Pure Mage VS Pure Footie

[Piet]

Is that why armor does not block mage damage? If Magic wasnt so dog shit, and had actual "Support spells" (Roots, slows, fears, you know crowed control.) besides just damaging and healing, A foot fighter would never be able to kill a mage.

If you add CC you make it so there's no way to fight outnumbered and also change the combat completely to root focus. It's not good and lowers the skill cap a lot.

 

[Piet]

Mages as a support class is not really a viable option. you can see this in data gathered by other games , generally people don't want to be "support" because being "support" is not as fun as being a class which is able to compete 1v1. you can find this data and literature through games like league of legends and World of warcraft , i understand that MO2 is neither of these titles and am glad HOWEVER. the Data remains and is empirical knowledge gathered by much larger sources and demographics. As a player your not really privilege to the collected data by these companies however it is VERRY noticeable through things like League of legends preferred QUE where support players get instant games because of the lack of people wanting to play support roles it is even more noticeable through World of warcraft and there godawful instanced dungeon system where "healers/support" classes are generally 10-20% of the population and not because those people want to be support classes but because they like the class fantasy or their view of what that style of character should be. bottom line is removing the idea of a "support" role in this community in itself would improve the game experience for a large percentage of players.

All that being said. the changes and spells I am proposing would not improve the mage class in a way that would put them at par with that of melee strength classes in melee combat, it is generally an overall improvement however.

for instance.

a mage with these spells would still be at unequal footing toe to toe with a pure strength melee fighter as they cannot wear armor , that's where the risk vs reward mechanic comes in. even if a mage had these spells in order to use them a mage wearing NO armor would only be able to use these spells effectively would have to be toe to toe in melee range which is the last place they would really want to be anyway. the spells only work when character and player skill are utilized fully.

all that being said the game would be much easier to balance as well. IF this change would to be implemented you might even see a reason to lower damage on ecumenical spells and maybe even provide the changes needed to make it so ecumenical spells could be treated the same way as elementalism has been brought to the community with a defensive use of armor vs magic.

These spells are the literal use of Counterplay mechanics/skill and are conducive to competitive play.

That would ruin the pvp. The whole point is to guard the lighter support in your group. Mages make or break a team and if you get rushed and lose your mages you 99% of the time lose the fight. The difference between good peels for mages and good mages that know how to parry and land spells and what spells to use when is what wins fights.

 

[Midas]

That would ruin the pvp. The whole point is to guard the lighter support in your group. Mages make or break a team and if you get rushed and lose your mages you 99% of the time lose the fight. The difference between good peels for mages and good mages that know how to parry and land spells and what spells to use when is what wins fights.

Rock paper scissors meta builds are not conducive to solo content. Mages want to be able to 1v1 pvp and 1v1 pve currently not viable unless you have a pet wich both Pure mages and Footies can have.

did you read the first post about the spells?
if so , how would these spells ruin the pvp?

IMO this would make the pvp and pve FOR MAGES more fun overall , and allow mages to be able to defend themselves when an enemy they cannot escape gets in front of them.

Yes this would agravate alot of pure strength builds. its a give and take and my whole idea is that mages need melee capability. That is the biggest reason for mages wanting staff magic im only providing a large solution.

 

[Piet]

Rock paper scissors meta builds are not conducive to solo content. Mages want to be able to 1v1 pvp and 1v1 pve currently not viable unless you have a pet wich both Pure mages and Footies can have.

did you read the first post about the spells?
if so , how would these spells ruin the pvp?

IMO this would make the pvp and pve FOR MAGES more fun overall , and allow mages to be able to defend themselves when an enemy they cannot escape gets in front of them.

Yes this would agravate alot of pure strength builds. its a give and take and my whole idea is that mages need melee capability. That is the biggest reason for mages wanting staff magic im only providing a large solution.

Sounds like you don't understand how big pvp works. You're clearly pretty new. I have played for like 12 years if you include mo1 and I understand the pvp very well. What you're suggesting won't work.

 

[Weis]

This post inspired me to make a new suggestion that I will bring up during the next mo2 twitch stream. Why not have a Stun effect for blunt weapons that blurs and slows a player? there are a multitude of ways that this can be implimented so that slow footies have a chance to actually kill a dex fighter or dex mage. It can be a low chance crit that would replace weakspot for blunt weapons.

 

[Midas]

This post inspired me to make a new suggestion that I will bring up during the next mo2 twitch stream. Why not have a Stun effect for blunt weapons that blurs and slows a player? there are a multitude of ways that this can be implimented so that slow footies have a chance to actually kill a dex fighter or dex mage. It can be a low chance crit that would replace weakspot for blunt weapons.

Im glad these posts have inspired you to look at things differently. i do believe we will see things like stuns on weapon hits when we get martial skills for weapons.

 

[Elijah]

The fact is using magic is equivalent to tab targeting, where as melee requires more SKILL.

Go play a mage and try to convince yourself that this is true.

Currently there is a large disparity between PURE Mage player (INT based damage) and Pure footies (STR based damage)


The Disparity is the gap of dmg Between melee AND ranged combat.

A pure strength build gains BOTH melee and ranged damage availability based off of Strength both MELEE and RANGED damage is increased by a LARGE amount due to the strength stat alone.

Comparing that to a pure intelligence build.

Intelligence gains OK damage for RANGED only , you could argue by saying "what about dex mages?!" to which i would say that is not a pure mage , that's a hybrid.
(yes i said OK damage because a mage can be hit for well over 140 damage by melee , there's no need to get into the "Well you cant block ecumenical" argument a mage cant block while casting either.)


My solution to fix this disparity would be to making a SECONDARY skill and 2 SPELLs which has the ECUMENICAL MAGIC SCHOOL as its parent and are in the ECUMENICAL spell category.

Requiring you to have 100 ecumenical Skill to begin leveling and to train it to 100.
Requiring Unarmed Brawling skill as parent as well.

(This Removes the necessity for a character that has no use for strength to be forced to take is for low damage melee weapons , Allowing them to do melee dmg based off of INT/PSYCH). (must not use dexterity as damage amplification)

2 spells which would be in the spell book when purchased off the NPC , this is important because we want everyone to be able to farm as a pure mage a be able to feel they have fit the role of mage as they see it. (this is one of the reasons people want staff magic so badly and i think would be similar but based off maces)
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Spell #1
-User casts Spell on self (ONLY SELFCAST)
-Spell Presents as Duration buff Similar to that of Magic Reflect (Cannot be removed by purify) , every time a player swings and connects with either a hit or a parry a small -amount of mana is used Mana is gained off a successful riposte and has possibility to weakspot (ONLY WHEN RIPOSTE)
-Spell increase melee damage based off of a calculation of INT/PSY/pierce/blunt
-Spell Has moderate to high damage as it will need to have 100 in skill to be fully efficient similar to Mounted Magery and mounted combat.
-should use ecumenical reagents that are on the higher end of cost like Cuprum and Coal.

It is my belief that this spell will allow people who wish to play with a pure mage character fantasy able to do so without having to develop the STAFF MAGIC school at this time and WILL deliver more fluid gameplay to those mages who wish to be able to Utilize combat maneuvering which is currently only the case while in combat mode resulting in pure mages who are also able to utilize the 10% movement speed buff from this skill.

Currently a hybrid mage has to arm and rearm weapon to cast effectively having to stay out of combat mode while trying to kite and cast spells. you will often see mages arm a dagger just to get the extra movement speed which is counter intuitive and makes mage combat feel "Clunky". with the recent improvement to walking while casting I believe this would go a LONG way to improve player experience.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Spell #2
-User Casts Spell On Self (ONLY SELFCAST)
-Spell Presents as Duration buff Similar to that of magic Reflect (Cannot be removed by purify) , every time a player makes a successful parry a small amount of mana is restored. IF a player successfully parries a RIPOSTE the damage is mitigated to the casting player and a small to moderate percentage of that Melee Damage is reflected back to the enemy. based off of INT/PSY/Blocking Skill
-Spell Mitigates Melee Damage similar to a conventional shield however its use is mana based and drains mana while held the same as a normal shield would to stamina.
-Spell needs to be reliant on unarmed blocking /Blocking /Ecumenical skill parent.
-Should use higher end reagents to cast.

It is my belief that this will make for a more fluid combat scenario in all situations and increase the fluidity for PURE MAGE combat drastically. It is based off Risk/Reward as a mage with not enough mana regeneration due to high armor weight would fail to use this properly. therefore a mage has to have a high level of risk to use this spell efficiently and will most likely be used as a last resort instead of being forced to pull out a dagger or noob sword which does nothing for a PURE MAGE.

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Bump.

This feels very well thought out, and like it would fix a lot of the misery that comes with being a mage without dramatically changing the way the game is played. Maybe it will also help me sell more ganoid/bloodsilk sets. Mana shield, alone, would give mages just a tiny bit more survivability that is needed. Also, the idea of a melee mage just sounds super fun and rewarding for the people that didn't choose to go full elementalism. I would have a hard time picking up either of these skills, though, because I'm one of the people that decided to go full ele QQ

 

[Elijah]

This post inspired me to make a new suggestion that I will bring up during the next mo2 twitch stream. Why not have a Stun effect for blunt weapons that blurs and slows a player? there are a multitude of ways that this can be implimented so that slow footies have a chance to actually kill a dex fighter or dex mage. It can be a low chance crit that would replace weakspot for blunt weapons.

Oooo as much as I'd hate this as a dex mage... It does sound like it would be a good mechanic, and also makes sense. You don't take a hammer to the head and maintain full cognitive function. We need MORE mechanics overall. Things that actually make fights skill based. As is, if you have any experience in games like chiv or mordhau, the melee feels brainless and slow as hell. Things like this that change fights, but everyone has access to and has to consider, would massively improve QOL.

 

[Elijah]

Rock paper scissors meta builds are not conducive to solo content. Mages want to be able to 1v1 pvp and 1v1 pve currently not viable unless you have a pet wich both Pure mages and Footies can have.

did you read the first post about the spells?
if so , how would these spells ruin the pvp?

IMO this would make the pvp and pve FOR MAGES more fun overall , and allow mages to be able to defend themselves when an enemy they cannot escape gets in front of them.

Yes this would agravate alot of pure strength builds. its a give and take and my whole idea is that mages need melee capability. That is the biggest reason for mages wanting staff magic im only providing a large solution.

Rock, paper, scissors could possibly work. Problem is that, as is, its more 'rock, rock, scissors' if you're a mage. You're pretty much entirely forced into being a half-ass support with occasional damage output that doesn't even come close to comparing to archery or melee. The only place that mages really shine is in the water because you take away melee ability to hold W and win. They can still beat you if they have swimming, and more than two brain cells, but watermage is very strong.

Maybe having ele walls and other ele stuff will help, but I don't think that it will actually solve the problems that mages are dealing with. More tools, but not the ones that are needed to be viable in any kind of solo capacity.

 

[ElPerro]

Is that why armor does not block mage damage? If Magic wasnt so dog shit, and had actual "Support spells" (Roots, slows, fears, you know crowed control.) besides just damaging and healing, A foot fighter would never be able to kill a mage.

That kind of CC would only help zergs. Maybe they should implement some escape spells like teleport or invisibility

 

[Midas]

Rock, paper, scissors could possibly work. Problem is that, as is, its more 'rock, rock, scissors' if you're a mage. You're pretty much entirely forced into being a half-ass support with occasional damage output that doesn't even come close to comparing to archery or melee. The only place that mages really shine is in the water because you take away melee ability to hold W and win. They can still beat you if they have swimming, and more than two brain cells, but watermage is very strong.

Maybe having ele walls and other ele stuff will help, but I don't think that it will actually solve the problems that mages are dealing with. More tools, but not the ones that are needed to be viable in any kind of solo capacity.

exactly the issue that im trying to solve is the solo capacity. mages thought necro would help with solo , and it kinda did if you dont mind being a "necromancer charecter fantasy" but that certainly not why i play a mage. i dont wanto feel pigeon holed into having to command pets around especially with the way they are balanced.

 

[Midas]

That kind of CC would only help zergs. Maybe they should implement some escape spells like teleport or invisibility

im dont think CC is a good option for the game as it is now. It may be better balanced when footies have some CC abilities too though wich i expect to see some kind of cc when the martial skill/weapon skill abilities come through the door.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

That kind of CC would only help zergs. Maybe they should implement some escape spells like teleport or invisibility

Yeah you know actual mage stuff. Yeah that would be great!

 

[Elijah]

im dont think CC is a good option for the game as it is now. It may be better balanced when footies have some CC abilities too though wich i expect to see some kind of cc when the martial skill/weapon skill abilities come through the door.

That gravity well that Henrik showed off on stream... I do wonder what it does... Could be great for mages o:

 

[Midas]

Go play a mage and try to convince yourself that thi

Bump.

This feels very well thought out, and like it would fix a lot of the misery that comes with being a mage without dramatically changing the way the game is played. Maybe it will also help me sell more ganoid/bloodsilk sets. Mana shield, alone, would give mages just a tiny bit more survivability that is needed. Also, the idea of a melee mage just sounds super fun and rewarding for the people that didn't choose to go full elementalism. I would have a hard time picking up either of these skills, though, because I'm one of the people that decided to go full ele QQ

The mana shield would only be used when blocking while unarmed and would need full player skill utilization to use , like you said adds alot without changing the structure of the game.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

If you add CC you make it so there's no way to fight outnumbered and also change the combat completely to root focus. It's not good and lowers the skill cap a lot.

You know what els lowers skill cap. Swinging a steel sword not even full charge and doing 68 damage to a mage. that can not even run bc armor does not slow down foot fighters. How ever armor slows down animals that are stronger then any clade you can pick. Also with the stream yesterday, we see player weight going to take effect on how fast pets move, along with player armor, pet armor and bags. But yet the refuse to make armor slow down players. Its so stupid.
If they made armor slow you down there would be a reason to wear light armor and still be effective, They could even make it so if you have light armor on the roots dont last as long as they would with plate armor.
There is so much depth that can be put into this game, Hopefully once UE5 is out they can focus on creating more depth to combat besides, Just FF taking Merc plate, and mages taking horned scales, with a dagger.

 

[Piet]

You know what els lowers skill cap. Swinging a steel sword not even full charge and doing 68 damage to a mage. that can not even run bc armor does not slow down foot fighters. How ever armor slows down animals that are stronger then any clade you can pick. Also with the stream yesterday, we see player weight going to take effect on how fast pets move, along with player armor, pet armor and bags. But yet the refuse to make armor slow down players. Its so stupid.
If they made armor slow you down there would be a reason to wear light armor and still be effective, They could even make it so if you have light armor on the roots dont last as long as they would with plate armor.
There is so much depth that can be put into this game, Hopefully once UE5 is out they can focus on creating more depth to combat besides, Just FF taking Merc plate, and mages taking horned scales, with a dagger.

Skill issue. Parry that swing so it does no damage as your fighters peel for you. Speed is king. If armor slowed no one would use the good armor that is useless against our magic btw. I played mage for over 10 years now. This isn't an issue in a group sounds like you're trying to solo and want to 1v1 as a support class.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

Skill issue. Parry that swing so it does no damage as your fighters peel for you. Speed is king. If armor slowed no one would use the good armor that is useless against our magic btw. I played mage for over 10 years now. This isn't an issue in a group sounds like you're trying to solo and want to 1v1 as a support class.

No people would still use heavy armor, Everything is situational. I think calling any class a support class is dumb. Because everything supports everything.
Mages should have more mobility then a foot fighter in 15kg+ armor, and if you dont think so then keep playing as a beta support mage.
And I will keep playing as a Mage that kills and thrills. Stay in the back line chump.

 

[Midas]

Skill issue. Parry that swing so it does no damage as your fighters peel for you. Speed is king. If armor slowed no one would use the good armor that is useless against our magic btw. I played mage for over 10 years now. This isn't an issue in a group sounds like you're trying to solo and want to 1v1 as a support class.

This is about ways to improve on PvP for solo FULL mage int builds equiping a dagger to do nothing while your constantly hacked at isnt an option anyone wants. what a coincidence a mages armor does nothing against a full foot fighter , but i digress. this is about making the full int mage playstyle possible it currently is not a valid way to farm mobs or pvp solo.

 

[Piet]

This is about ways to improve on PvP for solo FULL mage int builds equiping a dagger to do nothing while your constantly hacked at isnt an option anyone wants. what a coincidence a mages armor does nothing against a full foot fighter , but i digress. this is about making the full int mage playstyle possible it currently is not a valid way to farm mobs or pvp solo.

Game isn't balanced around solo play but on top of that if you're a hybrid dagger build and you lose a 1v1 that's still a skill issue.