Stam penalty change is horrible
- Thread starter Evelyn
- Start date
This would be true if all races had equal stamina, but they do not. It's not that simple.
How about instead of just bitching and saying "AH I HATE IT ITS THE WORST THING EVER" try to give feedback on how it could be improved. Trying to make your armor weight matter more is a good change. Giving more reasons for warriors/archers to wear lighter armors is a GOOD thing. Were the changes they did today the right ones? Thats to be determined...
If you don't like the idea at all thats fine, but continuously saying you hate the change doesn't do anything.
If you don't like the idea at all thats fine, but continuously saying you hate the change doesn't do anything.
It's still true even when considering different builds and stamina caps. The amount of penalty to regeneration has nothing to do with your total stamina per se, even though yes, your total or current stamina throughout a fight is probably more of a consideration now. If anything, this increases the skill cap of stamina management, which in my book is a net positive.
On paper, I’m personally a big fan of this change. I can’t comment on it yet because it’s day one and these things take time to understand the big picture.
However, I’m excited to see what the community does with the changes especially when combined with the new armor sliders.
Looking forward to discovering the pros and cons over the next few months.
However, I’m excited to see what the community does with the changes especially when combined with the new armor sliders.
Looking forward to discovering the pros and cons over the next few months.
I remeber a thread not all that long complaining that there is no reason for fighters to wear less than 12kg. Now there is. So it's exactly what people asked for, and IMHO I like the change in theory (didn't play since then through).
This should also enable more opportunity for foot archers, that were a Ranger armor and got better stam regen than all fighters.
People were not asking for nerfs to medium armor. Most people just wanted to beable to wear steel on more builds
Medium armor wasn’t nerfed though. It feels like people are basing these responses off of the idea that “any stam penalty at all = bad” which is not the case anymore.
The only case where this is a nerf is against mounted and it’s pretty obvious that balance is far from finished in that department.
I don’t think it’s valid to judge these changes off of how it impacts our ability to fight foot v mounted when we’re not even looking at a finished picture.
Well said. Was literally what I was about to post.
I like the change on paper. Makes more decision how much armor weight people want to use in their builds.
I think they could add that if you have armor training skill at 100 your stamina penalties start after 4 - 5 kilos and with heavy armor training 8 - 10 kilos of armor (numbers might need some tuning). That would make taking those skills more usefull in different builds.
I think they could add that if you have armor training skill at 100 your stamina penalties start after 4 - 5 kilos and with heavy armor training 8 - 10 kilos of armor (numbers might need some tuning). That would make taking those skills more usefull in different builds.
Maybe they should do is just have a flatter curve that decreases stamina regen drastically as you get to your max armor weight or a threash hold before that. And then maybe remove the ecumberment penalty since there is a drastic decrease stamina regen.
A different option is to just increase the start of the stamina nerfs to after light armor. If you are wearing light armor why put points into it to meet the threashholds for just a very few % better on stamina regen.
Right now quite a people cant see a reason to put points into heavy armor training if they already get a penalty for stam regen rates. Way waste a couple of dozen points to knock off 4% stam drain while still having double that. The only reason to have points in heavy armor training is to not be encombered instead of in the past to meet the thresholds. As a veela people wouldnt wear armor over their threshold (15kg) and would make ironbone/ironwool sets light enought so the jump and stamina regen was not effected.
Another thing.
Heavy armors will have like 1.5 times the penalty of medium armor at only double the weight. It seems like medium is penalized more then heavy. Also why is light penalized at all.
No system implemented is going to be perfect and even if people will like these changes there are things that can be improved. People dont need to be defending this change to the point that nothing shouldnt be altered.
A different option is to just increase the start of the stamina nerfs to after light armor. If you are wearing light armor why put points into it to meet the threashholds for just a very few % better on stamina regen.
Right now quite a people cant see a reason to put points into heavy armor training if they already get a penalty for stam regen rates. Way waste a couple of dozen points to knock off 4% stam drain while still having double that. The only reason to have points in heavy armor training is to not be encombered instead of in the past to meet the thresholds. As a veela people wouldnt wear armor over their threshold (15kg) and would make ironbone/ironwool sets light enought so the jump and stamina regen was not effected.
Another thing.
Heavy armors will have like 1.5 times the penalty of medium armor at only double the weight. It seems like medium is penalized more then heavy. Also why is light penalized at all.
No system implemented is going to be perfect and even if people will like these changes there are things that can be improved. People dont need to be defending this change to the point that nothing shouldnt be altered.
Here are the pros and cons I see for the new system:
Pros:
Cons:
l am very excited to see how this goes, because the #1 pro I listed has been an issue in my opinion for many years now going back to MO1. Of course they can tweak the value of the penalty increase if it's not having the results they want, or similarly they could add some kind of curve to give more benefit to lighter armor.
The balance possibilities here are numerous and likely easy to implement if need be.
Pros:
- Removed the mental block causing players to only ever wear equipment that is under their stamina penalty threshold, thereby increasing used armor weight variety - This is huge
- Adds value to lighter sets as they will always have a small stamina benefit over heavier sets. Previously there was no reason to wear lighter armor if you have free threshold weight available, other than mana regeneration for mages. With this new system even light fighters have a reason for wearing light or medium armor
- The system is more intuitive, logical and consistent with other game systems; weapon weight and horse armor weight work this way already, as well as the attributes
- Removes the need to get 100 heavy armor training for the penalty threshold increase, freeing up points to use elsewhere if you only intend on wearing medium or light armor
- Puts a greater emphasis on proper stamina management, increasing the skill ceiling. People who arent managing their stamina efficiently or play is if the penalty wasn't there will have this issue surface quicker in a fight than before.
Cons:
- Lighter armors had a small stamina penalty introduced that they didn't previously have.
This being a con is debatable, because yes it's a "nerf" compared to the old system, but it's relative to weights and penalties in the new system, not the old one.
The #2 pro above only exists with this difference in stamina regeneration, so I consider it a pro. Even if you have slightly worse regeneration than the old system with lighter armors, it applies for everyone, so it's not like you have an 8% penalty and someone else in some other armor has no penalty, everyone has some amount of penalty which now scales with the weight.
Unless you're naked.
l am very excited to see how this goes, because the #1 pro I listed has been an issue in my opinion for many years now going back to MO1. Of course they can tweak the value of the penalty increase if it's not having the results they want, or similarly they could add some kind of curve to give more benefit to lighter armor.
The balance possibilities here are numerous and likely easy to implement if need be.
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You almost forgot another big one. People will have a need for an exact weight/defense they’re comfortable with running. This means armor crafting becomes a far more interesting profession and actually requires armorers to create their own unique recipes for customers.
Before, there was 0 depth to armor crafting. You set everything to 100% and made the highest defense gear possible while remaining under your stam penalty threshold. There was 0 reason to do anything else especially with how punishing the sliders were prior to this patch.
Stam penalty for weight should just be removed. If they really want lighter armors to have a benefit thats not for magic, they should just make stam penalty based on armor type. So Medium could have a tiny one. Light armor no stam penalty. And heavy a little more. BUT. Making steel armor shouldn't give a worse penalty than IB. In what game does making your armor out of a better material make it worse? Ya people can say that the better protections makes the stam penalty worth it. But it shouldn't haev a con at all. Steel costs exponentially more than easy to get animal mats. They originally added stam penalty because people were complaining that good armor was too good. Just make it less op then.
And while we are at it, heavier armor should give mounted penalties. Mounted gets to avoid all the issues that everyone else has to deal with, when they are already the strongest and most mobile class. Mounted is like if veela had 150 str, tallest, 250 hp, most stam, and went 450 speed still. Riding in full metal plate should slow down max speed, acceleration, turning, and lower stam.
And while we are at it, heavier armor should give mounted penalties. Mounted gets to avoid all the issues that everyone else has to deal with, when they are already the strongest and most mobile class. Mounted is like if veela had 150 str, tallest, 250 hp, most stam, and went 450 speed still. Riding in full metal plate should slow down max speed, acceleration, turning, and lower stam.
Yeah testing it more and it messes with your jump pretty bad too. Got to take off armor to jump after light armor people now. I really have no Idea why they did this. Its just fake depth and a nerf to FF while adding more broken stuff to the game.
This part of the game didn't need adjustment with so much of the rest of the game is broken unbalanced. Its just really concerning seeing this keep happen. One step forward in fixing something, along with two step back. There is a lot good stuff that comes with each patch so I dont want to be overly negative but its pretty hard to keep playing when stuff like this keeps coming in each patch.
This part of the game didn't need adjustment with so much of the rest of the game is broken unbalanced. Its just really concerning seeing this keep happen. One step forward in fixing something, along with two step back. There is a lot good stuff that comes with each patch so I dont want to be overly negative but its pretty hard to keep playing when stuff like this keeps coming in each patch.
Yes this is clearly part of the intent behind the change (as to why it applies across all armor weights) and creates a mobility vs protection consideration across the entire weight scale. This is far more intuitive.
