Territory Control / Assets: Gates, they sucked. [Poll]

[Handsome Young Man]

Gates in MO1 were some of the biggest deterrents to PvP, it also encouraged really lazy levels of fighting others.

Get low? Run back inside. Gate auto-closes, but could be manually closed for faster 'cut off'.

My proposed solution.

1.) Gates have a 'use' timer. Gates do not open instantly. You must use it for 'X' amount of time.
2.) Gates do not auto-close. They must be manually closed via suggestion number '1'.
3.) Gates should have a cooldown on usage. If one player uses the gates, the cooldown should range anywhere from 10 to 15 seconds. Meaning the gate can't just instantly close back open opening.


What does this do?

1.) It creates actual 'danger' opening your gates near enemy players. People can now run in, fight, and run out; rather then risk getting caught in the infamous 'kill boxes' people would build.
2.) It would reward more aggressive play, whilst also punishing players for taking 'the risk'.
3.) It would allow thief-like characters, or those who are sneaky to infiltrate areas given the gate is on a timer as well as needing someone to manually close it.


Optional Idea, though not the main focus.

If players are super opposed to an idea like this - I'd forward this idea in conjunction with this one: If you wish to keep your instant open / close gates, it needs to be done by using a key. The key can then be stolen / taken off a body if people pursue you to access said gate. This would balance it out also in my eyes.

 

[Xunila]

Some nice ideas! If I get the comments of Henrik in several Discord discussions right, then walls and gates are only possible next to keeps but not for houses with guild stone inside like in MO1.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Some nice ideas! If I get the comments of Henrik in several Discord discussions right, then walls and gates are only possible next to keeps but not for houses with guild stone inside like in MO1.

That'd be pretty cool.

 

[Falcon]

I'd prefer the key system, but limit the way you get your key, and limit peoples ability to just change the locks or delete the key.

 

[AidanKyros]

Could always add "mechanics" that open and close the door similar to how the anchor/sails/etc.. work in games like sea of thieves.

Open/Close by doing X task, X task can be shared for quicker use, if someone invades they can take over the gate opening device, it's the most realistic approach.

 

[Kaemik]

I'd prefer there just not be any resources of value immediately next to keep spots. Given walls are now supposed to be confined to keep areas, if you can make it to your keep when attacked it should offer safety. It should be on gankers to plan out attacks in such a way that their enemy cannot reach their keep alive.

 

[Rudakov]

I have to say that author of this thread is a di** head but I’m absolutely agree that gate abuse was horrible. And closing and opening of the gates have to be harder or longer then before to make people not use it in pvp like Lifebuoy

 

[Rorry]

Quick safety is the problem. Every fight gets to be standing outside of a gate waiting for your opponent to outnumber you and then when you start beating them they just run inside.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

I'd prefer there just not be any resources of value immediately next to keep spots. Given walls are now supposed to be confined to keep areas, if you can make it to your keep when attacked it should offer safety. It should be on gankers to plan out attacks in such a way that their enemy cannot reach their keep alive.

Just, no. You're missing the point entirely.

A lot of fights HAPPEN at gates because people can spam open / close them to avoid dying.

I'm proposing gates don't do that, because gates don't actually work like that anyway.

If you open your gate, it shouldn't be able to close instantly. It's just dumb.

I have to say that author of this thread is a di** head but I’m absolutely agree that gate abuse was horrible. And closing and opening of the gates have to be harder or longer then before to make people not use it in pvp like Lifebuoy

I mean you don't have to. Lol?

Quick safety is the problem. Every fight gets to be standing outside of a gate waiting for your opponent to outnumber you and then when you start beating them they just run inside.

Ayep.

Groups should have risk involved when opening their gates. The way it was before was terrible.

 

[Kaemik]

Just, no. You're missing the point entirely.

A lot of fights HAPPEN at gates because people can spam open / close them to avoid dying.

I'm proposing gates don't do that, because gates don't actually work like that anyway.

If you open your gate, it shouldn't be able to close instantly. It's just dumb.

And if guards are useful they still will happen near keeps gate abuse or no because people are going to run inside the range of their guards to take fights if you let them. Assuming there are ranged guards they won't even need to get inside.

The immediate proximity of someone's keep should not be a good place to take fights as the aggressor by whatever mechanic is used be it the ability to run for safety inside their walls or guards that will cut you down in a hail of spells and arrows if you range too close.

But given you are limited in where you can put a keep in MO2, the immediate proximity of someone's keep shouldn't be a place they regularly stay. They should need to range out a bit to find anything of worth.

Part of the point of having a Player-Owned-Structure in any PvP title should be that it's a good fallback point if you're out in the field and get set upon by a superior force. It's up to the superior force to kill them before they reach safety.

And fights happen wherever the aggressor chooses to take them. Don't hunt right next to people's keeps if you don't want fights to happen there. If any significant amount of your opponents are running into the safety of structures, and the devs didn't put too many valuable resources right next to those structure locations, then that sounds like your problem as opposed to a problem with the game.

 

[Rorry]

And if guards are useful they still will happen near keeps gate abuse or no because people are going to run inside the range of their guards to take fights if you let them. Assuming there are ranged guards they won't even need to get inside.

The immediate proximity of someone's keep should not be a good place to take fights as the aggressor by whatever mechanic is used be it the ability to run for safety inside their walls or guards that will cut you down in a hail of spells and arrows if you range too close.

But given you are limited in where you can put a keep in MO2, the immediate proximity of someone's keep shouldn't be a place they regularly stay. They should need to range out a bit to find anything of worth.

Part of the point of having a Player-Owned-Structure in any PvP title should be that it's a good fallback point if you're out in the field and get set upon by a superior force. It's up to the superior force to kill them before they reach safety.

And fights happen wherever the aggressor chooses to take them. Don't hunt right next to people's keeps if you don't want fights to happen there. If any significant amount of your opponents are running into the safety of structures, and the devs didn't put too many valuable resources right next to those structure locations, then that sounds like your problem as opposed to a problem with the game.

You don't actually get to choose where fights are as the aggressor, they are where you find them. It doesn't matter where they start either because people can run for a long way to get to their safe zone, which causes everyone to just play mounted characters, which I do not enjoy .

 

[Blood Thorn]

2.) Gates do not auto-close. They must be manually closed via suggestion number '1'.

Seriously? Auto-close? Of course they should have to be manually closed.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Seriously? Auto-close? Of course they should have to be manually closed.

They auto closed in MO1 unless you manually did it to speed it up.

 

[Kaemik]

You don't actually get to choose where fights are as the aggressor, they are where you find them. It doesn't matter where they start either because people can run for a long way to get to their safe zone, which causes everyone to just play mounted characters, which I do not enjoy .

You find fights where you look for them. And you can always have people in your group whose role is to confirm kills. Not everyone in your group needs to be a tackler to confirm kills.

 

[Teknique]

A good fall back point, doesn't have to be an extraordinarily good fall back point.

There was a gentleman awhile back conflating a "defensive advantage" with the near total immunity of MO 1.

You can still have a defensive advantage without killing the flow of the game.

 

[Kaemik]

If you can stick up walls wherever you want all over the map then they shouldn't be a great fallback point. But given there are a limited number of keep spots chosen by the devs now and apparently those are the only places we can put walls... as long as they say, don't have super valuable resources in the immediate vicinity I think having them be a "made it home now I'm safe" style fallback point is not only fine but preferable. Territory control should mean something. Hit people at tephra crater. Hit people as they're leaving a dungeon with loot. Hit people in gabore valley or bodyblock them in to the GK mines / ambush them as they're refining.

But if you go to keeps looking for ganks, well, that's on you if they get inside.

I'm not really against the particular idea gates shouldn't be insta open/close. But I'm against the idea people falling back to their keeps saving them is a bad thing. If you can only find people right outside their keeps it's a problem with resource allocation in relation to keeps, or the places you go to look for fights, not the keeps themselves.

 

[Goltarion]

If its true that walls and gates will be limited to keeps, this wont be as much of a problem.

 

[Rorry]

You find fights where you look for them. And you can always have people in your group whose role is to confirm kills. Not everyone in your group needs to be a tackler to confirm kills.

What are you even talking about? If
the group you want to fight isn't new and you are all on foot and they choose to run to their keep then there will be nothing you can do about it.
Trust me , it would be great if you could find fights where you looked for them. I would never have to stand outside of a town and fight in a guard zone or gate then. That would be a better game!

 

[Kaemik]

What are you even talking about?

You are fighting 3 guys. It's a 3vs.3 of Thursar footfighters except your side has an Alvarin (A fast footspeed race) hybrid. One of their guys breaks to run for their keep. Your Thursars stay in the main fight, your hybrid breaks to pursue the runner and confirms the kill.

They all see you coming and all break to run together? Some of them will make it away for sure but if your hybrid is good you might still be able to isolate and kill one of them. If you get the drop on them your hybrid doesn't even need to be that good / you might be able to get more than one of them.

That's what I'm talking about. Not everyone needs to play the role of a kill comfirmer for your group to confirm kills.

Now if you want to confirm kills on all 3 easily, 100% of the time and run a fully effective combat group... good luck. You're going to have trouble finding that in any open-world PvP setting in any game. Asking for that is essentially asking for ganking to be a no-skill activity.

Ganking isn't just about winning fights, it's about looking for them in the right locations, engaging in the right way, and having the proper team comp to confirm your kills. If you want to run all slow FF and then gripe when your opponents get away... that's a you problem. Not a problem with the game.

 

[Rorry]

You are fighting 3 guys. It's a 3vs.3 of Thursar footfighters except your side has an Alvarin (A fast footspeed race) hybrid. One of their guys breaks to run for their keep. Your Thursars stay in the main fight, your hybrid breaks to pursue the runner and confirms the kill.

They all see you coming and all break to run together? Some of them will make it away for sure but if your hybrid is good you might still be able to isolate and kill one of them. If you get the drop on them your hybrid doesn't even need to be that good / you might be able to get more than one of them.

That's what I'm talking about. Not everyone needs to play the role of a kill comfirmer for your group to confirm kills.

Now if you want to confirm kills on all 3 easily, 100% of the time and run a fully effective combat group... good luck. You're going to have trouble finding that in any open-world PvP setting in any game. Asking for that is essentially asking for ganking to be a no-skill activity.

Ganking isn't just about winning fights, it's about looking for them in the right locations, engaging in the right way, and having the proper team comp to confirm your kills. If you want to run all slow FF and then gripe when your opponents get away... that's a you problem. Not a problem with the game.

No, that is a you not knowing MO problem. Your hybrid isn't going to run down and kill a foot fighter, your hybrid will be very slightly faster, true, but will have much less stamina, i.e. not enough to kill an armored foot fighter. The way MO2 has the stam set up and with the long time to kill, it will be even worse than MO1.
The only way you will get a kill if they decide to run in your scenario is if your opponents are new or absolutely unskilled.