Tactician trait is not what you think : beware.

[Gulith]

Tooltip: "All damage dealt to or received by allies are reduced by 50%".
Confirmed by henrik in stream: it only applies to physical damage, not magic. (might not even work with bows).
The idea of the skill really is: at the last second you see you are about to hit an ally, so you try to stop your move, therefore dealing less damage.
So it doesn't work logically with magic & projectile, since it doesn't have the mind to ask itself at the last second, while in the air.
This was a big argument to pick human instead of something else, but the description was misleading:
- it says 'all damage'.
- it is called 'tactician' so it should involve tactic right? nope.
- if it is just dampening your move at the last moment, why does it work when an ally without tactician hits you?
I'm fine with what the skill is supposed to be, but the tooltip should be changed at least.
And humans should get a clade buff, because this was the 'clade with great late game potential' that made tip the scale toward human for a lot of people.
I mean how many theory crafters have dreamt about entire group composition based on aoe & stuff, with all out tacticians?
How many mages did finally pick human because of this? (TLDR: it doesn't work with magic at all).

 

[Tashka]

Mages don't have aoe yet (eq lmao) so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Deleted member 44]

This clade is fantastic, what is the point of this post?

 

[Gulith]

Mages don't have aoe yet (eq lmao) so it doesn't really matter.

a few comes with necromancy, which is in balance phase (i.e coming soon)

 

[Gulith]

This clade is fantastic, what is the point of this post?

think

 

[Jatix]

If it said "all damage" then actually reduced all damage, this wouldnt be MO2. That would make too much sense.

I'm sick of the game making bad gameplay and balance decisions because its "trying to be realistic". While people are flying around on horses like its a motorcycle shooting lighting and fire. Which isnt realistic. Its a game, it doesnt need to be realistic. So they shouldn't make some bad logic as to why the clade gift only effects melee.

 

[Deleted member 44]

think

Yes I know. It applies to melee and range. Oh no, you cant eq, death cloud, or elementalism nuke a group while taking zero damage. Seems fine to me.

 

[Dracu]

Yes I know. It applies to melee and range. Oh no, you cant eq, death cloud, or elementalism nuke a group while taking zero damage. Seems fine to me.

I dont think the issue is the balance, it is... It says one thing but does another... Thats a valid critique point... Its not vague or anything that leaves room for interpretation...

 

[ArcaneConsular]

I've honestly lost track of what clades work and what ones are placeholders at this point

 

[Gulith]

Yes I know. It applies to melee and range. Oh no, you cant eq, death cloud, or elementalism nuke a group while taking zero damage. Seems fine to me.

Thank you for proving my point.
Do you understand now how powerful people thought this clade was?
Do you understand now the problem of them being heavily mislead by a faulty description?
And since Henrik thinks clades are balanced because of what clade people picked, then his assumption of balance becomes false ... as it was already false with clade gifts before the introduction of clade gifts reset (because people were stuck with their choice, even if they hated it).
-> it's nice to see people like you, who are able to change their mind when they hear logic : i added a poll choice so you can change your mind.

 

[Emdash]

I never thought I would be nuking humans and having them take gas mask dmg. I think I understood it was for people who are popping their buddies. If only it applied to MA. haha. I've shot my horse in the back of the head like 5 or 6 times.

edit: I don't have tact, just sayin'.

 

[Gulith]

I never thought I would be nuking humans and having them take gas mask dmg. I think I understood it was for people who are popping their buddies. If only it applied to MA. haha. I've shot my horse in the back of the head like 5 or 6 times.

edit: I don't have tact, just sayin'.

Even when you read it was called 'tactician'? How dampening your move at the last moment when you realize you are about to hit a friend, be a 'tactic'?

 

[Hodo]

I rerolled from Sheevra dex mage/dominator to Human MA/Hybrid because well MA is stupid good for farming, always has been and always will be. And I realized that domination and taming in this game is a joke unless you use a terror bird for everything.

The only reason I went human is for the mounted clade gift, cleric and crafting gifts. All of the rest are just meh.

 

[Emdash]

Even when you read it was called 'tactician'? How dampening your move at the last moment when you realize you are about to hit a friend, be a 'tactic'?

A lot of the reason people are like wtf about half the things I say is because I use language differently and understand it differently. I always thought of tactician as a tongue in cheek comment to people who can't avoid hitting their friends. You know there are people who are very prone to friendly fire loool. SON U NEED TACTICIAN. Yea but I basically thought it applied to Melee only and yea if you are popping your buds you prol should get it.

 

[Gulith]

A lot of the reason people are like wtf about half the things I say is because I use language differently and understand it differently. I always thought of tactician as a tongue in cheek comment to people who can't avoid hitting their friends. You know there are people who are very prone to friendly fire loool. SON U NEED TACTICIAN. Yea but I basically thought it applied to Melee only and yea if you are popping your buds you prol should get it.

definition of 'tactic' : "an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end."
it's not a different 'use' of a language to attribute random meaning to words. words have a definition, which comes from the root 'finite'. If everyone has his own definition, then nobody understand each other.
It's never the good solution to not check the definition of a word, fuzzy in your mind ... it apparently also lead to people thinking they are hipsters about words ... =p

 

[Emdash]

definition of 'tactic' : "an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end."
it's not a different 'use' of a language to attribute random meaning to words. words have a definition, which comes from the root 'finite'. If everyone has his own definition, then nobody understand each other.
It's never the good solution to not check the definition of a word, fuzzy in your mind ... it apparently also lead to people thinking they are hipsters about words ... =p

we talkin' bout definitions of words now? :/



Imagine the situation where someone is out there popping all of his friendlies and someone says "he is a real *tactician* out there!" as sarcasm. That's what I mean. Thus, increasing your TACTICS (imaginary, but makes sense, still) will probably lead to you inflicting less lethal blows on your buddies.

Bad strategy = clubbing your bros. Poor planning = hitting allies. Specific end = not hitting your allies, or simplified, applying more dmg to enemy than you apply to your allies.

IT MAKES SENSE to me, but I dunno.

 

[Gulith]

yeah i understood, you imagined something bonker instead of what was written, it happens. Henrik explained the idea behind it, and we were both wrong.
But did you get the part where tacticians also get less damage from friends who DO NOT have the clade gift?
They suddenly have better dodge when they see a friend hiting them at the last moment? Why don't don't they use the same move against enemies?
the illogical magic bond damage reduction was a way more logical interpretation ... of a description that leaves no room for interpretation.

 

[Emdash]

Fuck what henrik said. haha. How can we be wrong anyway? And yea, that's weird, well, it's weird because WHO TRULY IS A FRIENDLY? Like I said it makes sense to me... because in a game w/ friendly fire you'd figure SOMEONE would have an anti friendly fire skill. Hitting people for just raw half dmg in a group tho w/ AoE is kinda broken imo.

It's not 'logical' to imagine hitting someone half as hard once you max your tactics, but imagining that once someone masters that trait they are able to get in and out more easily is not hard. Those are the good kind of traits IMO. They are different, they are logical, and they add flavor, and aren't major major OP.

The main thing is that they are better in 'the ball' or whatever. Like a front line shot caller. It's a strong gift if you think about it, but it's not broken OP (imo again.) Like I said, that's one of the gifts that I think does the clade system justice, esp on an underplayed race.

 

[Gulith]

Fuck what henrik said. haha. How can we be wrong anyway? And yea, that's weird, well, it's weird because WHO TRULY IS A FRIENDLY? Like I said it makes sense to me... because in a game w/ friendly fire you'd figure SOMEONE would have an anti friendly fire skill. Hitting people for just raw half dmg in a group tho w/ AoE is kinda broken imo.

It's not 'logical' to imagine hitting someone half as hard once you max your tactics, but imagining that once someone masters that trait they are able to get in and out more easily is not hard. Those are the good kind of traits IMO. They are different, they are logical, and they add flavor, and aren't major major OP.

The main thing is that they are better in 'the ball' or whatever. Like a front line shot caller. It's a strong gift if you think about it, but it's not broken OP (imo again.) Like I said, that's one of the gifts that I think does the clade system justice, esp on an underplayed race.

with magic you can explain anything.
BTW, i already said i was fine with what the skill really does, the problem is the faulty description that made people pick human.
without this i probably would have picked something else.
First the tooltip must be changed asap, and not in 6 month wth ...
Second, since henrik think clade are balanced due to what people picked, then he needs to revise human clade up.

 

[Belegar]

Oh wow I dodged a bullet. I was torn between an Oghmir or Human fat mage. The reason for this was only one reason and that was this very glade.

Elementalism + Tactitian= priceless.

Luckly for me I still went Oghmir. That was close.