TC Guards and other NPC - We do really need less?

[Neftan]

I feel like a lot of the people posting did not really read my entire post.

Some have repeated things I already said, most are neglecting the 8 hour downtime coverage, and no one has visited or referenced the other linked threads that I tied in with the post.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

I feel like a lot of the people posting did not really read my entire post.

Some have repeated things I already said, most are neglecting the 8 hour downtime coverage, and no one has visited or referenced the other linked threads that I tied in with the post.

Are you American or are you just more ignorant than Americans? We the People of the United States do not read fine print in whole (or sometimes in part). We eyeball the most eye-catching things then base our response on those things. That's why all our news media like FOX News has all their headlines ontop of a scary red banner.

You're better off asking us to lose weight than to ask us to visit and reference other linked threads in order to make informed/educated responses.

 

[Meridian]

I think NPC's should be kept to a minimum and TC Guards be kept at zero. It is up to the players' to defend their base, not AI.

In my opinion it's enough that NPC towns' cover the bare necessities such as a basic vendor (bandages, shortswords/pickaxes, regeants), banking, veredari, trade broker, inn/tavern-keeper and a functional guardforce (ie protects the town boundaries, nothing more). The services could be bought through contracts to apply for a TC-built town, except for guards which will be handled by players.

If players slept at their keyboards and were ready to go 24/7, this could work. But, in a game where people have to sleep while others are just getting the on makes this difficult. It’s already difficult having a guild with multiple time zones. As good as the fantasy of “hardcore leave it up to the players, minimal NPC’s” sounds, it will make the world feel empty, again. When MO’s population dropped off, seeing a static utility vendor wasn’t very inspiring. I think the game needs more NPC’s, maybe not in the sense of combat NPC’s. Leaving it up to players, when a game has a hard time retaining a strong player base, makes leaving things up to players, moot. I remember the early days of merc guilds who would be hired as guards. Didn’t last... bad apples and diminishing numbers because there wasn’t enough business, because most of the player base needing it, quit. I think the primary objective of SV should be player retention, not “hardcore” player retention.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

If players slept at their keyboards and were ready to go 24/7, this could work. But, in a game where people have to sleep while others are just getting the on makes this difficult. It’s already difficult having a guild with multiple time zones.

Not a problem. I was part of many guilds that kept firewatch; we would rotate who would go to sleep and who would watch over the game with everyones contact information posted to a spreadsheet.

And as for your comment on "hardcore" player attention; having a bunch of carebears like the ones that came into steam release that complained about full loot pvp, limited tutorials, griefing etc is not healthy for the game. Hardcore or no-core.

 

[Meridian]

Not a problem. I was part of many guilds that kept firewatch; we would rotate who would go to sleep and who would watch over the game with everyones contact information posted to a spreadsheet.

And as for your comment on "hardcore" player attention; having a bunch of carebears like the ones that came into steam release that complained about full loot pvp, limited tutorials, griefing etc is not healthy for the game. Hardcore or no-core.

Complainers will never last in a full loot game. But, we do need a good balance of players, those who like like to PvP, those who like to PvE, those who like to craft, and those who like a bit of everything. Retention of players who enjoy the game is important, we lost way too many over the years. MO just got boring. Sarducca, which I didn't like much, did added more "content", which kept us busy and fights happening, but it got boring again and players spread too thin.

 

[Amadman]

Not a problem. I was part of many guilds that kept firewatch; we would rotate who would go to sleep and who would watch over the game with everyones contact information posted to a spreadsheet.

Not sure how serious you are seeing most of your other post, but This is the first thing I have read from you here that I have to agree with. There is no reason that guilds can not recruit players from different time zones.

 

[Neftan]

If players slept at their keyboards and were ready to go 24/7, this could work. But, in a game where people have to sleep while others are just getting the on makes this difficult. It’s already difficult having a guild with multiple time zones. As good as the fantasy of “hardcore leave it up to the players, minimal NPC’s” sounds, it will make the world feel empty, again. When MO’s population dropped off, seeing a static utility vendor wasn’t very inspiring. I think the game needs more NPC’s, maybe not in the sense of combat NPC’s. Leaving it up to players, when a game has a hard time retaining a strong player base, makes leaving things up to players, moot. I remember the early days of merc guilds who would be hired as guards. Didn’t last... bad apples and diminishing numbers because there wasn’t enough business, because most of the player base needing it, quit. I think the primary objective of SV should be player retention, not “hardcore” player retention.

Good post.

 

[Kavu]

Good post.

Then just LIKE it next time! ?

 

[Meridian]

Then just LIKE it next time! ?

Funny post.

 

[Kavu]

Funny post.

Okay, you win I backed myself into a corner with that one, point at me and laugh.

 

[Solairerection]

If players slept at their keyboards and were ready to go 24/7, this could work. But, in a game where people have to sleep while others are just getting the on makes this difficult. It’s already difficult having a guild with multiple time zones. As good as the fantasy of “hardcore leave it up to the players, minimal NPC’s” sounds, it will make the world feel empty, again. When MO’s population dropped off, seeing a static utility vendor wasn’t very inspiring. I think the game needs more NPC’s, maybe not in the sense of combat NPC’s. Leaving it up to players, when a game has a hard time retaining a strong player base, makes leaving things up to players, moot. I remember the early days of merc guilds who would be hired as guards. Didn’t last... bad apples and diminishing numbers because there wasn’t enough business, because most of the player base needing it, quit. I think the primary objective of SV should be player retention, not “hardcore” player retention.

I understand that someone choosing the townlife would enjoy having NPC's around. Aslong as they are doing some kind of activity (trading, manufacturing, dancing, you name it) it will be fine. But having them just wander around aimlessly can be just as uninspiring, I think.

I simply disagree that NPC guards for player controlled territory is the right way to go for combating off-hour sieges. AI can be exploited to make them too easy to circumvene and will inevitably be buffed to similar levels of what we see in MO1 today, maybe even worse than that. I find that the option to declare a siege a much more viable option, giving you an agreed upon time-window to siege. It will serve the same purpose as NPC guard's would, but without having to go through the effort of coding and balancing NPC guards.

It will be interesting to see what Starvault is able to do with their AI. Dream scenario for NPC towns would be having guards having to rely on the same ruleset as players regarding aiming and speed, similar to bots in FPS games; having mixed groups of melee fighters and archers, with a set border around town where they will engage unlawful players that will also act as a maximum engagement range for NPC fighters, aswell as a outer border that will act as a maximum range for when Archer NPC's will stop firing at you.
As stated above: Having NPC's performing tasks, even if looped behaviour, would be much more interesting to look at rather than having NPC's wandering around aimlessly.

 

[Phen]

I think NPC's should be kept to a minimum and TC Guards be kept at zero. It is up to the players' to defend their base, not AI.

In my opinion it's enough that NPC towns' cover the bare necessities such as a basic vendor (bandages, shortswords/pickaxes, regeants), banking, veredari, trade broker, inn/tavern-keeper and a functional guardforce (ie protects the town boundaries, nothing more). The services could be bought through contracts to apply for a TC-built town, except for guards which will be handled by players.

Henriks explained the guards as a NPC that players control, so you would have to gear them up with weapons and armor. A player would have to supply a guard or gaurds. Guards he mentioned would have a salary and will be needing equipment too.

I think Henrik has a good idea. Its definitely not the old AI anymore. Gaurds would be a large expense to anyone who owns them. Mainly due to resupply if one dies, or upkeep costs due to salaries.

 

[Amadman]

Henriks explained the guards as a NPC that players control, so you would have to gear them up with weapons and armor. A player would have to supply a guard or gaurds. Guards he mentioned would have a salary and will be needing equipment too.

I think Henrik has a good idea. Its definitely not the old AI anymore. Gaurds would be a large expense to anyone who owns them. Mainly due to resupply if one dies, or upkeep costs due to salaries.

Yeah, I really liked the sound of that as well. If they are able to fix the ai along with these changes then the guard thing will be something totally new to evaluate on its own.

 

[Kavu]

It will be interesting to see what Starvault is able to do with their AI. Dream scenario for NPC towns would be having guards having to rely on the same ruleset as players regarding aiming and speed, similar to bots in FPS games;

I mean the whole shooting through walls thing was never hard to fix unless theres some wall of spaghetti code that they had to fight.

Unreal Engine is an object based engine so you should be able to just slap a transform on the bots dome, draw a raycast between said transform game object and the player, if it hits a mesh anywhere in between, you can't fire.

Ta da, no more shooting through walls.

Would wager this is already how player aim worked but from the player camera.

I know this is backseat pseudo code, but I'm not shutting up til the driver tells me to.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

Henriks explained the guards as a NPC that players control, so you would have to gear them up with weapons and armor. A player would have to supply a guard or gaurds. Guards he mentioned would have a salary and will be needing equipment too.

I think Henrik has a good idea. Its definitely not the old AI anymore. Gaurds would be a large expense to anyone who owns them. Mainly due to resupply if one dies, or upkeep costs due to salaries.

Could you imagine an army of guards armed with flakestone spears and bone tissue/cotton armor?

A sea of donkey blood

 

[Kavu]

Oh boy, I was digging around through a couple of my old YouTube accounts found a video from when merc guards were OP and HERJ lead one into Bakti.
Merc sends a dude into the freaking stratosphere at one point.

 

[Phen]

Could you imagine an army of guards armed with flakestone spears and bone tissue/cotton armor?

A sea of donkey blood

Haha, oh I'm sure that will happen at some point. People will think they are great cuase of town gaurds, when they will forget to upgrade the guard itself. Also have to equip them properly like you would yourself. While keeping up with a salary wage. Oooof....

A: Sounds expensive. (Which seems fair)
B: At least someone can actually solo without needing 10 friends at their disposal.
C: Could be awesome to hire a guy to protect you when gathering or traveling.
D: Will make fun great siege battles! No one would have to be there for a fight to happen. (Assuming people build their guards right.)
E: LOTS of extra gear floating around!!!

Oh I cant wait to see the blood trails! I can smell the pools of blood already. Poor fools who think a decent gaurd with good equipment and resources will compair to the actual players.. The looting will be glorious!

 

[Phen]

I mean the whole shooting through walls thing was never hard to fix unless theres some wall of spaghetti code that they had to fight.

Unreal Engine is an object based engine so you should be able to just slap a transform on the bots dome, draw a raycast between said transform game object and the player, if it hits a mesh anywhere in between, you can't fire.

Ta da, no more shooting through walls.

Would wager this is already how player aim worked but from the player camera.

I know this is backseat pseudo code, but I'm not shutting up til the driver tells me to.

You've played MO enough to know something in the coding was funky from the start.

I feel like they took an odd approach to semi hide it. Just because it would push everyone away knowing nothing will be implemented properly. Although I am really happy they went the way they did. Otherwise the game wouldnt have gotten very far. They got feedback for nearly 15 solid years. All the suggestions and frustrations noticed every time they go about anything. So they at least have a book of, "what worked" , "what didnt work" , and a better idea of foundation that opens the game to more possibilities.

I think this MO2 will dramatically surpass MO1 by every means. Shit.... we already got another swing! That's like 1/4 better for foot combat already!!

 

[Kavu]

I think this MO2 will dramatically surpass MO1 by every means. Shit.... we already got another swing! That's like 1/4 better for foot combat already!!

2 > 1
It's twice as high of a number, its gotta be good.

 

[Phen]

I think NPC's should be kept to a minimum and TC Guards be kept at zero. It is up to the players' to defend their base, not AI.

In my opinion it's enough that NPC towns' cover the bare necessities such as a basic vendor (bandages, shortswords/pickaxes, regeants), banking, veredari, trade broker, inn/tavern-keeper and a functional guardforce (ie protects the town boundaries, nothing more). The services could be bought through contracts to apply for a TC-built town, except for guards which will be handled by players.

What if the player supplied everything to the AI they hired to protect their place? Seems fair.. they wanna pay up for a gaurd blood bath, let em. They wont be all tweeky and shooting through shit this time.