Poison Arrows, Multi Shot and other Archery skills? To Buff Archery as a more viable combat option for MO2

[PoisonArrows]

Veteran player here giving some input on archery. In Mortal Online1 it always seemed as though Archery was really just the weakest combat style available. It was almost like the Poor Mans Magic. If you couldn't afford to use magic, you used archery or you were just a fool who fell for a noob trap. Only reason to be a archer was hunting Crickets in Sard Desert for Gold or Golden Danburru or whatever their name was. Or killing Thorax... You did some decent damage if you met all the requirements such as Weakspot on the head, against a opponent not using Draconic Armor. But the skill cap for aiming a bow on a horse while the damn arrow thing moves back and forth.... and getting so low damage compared to the damage of a mage who ignores Armor completely just never made any sense. Add onto the fact that a foot archer still uses stamina to run and kite and shoot arrows and suddenly you are met with the reality that, that too is not a good play style.. You run out of stamina faster while running and shooting. And now a Foot Fighter Man with sword catches up and carves your face up like a turkey on thanksgiving.



Now you can dispute these points or try to argue against them... But it still stands that pretty much any counter argument you say still fails.. As a Mage can do the same hit and run strategy and still deal more damage and easier then you as the Archer can. Even if you don't agree with my points, i feel strongly that archers should be able to do more then just shoot a arrow lol.


My Suggestion: Archer Skills for increased damage ie: Poison Arrows lv100 add a Damage over time effect to each arrow for 20 damage over 5 seconds. Poison refreshes with each new arrow. And Stacks with lower damage ie: 1st Arrow 20 damage over 5 secs, 2nd arrow stacks with the 1st but only adds a extra 10 damage over 5 seconds and 3rd arrow 5 damage over 5 seconds ect.. So on and so on. (Still need to have poison arrows to use this skill.. Each Arrow cost +5% more stamina) Multi-Shot lv100 Shoot 2 arrows at once First shot dealing 100% and second shot dealing 75% damage. lv100 in this skill makes 1st arrow deal 150% damage and 2nd shot dealing 100% damage. (Drains a extra 15% stamina to use) Long Shot lv100 Shoot a Arrow the Longer you pull the bow back the further the arrow flies. At 25% stamina Drain, +100% damage, at 50% stamina Drain +200% damage, at 75% stamina drain +300% damage, at 100% of your stamina you deal +400% damage to target. Increase arrow range by 2x at full stamina drain. Hawk Eye Passive skill: See Further ahead adding a snipe option to archers. This would work the same way adding a scope to a gun would. +25% damage to archers who fire arrows in Hawk Eye scope mode. Fire Arrows: Similar to Poison Arrows with 1 main difference. More Burst Damage, Less Damage over time. Fire Arrows lv100 skill, Cost +10% more stamina Add 50 damage over 5 seconds 2nd fire arrows do not stack the effect and must wait 5 seconds before another fire arrow can be used.


This is just a Rough Template of Ideas. The damage and effects aren't set in stone. It's just things i thought of. I don't want this game to Ever turn into a World Of Warcraft Cooldown spell rotation type of game either. So adding the extra stamina drain prevents spam where as adding cool downs would just feel like adding a ton of burst once u are off cool downs... Then that feels like World of warcraft no thx lol.



Bow Crafting: In Mortal Online1 there was only a few Bows players used... This was the same with the shields and it is a pity we didn't have more options. I would be more then happy if we could make Bows out of Metal for example and it actually be good. Example a Ogh Bow would deal Ogh damage.


Arrow types? Shark Tooth Arrow? Crocodile Tooth Arrow? Oghnium and Cronite arrows? Shark Fin for the Feather instead of a feather?? Serrated Arrow tips to add bleed damage?


CROSSBOWS???? More damage then Bows but less dps?

Repeater Crossbows? Less burst damage then Crossbow but more dps then normal bows.

Hand Cannon? Think about it

Blow Dart Gun???

 

[Rhias]

When was the last time you played MO1?
With skills that reduce stamina drain by 50% on bows?
And those almost no stam bows...
I think death cause no. 1 of me in MO1 was getting stickyed down by a foot archer...

And that argument with MA vs Mage? The equal to a MA would be a Mounted fat mage. Mounted mages require 2x the cast time. You really think that the DPS of a MA is worse than a fat mage? Fat mage got huge burst, and also probably more DPS on Ogh. But on medium tier armor MA dps is higher...

Didn't read through your whole post. Regardless I think poison arrows are a good idea. But in a way that they consume poison-potion. That way you could integrate the alchemy system...
And fletchery is also a good idea.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Read the whole thing i got some cool ideas, i want to see what other people think about my ideas. I actually got back on today after taking a few months off. That's what i mean though Archer skills are literally just Stamina drain reduction the only increase in damage is that Headshot weakspot one. If you are getting stickyed down by a foot archer it's probably the build they are running, pretty much any Elf character just out runs anyone else. But if 2 players are same speed i just don't see how it's possible a foot archer can beat a warrior cuz you gotta sit and aim your shot and fire and then run again that takes like 2 seconds to do so no matter what foot fighter will catch up. I am making the comparison vs Warrior because i actually don't like Warrior i think the entire play style depends mainly on Parrying Skill or Foot speed i can't remember what the meta for speed is right off top of my head but something like if you have less speed you kinda just are gimped and can't really catch other players. I personally like Mage or Tamer for fighting but i think Archery needs more damage or other skills.


Ma vs Mage.. There is so much going for the mage with so many different skills where as the bow guy... That's all he is a bow guy lol. I seen entire guild fights play out between people in full Ogh foot fighters with just a ton of healers. They know a Bow can't ever do anything to them when they wear Ogh or cronite or even tung steel lol. They might take 10 damage and the mages just heal them up. Archers don't offer anything except damage. But all you can do is helplessly tickle players in heavier armor.

 

[PoisonArrows]

When was the last time you played MO1?
With skills that reduce stamina drain by 50% on bows?
And those almost no stam bows...
I think death cause no. 1 of me in MO1 was getting stickyed down by a foot archer...

And that argument with MA vs Mage? The equal to a MA would be a Mounted fat mage. Mounted mages require 2x the cast time. You really think that the DPS of a MA is worse than a fat mage? Fat mage got huge burst, and also probably more DPS on Ogh. But on medium tier armor MA dps is higher...

Didn't read through your whole post. Regardless I think poison arrows are a good idea. But in a way that they consume poison-potion. That way you could integrate the alchemy system...
And fletchery is also a good idea.

What are your thoughts on Crossbows or Other ranged weapons? Also do you think Archer should be able to get better damage skills since they can't really do anything vs ogh and cronite.

 

[Rhias]

What are your thoughts on Crossbows or Other ranged weapons? Also do you think Archer should be able to get better damage skills since they can't really do anything vs ogh and cronite.

As far as I know throwing weapons are planned.
Crossbows are a great idea. But SV should be careful with the balance.
It would make foot fighters obsolete when you could simply 2 shot foot fighters in medium armor, before they can even reach you. Or mages, that get simply 2 shot by any fighter that carries a crossbow as secondary weapon...

But in general it is a good idea to add additional skills for all fighting styles, to enable further specialization.

 

[Rhias]

...
But if 2 players are same speed i just don't see how it's possible a foot archer can beat a warrior cuz you gotta sit and aim your shot and fire and then run again that takes like 2 seconds to do so no matter what foot fighter will catch up. I am making the comparison vs Warrior because i actually don't like Warrior i think the entire play style depends mainly on Parrying Skill or Foot speed i can't remember what the meta for speed is right off top of my head but something like if you have less speed you kinda just are gimped and can't really catch other players.
...

I think of archer more as a support class. It shouldn't win vs a warrior in a 1 vs 1. Especially not in a close combat fight...

 

[Xunila]

I'm using mounted archery since release of MO1 and it has been very nice all the time in PvE. In PvP the damage went down very much and I agree to @PoisonArrows there both fletchery and poison is needed for MO2! With fletchery we could craft arrows making real damage against steel or better armor while the current arrows are just scratching the opponent. And with poisoned arrows the poison part of alchemy could finally be used. Fire arrows can be used fo far against buildings but could be good e.g. against simple armor and make fire damage over time.

 

[Valoran]

Archers have always been viable in MO1, and were incredibly deadly if used correctly.

The standard foot warrior had Archery, and the ability to sprint while shooting 25 longbow arrows non stop provided you're using the correct bow, which is enough to outright kill anyone who isnt wearing tungsteel or oghmium.

Mounted archers always win against a mounted mage in a 1v1 unless the archer isn't experienced, as getting weakspots for 80 damage as a properly specialised mounted archer is quite easy.

Pure Archery should never be a viable option on foot as it doesn't make any sense at all. Bows shouldn't be viable in melee combat.
(Even though they currently are in MO1 if you're a good archer)


As far as your actual suggestions go, most of them are quite "gamey" and I don't think they fit here.

There's no reason holding back a drawn arrow would make it fly faster or do more damage.
(Yes I am aware this is how the melee weapons work already, but if we can avoid adding silly illogical systems wherever possible we should.)

Poison arrows make sense, although poison really is something that needs to be either incredibly hard to make, or some other very high barrier to entry as if it's too easy to obtain it will just become another thing that everyone needs to have at all times or they're at a severe disadvantage.

 

[Eldrath]

I think crossbows might be just as hard to balance as poison on weapons.

I´d rather have them look into bow crafting again so we can have true variety with sniper bows for example. Adding another crafting system for crossbows just for looks seems unnecessary.

If you introduce poison it should be a skill you have to use in combat while standing still. Then it could be DOT or a corrupt-like effect. No major damage increase. Some interaction with different armor types would be cool as well. If it is introduced it should tie into ALL the crafting systems rather than being a fun gimmick.

 

[FreeHorses]

i feel strongly that archers should be able to do more then just shoot a arrow lol.

But for real tho.
You shoot me 1 time on my fat mage and I have a 50% chance to stop casting.
You dont even have to hit me, you can hit the giant hit box that is my horse and still cancel my cast.
MO1 has always had a rock paper scissors combat balance when it came to mounteds.

MMages can dismount MC and hit them hard with magic.
MArchers can shoot MMages cancelling casts and damage them hard through their armor.
MC's can dismount MA's and not worry so much about arrows because of their armors.

This system carries over to foot fighting also.

I think what you really want is bows to fill all roles in every fight.
You want bows to do "ogh" damage, you want bows to poison, you want bows to lower stam.
Bows are not meant to do anything you are suggesting.
bows are purely meant to kill people that are running, pegging people that are coming at you, and shooting mages standing still.

having said all this tho, fetching would be cool.

 

[Neftan]

Neftan's "Posion and Drug Effects" Suggestion

Poison and Alcohol, as well as Nahuat and other implied drugs, were present in MO1. However, they had no effects, not even visually. My suggestions here would make them more advanced and important. However, as an alternative to these suggestion, I would like to see at the very minimum - VISUAL...

mortalonline2.com

 

[PoisonArrows]

Archers have always been viable in MO1, and were incredibly deadly if used correctly.

The standard foot warrior had Archery, and the ability to sprint while shooting 25 longbow arrows non stop provided you're using the correct bow, which is enough to outright kill anyone who isnt wearing tungsteel or oghmium.

Mounted archers always win against a mounted mage in a 1v1 unless the archer isn't experienced, as getting weakspots for 80 damage as a properly specialised mounted archer is quite easy.

Pure Archery should never be a viable option on foot as it doesn't make any sense at all. Bows shouldn't be viable in melee combat.
(Even though they currently are in MO1 if you're a good archer)


As far as your actual suggestions go, most of them are quite "gamey" and I don't think they fit here.

There's no reason holding back a drawn arrow would make it fly faster or do more damage.
(Yes I am aware this is how the melee weapons work already, but if we can avoid adding silly illogical systems wherever possible we should.)

Poison arrows make sense, although poison really is something that needs to be either incredibly hard to make, or some other very high barrier to entry as if it's too easy to obtain it will just become another thing that everyone needs to have at all times or they're at a severe disadvantage.

Why should Pure Archery on foot never be a viable option in a "SandBox Hardcore Full loot pvp game"? And What gameplay reasons should a Bow not deal more damage from holding down the button? It could be a skill something as simple as "Charge Shot"...

 

[PoisonArrows]

View attachment 235


But for real tho.
You shoot me 1 time on my fat mage and I have a 50% chance to stop casting.
You dont even have to hit me, you can hit the giant hit box that is my horse and still cancel my cast.
MO1 has always had a rock paper scissors combat balance when it came to mounteds.

MMages can dismount MC and hit them hard with magic.
MArchers can shoot MMages cancelling casts and damage them hard through their armor.
MC's can dismount MA's and not worry so much about arrows because of their armors.

This system carries over to foot fighting also.

I think what you really want is bows to fill all roles in every fight.
You want bows to do "ogh" damage, you want bows to poison, you want bows to lower stam.
Bows are not meant to do anything you are suggesting.
bows are purely meant to kill people that are running, pegging people that are coming at you, and shooting mages standing still.

having said all this tho, fetching would be cool.

Honestly the whole point of my post was to add some "Suggestions" to how to make the archer class more fun. My ideas were not set in stone just suggestions on things i thought would be good. Mainly Double Shot or Poison Arrows. Or the ability to craft different bows. "Ogh Bows was a example" Since all we had in the old game was Dense Crepite bows basically. Crossbows and Handcannon and Repeater Crossbows would all be fun too. I can kill anyone as my Mage tbh on foot or Mounted. Mage with dominator skills is my favorite class Just minotaur with heals and magic and gg even me vs 3 ppl i still usually won. But i never got that same feeling of Power on foot as a Archer i might land 2 or 3 shots before enemy closes distance. And i might total around 60 or so damage. I have no clue where one guy got the idea of doing 80 damage to a mage as a archer lmao. And Mounted archers were even weaker but could run around i get that lol. But the point i am making here is No they can't deal 80 damage and they can't compete with a mage or foot fighter when all 3 classes are decked out in Ogh armor for example the archer Clearly 100% deals the least amount of damage. So i thought some fun ideas would make Archer better.

 

[Valoran]

Why should Pure Archery on foot never be a viable option in a "SandBox Hardcore Full loot pvp game"? And What gameplay reasons should a Bow not deal more damage from holding down the button? It could be a skill something as simple as "Charge Shot"...

Because it doesn't make any logical sense for it to be viable against a melee fighter.

You have no way of defending yourself and a very slow attack speed, against an opponent using a weapon that was actually designed to be used at close range.

Sprinting around someone flinging arrows at them was already way too viable in MO1, I know because I used to do it.

 

[barcode]

bowery could have definitely used some love in mo1. i expected there to be a 'sweet spot' in the belly/back ratio of a bow that would give better results but it was just a linear transition. this results in just having the best compressive strength belly and best tensile strength back used for all bows and set the slider for how much strength you got. There should have been more to it where the ratio 'sweet spot' would make different combinations best at different strength points, or at least something more engaging than what there is now for bowery.

adding poison to arrows would be a fine addition as well as to melee weapons. different weapons / arrow types should have a different affinity for delivering poison as well.

-barcode

 

[PoisonArrows]

bowery could have definitely used some love in mo1. i expected there to be a 'sweet spot' in the belly/back ratio of a bow that would give better results but it was just a linear transition. this results in just having the best compressive strength belly and best tensile strength back used for all bows and set the slider for how much strength you got. There should have been more to it where the ratio 'sweet spot' would make different combinations best at different strength points, or at least something more engaging than what there is now for bowery.

adding poison to arrows would be a fine addition as well as to melee weapons. different weapons / arrow types should have a different affinity for delivering poison as well.

-barcode

Your thoughts on a skill like Double shot? And serrated arrows for bleed damage?

 

[PoisonArrows]

Because it doesn't make any logical sense for it to be viable against a melee fighter.

You have no way of defending yourself and a very slow attack speed, against an opponent using a weapon that was actually designed to be used at close range.

Sprinting around someone flinging arrows at them was already way too viable in MO1, I know because I used to do it.

But that build would be like naked or light armor on a Elf dex character. Against a Huegar or blain wearing heavy armor that you know is gonna be slow af. I wouldn't exactly say it's viable. More niche then anything. What i was saying was Archers should have more skills to deal damage. Like Double Shot,poison arrows or anything. There really is a lot of ideas an things a archer can have to deal damage. I agree a archer in melee shouldn't win vs a melee xD lol. But do u agree archer should have something more then that headshot sweetspot skill?

 

[barcode]

Your thoughts on a skill like Double shot? And serrated arrows for bleed damage?

currently theres no concept of bleed damage. i'm not really against it as a concept so long as theres ways to stop/mitigate the bleed. use a bandage maybe it removes the bleed effect or something, maybe it needs an alchemy mat like staunching powder, maybe a spell could remove it as well.

bleed could also be added to some melee weapons, either as part of the weapon blade type or maybe as an enhancement you can put on any weapon. no reason to limit it to arrows. the damage on the bleed needs to be balanced as well, maybe using a bleeding weapon reduces the direct damage it does in favor of the bleed effect, or something like that.

double shot seems a silly idea. MO is created as a low fantasy universe and bows are not exactly shotguns so firing multiple arrows on a single draw doesnt fit at all. should there be a skill like the old overhead strike that .. i dunno lets you overdraw the bow and make one shot hit harder or something at the cost of bow durability and stamina? maybe you also have to stand still while doing so and has a cooldown period or other different penalties, it really all depends on balance but i'm not against there being 'active' bow skills, just it needs to fit the theme and be balanced.

-barcode