Taming and Animal Care (As they are now) Should be Crafting Skills

[bbihah]

We are hopefully seeing changes in both where points are as well as how many points and the actual skills, which are parents and sub skills when they are getting closer to releasing the features anyway. Right now its just a copy paste from MO1 as a placeholder.

Also fishing is a weird one, it is still under survival on the action tab, but not seen at all in the profession tab unless searched on. Its not been decided where its going to land in the tree I assume.


It is very likely we are getting a skill focused on crafting necessities in the wild and it will probably land under that, sort of the survival crafts as opposed to the survival actions (swimming only for now).

 

[Kaemik]

Yes. Anything that gives you an advantage DURING combat is an action skill. Weaponsmithing belongs in professions because the smith and the fighter don't have to be the same character. Character A makes the super-uber-oghmium sword. Character B the musclebound meathead Thursar who hasn't even touched his crafting skills other than maybe mining wields it.

But if they said "announcing soulbond swords, you have to make it to wield it!" the skills needed to make that sword would belong solidly under action skills.

And I get it, you're convinced that they shouldn't implement my suggestion because I'm not being nice to you. But I do find it hard to be nice when I spent 39$ to get access to this based on the promise "crafting and combat have finally been separated" and then a bunch of people think it a fun exercise of thought to justify to me why MY crafting skill deserves to get the shaft, but not theirs.

 

[Necromantic]

Also fishing is a weird one, it is still under survival on the action tab, but not seen at all in the profession tab unless searched on. Its not been decided where its going to land in the tree I assume.

I was actually about to post the exact same thing "I just noticed Fishing is not listed in the Professions list unless you specifically filter for it. So they must have moved that and fucked something up."

Also doesn't help that the skills window constantly bugs out:

But if they said "announcing soulbond swords, you have to make it to wield it!" the skills needed to make that sword would belong solidly under action skills.

So what if it's the normal sword crafting skill just with special items and mastery?

And I get it, you're convinced that they shouldn't implement my suggestion because I'm not being nice to you. But I do find it hard to be nice when I spent 39$ to get access to this based on the promise "crafting and combat have finally been separated" and then a bunch of people think it a fun exercise of thought to justify to me why MY crafting skill deserves to get the shaft, but not theirs.

I don't care about who is nice to me or not. I don't care about admitting being wrong at times either as seen above. I just don't like the whole perspective of "my wants, my plans, my assumptions" being constantly the center part. And I still don't consider taming "crafting" no matter what. It has way more general utility implications than trade implications.

 

[Kaemik]

It's really rather funny. When they said crafting and combat were two separated profession lines the first thing I thought is "Finally, I don't need a PvP and PvE tamer as separate characters! And sweet! My fiance can be a thief AND a fighter! This is awesome!" *Pays to get alpha access*

Then they manage to screw up two professions. The only two I care about. XD

 

[bbihah]

Things are not final and its just a rough toss up from the split.

 

[Kaemik]

That's my hope. Hopefully they see how keeping professions under combat tree is a violation of the changes they promised to make in MO2 and ignore people saying otherwise just like they should have ignored people saying races were balanced in early MO1.

 

[Necromantic]

As I said, I don't care either way, if they put Taming under Professions even better for me. I was planning to go Dominate anyway just like in MO but having the option of trading stuff in addition also helps.
I just personally still don't see it there and think it will make it too easy a pick for a lot of people. So a lot of people will just be able to tame themselves stuff whenever which will also decrease the value of tamers.

 

[bbihah]

Does depend how hard they make taming. If there is both equipment and it takes a lot of effort to tame then maybe that'll solve that part of it.

 

[Necromantic]

We still don't even know how many skill points either side will have so we don't know about the viability of anything.

And to be blunt, the only one responsible for you buying the game under the assumption things would be a specific way without having the full details on it is only on you and nobody owes you anything. You'll have to be flexible with your plans when it comes to MO. Things have been changed hard before.
I mean I still disliked the outcome of the automated breeding farms etc. in MO. It basically meant you only needed some tamer to get something initially and then you could just reproduce them and tamers were reduced in value.
But I hate the idea of any automated process by NPCs to begin with.

 

[bbihah]

This is also true. One could be a massive pool while the other small. or both could be relatively tiny compared to what we think will be the case.

 

[Kaemik]

Does depend how hard they make taming. If there is both equipment and it takes a lot of effort to tame then maybe that'll solve that part of it.

I think the roaming mobs is going to be HUGE when it comes to taming. In MO1 there were predictable spawns for all the major tamables so you can say, always go to the right spot in the desert and get a desert horse. In MO2 I imagine most of the tamable creatures will randomly wander. I'm guessing that's going to lead to breeding being even more prevalent once people tame enough good original stock to breed from. There won't be people running out to donkey/horse spawn, taming a mount, riding it back to town to sell it, and then going out for another no matter HOW easy taming access is. It will take more tamers to meet the same level of demand.

People who like to wander and do PVE will likely do some of the zoologies + butchering and domination under the current build and then trade 2nd generation creatures they breed as at least in MO1 that unlocks non-dom specific creatures for trade. They'll usually want to drop a couple zoologies to pick up taming and creature care if they become professions and possibly drop dimming at that point if they don't care about dom-specific creatures. So tamer/butchers would have different areas of specialty as 100 in all zoologies already eats 800/1100 points. And management (for extra stables) will be something most breeders are going to want.

So if taming becomes a profession 800 zoology, 100 management, and 200 taming + creature care is your entire crafter build. But I'm guessing people will drop zoologies for creatures they care less about to pick up butchering quite frequently.

 

[Necromantic]

Actually after Sarducaa they introduced wandering mount spawns, well not spawns really but the camels would patrol along a wide route.
I don't have a problem with breeding as long as they make it a player driven system where you have to care for the animals etc. No more, put pet into stable and wait whatever time and get result NPC systems.

 

[Kaemik]

Honestly, I think breeding always should have been a skill that took points.

I'd consider a line like this profession side:

Taming(Pri)
--Creature Care(Pri)
--Breeding(Pri)
----Husbandry(Pri)

Breeding would be a new skill that allows you to breed more powerful creatures the higher you get it. Husbandry increasing the rate at which positive traits are passed and decreasing the rate of negative traits. Mind you husbandry wouldn't make getting good traits easy. More, it should be really hard to get them without it.

The reason being is if breeding takes nothing I'm likely to drop taming either way once I have enough good breeding stock. It seems appropriate to keep taming in a line that is a prerequisite to all advanced forms of animal production. If we don't want everyone and their dog to take up animal production make it more than a 200 point line (Or 0 point line for literally everyone with breedable animals).

At that point we'd be talking 500 points for taming tree and management, 600 points left over for zoologies so even an absolute min-max tamer would have to give up two zoologies. If everyone wants to do that I'm not sure who's going to craft everything else.

 

[Vagrant]

Honestly, I think breeding always should have been a skill that took points.

I'd consider a line like this profession side:

Taming(Pri)
--Creature Care(Pri)
--Breeding(Pri)
----Husbandry(Pri)

Breeding would be a new skill that allows you to breed more powerful creatures the higher you get it. Husbandry increasing the rate at which positive traits are passed and decreasing the rate of negative traits. Mind you husbandry wouldn't make getting good traits easy. More, it should be really hard to get them without it.

The reason being is if breeding takes nothing I'm likely to drop taming either way once I have enough good breeding stock. It seems appropriate to keep taming in a line that is a prerequisite to all advanced forms of animal production. If we don't want everyone and their dog to take up animal production make it more than a 200 point line (Or 0 point line for literally everyone with breedable animals).

this could work, and as someone, among others, who had Taming as a main character, we dropped the game altogether when breeding came along as another AFK gold sink for rich folk

or preferably just leave it out and go back to how it was originally, good tamers knew where and when to get the best mounts and that was a sought after and often patrolled and challenging resource.

 

[Vagrant]

As I said, I don't care either way, if they put Taming under Professions even better for me. I was planning to go Dominate anyway just like in MO but having the option of trading stuff in addition also helps.
I just personally still don't see it there and think it will make it too easy a pick for a lot of people. So a lot of people will just be able to tame themselves stuff whenever which will also decrease the value of tamers.

spot on

 

[Kaemik]

When you go into your professional skills it says like 20000/1100 so it's pretty reasonable to assume 1100 is the intended cap for when a cap gets implemented.

"Everyone is going to tame for themselves"
"Everyone is going to mine for themselves"
"Everyone is going to make their own weapons"
"Everyone is going to take management for more stable space"
"Everyone is going to take social skills for better vendor prices"

And before you know it those 1100 points are more than gone.
I think it's a fair point 200 points is too cheap a price for the animal skill line even considering you really need management and at least a zoology or two to really support it at full effectiveness.

That's also cheap on action side too mind you. It's just that it makes taming a carebear exclusive skill since taking it precludes you from being a competitive PvP combatant. Like literally every carebear will take taming, animal care and lockpicking under the current system because they're crafting skills in the combat line. Cutting off an entire playstyle from a certain crafting choice isn't a good way to balance it being too cheap.

Profession points are a meaningful choice just like action points.

You have action points so you can be a mounted and foot melee/mage/archer/creature controller who swims like Micheal Phelps if they're knocked off a ship in naval combat. When you start doing things like mage + creature control or melee + mage you have to make important tradeoffs between the two roles. Honestly, if you ever feel you have extra action points you can throw away you need to re-examine your build because you did something wrong unless you really don't care about combat. Like even if you're a pure melee fighter if you think you have "extra" points I want to know if you have full speed in your chosen form of movement, bandages, and why you don't think picking up a bow, a bit of magic, a pet, or adding a new movement type into your build couldn't improve your combat performance.

You have profession points so you can't generate every item/resource conceivable in between fights. Again, if you have profession points to just throw away, you did something wrong. Even if you hate crafting you could pick up zoologies to help with PVE, social skills for vendors, management for stable space etc.

I have like 1000+ points of skills I would like to take but probably won't on both sides as someone who cares about both crafting and combat.

 

[Virin]

 

[bbihah]

1100 is the points we have in mortal 1 if memory serves me right. Very doubtful that is anything more than a placeholder.
And nothing that says that combat and profession skill points will be the same amount either.

By the same logic, Combat will have 20k points

 

[Kaemik]

I doubt they'd go with much more or less than 1100 points on either side. If they went up much the "everyone can do everything" argument will be much more true and if they went down very much you wouldn't even have the points to full spec a great deal of combat or crafting professions.

In Mortal Online people tended to make combat or crafting characters with a full 1100 points in combat or a full 1100 points in crafting. Like a butcher wouldn't take anything currently in action points and a foot fighter wouldn't take anything currently under professions.

It seems the intent of MO2 is to not make you choose between combat and crafting but limit you to 1 account per player. Given the skill trees are mostly a cut and paste and combat and crafting are already mostly balanced around 1100 point builds I think it's unlikely that number will change much.

 

[Necromantic]

When you go into your professional skills it says like 20000/1100 so it's pretty reasonable to assume 1100 is the intended cap for when a cap gets implemented.

1100 is just what we had before and 20000 is clearly a placeholder so I wouldn't put any value into any of it.

Derp, delayed post.

You also had up to 4 characters on one account in MO, so we really don't know.