Remove reagents from vendors

[ZVNII]

yeah i see what you mean there. But there's also the case of the new mage experience, where they would not know where these pickables are and would have to explore the world litterally empty handed with no way to defend themselves, and if only the mage population is out looking for reageants it wont fix that one issue you were debating with yourself about, making mage kills feel rewarding, they would just go picking stuff naked with nothing on them




yeah we all are waiting on the new magic schools and all those reagents are the biggest chore to gather, and need other players to make, so yeah ECU wont be a thing much longer aside from discount spells and EQ for mounted

While new player experience is a thing to consider it should not dominate the entire dynamic and economy of the game in any regard. New players on mages will have to find a patch of calamine next to town via haven tutorial or whatever. Maybe the current reagent vendor will tell you. Hell, leave reagents on teh vendor but make them limited with slow recharge (this was done in legends of aria, similar to ultima online). I can't stress this enough but if this suggestions is considered, there should be more pick-able spots near / in the town making the resource "depletable" instead of abundant.

Exploring the world was never a bad thing. Having nothing to defend yourself would probably not be the problem if the patches get added near the towns as ALL the examples i gave are places (carrots / cabbage, rice, sea dew) that are currently safe. Also lets be honest, mages can never defend themselves anyway.

People / new players could pick pick-ables and sell on the broker for quick money. You could put up "tasks" for people to sell you reagents. There are so many angles how this will benefit everyone. Mages would end up having to put in a little more engagement for the same thing. Killing a mage gives you "pick-ables that you have to buy from players at slight inconvenience" would feel better than killing a mage that gives "vendor trash".

 

[ZVNII]

I personally dont like the idea. That would put young mages so far behind in the begin of the game .

I always question propositions like this cause some places is easy to gather material that worth alot then basic stuff like calamine.

I.e. sulfur in GK ... extremely easy to gather on the ground and ppl used to sell in tindrem 40 or so for 4g ... imagine get a stack and move to tindrem and sell small quantities... easy gold.

So for me i like how it is today i woukdnt change it.

but What SV should do is change magic dmg against npc...

should do x2 or x3 dmg ( or higher) against only npc's (animals and monsters, not guards) ... to make mages abble to farm.

other thing is to make asap a shield protector spell for ecumenical book ... to be used by mages only on farming against npcs pourpose .... to help mages farm alone, negating so dmg made by wolfes and agressive animals in the wild.

I feel like the only way you can say this is if you didn't read or understand most of what I have been saying about the avaliability of pick ables and teh likes, if my suggestion was considered.

 

[Evelyn]

No. This gigantic map is already too large and waste too much of player's time as-is. Expecting people to just not have Ichor unless they fight through the GK zerg to go mine some Tephra and then have to also have Intermediate Ore Extraction + relevant lores or spend dozens of hours farming zombies has got to be the dumbest, most short-sighted suggestion I've ever seen.

Pyrite, Cuprum, Jadeite, and Coal are not available on vendors. Spirits will be removed from vendors when Spiritism isn't half-finished. Later spells in the spellbook also require reagents not on vendors.

By comparison, why is it fair that Archers to get to make bows that cost nothing and can buy arrows for less money than a single pig kill? This whole thread is short-sighted.

 

[Rorry]

The issue with mages not being able to PvE effectively has nothing to do with the issue that preparation cost and cost of gearing is too low in comparison to every other playstyle. These issues need to be addressed separately.

They are 100% intertwined. PVE is the main way that gold enters the economy.
Side note:
SV also need to make it so that not every mage has to be a butcher to pve, as well. Need to be able to farm humanoids. Until then, it is ridiculous to talk about making mages more expensive to run.

 

[MolagAmur]

This just sounds like one of those changes that would make things more annoying while adding zero benefit to anyone.

 

[agui]

This just sounds like one of those changes that would make things more annoying while adding zero benefit to anyone.

Perfect comment.

 

[Tzone]

I wish I could buy endgame weapons from town vendors for super cheap like mages can. Already so strong combined with being so easy to regear. A lot of mages dont even wear armor, just a shield when group pvping.

I think calamine can stay as for heals are nice to have. But a lot of the other stuff should have to be produced like regular gear has too.

 

[Kelzyr]

I wish I could buy endgame weapons from town vendors for super cheap like mages can. Already so strong combined with being so easy to regear. A lot of mages dont even wear armor, just a shield when group pvping.

I think calamine can stay as for heals are nice to have. But a lot of the other stuff should have to be produced like regular gear has too.

Ecumenical spells are not endgame spells...this is the main problem with magic ATM, until they implement more magic this is what mages have. I think that ecumenical spells should be nerfed in terms of damage and healing when there are more powerful schools of magic to replace them. These spells should be seen as starter spells, equivalent to say flakestone weapons.

You can refer to my earlier post about ways to fix the low cost of mage gearing.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Really? You want to make the class that can't pve effectively have to pve to get their "gear?" Even requiring more expensive reagents isn't a good idea as it is so very much harder to make gold as a mage.

I think you're right.

I do not think the system concocted by players in EverQuest ("Everybody, bring <reagent(s)> if you want me to cast <expensive spell>") would work in Mortal Online 2, either.

 

[Woody]

I think you're right.

I do not think the system concocted by players in EverQuest ("Everybody, bring <reagent(s)> if you want me to cast <expensive spell>") would work in Mortal Online 2, either.

This is a core pillar of the design of the game though? "How much are you prepared to lose when you go out into the wilderness". It's the literal reason we have different tiers of armor, weapons, bows etc.

 

[Najwalaylah]

This is a core pillar of the design of the game though? "How much are you prepared to lose when you go out into the wilderness". It's the literal reason we have different tiers of armor, weapons, bows etc.

I just can't imagine many MO2 players brinding along reagents to give to their healers and other kinds of mages, though.

 

[Thiar]

As the title suggests, I want mage reagents to be more valuable. There are already ways to get all reagents in decent quantity via pickables and extraction. Add a few more ways to get calamine, few more pickables and we good. I have stacks (getting stuff from pve is too easy in thsi game) of calamine with no use - from extraction. I have a few hundred hours on my mage, there is hardly any preparation to getting ready for fights compared to other archetypes. Gearing process is super fast and easy. It does not feel rewarding to spend time on building a thicc bank. It does not feel rewarding to kill a mage either in terms of their potential loot.

At the same time it is really lame how strong magic is in a group fight situation for how small the investment is. Just for the fun of it i was browsing the UO spells book and some reagents were a chore to get... Not 1 silver from a vendor in any town. I hope this currently is only like this for testing purposes and will change once servers go persistent.

On a tiny side note it would be awsome to have spell books or wands or something that enhance your magic. These items can be built with valuable materials to further put some investment into making your mage combat ready. More of a gold / time sink. Maybe enable parrying with these items maybe not. Make characters with well built wands get some sort of advantage for example better concentration (currently 40% chance to prevent interruption). Mages have a huge problem with getting casts interrupted while getting hit for 0 and handle hits. Having a cronite spell book could maybe eliminate this but ofc drop on death.

Which reagents are you talking about in UO? Magery and necromancy reagents can all be bought from normal vendors. These 2 are the main magic skills in the game both pve/pvp.

EDIT:Forgot Mysticism. All reagents can be bought normal mysticism vendors. Chivalry just needs you to sacrifice gold to Ankh.

EDIT2: Only chore was to get spellweaving arcane focus to get spellweaving spells more powerful but thats little bit different story. Here's description how it worked:

Spoiler: Arcane focus

Duration: 1-5 hours (Skill Level Real / 240, minimum 1) (+1 hour per additional arcanist)
Area of Effect: Caster and up to 4 other arcanists standing within an arcane circle.

• The caster and up to four participating arcanists must stand inside an arcane circle.
• Participants must be within 20 spellweaving skill points of each other.
• When the caster invokes this spell, a magically charged emerald (called an arcane focus) is created for the caster and each participating arcanist.
• The arcane focus increases duration, spell damage, healing spell effectiveness, and area of effect for the activator’s Spellweaving spells.
• The level of power of the focus is increased by one if the arcane circle at West Britain Bank or in Prism Of Light is used. This makes a level six focus possible with four other players.

Be aware: If you cast Arcane Circle after you already have a focus, the old one will always be replaced with the newer, so there’s the potential to actually downgrade.

This could be easily done with 4 alts (because UO is f2p also now). Only downside was if you had 120 spellweaving you had to level speallweaving to 100 to all the alts to make it happen but I know people did it to save time..

 

[Xunila]

Some reagents aren't available at the vendor, e.g. pyrite and cuprum. Spells like greater healing and earthquake can't be used by new players. Trying a mage should not become impossible in Haven for new players, so you need at least some reagents in Haven. Starting an archer is easy with some wood and e.g. bone tissue, same for some foot fighter weapons.

StarVault removed a number of reagents from the reagent vendor In MO1 after the first years, at least bor and nitre or sulfur.

As a last consequence the reagent vendor should be removed at all, because all reagents can either be gathered (bor, calamine, nitre, sulfur) or drop from animals (nitre from e.g. nitre guardian) or are extracted from rocks (cuprum, calamine, rock oil, pyrite, coal, sulfur, ichor).

 

[Rhias]

If they solve the "You need to buy the whole stack at the Veredary" and make it so that you can buy a certain quantity of items, then it would be no issue at all to remove the resources from the vendor.

 

[AssassinOTL]

Also lets be honest, mages can never defend themselves anyway.

this breaks my heart and i'm doing what I can to see if SV can make it so that it's at least in the realm of possibility. after that happens then yea what you're proposing could def make the gameplay more engaging in that regard, but in the state it is in now, i cant see it being good for now, it's an even trade off, that's why the Advanced magic schools all have reagents you have to farm from PVE they are not even pickable

 

[MolagAmur]

this breaks my heart and i'm doing what I can to see if SV can make it so that it's at least in the realm of possibility. after that happens then yea what you're proposing could def make the gameplay more engaging in that regard, but in the state it is in now, i cant see it being good for now, it's an even trade off, that's why the Advanced magic schools all have reagents you have to farm from PVE they are not even pickable

Well everyone voting for necromancy wasn't a step in that direction lol. I can't help but to think staff magic is the answer to a mage being more able to 1v1.

 

[Rolufe]

This would literally make it impossible for a mage to be a mage until they do some mining/extracting...All melee and archers just go to a vendor to buy some starter weapons.

I could understand removing some of the reagents but don't remove all of them.

Everyone complains about how mages don't cost as much to gear. You understand this is because warriors have no actual incentive to wear any light armor. Mages are practically FORCED to...Maybe we should be asking for a reason for FF to be wearing lighter armors so their cost to equip goes down?

Sure you don't have to spend as much for your reagents in comparison to a melee weapon, but bows are almost just as cheap.

Footfighters will probably use medium armor(bone or scales) most of the time until there is a siege and they put on the best gear(cronite/tungsteel/ogh) they can similar to how it was in MO1. However there is little reason to wear messing or steel at any given time other than RP. Its weight is to high for the defense you get and the negative effects the weight brings. There might now be a reason you would use light armor to even further reduce the stam penalties as it is now scaling properly on the weight. So you could use weapons with high stam drain but be less penalized to do so. I cant say for sure as i havnt tested this since the change. But could be worth it now

 

[AssassinOTL]

Well everyone voting for necromancy wasn't a step in that direction lol. I can't help but to think staff magic is the answer to a mage being more able to 1v1.

i think it's a trust thing, staff magic sounds good in concept right? but the entire class is built around having a pet to defend it to do anything. and that's literally coming from our CEO so I don't want to hear it when I bring a DK when called out in 1v1s XD or a Dom pet. but i digress.... Staff magic sounds like a good concept until you look at the way they hide all of Mage's stats behind things like weight and age, you will never have a Mage be able to stand up to a FF if you put a staff in his hand and have the same rules apply as before, here are the reasons

1. Negative Damage bonus. if that Staff doesn't do magic damage that scales off of INT instead of Blunt for strength. then it becomes a useless gimmick School that people might as well have a shield on their back for blocking arrows.

2. Casting. If casting is not sped up to a speed that is usable in melee distance, again it's now just a gimmick school that is inefficient and useless with a 60% chance to interrupt... "but look you can parry!" nice memes I could do that with a dagger before and will do more damage unless you fix issue number 1

3. Blocking/Parry. Ok well now you have something to "1v1" as a mage... but you don't have blocking skill that makes you take damage through Parries! oh sorry about the oversight. We didn't think with our heads ig you have to just try and cast and when they are in range you die either way because the mage Schools and skills are so demanding we don't have points to put into blocking most times so full commit to this one class for "meh" results

4. (I'll just stop here but there's more) Range. So they have a decision to make here that I don't trust the first implementation to get right just yet. SV understands very well what range a caster needs to be effective and make the melee or ranged character feel like they need to do anything other than hold W to win. My evidence? the Bandit Casters and healers. They know how to make something feel challenging very intimately, because the community complained bandits were too easy of a farm. they put in the appropriate response with casters that have proper range, and the difficulty was never spoken about again. Now why wouldn't you give this simple change to the PC mages? it's because "the schools are not in yet to do that function" but the bandits are using the same school... unless Staff can fix the range problem for the "Range" class mages are, then it will fail to be a viable class, because like I said before it does need to cover close range as well, as a new school it's going to be hard for them to pull off this balance. Necromance pulls off a lot of these issues in round about ways and mages know it and cant wait for it.

 

[Amadman]

If the items are not available in the world yet then I can see a vendor filling that need.

But in the end it should be other players that fill this demand in a game designed to be player driven.

Once buy orders are reintroduced, it should be easier for Mages to get such items from other players.

 

[Jatix]

Mages buying their reagents isn't the issue. Mage is just designed questionably, and needs a real rework to its risk v reward.

Mage sucks at pve. Mage does huge damage in pvp, while needing 0 gear and a couple silver in reagents. Its just stupid. But that needs a big rework to be fixed. Spellbooks should be like other weapons, where they degrade and drop on death, with good spells or higher damage numbers from good ones. Then reagents being cheap will be fine.

And then they need to do some things to make mage more viable at PVE.