Skillrates on persistence

[Craksh]

Hello,

Im marking my concerns regarding the new player experience. A big issue we had in MO1 was when bringing new players to the game they where so slow and so weak that they had to hit a pig or a target dummy for several hours before it was worth going out into the world. When making a character your not making a new born child, your taking on a life of a character at the age of 18+. Which would involve both basic movement and basic strength however the attributes we get might not be sufficient.

As of now when we have 100x skill gains, a new player can actually go out and play the game straight from character creation. What I mean with this is that inorder to train my sword skills, I go out and fight creatures and the sword skill naturally levels up as I explore and fight.

I just want to spread some light on that when the skill gains is removed, we have to look carefully on how new players experience the natural flow of the game. Have you been in any MMO where you start out and you can barley kill a single thing? Its a progression where you can start kill some things and it levels up from there.

Its hard to say exact numbers but having the skill gain increased by some margin for some skills (like swords, sprinting, breathing teq) to lets say 50 in skill mabye would be a good approach. This would allow you to be able to go out in the world and level your skills (because you could acutally kill some things) instead of hitting the dummy for an hour or so.

Im not sure how this would be done for mages in a balanced way. Mabye mental offense get a slight skill gain increase to 50ish.

While talking about new player experience, ive seen people asking how to get back to life after dying. A popup explaining that you now entered the etherworld and the red beams points out the priest and also explaning nearest priest/home priest function would be good.

 

[Speznat]

It is faster than you think, if they reduce it to the normal speed. Than you can also level up for example your sword skill to 100 in 1-2 Hours. Without a problem.

Just in my opinion even the normal speed is to fast.

We need super fast skill up or very slow skill up. But the normal speed how it was in MO1 is bad in my opinion.
We would now one of these extremes and stick to it.

But lets see what star vault will do.

 

[Kebek]

Yeah I also believe the rates will be too fast when release hits. It should take several months to fully skill up a character.

 

[Craksh]

It is faster than you think, if they reduce it to the normal speed. Than you can also level up for example your sword skill to 100 in 1-2 Hours. Without a problem.

Just in my opinion even the normal speed is to fast.

We need super fast skill up or very slow skill up. But the normal speed how it was in MO1 is bad in my opinion.
We would now one of these extremes and stick to it.

But lets see what star vault will do.

When you say sword skill to a 100 within 1-2 hours, is that hitting a pig or going around exploring the graveyard grabbing kills? Because instantly hitting pigs or a dummy for 2 hours straight is not fast in my eyes, and would be extremly harmful to a new player experiance.

I also want to be clear, it should only be rather fast to a certain point and for certain skills as I explained. Like swords to 50-60 skill, so that you can use it, but you havnt mastered it.

 

[Amadman]

Some progression is good for the game. Full skill points is not going to help a new player much when they have little to no gear and experience playing anyway.

Sure they should not start off like a new born but, Movement speed and all that is much better at start than it was in the past. Plus the tutors give some quick gains to many skills. Which gives new players a boost right from the start.

 

[Jhackman]

Should copy rs. Seems like a pretty popular skilling system.

 

[Snozzle]

I hope lvling speeds are non linear in persistence, with the first 50 or so lvls relatively quick to obtain thereafter tapering off until mastery is achieved.

The object of course is to allow a new player to become moderately effective early on, and thus not at a massive disadvantage and able to compete, with the final stretch towards mastery becoming more time consuming and a reward and advantage for grinding it out.

Whilst on the topic of lvling speed, I would like to address the book reading speeds. In my view 300 hours to read a skill to max is obnoxiously slow and equates to 1.8 weeks if you where to only do it offline passively. My preference would be a cap of 24 hours maximum for the slowest books with everything else in between. If the books are a fundamental part of the games' design then please cap it at a week. Anything longer is silly in my opinion.

 

[Woody]

I hope lvling speeds are non linear in persistence, with the first 50 or so lvls relatively quick to obtain thereafter tapering off until mastery is achieved.

The object of course is to allow a new player to become moderately effective early on, and thus not at a massive disadvantage and able to compete, with the final stretch towards mastery becoming more time consuming and a reward and advantage for grinding it out.

Whilst on the topic of lvling speed, I would like to address the book reading speeds. In my view 300 hours to read a skill to max is obnoxiously slow and equates to 1.8 weeks if you where to only do it offline passively. My preference would be a cap of 24 hours maximum for the slowest books with everything else in between. If the books are a fundamental part of the games' design then please cap it at a week. Anything longer is silly in my opinion.

On the matter of books, yes they have an offline component which is handy but the assumption is they're not the primary way to gain experience. They're a passive boost to the active training of skills.

 

[Snozzle]

On the matter of books, yes they have an offline component which is handy but the assumption is they're not the primary way to gain experience. They're a passive boost to the active training of skills.

Do they also increase the rate at which you obtain experience for the skill you are training? That would make a great deal more sense if they act as a multiplier,

Still I find the design principle odd but ive only played with the skills at 100x. Perhaps allowing one to train with multiple books active would work.

 

[Woody]

Do they also increase the rate at which you obtain experience for the skill you are training? That would make a great deal more sense if they act as a multiplier

No just give passive exp and unlock the skill

 

[agui]

This topic is absolute important.

It is time to change the exp amount you get for raising your skills... nobody need to suffer like we did in mo1 .. . thats the past and should stay in the past ... ppl now a days need more and fast satisfaction to stay tunned and give a chance to the game .... that game will still be a hardcore game even with fast xp gain.


Important to say that now a days u can just butch a pig get some emalj and make a ok weapon to bang ... dont need much to have " fun ".


If ,when persistent comes, ppl need hours to raise their skills ... that would be really bad ... and anyoing ,even for veteran players, .... we already have huge map 6x bigger then last one ... its enough pain to support already to move around it.

My proposal would be to just stay the speed we have now in beta tests ... BUT with some exceptions ...

So for player skills should be the amount of xp we already receives now in BEta .. and for the profession skills could be the xp 100 times slower or whatever seems fit for that pourpose ... if u can name a weapon or extract high end material ... those things should be done for master crafters and extractors ... that would be their job ... so i know we need to preserve a slow xp rate for profissions skills , this make totally sense

But slower xp gainning rate for normal skills? Thats just destroy the gameplay for everyone ... sv think about that.

 

[Snozzle]

Could not agree more Agui. Im all for the design principles to be Hardcore sandbox MMO but that should not be at the expense of making the game actually playable. Theres alot of competition out there, we are spoilt compared to the early days of MMO design and we dont all have 5 hours plus to sink into just one game each day.

The art will be drawing a fine line between satisfying those who can invest a great deal of time into the game whilst still making the systems appealing, rewarding and meaningful for new players and time limited or so called casual players. Unless they want to alienate a large proportion of their potential playerbase.

 

[agui]

Could not agree more Agui. Im all for the design principles to be Hardcore sandbox MMO but that should not be at the expense of making the game actually playable. Theres alot of competition out there, we are spoilt compared to the early days of MMO design and we dont all have 5 hours plus to sink into just one game each day.

The art will be drawing a fine line between satisfying those who can invest a great deal of time into the game whilst still making the systems appealing, rewarding and meaningful for new players and time limited or so called casual players. Unless they want to alienate a large proportion of their potential playerbase.

Yep man ... we grow up we have a job , family etc and things to solve in real life ... i eddited a bit my post ... see what you think ... player skills fast rate xp gain and profession slow rate xp gain ... that dont change the main henrik idea ... to have master crafters , extractors etc .... and make game more viable for new ppl

 

[agui]

Other point to add is that ... increase xp gain only on player skills - not professions skill - will not prevent to ppl reroll their character ... if that a fear.

Reroll is a right to anyone to ajust to their build he feels better with ... and for murders that rerolls ... inscreasing xp gain or not wont change their objective in game.

And ofc red players (murders with more then 10 kills) can go in any blue City if has enough reputation... so reroll cant be a fear of this proposal.

 

[Bladeer01]

well when i see a book asking me 300h i fear skilling xd ; i would like to have a half half thing ; like skill either profession or combat up to 50 real fast with book , and then 50 to 100 done normal mo1 speed by hand

i feel like it would balance the game and still speed thing up a lot ;

for those who didnt try mo1 crafting , and fear the early use of endgame mat ( ogmium cronite tung ) it take A WHOLE BUIG FKING LOT to raise a few lvl and be efficient with said mat ^^

 

[Woody]

They've already talked about allowing us to test skill gains with normal rates a few weeks before persistence. Perhaps we should wait until then before jumping to any conclusions about the pacing of the game.

 

[Bladeer01]

They've already talked about allowing us to test skill gains with normal rates a few weeks before persistence. Perhaps we should wait until then before jumping to any conclusions about the pacing of the game.

without that you still have a numbers of hour show ; any mid range skill book require 67 h to read that's almost 3 day , high range go fromm 267 to 500 maybe ?

 

[agui]

They've already talked about allowing us to test skill gains with normal rates a few weeks before persistence. Perhaps we should wait until then before jumping to any conclusions about the pacing of the game.

I shoot first ask later ... jokes a part thats a good idea if they remember henrik just said now in twicht they already have things done... so one more motive to say here we need that change.


About books ... blade .. thats not in game hours to read ...

 

[Woody]

without that you still have a numbers of hour show ; any mid range skill book require 67 h to read that's almost 3 day , high range go fromm 267 to 500 maybe ?

Books aren't supposed to be the be all end all of skilling but a gateway to learn skills and get some passive exp as a bonus while you're offline. This is especially relevant for the likes of crafting, because the expectation is you will use resources and create low quality items in order to gain expertise. The assumption isn't to allow you to just zoom through to max level with a book and a cup of tea. Same goes for combat, you have to get out in the world and do things - that or sit in town and train on players/dummies

 

[Papito]

MMO's need fresh players continuously to survive. If people are not able to be effective in a reasonable amount of time they will just move on to another game. Also, the game will be basically early access and they will make sweeping changes which will require people to change their skills around. Days of MMO's being a job are over but people with lots of free time still push for the grind for the advantage. The barrier to entry has to be low or just will have wolves chase off all the sheep.