PvP Gameplay loop and Reputation system

[foe]

Credit to Skylandr for the inspiration for this thread:

Nerfing red priest locations before TC priests = bad idea,
new red priests for castles = fine bandaid fix for castle owning guild members (cant live out of castle still btw)
not a castle owning guild member? = bad.

Red priest change to stop new player griefers - didnt stop them and force people to be ultra blue pve citizen or perma red murder psycho because of red priest inconvenience, many blue and red pvpers quit game entirely
Red priest change = affected not just new player griefers, but sensible consensual parcel running blue pvp players.

Want to stop certain player behavior use the murder count and reputation systems to accurately punish them
Kill undeserving player (innocent noob, pve rock hitter, etc) = punishment, Kill pvper who lose fight = no punishment
Currently, Kill most people regardless of noob or casual pvper = punishment
SV need to make the distinction between the gameplay types of players to balance their capability independently.


conceptual pvp gameplay loop fix:

• MC punishment is exclusively to force inconvenient red priest rez.

• Power to give rep loss+murder count only for players who relinquish power and compartmentalize their gameplay as a way to differentiate themselves from Red and Blue/"Purple" pvpers. (Purple as in Blues that PvP and parcel constantly for rep)

• Gameplay implementation might look like: pve noob player with X% of max rep (90%?) , or X amt of rep, can then give rep loss + mc. A gameplay privilege that wont be sustained by those who are not of this playstyle while relinquishing power to constantly pvp. Will need to mess with rep numbers, potentially scale all of them up universally to fit this reputation investment

• Increase murder count punishment from 5 -> 35; check internal analytics of real red players and its avg is 80+

Blue player

"Purple" player

Red player

Can enter towns	Can enter towns	Cant enter towns
Can give rep loss + murder count	Cant give rep loss + murder count	Cant give rep loss + murder count
Spawn blue priest	Spawn blue/red priest (based on MC's)	Spawn Red priest
1-time rep farm	Continuous rep farm	No rep farm

Lawless zones are said to be coming which is a useful tool, but should not be used in large swathes of the map to fix consensual pvpers in the wild from giving undeserved penalties to those who killed them in a consensual non-griefing way. Lawless zones should be restricted to small areas of the map where there is full awareness and consent given that they are going into a dangerous area; tepra crater, mino dungeon, risar dungeon, etc. If Lawless zones are implemented into large areas of the map, and not exclusively dangerous areas, it will be an unelegant contrived non-sandbox method.

Murder Counter decay timer should only be active while online always and should be reduced; by a third or quarter perhaps.
8 hours per MC decay is quite tough, that's higher than the average player's session. Also receiving a new murder count SHOULD NOT RESET THE MURDER COUNT DECAY TIMER. The murder count decay timer should be accumulative otherwise there are moments where you've burned 90% of your timer and if you were to kill again it would simply reset the timer and your progression has been lost.

 

[Hodo]

So a more complicated flag system?

Instead of what I suggested a while ago.

Leave the guard range of a town, and you go grey... everyone in the wild is grey. No murder counts in the wild.. who reports a murder when the victim is dead. CSI doesnt exist in Nave.

But this isnt what SV wants.

 

[foe]

So a more complicated flag system?

Instead of what I suggested a while ago.

Leave the guard range of a town, and you go grey... everyone in the wild is grey. No murder counts in the wild.. who reports a murder when the victim is dead. CSI doesnt exist in Nave.

But this isnt what SV wants.

I don't think this would be more complicated rather less complicated in fact.

If you have extremely high reputation with a certain faction you are prompted with the dialog box that allows you to give the person who killed you the reputation + murder count. It will be almost all non-PvPers who make this investment to retain the benefit. So essentially only little innocent pve noobs will be the people who you receive punishments for killing and not casual pvpers in end game dungeons giving you rep loss + mc.

Your more hardcore suggestion is more my style and is definitely logically consistent, but i'm willing to compromise my more hardcore liking for the casuals to play easier.

 

[Bladeer01]

whatever anyone say , it's something horribly more complicated thant that ;

listen as i said a number of time , i'm like 95M pve 5 % pvp ( and i'm bad a it xd )

i don't want safe pve zone , pve server or thing like that
i do agree that you need more red priest

but what can we do ...

i would agree that you need more murdercount before being flagged red maybe 10 or so , but hey , as a solo player i'm sorta happy to tell the priest to put a mc on the guy that jsut zerged me , knowing that they will stay "nice" for a bit of time ;

but concerning being able to give rep loss / mc ; i didn"t understand the whole point , but i think that as long as you have a mc at the moment , or even a grey timer in the last gametime hour , you shouldn't be able to give it

 

[Tzone]

The casual player would be the purple player. A player that would like to log in and with in a hour to two hour session get some action and make some progress.

How much action do you get at a purple player in mo2?

About 15 min runs for rep that might let your kill 1-2 players. So 1/4 of your playtime is rep farming. Not counting travel to a place to fight. So if you are a casual player who wants PvP and you just ran your rep mission and you have about 45 mins left to play for the day, where do you go. Right out side of town because the world is big and roaming around for 45 mins you might only find a fight once in that 45 mins and then be to far out from town to return in that time.

And then the fights usually only last for 5 mins. So you spend 15 minutes to get rep to begin to go out and try to fight other players. Very poor work to reward ratio. And loot is not the reward for PvP. Most of the loot you get is garbage and has to be deleted.

And like skylandr said you have to walk 20-30 minutes back to town. On top of a 15 min parcel run for a 5 min fight outside of town because why waste your time roaming to a place thats so far away from where you need to return to.

PvP is the reward for PvP. You dont go out to fight for loot, you go out and PvE for loot to go fight people for fun.
Every once in a while you see a dude with a steel sword that you are like lets gank this kid, but thats not why most people log in to play.

Like Foe said, The red priest change didnt fix the noob killing. Just made the game more boring for the player base and I say it bleed off casuals who wanted to bang it our with in the window of their short sessions. Some of the changes they did in the past just made the situation far worse. I think there was far less noob killing back when you could kill risars because people would actually have rep and covet it to be spend on good fights.


The game has not much content, the PvE is impressive for a non instanced world but is boring. The crafting once you know what you are doing is just shallow with fake depth. There is no reason to really leave town and if you are a noob you are so far from a safe place to run while being lost that you are just going to die to any person you come across.



My way for fixing it would be lawless everywhere but towns. Then have guard camps out in the world similar to bandit camps that players can run to for safety. Then they can think about making crimes around towns more heavily punished. Also removed priest for POIs like dungeons and Cave/Jungle camp. The game also needs more reason to fight outside ego and just wanting to fight. But with more casual players being able to jump into the game and PvP the game would do much better.


If Henrik wants to keep casual players then he needs to shorten the PvP gameplay loop for people that want to also live in towns.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

They need to add pker vs pker content. The problem is there are no real pvp objectives right now so it just devolves into pkers going around killing crafters or noobs at graveyards which is fun for noone. Need to add content where pkers can fight other pkers and have fun battles over a reward. I think something like hellgates from AO would be cool but also just pvp hotspots like world chests or bosses that spawn every few hours to fight over would work. I see it as a total win win for everyone. Pkers get to pk and crafters get to craft