there are SOME things. How far along those are, how well thought out and balanced they - all that is open.

Looking at the way armor and weapon crafting was implemented they don´t have complete systems ready. Both were and still are basic with problems in many areas. There are useless parts, there are things that don´t make any sense, there is a lack of variety in outcome. All of that would need to be fixed to even archive the same level of complexity and generate the same amount of interest as those crafts did in MO1.

Now, translate that to all other crafts and systems that are still missing. Once they come in they will be broken and imbalanced, just as everything that came in so far. That should not happen when we are paying monthly, but in alpha/beta.

Once they introduce things to the paying customers I really hope that they start with a very LOW powerlevel. It´s always easier to buff somethign existing than to take away power. See TC/mounts/DKs.

 

[Rhias]

Henrik said combat AI (humanoids) e.g. Risars & Guards will be in before persistent world.
And I assume adding a few additional fleeing AI like pigs or wisent's isn't that hard eighter.

This means we would have for persistent state:
- Meele Combat
- Ranged Combat
- Armorcrafting
- Weaponcrafting
- Bowcrafting (I assume they're almost ready with it)
- Extracting
- Refining
- Gathering (Ore & Wood)
- Butchery
- Non attacking AI
- Attacking AI (humanoid)

Let's assume everything goes as planned, attacking AI is not fucked up and MO2 goes persistent next month.

What would be so bad about it?
You don't have mounts yet so it's probably not super easy too farm shitloads of stuff. Also I do expect that with housing/TC, pets/mounts,... farming will get a lot easier.
The only thing they need to take care is that they don't make the loot from the combat AI too op, or add other rare stuff that will give the early players a massive advantage.
With SV's current patch speed I assume that they patch Magic, Taming and Riding in Q1 2021. Housing/TC will be added probably early Q2.
But to be honest, no player starts instantly with housing/tc. First players need to level up their skills and manage a basic supply of e.g. metal, weapons,... That already takes weeks. And if those new features are in before players get bored it should be fine.

But one thing should be pretty clear:
They shouldn't fuck up the first impression of new players. No big steam advertisement until at least a decent tutorial is available to get new players into the mechanics/game.
And after some months, when the most "core" features are in and polished, make a big steam release party and everyone will be happy.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

But one thing should be pretty clear:
They shouldn't fuck up the first impression of new players. No big steam advertisement until at least a decent tutorial is available to get new players into the mechanics/game.
And after some months, when the most "core" features are in and polished, make a big steam release party and everyone will be happy.

Most importantly no tutorial or steam release should funnel new players to any town with a heavy murderer presence.

The disaster of Steam Launch funnelled tons of new players into Morin Khur which left them as prey to be victimized by RPK!'s relentless slaughter and griefing.

Truth be told it would have been far more intelligent to make them go to Beth Jedda!

The majority of noobs when creating a character will choose the first city that pops up in the options because they do not know any better about the environment. SV knows better and we as a community with experience know better. Either a noob island needs to exist with strict penalties against bad actors or city selection for character genesis should be highlighted with detailed and frequently updated explanations of the risks and rewards.

 

[Grisù]

Indifferent.
The game obviously is not ready.
Feedbacks has been widely provided by community, if they want to stick to their release plans it's ok.
But if we'll get same situation as MO1, this time please don't blame the "software" that doesn't let you do what you planned.

You do wrong 1st time, is software fault (just being gentle, it's called inexperience and it's good for 1st try);
You do wrong 2nd time, shame on you.

 

[Rorry]

Is it written somewhere that at persistent release the game will be up for sale and sub? Why couldn't they keep the alpha access and have persistence? The thing is without persistence non-combat systems will not be tested thoroughly as not enough people will spend enough time in the grind if their effort evaporates with a wipe.

We need to not confuse "persistent release" with "Steam release," "early access," or "game release."

Also, if a guild system not requiring a house is introduced, the game will be just fine without TC. Especially if there is no stat-loss requiring guild priests.

 

[Eldrath]

Every new system that handles materials has the possibilty of introducing a duping bug. That is one thing that barely gets mentioned, but obviously once the world goes persistent any dupe will have major effects.

Having more time with all material and gold related systems for testing would be beneficial. That´s why I don´t think you should go persistent before all of those feature are in and tested.

 

[Zeerey]

I also agree there needs to be a more solid foundations for players to enjoy during Early Access/Persistence.

As of right now these are the things we have and the things that should be in at EA launch

-Combat (we are unsure of how fleshed out and polished it will be in a month)
-Springboks (Very basic AI which simply flees)
-Crafting(also very basic and missing many core elements)
So these are the 3 core elements currently in the stress test which all of it is an amazing foundation but lacking a lot of depth

-Expanded Combat (It has been stated they will add more depth to it before persistence)
-More AI (While they have stated they intend to add more AI and creatures they also explained that they intend to keep it to a minimal so that everything can have a very polished feel)
-Expanded Crafting (They have stated they want to expand upon the crafting before persistence as well)
-More explorable locations (At the very least they intend to have all of the cities finished before persistence excluding Tindrem, with Tindrem they only intend to have a segment accessible)
-One school of magic

To my knowledge this is what they intend to launch persistence with and in my opinion its not enough in my opinion they need to launch persistence with the following
-Mounts/Taming ( I am putting these two together because they go hand and hand and I feel are a CORE mechanic for the game do to travelling and carry weight issues)
-Dungeons at least one ( I feel the players need a goal they need something to push towards and I feel a PVE goal is needed)
-Resource exhaustion (I feel that a lot of people will get annoyed when EVERY resource they go to gather is empty)

I feel with these three systems in play a lot more players will be happy with persistence launch and it will go a bit more smoothly but Im going to add another small section for icing on the cake
-Two Magic schools to start would be ideal
-Finish Tindrem before Launch
-More Creatures to make the world feel less empty
-Housing

Overall as you can see in my personal opinion the game needs more than one month of work before persistence because I feel first impressions are everything in the MMO community and as a passionate MO player I feel that launching a game without core mechanics in place is a really poor decsion by Star Vault because I want to see MO2 to reach places that MO1 was never able to and believe me I get that financial reason are probably responsible for the rush for launch but we aren't talking about a project being worked on by a money hungry company we are talking about a passion project by a small studio that loves their game idea and wants players to be able to experience it just as they envisioned

So please Star Vault think twice about pushing persistence take your time and release it right

 

[Skydancer]

Indifferent; the opinion of someone without full access to their business and investors is simply an uninformed speculation. Whether they should release depends on their:

1. Business strategy
2. Financials
3. Progress vs Internal roadmap
4. Codebase and asset maturity
5. Rate of internal development progress
6. Investor/board support

That's how business works, regardless of what we are shown. We experience what SV want us to test, when they want it tested, how they want it tested. As a developer, it's not always necessary to give users everything and the kitchen sink to test when you have very specific testing goals.

They know their game. They know their team. They know their environment. They will move into persistent state early access when they move into it because they think that it's the optimal time to do so based upon all data points at hand no matter how any of us perceive this decision, it will be the decision SV thinks is the best for the success of their game; even if it ultimately results in failure.

No developer knowingly works against their own self interest and speculation makes fools of us all. I guarantee SV have a great deal more knowledge than anyone in this thread on the state of their game so whatever decision they make, wait or not, will be their best decision based on their pooled knowledge and experience of the unseen.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Indifferent; the opinion of someone without full access to their business and investors is simply an uninformed speculation. Whether they should release depends on their:

1. Business strategy
2. Financials
3. Progress vs Internal roadmap
4. Codebase and asset maturity
5. Rate of internal development progress
6. Investor/board support

That's how business works, regardless of what we are shown. We experience what SV want us to test, when they want it tested, how they want it tested. As a developer, it's not always necessary to give users everything and the kitchen sink to test when you have very specific testing goals.

They know their game. They know their team. They know their environment. They will move into persistent state early access when they move into it because they think that it's the optimal time to do so based upon all data points at hand no matter how any of us perceive this decision, it will be the decision SV thinks is the best for the success of their game; even if it ultimately results in failure.

No developer knowingly works against their own self interest and speculation makes fools of us all. I guarantee SV have a great deal more knowledge than anyone in this thread on the state of their game so whatever decision they make, wait or not, will be their best decision based on their pooled knowledge and experience of the unseen.

What about MO1 then? Do we just instead remain silent? I'm not sure I fully understand, I grasp what you're saying but wouldn't releasing early from our perspective be bad?

I mean, let me simplify it.

How is it in a best games intrest to go full B2P + Sub in a game 6x the original map with no mounts? How are guilds going to truly unify without proper systems and some form of light TC? Do we just suck it up and deal with it?

"Just deal with it, pay them money while you wait on content to get better / be fixed / be added." I just dont see in a months time all these arising problems just magically being fixed.

 

[Armegeddon]

yess! the game needs

- mounts
- wildlife
- all resources
- populated dungeons
- at least one school of magic
- flag sytem and thievery
- working TC and guildstones
- at least 1 "world boss" like the kimuru or spider queen or thorax
- ovverall optimization, but the direction is way better than MO1 when it was at the same stage


then you can go for release. otherwise SV will burn the release, which is the most important stage of any MMO

Agreed 100%. These are minimums. Though Necromancy is the key to getting my GL into this... so if there is a way!!

 

[ThaBadMan]

For sure. The better the game is at release the better it will be period.
No rush, take your time and polish this so it shines bright.