Please lock Keeps until siege is in the game.

Title

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 75.0%
  • No

    Votes: 9 18.8%
  • results

    Votes: 3 6.3%

  • Total voters
    48

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
2,468
1,447
113
When the game comes out there will be no way to siege probably for a month at the minimum.
simple lock being able to build keeps until the siege patch is in.

This will have the added benefit of allowing empire guilds to enjoy the early game instead of rushing non stop to build their keeps and ignoring all other content.
 

KermyWormy

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
270
288
63
California
I don't see why this matters, if sieging isn't in neither are the other actual TC functions, so these keeps are not giving the owners much benefits anyway, unless I'm missing something.
 

Jackdstripper

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2021
1,200
1,064
113
I don't see why this matters, if sieging isn't in neither are the other actual TC functions, so these keeps are not giving the owners much benefits anyway, unless I'm missing something.

the benefits are that the first guild to claim the spot will have total immunity while building the keep and all other utility structures around and inside the keep courtyard. All they have to do is claim it and nobody else can touch it. By the time sieging weapons come out, most guild will have a fully built and stocked out keep that will be much mich harder to siege, as opposed to during the construction of it.

besically anyone that comes after the first day at launch will not have any of the prime keep spots ( possibly none ) and will have to watch helplessly as their enemies fortify the keep with impunity.

i agree with IP that siege weapons should be in game at launch. This goes for houses as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jatix

LordMega

Active member
Dec 2, 2020
177
204
43
besically anyone that comes after the first day at launch will not have any of the prime keep spots ( possibly none ) and will have to watch helplessly as their enemies fortify the keep with impunity.

It's pretty unlikely that any keep spots will be taken in the first couple of days. If I recall correctly, a Tier 1 Keep deed is something like $3-4K gold. It would require an absolutely massive guild with hundreds of online players to amass that type of wealth in that timeframe, and even then it would be a challenge due to the scope of resources required as well as the fact that there are finite resources.

I'm not saying that I prefer a launch without siege weapons, either- I would prefer that they be tested thoroughly before implementation. Given that my guild's keep collapsed into ruins due to a node line glitch (causing thousands of gold in upkeep to be deleted as well; no refunds!), among other bugs that were discovered allowing players to exploit through keep walls etc.. Are we supposed to assume that such an important mechanic as sieging is going to come in working perfectly against all odds?
 

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
1,757
1,358
113
it’s difficult to overstate how bad of an idea it is to add housing of any kind without siege mechanics in place.

I absolutely despise everyone who complained about release without housing for their lack of vision and they will pay dearly for their transgressions.
 
Apr 11, 2021
74
70
18
Gaul'kor
If you allow players to claim the most important assets in the game without a way to attack them, this game will favor larger guilds even more.

You can farm the gold easily from killing Risars.
 

Piet

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
462
284
63
It takes more than a month to be able to read the books about building a keep not to mention getting the gold and mats for it when there's an actual population.
 

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
2,468
1,447
113
It takes more than a month to be able to read the books about building a keep not to mention getting the gold and mats for it when there's an actual population.
You dont need engineering or any skills to build a keep. Just gold to buy the deed and some mats to put into it. It really doesn't take long to get those things.
 

KermyWormy

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
270
288
63
California
Obviously, in a perfect world they'd have all parts of the system in place and ready to go at launch, but they're not going to be able to do that.
There are more benefits to at least have building aspects in place at launch than leaving the whole thing out until it's all done.

Being able to move out away from towns with your group, regardless of size, is going to be pretty important for this game, especially initially, the towns as they are just cannot support the whole player base, at a technical level and in terms of quality of game life.

Building houses and keeps also provide an important goal for groups and individuals to strive for alongside and following skilling up your character and building wealth etc. While it does take time to develop your character and get some resources...it does not take much time, especially if you played the first game, played this beta quite a bit, or are just part of an organized group, and people need to have that next greater goal to work towards else they lose interest, quit, or sometimes just begin to cannibalize the player base because they haven't much else to do.

The freedom this game provides is incredibly important, the freedom to build and destroy, no doubt about it, but they are not exactly equivalent.

There are some here that do not understand that, or just reject it out of hand because "But my Freedoms!!!", but it is more important to the greater player base to be able to go out and build than it is to destroy everything. Both are important long-term though, absolutely.

Again, I don't get the problem with putting in the building before the sieging is ready, and without the whole TC system a rival guild in a keep in a region you want for yourselves or whatever is not game changing because they can't influence that area outside of existing in it.

And furthermore, if you can't build up the current existing keep locations, there is no reason to even be at or near those locations whatsoever, so those parts of the map will just be more empty spaces in the middle of the wilderness with no purpose, which this game currently has an overabundance of if you haven't been paying attention.

At least this way, even if you can't siege it down on day 1 and make grown men cry, you can still go there and find PvP because people will actually live there, meaning players coming and going and building and developing near those locations.

To say that a great nothingness is better than having large amounts of players moving out and developing and inhabiting all the open and empty spaces on the map, only because you personally can't immediately destroy them, is probably one of the dumber arguments I've seen made on these forums, and there's been a lot of dumb arguments and suggestions made here lets be real.

In the end, and this is just my opinion obviously, this comes across as certain people realizing someone else is going to get something they want before they do, and mommy always told them they were a very special little boy who gets to have everything he wants at all times, society be damned....and they can't abide it, and so they go out and scream about the sky falling in a sweat induced hyperbolic rant, but the sky isn't falling, and overstating your case won't make it so.

Both of the arguments made on both sides are wrong tho. The larger clans will claim the keeps fairly quickly, thinking they won't is weird to me...more people = more gold and resources collectively, that's pretty basic, but it obviously won't be as fast as it was in the beta because everyone will start from scratch, more than half the clans that currently hold keeps won't have them again after launch I don't think.

The real thing we should all be worrying about is that once sieging is in game that it won't be an option for all. Early on in MO Siege equipment plans and the boulders and ammunition needed for them were available on vendors in towns. This made it so that anyone with enough resources, numbers, and organization could challenge another groups claim, this was good and not imbalanced because if a keep owning clan pissed someone off those players had recourse to do something about it. Later on tho they removed those vendors and made siege only available from the keeps themselves, which meant that those who held keeps controlled access to siege, and so out of self interest and worry about being sieged themselves, those clans would nearly never sell siege to that new up and coming group who had the numbers, the energy, the gold, and the desire stir things up. They were told to go gather boulders off the ground....very few had the determination to do that obviously, and it sucked.

Eventually things evolved and with the later incarnations of TC you could build a stone cutter for boulders...but this came long after the previous system created utterly boring stagnation on the server. The question then becomes which type of system are we getting? Most likely more in line with later TC, but whatever the case they hopefully don't lock sieging ability behind some arbitrary wall that locks the underdogs out of that aspect of the game.
 
Last edited:

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
1,757
1,358
113
Again, I don't get the problem with putting in the building before the sieging is ready, and without the whole TC system a rival guild in a keep in a region you want for yourselves or whatever is not game changing because they can't influence that area outside of existing in it.
Just look at Fab Gy. If you still don't get it then we're so far apart that there just isn't anything for us to discuss.
 

Fargus

Member
Oct 17, 2021
61
51
18
You dont need engineering or any skills to build a keep. Just gold to buy the deed and some mats to put into it. It really doesn't take long to get those things.
I wonder if they realize VII farmed everything for a keep in 4 days.
 
D

Deleted member 44

Guest
Koto (insert other shit mega zerg) will have a keep day 1. We need to have sieging day 1 as well.
 

Piet

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
462
284
63
You dont need engineering or any skills to build a keep. Just gold to buy the deed and some mats to put into it. It really doesn't take long to get those things.
If so that needs fixed. We had all the eng so didn't get to actually test if you can build without but you're supposed to need full advanced which is why they weren't really worried about people getting keeps right away since it's time gated by the books.
 

Rorry

Well-known member
May 30, 2020
1,018
531
113
44
Kansas
If so that needs fixed. We had all the eng so didn't get to actually test if you can build without but you're supposed to need full advanced which is why they weren't really worried about people getting keeps right away since it's time gated by the books.
Their new system allows anyone to place a deed, because whoever places it is the owner.

Without the ability to siege there will be no need for a guild to farm all the material for a keep right away, they will just need to get the gold and a few mats so no one will knock it down with hammers, then can farm the rest at their leisure.
 

Jackdstripper

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2021
1,200
1,064
113
A keep is at its most vulnerable when its being constructed. Once its fully built its much harder to siege. To allow guilds to claim and construct a keep with no siege mechanics in place is a massive advantage, especially for large guilds that can farm gold fast and defend the keep spot round the clock while its unclaimed.

to those that say it will take weeks to make enough gold to buy a keep deed, you are clueless. Keeps will go up with in days. Guilds will have all their players farming everything in sight 24/7 in the race claim their keep spot. Some guilds will have hundreds of players at launch.

coalitions have already been made soley to secure keep spots. The biggest guilds will help their friendly/alt guilds farm and secure their keep spots. You will see some massive nutcups alliances while people claim keeps.

and everyone else will have to just watch because without siege equipment once the spot is claimed there is nothing you can do.
 
Last edited:

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
2,468
1,447
113
We had one dude PvE 7k gold in like a week thinking it was 12k for t1 keep deep lol.
A couple of people can certainly get enough resources to place a keep with in days.

Our keep went down due to a bug that was fixed like the next day in a hot patch but on release as soon as its placed and you have like a stack of each in it then its staying.