Some food for balancing thought

[Kaemik]

Actually to add on to the above point. You could actually make the bonus vary per set. Mage robes may give increased cast speed, Kallardian decreased effective melee weapon weight for swing speed timers, ranger gives additional weakspot and increased range for bows, light Tindremic decreases effective shield weight and applies a scaling % of it's protection to the rest of the body, Risar Berserker gives flanking etc.

Another cool aspect of that is you could make each bonus respond to different materials differently. Robes work best with high tier robes and silks, Kallardian with high tier furs, Tindremic with scales etc.

Give people more than RP reasons to run some of the underutilized sets.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

I'd rather see the opposite. Heavy armor is a huge investment. Because I mainly run lighter armors for mana regen I am saving like 100g per kit. And it's 200 primary points to fully max armor training.

I think if I throw 100g into a light armor kit it should give a lot more power. There should be major benfits to using light armor. Not just for mages but fighters as well. Possible candidates include a flanking bonus (additional damage when you get a back hit melee and archery), higher weakspot rate, increased firing rate and/or range with bows, and lower effective weapon weight with melee weapons for the purpose of determining swing timers (Because I would love to see a Kallard in Kallardian Padded with a Kallard Double Axe actually be a good build).

I also wouldn't mind seeing a primary or two built around the idea of light armor fighting. They could easily make points for this by making sprinting and combat maneuvering secondaries which is something I've been suggesting a long time as no non-alt build of any form would ever dump those and still be able to enjoyably experience the whole game.

To be clear, this shouldn't be something you get for stripping naked. It should be a bonus on lightweight armor sets and materials that increases with a good set made with more expensive materials. It should also increase casting speed or something by a bit given even mages are being told to take heavy armor training by a lot of people.

First of all I just want to say, Base heavy armor is not that expensive at all. Especially if you do your own farming. Nor is base mage armor. But if were talking Best of the best and still realistic to get (not oghmium) Tung Steel with Blood Silk or Iron Fur, Cost almost the same amount of gold as top tier mage gear, Ganoid Scales and Blood Silk. Granit you use way less mats for mage armor, But you also get 2x or 3x the amount of mats to make heavy armor.

I dont like the idea of just getting raw increases, to stats and % chances. Just because you are in light armor.
How ever there should be a difference in Light and heavy armor. With there not being any, all we see is Dex fighters rolling heavy plate for defenses, and still keeping full movement speed. While the only players that wear light armor are mages, Because if they put anything els on they WILL NOT get mana back.
If there was more dynamics to the armor weight. (Getting a max run speed penalty for wearing heavy armor, based on the players carry weight... (Like Swimming.) We would see a mix of armor across all races. Dex fighters would keep full speed in light armors, Oghmir Thusars would lose % amount of move speed based on carry weight above 15kg. Dex Alvarin fighters would be faster then Oghmir and Thusars in plate, But not able to reach max speed unless in light armor. But perhaps a Oghmir or Thusar that rolls light armor will be able to catch an Alvarin in full plate? Would be interesting to see the impact of gameplay if they made armor more realistic.
If they implement a % armor to carry weight calculation on land, Just similar to how it is with swimming. I feel like the game would be way more balanced.

Rather then giving more weak spot and shooting rate, Just based on the armor.

 

[Kaemik]

The issue is "the best of the best" buys two different power levels. For steel you're getting near immunity to weaker forms of physical damage and substantial reduction to everything else. For light armor you're going from pretty bad to slightly less bad. I personally rarely spring for anything as expensive as steel in light armor mats because it doesn't justify the cost. Like is a robe made from bloodsilk really going to save me in that many scenarios?

Now if a robe made from bloodsilk would give a big cast speed bonus I:

A. Would be willing to spend the money on it.
B. Would be willing to wear robes at all.

As is, I mainly run keeled/silk in one of the lighter armor sets because it's decent protection for a low weight and costs like 10g a set. Fur instead of silk would probably be fine too and it's cheaper. I just personally like piercing protection a lot since I play very fast characters. Sure it's not absolutely optimal but there are other things I can spend that gold on that will make a bigger difference.

 

[Contorto]

Some thoughts on the tweaks to balance gameplay.

Shields - Should be tied to strength (str) and the smallest tower shield should start from 100 str. That way they will be worn by the intended category of fighters, foot fighters.

Heavy Armour - Should also be tied to the strength (str), as it makes no sense for a weakling to be able to roam around in a very heavy set of armor.

Horse armor and carry capacity - Only level 50+ horses should be capable of carrying heavy armor and a heavily armored rider at the same time.

Horses leveling - Should level faster the more weight you make it carry and the better food you feed it with.

Armour - If it is made out of various gemstones should have magic resistance added to it, as it makes no sense that mages can have armor to defend themselves from melee damage and arrows, but melee and archers have no gear to protect themselves from magic. Alternatively, some kind of shine can be applied to metal-based armour.

One-handed weapons - Should not be able to parry 2h weapons. As I find it not very convincing that a 120-str monster gets his maul swing parried by a tiny dagger or 1 handed weapon.

Parry - Should receive chip damage instead of the block.

Full blocks - Only possible with shields and receive no damage upon blocking.

Spears - Should deal extra damage to horses/monsters if attacked from the front as well as stop horses/monsters altogether after landing an attack.

Mounted archery - Should only work with light-medium gear on.

Mounted magery - Skill should be removed, so that magic is only viable on foot.

Tamers and beastmasters - Should have mana drained (just like necros zombies) the more pets they have.

Pets - Should not be able to call back pets once they engage in a fight. Pets should have a fleeing threshold depending on the level of hp-ratio. Once reached, the pet will try to flee to safety(random location).

Pets leveling - Experience gains only from actual encounters and better food, not from target dummies.

Spellweave - Mages should be able to weave up to three spells into one shout. depending on the amount of intellect. Where dmg and healing for each spell is reduced 3x times. Up to 3x shouts can be stored for longer periods, depending on the amount of Psyche. Shouts are usable with weapons out and on the move.

Magic schools - Should cancel out each other and only one can be used. As it makes no sense to be able to heal zombies with light spells.

Magic school books - Should start with just two basic spells, aka ecumenical with a spurt and lesser heal. Necromancy with summon zombie and command zombie.

Special abilities - Should be using resources such as adrenaline. The more you get hit or the more you hit will increase the adrenalin bar. Parrying or not being hit or not hitting for a period of time should reduce the adrenaline bar.

Casting with one hand free - Should be allowed to cast spells with either hand free, with a reduction in spell strength by 3x.

2 handed weapons in one hand - Just like mounted melee combat, a two-handed weapon in one hand would require weapon strength required x2. I see no reason why strong characters cant wield 2h axe and a shield at the same time.


More will come.

No to 95% the these above changes. This OP out of his mind half these changes would make mage builds completely useless outside of just being heal bots for their teammates all of them together would just force everyone to play a foot fighter and nothing else. This is the most bias list of suggestions I've ever seen in my life, OP you ever consider that maybe I don't want to play a foot fighter so deal with that and accept that this game isn't Chivalry 2.

 

[Contorto]

When campadons become rideable mounts, you'll actually see mounted builds used in serious fights. They're not likely going to win a fight on their own but hitting a flank with a ton of AoE damage will enable footy allies to make a push.

I will prepare for this mountable campadons I hear it coming in 2077.

 

[Kaemik]

I will prepare for this mountable campadons I hear it coming in 2077.

That sounds like a realistic ETA on mounted combat being viable for serious fights.

 

[cerqo]

I'll put it this way. Yes, you can drop archery and spend all your remaining points on FF skills. And I'm fairly sure if we both ran that build you would beat me. I'm sure you're very good at playing it. You'd beat me even harder if I kept archery and didn't take defensive stance for that specific 1v1.

I could also keep archery, not take Defensive stance, run CC, Adv. CC and 91 herding for the wolf cheese, kamikaze my wolves into you while also attacking you in melee, and I'm fairly sure I would win. As a less skilled player and definitely a less practiced 1v1er. However if you started that fight as an MA and then transitioned to FF once my wolves were dead, my money is on you again. And it's entirely on you if I have 0 archery because you'll easily be able to kill multiple wolves before you have to ride off and reset, putting your horse at significantly less risk. With 100 archery I can still go for the play of get your horse before you get my wolves and come into the fight with an advantage when you are forced to face me and my remaining wolves on foot.

Your builds sound very good for all these 1v1 tournaments with these hyper restrictive rules. I don't build around fighting with "honor". Nobody has a right to complain if they drop counters to things they don't like, and then find themselves losing to those very things. So I build my characters around versatility, and usually take things to round out major weaknesses if I can do so. My "hard requirements" usually assume 2 roles per build because nearly all the best builds play that way.

Just foot melee is barely a better character concept than just foot archer. And just foot archer is absolute garbage. Foot melee may be the strongest role in the game, but any singular role is ridiculously easy to counter if it's the only thing you know how to do. And that's the way it SHOULD work.

That's why I find it hillarious we are now in a MM/Tame spam meta. Both those things are countered by MA. Countered HARD in the case of wolf spam. And MA is the easiest role for a FF to pick up as their secondary function. They already have high strength and SHOULD have 100 archery. But because they argued for nerfs to a complementary role they now find themselves unable to counter things that are strong against FF and weak against MA. Poetic justice. These are FF's balancing sins coming back to bite them in the ass (literally ). I hope this meta never ends until MAs and archery in general get buffed substantially. And mark my words, if there were a substantial archery/MA buff. This current meta WOULD end with 0 nerfs to tamer/MM. A powerful MA would eat these wolfpack builds for breakfast while powerful foot archers would still have a huge edge against an MA.

You have some weird fucking delusion thinking I give a fuck about 1v1s and that what im saying is about 1v1s.

Let me break it down for you.

I have been and am constantly in WAY more group fights than you. I have 7 characters and have full archery.

I guess your idea of balancing the completely skilless and braindead mounted combat/magic in this game is having something else that is completely and utterly fucking broken like archery used to be in beta.

Also to be clear. I don't care if something is strong as long as it actually takes ANY semblance of skill whatsoever and can be countered. Something that mounteds cannot. Even if we had beta archery that was retarded strong, it would still not fucking matter because kids are riding around in tung horse armor on 300 HP horses healing them for 80s while sitting ontop of them. Kids get dismounted and mount right back up before you have enough time to kill them or their horse.

I don't see what your point is apart from crying about archery nerfs. Are you trying to say mounted is balanced in any way? I wont even mention pets cause there is not even any fucking question that shit is completely broken lmao.

Btw buddy. I know you have played since beta so it just makes it even funnier how fucking delusional you are. We have ALWAYS been in a fucking MM/MC/MA meta. Mounted has ALWAYS been braindead and too strong with no counters, get fucking real. The only time where you could argue it was balanced was when there was no horse armor and you could actually kill horses, LONG gone are those days LOL and i cant wait untill we have breeding ingame and kids are riding around on 1k HP horses.

This games balance is the biggest fucking joke in gaming only surpassed by MO1. And sadly but surely we are moving STRAIGHT towards the dogshit balancing of MO1 in this game aswell. This is literally shit that people have been saying since ALPHA. The game will slowly but SURELY get worse and the balancing is gonna become an absolute fucking joke. Cant wait untill we have sarduccan pets, demon bats, 1 shot weapon skills and all kinds of trash.

 

[Teknique]

You have some weird fucking delusion thinking I give a fuck about 1v1s and that what im saying is about 1v1s.

Let me break it down for you.

I have been and am constantly in WAY more group fights than you. I have 7 characters and have full archery.

I guess your idea of balancing the completely skilless and braindead mounted combat/magic in this game is having something else that is completely and utterly fucking broken like archery used to be in beta.

Also to be clear. I don't care if something is strong as long as it actually takes ANY semblance of skill whatsoever and can be countered. Something that mounteds cannot. Even if we had beta archery that was retarded strong, it would still not fucking matter because kids are riding around in tung horse armor on 300 HP horses healing them for 80s while sitting ontop of them. Kids get dismounted and mount right back up before you have enough time to kill them or their horse.

I don't see what your point is apart from crying about archery nerfs. Are you trying to say mounted is balanced in any way? I wont even mention pets cause there is not even any fucking question that shit is completely broken lmao.

Btw buddy. I know you have played since beta so it just makes it even funnier how fucking delusional you are. We have ALWAYS been in a fucking MM/MC/MA meta. Mounted has ALWAYS been braindead and too strong with no counters, get fucking real. The only time where you could argue it was balanced was when there was no horse armor and you could actually kill horses, LONG gone are those days LOL and i cant wait untill we have breeding ingame and kids are riding around on 1k HP horses.

This games balance is the biggest fucking joke in gaming only surpassed by MO1. And sadly but surely we are moving STRAIGHT towards the dogshit balancing of MO1 in this game aswell. This is literally shit that people have been saying since ALPHA. The game will slowly but SURELY get worse and the balancing is gonna become an absolute fucking joke. Cant wait untill we have sarduccan pets, demon bats, 1 shot weapon skills and all kinds of trash.

He believes that mounteds are severely underpowered. Mainly I believe because a foot fighter can bow his horse and he can't get the finish. He has 0 comprehension of the fact that mounted is a strong group fighting and support role. He is a candidate for worst player/ideas in the game.

He wants to see mounteds 1v1ing footfighters and he wants to see all mounted siege forces etc. That is what he means by mounted is broken underpowered.

 

[Kaemik]

He wants to see mounteds 1v1ing footfighters and he wants to see all mounted siege forces etc. That is what he means by mounted is broken underpowered.

View attachment 5284

When your arguments fail. I guess straight up fucking lying is an option. But maybe you aren't intentionally lying. Maybe your comprehension is just that low.

I've said repeatedly MC need to be able to work in conjunction with foot forces to make a mixed MC/Foot force stronger than pure foot, but that pure mounted should continue to lose to pure foot.

I've even specified HOW. Heavily armored / larger breed horses should deal trample damage. MC as a line AoE class can be balanced to make them useful support to foot builds without making strong enough to defeat foot forces 1:1 in an all mounted group. The current meta of one melee hit every blue moon can not be balanced as one shotting squishier builds is literally the only thing that would make it useful against foot forces. Something I DO NOT want to see happen. Though you're an idiot and a liar so I assume you will claim I do next post.

Go get deleted for melee casting as a hybrid again scrub.

 

[Kaemik]

Btw buddy. I know you have played since beta

Don't trust info from Putzin. Last time I played was 2 days ago. I've clocked a few hundrerd hours since beta. I realize that may not be much to those who clock thousands but I think it's sufficient.

I guess your idea of balancing the completely skilless and braindead mounted combat/magic in this game is having something else that is completely and utterly fucking broken like archery used to be in beta.

You mean back when everyone still put bows away to pull out melee weapons when their group pushed? Yeah. I'd like to see archery "broken" like that again. More broken even. I actually believe that if you full spec the archery line and build around it that you should be most effective using your bow in any scenario other than a melee closing on you and forcing you to fight in melee. You know, archer being an actual viable role to make your primary thing. Guess that's too extremist.

Man all these uppity roles that aren't foot melee expecting to be able to do something other than foot melee if they spec around it and actually be able to win fights. Sorry to ask for so much. Crazy to expect FF's to tolerate there being roles they are at a disadvantage against countered by something other than them.

 

[Kaemik]

He believes that mounteds are severely underpowered. Mainly I believe because a foot fighter can bow his horse and he can't get the finish. He has 0 comprehension of the fact that mounted is a strong group fighting and support role. He is a candidate for worst player/ideas in the game.

He wants to see mounteds 1v1ing footfighters and he wants to see all mounted siege forces etc. That is what he means by mounted is broken underpowered.

View attachment 5284

Just incase anyone was doubting this dude is either a liar or illiterate. Here are a couple posts I made while debating this very subject with Teknique

Ideally the way I would like to see mounted be balanced is where it requires fairly overwhelming numbers to wipe a foot force but powerful as a supplementary force to a good food force.

I would LIKE:

20-30% mounted and the rest foot > 100% foot > 100% mounted

Reality is:

100% foot > everything

And again speaking in terms of what would happen if MC became a line AoE trample build:

Essentially this means cav is a threat to footies only with significant numerical superiority OR allied footies that create opportunities for them to hit a flank (hammer and anvil tactics) and capitalize on the advantage that cav create by hitting the flank. That's balanced. That's exactly where MC needs to be.

Pretty clear where I stand on if mounted builds should be able to beat a similarly skilled foot force with even numbers. Provided you have the reading comprehension of a grade school child.

Dude is just sore because every time he talks about balanced he posts videos of himself sucking at PvP, and I finally stopped humoring him and pointed out that he does indeed suck. Which is probably hard to hear for someone who seems to build their whole image around believing they are good.

 

[UrDUumb]

Your suggestions have a lot of problems for one. You shouldn’t be able to run fast or long distance with heavy armor. You should be 50% of your normal speed. You shouldn’t be able to shoot a bow in heavy armor ridiculous that you can. You should be like a slow clunky defense turtle in heavy armor.

Everything else I’ll give some wiggle room on.

 

[Contorto]

I don't see what your point is apart from crying about archery nerfs. Are you trying to say mounted is balanced in any way? I wont even mention pets cause there is not even any fucking question that shit is completely broken lmao.

It funny to me to see people constantly cry about Pets being OP when fact is these same people just aren't good at blocking creatures in the game despite how MLG pro they claim to be at blocking in the game and how they claim they can perfect block 100% of the time.

Most of you people don't understand how much one sacrifices to control pets in this game, usually that your own ability to stay alive + your own ability to do any dmg, and top of that even the strongest pets don't do any dmg to a player in full steel armor. And while yes some pets have 600 HP that HP doesn't mean shit when you can hit the pet for 100-150 dmg per hit no mage is going to out heal the dmg from one guy slashing their pet for that much dmg. And to top it all off half you people don't even know how long it takes to level a pet to 125 which is the only level most pets become viable, but I'll tell you it takes 2 whole weeks to level 1 pet, and 3 people can still easily gank your pet before you can even react in town using flakestone weapons in less than 5s. And to finish it all off even if you are playing a tamer you either aren't using a horse because controlling a strong pet and a horse is impossible or your using a horse with 60 HP so you can at-least have a level 70 pet out.

To put it simply you claim you have more group experience than anyone else in this thread, but how many pets do you see running around in group fights? And when you do see them how long do they last before they fall over and die? Only thing pets are good for in this game are PVE outside of that Pets aren't worth using in PVP 90% of the time.

But hey I am talking to a guy who claims leveling up archery to use a bow is a waste of skill points, like yah sure go ahead and gimp your dmg by 50% and complain that your bows do no dmg.

 

[Jatix]

One-handed weapons - Should not be able to parry 2h weapons. As I find it not very convincing that a 120-str monster gets his maul swing parried by a tiny dagger or 1 handed weapon.

I stopped reading after this one. You are forgetting that this is a game and is supposed to be fun. Your 'balance suggestions' have nothing to do with functional gameplay. 1h weps already suck, and are only made viable by giant OP shields. They dont need to be worse.

 

[Hodo]

I stopped reading after this one. You are forgetting that this is a game and is supposed to be fun. Your 'balance suggestions' have nothing to do with functional gameplay. 1h weps already suck, and are only made viable by giant OP shields. They dont need to be worse.

I feel parrying should just go away, and it should only be blocks. But thats just me.