Small Change that Helps Balance Dex Builds

[Kaemik]

Currently stam works like this:

1 Stam Per Point STR
1 Stam Per Point DEX
2 Stam Per Point CON

I Suggest it work this way:

2 Stam Per Point DEX
2 Stam Per Point CON

So what does this do? This buffs builds with more dex, and nerfs builds with more stength, relative to the disparity between STR and DEX. Lets think about how that would effect some roles:

Foot Mages - Foot mages, especially dex mages, tend to have max dex and min str. This is a major buff to them giving about 80-130 more stam to most non-obese mage builds.

Thursar/Human Fighters - Humans and Thursars both tend to have decent to good STR and DEX. It is neither a major buff nor nerf to any of these builds though it does effect most of them minorly. Either positively or negatively.

Alvarin Fighters - Alvarins are a low strength high dex build even if they are a melee focused build. This is going to add about 50 stam to the average Alvarin fighter.

Ohgmir Fighters - Ohgmir have highest STR and CON in the game with the lowest Dex. Due to their high CON they still won't stam quickly but it will give them a sizeable hit that will make it so they are no longer insanely high stam as they are now.

^^^^

I see every one of these changes as a very good thing aside from Humans and Thursars. And it's only a minor effect for those races that can be easily balanced in the upcoming clade changes. I'd also add this is a realistic change. As someone who is 6'7" (200cm) IRL and fairly bulky/athletic, I can say with complete confidence. Big strong people are not endurance runners. I've always struggled more with running long distances than any other physical activity. ESPECIALLY ones like Ohgmirs with stubby little legs and a lot of body mass but even for a Thursar those long legs mean less than the huge bulk they have to carry. It makes sense to have smaller builds be the better endurance runners.

 

[Tzone]

Im not pushing for this change but I would rather see .5-.75 stamina from STR and 1.5-1.25 stamina from Dex. Dex is supposed to help dex builds with weakspot chance but thats RNG, the chance is very low, and unreliable.

The idea is that slower classes could catch up eventually to high ms classes because they would have less stamina to kite to far away with.

 

[Kaemik]

Weakspots are a garbage mechanic. But honestly I think Dex would remain balanced even with this change and some actual meaningful damage buffs. STR is never going to be a dump stat. Primary damage stat for melee, primary damage stat for bows, with the added bonuses of armor weight and inventory carry weight. It doesn't need stam on top of it. Just like the footfighters who use it as their primary stat are the only truly OP build in MO2 (Or more nearly every other build is underpowered), it's the most OP attribute in the game right now.

I think STR with no stam would be perfectly balanced against 2 stam DEX with major damage benefits to ranged builds and minor ones to melee. It's just THAT good right now that it can afford to lose a ton of ground and stay balanced. Honestly I think Psyche and Int need to be brought more on it's level in terms of combat utility as well (Though INT needs to lose ground on the crafting end if that happens)

 

[KermyWormy]

Currently stam works like this:

1 Stam Per Point STR
1 Stam Per Point DEX
2 Stam Per Point CON

This is not how stam value is calculated.

I'm looking at my guy right now

Str 118
Dex 96
Con 118

118+96+2(118)= 450

My guy has 380 stam including endurance skill.
If you're going to suggest numbers for future changes, you have to actually know what they are currently to do that.

That said, I agree that dex should have a greater influence on stamina. I think it makes a lot of sense and could help balancing the alvarin a bit. I might say strength over a certain level should possibly diminish stam. Also overall mass should maybe be involved, and Oghmir should weigh more than they do.

 

[Rorry]

Veela's should not get 430+ stamina. It will be unbalanced if they get to be fastest and have the most stamina.

 

[Kaemik]

Veela's should not get 430+ stamina. It will be unbalanced if they get to be fastest and have the most stamina.

It's their role. They are the lowest health, lowest damage, and have the lowest max armor weight. Speed isn't everything. Thursar/Khurite wasn't the meta forever because it was the fastest build. It was the fastest build that actually packed a punch.

Veela are fine with a bit more stam. They're still not going to replace Ohgmir as the meta footfighter. Especially when there are static assets like keeps to defend and you can't run away from every fight that matters.

 

[Speznat]

It's their role. They are the lowest health, lowest damage, and have the lowest max armor weight. Speed isn't everything. Thursar/Khurite wasn't the meta forever because it was the fastest build. It was the fastest build that actually packed a punch.

Veela are fine with a bit more stam. They're still not going to replace Ohgmir as the meta footfighter. Especially when there are static assets like keeps to defend and you can't run away from every fight that matters.

I kind agree and disagree im not sure. Its just my opinion I will play a veela myself xD
First mortal game. Has proven that speed is everything. thats why they changed the speed for MO2.

IM not sure on this. But the veela is not ment to fight 1vs1 in close combat. The veela is ment to be the asshole that hit fighters while they are battling an other opponent. Than if the guy the veela hits notice and turn to the veela than the veela is going for the next unaware target.

I might be completly wrong. But it makes the most sense how the veela is designed.
It also depends on what kind of style you play as a veela.

Also some other benefits that maybe fall under the table:
Sense entities were you can see people through walls and stuff.
Very fast stam regain by standing still.
Skinning gives all materials and 5%more. also 5% while butchery table.
Animals run away in a 20-30meter radius instead of 30-50.

I personally also would like more speed. That would be awesome. because I play veela myself.
But im not sure if that gives balance issues.

But here the difference in speed dont seem like much.
But dont forget that the veela regains his stamina nearly in half the time of all other classes.
SO he can ran faster. And a much longer distance in 50% less time.
If a thusar and a veela will run to GK from Fab
than maybe the thusar need 2.5 Hours
and the Veela would need 2Hours. or even less.
I think I should make another compare video. xD

 

[Rorry]

It's their role. They are the lowest health, lowest damage, and have the lowest max armor weight. Speed isn't everything. Thursar/Khurite wasn't the meta forever because it was the fastest build. It was the fastest build that actually packed a punch.

Veela are fine with a bit more stam. They're still not going to replace Ohgmir as the meta footfighter. Especially when there are static assets like keeps to defend and you can't run away from every fight that matters.

Thursar/Khurite were only the meta because they could out stam a veela. Give Veela more stam and they will be the meta, because you can indeed run away from every fight, at least temporarily until you find the advantage.
Speed isn't everything, true, stam matters as much or more. Both matter more than damage, especially with the parry system we have now.
Max armor weight doesn't matter either, everyone would just wear high end scales or cronite like in MO1.
Also, we have a variety of footfighters now, perhaps too much to actually say that Oghmir is meta. Plus, I think they are about to be nerfed at the end of the month.

 

[Tzone]

I think they should raise the ms cap tho. From mortal data they show it capped at 450. Skinny builds hit that wall while lean builds almost. No reason to go skinny if that is the ms cap. Lean gives better stats with almost the same move speed on veela.

Im just assuming what mortal data is showing is true.

A different thing they could do is have a better curve for walk speeds from dex but keep the run capped at the 450. It looks like there is a big curve or even a cap on walk speed too.

Veela at least is finally getting runners high fixed which allows them to gain stamina back for 10s (I think) every 10 minutes. This will really help fix veelas problems.

 

[Rorry]

Mortal data also shows that an overweight Veela sprints out of combat at the same speed as an Oghmir does in combat, if that is true then the difference in stam pools is much smaller than the numbers on paper would suggest.
I don't know why people choose skinny/lean veela builds then complain about how bad veelas are. Just go overweight, have 197 hp, 350 stamina, and combat sprint at 436 speed.

 

[Tzone]

Mortal data also shows that an overweight Veela sprints out of combat at the same speed as an Oghmir does in combat, if that is true then the difference in stam pools is much smaller than the numbers on paper would suggest.
I don't know why people choose skinny/lean veela builds then complain about how bad veelas are. Just go overweight, have 197 hp, 350 stamina, and combat sprint at 436 speed.

Over weight build for veela is the best build and probably meta if not for some bugs especially on oghmir with animations.

My complaint is that skinny veela has little bonus to being fast compared to a lean veela which also has more STR. Skinny on every other clade is a much bigger step in speed then veela.

 

[KermyWormy]

Mortal data also shows that an overweight Veela sprints out of combat at the same speed as an Oghmir does in combat, if that is true then the difference in stam pools is much smaller than the numbers on paper would suggest.
I don't know why people choose skinny/lean veela builds then complain about how bad veelas are. Just go overweight, have 197 hp, 350 stamina, and combat sprint at 436 speed.

I think overweight veela is decent, but at that point you're down to only like 5% combat speed difference from most foot builds and have the poor dmg bonus and 30 stamina deficit, so you're relying on like Alvarin clade gifts to bring you back up to par with something like a full khurite or thur/Khur, or Oghmir. Alvarin clades are cool or crap depending on who you talk to, but are still unfinished so we'll have to see.

I think the balance is pretty close for the most part, or it's at least close enough that clade gifts can be used to really decide how or what you want to play.

 

[Kaemik]

I always run Stout for Veela. It's got lower health than most builds but it's decent health for a Veela. The thing is, even a stout Veela has garbage strength compared to any other race but Sheevra. Their melee damage is crap. Their archery damage is alright. Overweight loses an additional 5 STR. At that point you may as well go Khurite. AKA the worse race in the game. At least it has decent strength though, even if Kallard is better in literally every single aspect other than it's mediocre speed.

That being said, I play an MA if I want to be a harasser these days. Veelas are going to die in the meta as soon as anything but magic works underwater. We'll have mount armor by then which is the primary reason MAs haven't replaced them already everywhere but GK and Meduli. I'd rather be practicing a build that is currently bad with known fixes coming than a build that is doomed to irrelevance when broken mechanics like water fighting get fixed.

 

[Rorry]

Why will Veelas die out when there's water combat? They should swim faster and use magic and melee.
In my opinion, SV should keep bow use disabled underwater.

 

[Kaemik]

Why will Veelas die out when there's water combat? They should swim faster and use magic and melee.
In my opinion, SV should keep bow use disabled underwater.

Two reasons. Veela hybrids/dex mages are currently the best kill confirmer builds in water fights, and also because if they hit the water they are home free from 90% of builds. The main counter for them underwater is other Alvarin with magic as they're going to quickly leave a Huergar or something in the dust while they try to charge their spells to finish them. If archery and melee worked underwater that would instantly end as you'd have pursuers that don't even need to stop to charge their attacks.

Also with planned underwater dungeons and naval combat it's insane to have any combat style not work underwater with the exception of mounted. Heck even for mounted I'd say add some dolphins or something. I realize you're literally the most anti-everything-but-footfighter player in the entire MO2 community but wanting an entire damage type made useless under water is pretty insane even for you.

 

[KermyWormy]

It'll probably end up being just stabs and magic under water if I remember from MO1, anything more than that starts to get a little too weird.

 

[Kaemik]

Then they need to stop discussing underwater dungeons/continents probably. Makes no sense to create content that excludes entire playstyles from meaningful participation.

 

[Rorry]

Two reasons. Veela hybrids/dex mages are currently the best kill confirmer builds in water fights, and also because if they hit the water they are home free from 90% of builds. The main counter for them underwater is other Alvarin with magic as they're going to quickly leave a Huergar or something in the dust while they try to charge their spells to finish them. If archery and melee worked underwater that would instantly end as you'd have pursuers that don't even need to stop to charge their attacks.

Also with planned underwater dungeons and naval combat it's insane to have any combat style not work underwater with the exception of mounted. Heck even for mounted I'd say add some dolphins or something. I realize you're literally the most anti-everything-but-footfighter player in the entire MO2 community but wanting an entire damage type made useless under water is pretty insane even for you.

Less anti everything but footfighter, more anti OP shit that we have already been through and hopefully learned from so we don't have to do it again player.

 

[Kaemik]

When 90% of the playerbase play one general build and you give negative feedback about literally anything else you're clearly not anti-OP shit. Mind you I don't want to see melee nerfed. I just want to see literally everything else buffed. Small buffs for some. Huge for others.

This is a position that barely needs arguing. People are not so honorable that 90% of people play the build even though the builds people say they WANT to play are incredibly diverse because they "don't want to play OP builds" in a competitive game.

The reason Veelas got overtaken in the meta by Ohgs and Thursars is those builds are straight better. Not like "They each have their niche". Ohgs are straight up better at the role they are supposed to fill than veela to the point mono-role footfighter groups with all Ohgs are now viable. Not just viable, GOOD. 80-90% Ohgs with 1 mage for every 5-10 guys to support is the actual meta at his point. The fact people are still calling ANYTHING else OP is beyond insanity.

 

[Rorry]

Yes, right now Oghs are the OP shit, but they are about to be nerfed from what I understand. When they can no longer use the pipe in the same way or heal for so much, people will lose some interest in them. Not that I think you are correct about 80-90% of the server being Ogh, though maybe so among serious pvper's.
Thursars are already balanced better, and if it weren't for how hard it is to farm and maintain reputation for them there would likely be more.
There are still plenty of humans and alvarin in game, though.
My main character is a human paladin, btw, and the only Ogh I have is a MA.