Something I've noticed regarding the most competitive players who stream

[Ghanburi]

It seems to me that, according to serious melee fighter types, anything that isn't melee fighting, be it pets or magic, is almost by default overpowered. Having spent a great deal of time watching streamers who focus on melee, this is a common sentiment. Further, most really sweaty players, who have thousands of hours in the game engaging in completive play AND who tend to win most fights, are playing melee fighters. Is this not contradictory, if magic/pets are, in fact, more powerful? Seems odd to me.

 

[Mad Jugger]

The 3 streamers with the 100 watchers?

 

[Teknique]

Once upon a time the game had more than 1 class.

 

[Ghanburi]

Whilst I find it somewhat ironic (and comical) that power gamers ask for nerfs on builds they do not play, what is perhaps more perplexing are the doomsayers who nip at the heels of MO2, seemingly for no other purpose than pure spite. There are other games, even other hobbies... Truly, vast expanses of untouched entertainment available to anyone who dares but to seek it. Or, you can stay here and act like a jilted lover, belittling the game that broke your heart. Now, that I got that out, I should note that the posters above may not be in this category. However, I've seen so much of it, particularly on these forums, that it is natural for me to bristle at certain statements.

 

[Teknique]

Whilst I find it somewhat ironic (and comical) that power gamers ask for nerfs on builds they do not play, what is perhaps more perplexing are the doomsayers who nip at the heels of MO2, seemingly for no other purpose than pure spite. There are other games, even other hobbies... Truly, vast expanses of untouched entertainment available to anyone who dares but to seek it. Or, you can stay here and act like a jilted lover, belittling the game that broke your heart. Now, that I got that out, I should note that the posters above may not be in this category. However, I've seen so much of it, particularly on these forums, that it is natural for me to bristle at certain statements.

The whole, "why are you wasting your time talking about a game that you don't like" argument is really tired and sad. The time it takes to comment is negligible. No other purpose is simply a lie, I use game knowledge to point out the glaring differences in game quality from the first to the 2nd game. Your callous indifference to the people who's favorite hobby was gutted speaks volumes about you.

I don't need you to tell me about other games and hobbies. Recently I was top 50k in an actually competitive game called Counter Strike. If anything you NEED ME to explain hobbies to YOU. Since you can pallate this piece of trash.

I'm obviously not incapable of doing something else other than post on these forums like you seem to be insinuating.

You're obviously a smart guy, come with a half decent argument, because what you've come with so far...trash.

and indeed in my honest opinion no one is better suited to give feedback to star vault than I am.



Anyway since you're so concerned about the time investment involved in posting on the forums, i'll explain it you. In the morning I usually take a greasy shit, and look at my phone and these forums. At some point during work i'm bored I look at my phone. Maybe later in the day I look at my phone.

I probably spent more time writing this post then cumulatively in the last week.

NOW CAN WE PLEASE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE POSTERS TIME

 

[Tzone]

It seems to me that, according to serious melee fighter types, anything that isn't melee fighting, be it pets or magic, is almost by default overpowered. Having spent a great deal of time watching streamers who focus on melee, this is a common sentiment. Further, most really sweaty players, who have thousands of hours in the game engaging in completive play AND who tend to win most fights, are playing melee fighters. Is this not contradictory, if magic/pets are, in fact, more powerful? Seems odd to me.

melee is more fun. I play mage its very powerfull but too squishy. Need to nerf some spells and give suitability to the class to balance it out so its more fun.

Pets are just cheese. They are a bit expensive in time to level which is very boring AFK waiting around. So no one wants to do it. But pets give anyplayer a definite advantage over other players. And fighting pets is boring and annoying which is the main reason.

 

[Jackdstripper]

All top players in this game play melee because its the strongest class in the hands of a pro.

In almost all situations a heavy foot fighter with a melee weapon and a long bow will win.

Sure they will sit there and complain about how easy mages are to play, and op pets, etc but they know full well that in a 1vs1 a geared footie is the apex predator.

 

[Tzone]

also who are these "competitive streamers" most streamers are dog and dont understand the game.

Like pets are not as effective in large scale unless you are using them with a lot of other people who have their ZvZ toon builds with pets to pump up numbers.

But in small scale where you are trying to compete over farms and resources Pets are extremely strong

 

[Tzone]

All top players in this game play melee because its the strongest class in the hands of a pro.

In almost all situations a heavy foot fighter with a melee weapon and a long bow will win.

Sure they will sit there and complain about mages, and pets, etc but they know full well that in a 1vs1 a geared footie is the apex predator.

On foot in the open a proper mage build will just win. The FF cant catch him when he gives up and turns around the mage starts doing damage.
Its just math the FF cant catch the mage the mage can damage the FF. IDK why people try to argue this.

The issue is that if you are fighting on a mage and run into outlaws and other dynamic spawn you are just screwed and cant fight. Need to nerf the mages damage and then make it more survivable against these dynamic mobs.

 

[Jackdstripper]

On foot in the open a proper mage build will just win. The FF cant catch him when he gives up and turns around the mage starts doing damage.
Its just math the FF cant catch the mage the mage can damage the FF. IDK why people try to argue this.

The issue is that if you are fighting on a mage and run into outlaws and other dynamic spawn you are just screwed and cant fight. Need to nerf the mages damage and then make it more survivable against these dynamic mobs.

Obviously you have never been hit by a long bow in your mage armour. A FF with a bow has the same range of a mage.
I have yet to see a mage single handedly win a fight against a good FF that has a bow. Perhaps your mage skills are just superhuman.

 

[Tzone]

Obviously you have never been hit by a long bow in your mage armour. A FF with a bow has the same range of a mage.
I have yet to see a mage single handedly win a fight against a good FF that has a bow. Perhaps your mage skills are just superhuman.

Bro I have over 5k hours foot mage all I play is mage and MA in GK. You just wiggle and the archer cant hit you as he is moving slower and using up stamina. Also you have shields you can hotbar to put on and off to counter arrows.

You just have to jump cast to the sides and its even easier after they added walk casting.

I just told you how to win against foot and you will still deny it. Thats only user error on your part.
Try to argue that Oghmir with tower and club is not meta now and not completely overpowered. Because by your logic every one will only be playing the OP builds. Which is that build with can go from 1hp to full in less then 3 seconds, be almost immune to physical damage, extra defensive stance, and get extra armor.

A lot of people have their meta zvz ogmir build but dont play them outside zvz because they find other playstyles more fun.

All it means is that mages are less fun then footfighters.

 

[Ghanburi]

The whole, "why are you wasting your time talking about a game that you don't like" argument is really tired and sad. The time it takes to comment is negligible. No other purpose is simply a lie, I use game knowledge to point out the glaring differences in game quality from the first to the 2nd game. Your callous indifference to the people who's favorite hobby was gutted speaks volumes about you.

Does it? You know, I used to like Star Wars movies, but now I don't. They've changed, and not for the better IMO. However, I didn't hang out at the movie theater when they premiered complaining about them, and I am certainly not there now doing so long after they released. That you do not like MO2 is understandable, but at what point do you simply cut your losses and move on? Perhaps come back in 3 to 6 months to check it out? Or, maybe make constructive criticisms and recommendations, without vitriol?

NOW CAN WE PLEASE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE POSTERS TIME

I will discuss what I like, thank you, and if I feel like it I will address the often obnoxious behavior of the detractors found here. That being said, I do wish you the best, I am sorry that you do not like the game, and I hope you can find one you do like.

 

[Ghanburi]

...
Try to argue that Oghmir with tower and club is not meta now and not completely overpowered. Because by your logic every one will only be playing the OP builds. Which is that build with can go from 1hp to full in less then 3 seconds, be almost immune to physical damage, extra defensive stance, and get extra armor.
...

Regarding the Oghmir... the thing that people do not ever seem to recognize about this clade is its item dependence, including dependence on consumables. Ogs are meta in groups primarily in the hands of people who have access to good heavy armor, tower shields, pipes, food, and potions. When used by a regular MMO-Joe of moderate means, they are at best equal to the other clades (and I am speaking about the foot fighter here). Therefore, I suggest foot fighter Ogs are OP really only in competitive guilds with large resources, and especially en masse.

I would like to see SV walk back some of the item based bonuses Ogs get, and refocus those clade skills on things less tethered to end game gear and consumables. This is perhaps a tall order, and what I suspect we will see is simply a nerf to tower shields. While I share concerns about tower shields, and I do think they need to be readjusted, that does not address the greater problem of the way the clade skills work for the Og.

People should play the Oghmir because they like the clade, and not feel forced to do so in especially large group competitive play due to the gear/consumable force multipliers their skills provide.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Try to argue that Oghmir with tower and club is not meta now and not completely overpowered. Because by your logic every one will only be playing the OP builds.

A lot of people have their meta zvz ogmir build but dont play them outside zvz because they find other playstyles more fun.

I was going to argue….but you kind of took both sides of the argument, and then defeated yourself. So yea, everyone has Ogmirs.
Well, everyone except you of course, because you have the magic wiggle that owns all FF.
Lol

 

[Philocypher]

It's super hard to longbow a skinny sheevra. But you usually only gotta do it once.

 

[Tzone]

It's super hard to longbow a skinny sheevra. But you usually only gotta do it once.

yeah but the meta is either bulding sheva or stout veela for mages.

 

[Rahz]

I think most people like footies because you're safe from PvE (Archery plus Heavy Armor turns the PvE into a cakewalk) and you are not hard-countered by anything in a 1v1 situation. You can respond to magic with arrows, archers dont really hurt you that much and a melee fight is what you signed up for anyway.
Playing a mage is essentially not as forgiving. You can get severly wounded by a single arrow that you didnt manage to dodge, your mana is very limited (especially if you're not a pure mage) and you can't take melee fights without doing some magic damage first. If you manage to hit all your spells while keeping your distance and cover for a while however, you can dish out a huge amount of burst damage.
In group fights from my experience damage-spells are only there to burst people into mercy mode since healing does use a lot less mana than doing damage and you wanna keep your mana for your footies. So playing a footie in group fights is usually more action-packed which is also a big reason for playing it.

 

[Emdash]

Perhaps come back in 3 to 6 months to check it out?

We all still look. I am starting to see more potential in Reddit for getting change, tbh, tho. I'm not gonna post my rankings haha, but I have life goals. They may sound funny to some people, some more than others. Like, I haven't done everything I want to do with writing yet. However, there are other things that relate to my interests that I want to contribute to. I don't 'like' to prove people wrong, but proving people wrong is essential because everyone doubts things are possible until they are proven true. I feel that way about "the Sandbox," and right now the closest bones are MO1->MO2. Although I'm starting to doubt it anymore.

Understand that most people here who sound salty put thousands of dollars in SV's pockets and played their game for years. The star wars comparison doesn't hold up because this is a project, a work in progress.

In regards to making a sandbox work, it's just complicated. There are so many variables. Most people, even intelligent or talented people, are not equipped to manipulate that many variables at once. There is not going to be room in a Sandbox for everyone because, in my opinion, it has to be open pvp and it has to be full loot. There IS room for every type of player, though, but some people will get weeded out.

I just wanna see it work. I don't want anything. I don't even have to be part of it. I can be one of the weeded out ones, nopun.

I'm invested in the concept. It's MMO evolution. The Sandbox must happen, a world that drives itself. No quests. It's inevitable. The question is who is actually gonna do it. And yeah, Eve is supposedly good, but I can't comment on Eve. I personally dislike sci fi and I prefer the immersion of first person. I feel immersion on that level is a huge part of a MMO experience, not just 'winning' or generating widgets.

It's not going to be a world where there are no NPCs because that's not feasible, but what people have to understand is, to get Biblical (haha), you gotta let stuff iron itself out. You put people in paradise and they fuck it up. There need to be eras where order is established, kind of like how civilizations build. You can't force it. You can force an outcome, but that doesn't mean it's working. It's like economics. Systems. It has to go from start to end with minimal intervention. The only intervention should be bending the game slightly to make it easier for the players to establish a semblance of order, and no if you think that = guild guards / walls, then you are not thinking dynamically. You have to think of the worst possibility before you add things. Soulbound diablo style trinkets? RMT. EZ.

But yeah, it's not worth talking about much. However, I did get a lul out of the word detractors. I understand how it can work, but contextually that word paints the people with opposing viewpoints in an unfair light, imo. They are cynics if anything.

I doubt anyone is mad at anyone enjoying the game, either, but the fact that some people's enjoyment is like... hey I was getting PK'd, but now I'm not YEAHHH. That's just lol... I don't even know.

Well enjoy. SEE ME ON REDDIT THO.

 

[Backpackface]

Pets are incredibly over powered and unbalanced. If you go melee with a pet for example you barely lose anything and gain a pet that tanks a bunch of HP and does free dmg.

 

[Ghanburi]

...

Understand that most people here who sound salty put thousands of dollars in SV's pockets and played their game for years. The star wars comparison doesn't hold up because this is a project, a work in progress.

I do think it holds up to a certain extent, because there are folks still complaining about Star Wars, and those who have built whole somewhat popular media presences largely on the back of those complaints. Dissatisfaction can build momentum, and it is self-reinforcing--meaning that if you complain, inevitably others who are like minded will get behind your sentiment and you'll get that dopamine hit when they agree with you online. This emboldens you to complain more, and those complaints soon begin to devolve into often sensationalist, non-constructive bitter sniping (misery loves company). Star Wars changed, and people who really appreciated that IP did not like that. Some folks feel the same about the change form MO1 to MO2 and that current direction. I understand that, and I am sympathetic to it. What I am not sympathetic to is the sour, sometimes childish, whinging and constant belittling of the game. (EDIT: Let's be honest though, some of the MO1 vets were not even interested in giving MO2 a chance, and began with vitriol toward the game and toward SV. They have been hating since the beginning, and are only now some of them are starting to run out of steam.)

...
In regards to making a sandbox work, it's just complicated. There are so many variables. Most people, even intelligent or talented people, are not equipped to manipulate that many variables at once. There is not going to be room in a Sandbox for everyone because, in my opinion, it has to be open pvp and it has to be full loot. There IS room for every type of player, though, but some people will get weeded out.

I just wanna see it work. I don't want anything. I don't even have to be part of it. I can be one of the weeded out ones, nopun.

...

I too am very interested in seeing this type of game "work", which is one reason I tend to bristle at some of the hyperbolic trolling that goes on. As I stated earlier, this type of negativity has its own synergy, and therefore anyone who is interested in the genre of sandbox MMORPG should do their best to keep a supportive attitude, even if they are not 100% fond of the direction. We all get a bit whiny sometimes (I have on these forums a time or two), but we should try to be constructive in our criticism.

You cannot make a game for everyone, as it has been said that to make a game for everyone, you make it for no one. I believe SV is trying to stay true to the genre, again specifically sandbox MMORPG. It is my take that Henrik really feels like that genre has merit, and that if they can create the best version of it they can, it will be reasonably successful.

What I think we are seeing now (at least in part) is a reformation away from the arena genre and the pvp survival crafting genre, back toward sandbox MMORPG. Again the goal, according to Henrik, is sandbox MMORPG, and NOT pvp survival crafting, nor arena. These other genres are related to SMMORPG, but they are not the same. And, unfortunately, folks who primarily enjoy those types of games will always treat MO2 like it is one of them, and get upset when it is adjusted to better represent its mission.

When changes happen, some will fail to adapt, and they will "die out". They will cease to have fun, and they will move on (hopefully move on, instead of subjecting everyone else to their bitter complaints). As long as SV holds true to the genre of sandbox MMORPG, however imperfectly, I hope to be here to support them.