Please limit guild size. Infinite player count is unfair to War Decs.

[PoisonArrows]

Reasons it needs changed down below listed

1.) Every Noob Counts, and it doesn't allow you to choose who you want more wisely. Oh you were a all Mage Guild before? Now you are a Everyone Guild, Welcome to Mortal, take every Noob you can get or you will lose.


Our Guild the Beast Masters had a certain Criteria of people we wanted in it. Hardened Murderers and we also like Mages and Tamers Obviously... Quality over Quantity was what we enjoyed even if the battle had us outnumbered, we enjoyed the fight more that way and had the skills to back it up. And People have respected and Feared us for that reason.
But in recent times we have had to bolster our forces with mass recruiting, because our natural enemy the Blue Police Zerg Guilds mainly Koto and Legion have certain areas of the map with tons of players. Too many players, it makes the Odds unbeatable when you are outnumbered 50 to 1.


We have had to Team up with other Criminal Guilds mainly the Miscreants, Now we are known as the BeastCrients because all of us Criminals are tired of being Zerged down by odds that are unbeatable. Today we beat back the Police and Yesterday we did it too.


Reason Number 2.) The Odds Favor The Good Guys and The Biggest Numbers over the Bad Guys. psychological warfare usually wins a Noob over.

Our Enemy keeps growing, day by day. Because what happens is if Noobs see a Large Force of people with the same guild tag they are more willing to Join that group and whenever you are offline the enemy kills your noobs and then tries to recruit them behind your back. They will usually lead with some talk along the lines of "Hey... Why are you with that Scum Bag Criminal Guild? If you Join us, we won't kill you anymore, and we will even protect you, we love New players and want them all protected So join us we have like 1000 players already" The Terrified Coward Noob, already pooping their pants will complain on help chat... "Wait.. I'm being targeted because I am in a Criminal Guild? Omg Please Help me, don't kill me, I'll join you Koto/Legion I swear it, just please don't beat me anymore, Daddy Please Don't use the Belt, I'll be a Good Boy" Before they even get a taste of the game, and can be brainwashed to become one of us, the police come and turn them into a Law-abiding Citizen with promises of protection. SMH: The Sad thing about these noobs is we make a extra effort to Gut them like Fish because we simply can't tolerate a traitor's existence.

Reason 3.) Where's the Fun in it? 1000 vs 20 is fun? How many people will even stick around for this? This is marketed as a Pvp Game. Might as well call it Koto and allies Vs Legion and allies. That would make more sense.

Now before you go getting a Tattoo of "Koto/Legion Zerg For Life" on your face that you will regret. Please Listen to me first, because what I am going to say will make a Lot of sense. You have a Full Loot PvP game you are playing. Presumably part of what drawed you in was the aspect of Full Loot. But these Blue Guilds like to sit in the bank. Because they are Bored! Because when you have no one to fight the game becomes Boring! These Guys have made it their mission to Patrol the game to stop all criminal activity. That means the only Pvp you will be getting is 1 arrow out of 50 arrows from your whole force to the odd random Criminal you might see on rare occasion. Where is the fun in that? Where was the Pvp? Did you kill the enemy or was it one of your 500 buddies? Who got the Loot? Did you get the Head? The Carcass? Maybe a Finger? Who got my Armor? Someone is wearing my Steel Right Arm Piece, another Noob the Legs. GG I hope you enjoyed that.

GamePlay Criticism related to Zerg Guilds Vs Smaller Guilds
Skill Based Gameplay, Doesn't exist if you are Mounted and have 1000 people vs a dozen Foot Fighters. Mounted on Mounted Combat Doesn't Exist because Mount isn't a good way to Fight other Mounts when you are Greatly Outnumbered!


The Game has a Overall advantage to Mounted Players, Tamers for all the complaining people do about Pets on Forums are not OP, you people who complain about them either don't pvp or are behind the times. People love to Reference White Bears and DeathKnight.. None of that garbage is good because like I have been saying from the beginning Mounteds Counter Pets. Fast Forward to Current Day in Mortal and every one of those guilds I named off is Mounted.... What Happens when 50 mounteds attack a handful of Foot Fighters? The Mounteds Win, you gotta work hard to Land Shots on them lmao and they just run away and Heal because of their TriBrid Build. You can't out damage them with arrows, your only chance is to Knock one person down. But you can't dismount unless your opponent makes a Mistake it's impossible. If you get out of position and run to them and get baited, you will eat 100 arrows and die. With all that said, Foot Fighter is the best way to handle a Mounted Zerg, because you can use your terrain to force the mounteds to dismount and fight you, because they can't shoot you or land enough damage because of trees or Rocks or whatever else and so they must come to you to get kills.


A HISTORY LESSON FROM MORTAL ONLINE1, And How PVP can be gone from the game Explained.

You Might not like us or the rest of the Criminals... But This isn't a PVP game without someone to Fight. If Red Guilds go Extinct because of impossible odds then this won't be a PVP game anymore, it will be Farm simulator with PVE. We are already starting to see the results of other people, our more cowardly brethren folding and joining Blue Guilds to be a part of the Koto/Legion Hive Mind. It won't be long before PvP becomes a Rare occurrence only the Rich of Numbers can afford. In Mortal Online1 many Reds didn't want Sarducca Continent, Because the Game was Dying and the criminals were afraid that PvP would be gone from the game if the Small Playerbase was suddenly split between multiple Continents. Right Now the Game is starting to see the beginning of that already. The Game is only in Beta, it isn't even fully released. But by the time the game is released in January these Big Giant Police Blue Guilds will have probably 1000 players in them. No one will be allowed to Exist or play their way because you won't be able to oppose them anymore. PvP will be gone.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Our Guild the Beast Masters had a certain Criteria of people we wanted in it

Understandable that you want to be choosy, but don't want to be forced into choosing losing vs being selective of skills & personaalities.
I'm not sure how smaller guild sizes for everyone will guarantee that you avoid the losing, though. It might help; ti won't dictate that you can't be the target for more than one group — each no bigger than yours — at a time.

We have had to Team up with other Criminal Guilds mainly the Miscreants, Now we are known as the BeastCrients

Exactly.

...whenever you are offline the enemy kills your noobs and then tries to recruit them behind your back.

That's universal. Any enemy may do that, and most of them will, regardless of size, depending really on their own selection criteria. Cherry-picking.

They will usually lead with some talk along the lines of "Hey... Why are you with that Scum Bag Criminal Guild?"
[SPQR]

That's possibly what your enemies say; I've heard & read "Hey... Why are you with that RP Zerg Guild?" and other epithets applied.

"Join us, we won't kill you anymore..."

Outside of Shadowbane, I think most guilds in PvP games have always promised this in some form. YMMV.

The Terrified Coward Noob, already pooping their pants will complain on help chat... "Wait.. I'm being targeted because I am in a Criminal Guild? Omg Please Help me, don't kill me, I'll join you..."

Given your thoughts on fear of being killed, as found in newbies, I am surprised that you would want to keep anyone who'd sincerely respond that way to threats.
Funny thing, actually, my advice to newbies in a 'Good Guy Guild' on what to do when being threatened in that way was

"Tell 'em 'Do your worst!' and sell your life dearly."​

If they can't do that for you, why do you want them, again? It's an essential question of loyalty, unless of course you're just letting them join your enemies so they can 'turncoat' later... hmmm...

The Sad thing about these noobs is we make a extra effort to Gut them like Fish because we simply can't tolerate a traitor's existence.

I don't suppose you really feel sad at all about it, nor should you feel sad about it.

Where's the Fun in it? 1000 vs 20 is fun?

Perhaps you should look into guerilla warfare. Hit them where they're not. When they zerg after you, dispoerse. When you catch a few alone, go for it. It's not the complete answer, but I've seen it work in some cases.

Guys have made it their mission to Patrol the game to stop all criminal activity.

That's truly no different than patrolling the game to seek whom they may devour and destroy. And it's a sandbox. Should they stop liking things you don't like?
But you just want their groups to be smaller, as if that will change what it is that they do with their time. (It won't caange that, but it might occasionally give you a situational advantage.)

But these Blue Guilds like to sit in the bank.

And patrol.

Our Enemy keeps growing, day by day.

That's really amazing. In Mortal ONline 1, I'd say that (while every guild might get a red from time to time) a lot of players when red and stayted that way and liked it. That's not even counting the other kinds of criminals. It might have been as much as 2/3 of the population being what you might describe as 'the Bad Guys'.

But MO2 is somewhat different. Not different enough that I don't expect half the guilds (or half of some of the guilds) to be in the same broad class as you.

...GG I hope you enjoyed that.

That was a great recruiting pitch.
But have you thought about rebranding as Really, the GOOD Guys R Us, with 'everyone is against us — it wouldn't be fair otherwise'?

What Happens when 50 mounteds attack a handful of Foot Fighters?

I'd like to ask a corollary question: What happens when 50 mounteds attack 50 Foot Fighters?
If the answers are the same, then the problem is more than numerical.
Foot fighers might be really good in tight places, inside structures, even dungeons. It's hard to think of a way to make Mounted enemies seem any less superiour at survival without taking away Mounts.

Maybe you need caltrops.

With all that said, Foot Fighter is the best way to handle a Mounted Zerg, because you can use your terrain to force the mounteds to dismount and fight you, because they can't shoot you or land enough damage because of trees or Rocks or whatever else and so they must come to you to get kills.

Sounds good.

It won't be long before PvP becomes a Rare occurrence only the Rich of Numbers can afford.

If greater numbers are that deadly, then maybe you should bite the bullet and form one huge guild of like-minded ciminals. The only problem, if your playstyle is so direly endangered, will be combining all the names.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Understandable that you want to be choosy, but don't want to be forced into choosing losing vs being selective of skills & personaalities.
I'm not sure how smaller guild sizes for everyone will guarantee that you avoid the losing, though. It might help; ti won't dictate that you can't be the target for more than one group — each no bigger than yours — at a time.

Exactly.

That's universal. Any enemy may do that, and most of them will, regardless of size, depending really on their own selection criteria. Cherry-picking.

That's possibly what your enemies say; I've heard & read "Hey... Why are you with that RP Zerg Guild?" and other epithets applied.

Outside of Shadowbane, I think most guilds in PvP games have always promised this in some form. YMMV.

Given your thoughts on fear of being killed, as found in newbies, I am surprised that you would want to keep anyone who'd sincerely respond that way to threats.
Funny thing, actually, my advice to newbies in a 'Good Guy Guild' on what to do when being threatened in that way was

"Tell 'em 'Do your worst!' and sell your life dearly."​

If they can't do that for you, why do you want them, again? It's an essential question of loyalty, unless of course you're just letting them join your enemies so they can 'turncoat' later... hmmm...

I don't suppose you really feel sad at all about it, nor should you feel sad about it.

Perhaps you should look into guerilla warfare. Hit them where they're not. When they zerg after you, dispoerse. When you catch a few alone, go for it. It's not the complete answer, but I've seen it work in some cases.

That's truly no different than patrolling the game to seek whom they may devour and destroy. And it's a sandbox. Should they stop liking things you don't like?
But you just want their groups to be smaller, as if that will change what it is that they do with their time. (It won't caange that, but it might occasionally give you a situational advantage.)

And patrol.

That's really amazing. In Mortal ONline 1, I'd say that (while every guild might get a red from time to time) a lot of players when red and stayted that way and liked it. That's not even counting the other kinds of criminals. It might have been as much as 2/3 of the population being what you might describe as 'the Bad Guys'.

But MO2 is somewhat different. Not different enough that I don't expect half the guilds (or half of some of the guilds) to be in the same broad class as you.

That was a great recruiting pitch.
But have you thought about rebranding as Really, the GOOD Guys R Us, with 'everyone is against us — it wouldn't be fair otherwise'?

I'd like to ask a corollary question: What happens when 50 mounteds attack 50 Foot Fighters?
If the answers are the same, then the problem is more than numerical.
Foot fighers might be really good in tight places, inside structures, even dungeons. It's hard to think of a way to make Mounted enemies seem any less superiour at survival without taking away Mounts.

Maybe you need caltrops.

Sounds good.

If greater numbers are that deadly, then maybe you should bite the bullet and form one huge guild of like-minded ciminals. The only problem, if your playstyle is so direly endangered, will be combining all the names.

This game isn't like other games because we don't have the population that other games have. So it's not a fair comparison to say that other games do the same things. The difference in a game with 1 million players compared to Mortal is this... No one would ever expect 1 million players to divide and join up between koto and legion. But our game Mortal Online2 usually has less then 100 players logged in daily. More then half of them are in those 2 guilds. So the numbers here are a lot worse on a smaller scale. If the devs don't limit how many players can join a guild then the desparity can just continue to grow an get worse. For every 1 player other guilds get, these guys get 10. No one's expecting our game to grow to a million players over night, if it did the koto and legion zerg would be forgotten overnight. Instead our game realistically gets new players in small batches. What do you think happens when you get small batches of 10 or so new people daily trying something an they get bullied by a bigger group on day 1? Most will either quit the game or decide to change sides. That's why the noobs join these guys. It isn't because of my references at mocking them as cowardly noobs, I was paraphrasing, but the message I'm describing remains the same. It isn't a matter of loyalty or other emotional circumstances when you are trying to recruit people faster then the sumo guy eating the whole buffet at the other end of the table... At that point you are just simply trying to grab whatever you can get as they join the game, it isn't like you get the time to know them on a personal level. Because this game has a lot of details that the developers just ignore. For example there's no solid direction to Guilds in the 1st place. I've stated before I'd like for them to give guilds a option to set their criteria of what kind of guild they are and what kind of players they want to join them an to have noobs to see that feature explained in the tutorial, to allow the new players more guidance in who they want to join. Having just a forum post is not realistic to meet those expectations. That's why guild presence in game as in showing your numbers and guild tag in multiple cities is such a overlooked advantage, that I'm not sure you realize. The things I'm talking about here aren't nuances you can really argue out of context. I'm literally explaining in perfect detail how this game works an why these things advantage other players much more then other PvP games, an it's a fact not a opinion.

 

[Najwalaylah]

So it's not a fair comparison to say that other games do the same things.

So I didn't.

But our game Mortal Online2 usually has less then 100 players logged in daily.

I will believe that when I see it on the Steam Chart:

Mortal Online 2 - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

Last I checked it was 620 or something high. Started at 300-something. Seems to be encouraging, now fix parry!

less then 100 players logged in daily. More then half of them are in those 2 guilds

That would be more than 49 (out of the "logged in daily"), divided into two guilds, or about 24-25 each (in KotO and in Legion?

• That is, if your numbers were correct, wiich they have not been for the days shown on the Steam Chart of MO2 since it began, on the 24th. The low point, NOT THE AVERAGE, but the LOW point since the tally started has been ~150 simultaneous players.

But half of the peak since Steem Charts became available, which is NOT THE AVERAGE, either, would mean that KotO & Legion between them had no more than 351 players each, IF only two people (you, for instance, and the leader of the Miscreants) were not in one of those two guilds, AND IF your estimate of "More then half of them are in those 2 guilds" was accurate and the truth.

I take it there's more than one person in your guild and more than one other who's not in your guild, nor in KotO, nor in Legion. There's really nothing to your numbers but hear-say. I hear you saying it, but it must have been that way some time ago at this point, if ever. At all.

If the devs don't limit how many players can join a guild then the desparity can just continue to grow an get worse. For every 1 player other guilds get, these guys get 10.

I kind of hope that Star Vault does, though limits existed & it didn't stop guilds in Mortal Online 1 from branching out, buying new guild stones, and adding to their numbers under more than one [TAG]. And I kind of hope they do it even though a lot of people used to ask for the limit on guild roster to be increased. I might change my mind with some cogent argument against the idea.

If @Henrik Nyström gets the 8k players he wants for the second iteration of his game (the lower limit that will keep it running), then with 16 keeps that will (with no limits on guild roster in place) mean a maximum average of 500 members for each keep owning guild — but that mazimum average will not be reached unless everyone is in a guild, which ain't gonna happen.

10 or so new people daily trying something an they get bullied by a bigger group on day 1? Most will either quit the game or decide to change sides.

The classic argument about those who quit is that they would have quit anyway; I am certain from what Henrik has said that he doesn't believe it. I'm glad to see that you are equally sensitive to this issue.

t isn't because of my references at mocking them as cowardly noobs,

It would only be the ones who had joined you and left to join elsewhere about whom that would be true, anyhow. They can't quit your guild if they were never in it. If they were never in it, we can't know why they weren't until one of them volunteers that information.

loyalty or other emotional circumstances when you are trying to recruit people faster then the sumo guy eating the whole buffet at the other end of the table... At that point you are just simply trying to grab whatever you can get as they join the game, it isn't like you get the time to know them on a personal level.

I'm not saying loyalty must depend on emotions, either.

But I was referring to their loyalty, not yours, so what it is that you're trying to do at your dinner with a sumo wrestler is not really the issue, though it does sound like a hard time.

I'd like for them to give guilds a option to set their criteria of what kind of guild they are and what kind of players they want to join them an to have noobs to see that feature explained in the tutorial, to allow the new players more guidance in who they want to join.

That might be helpful to you, and it might streamline a rational choice, but in a way it's more like advertising than neutral guidance. Let the Joiner beware. But it would keep those you absolutely do not want from swelling your numbers.

That's why guild presence in game as in showing your numbers and guild tag in multiple cities is such a overlooked advantage, that I'm not sure you realize.

I'm SURE you do not realise that I recruited for the Duchy of Wessex, the Kingdom of the Brood Isles, the Kingdom of Wessex... as well as giving orientation to almost all their recruits from before MO1 Beta to the time when I & the rest of the acting management of the guild joined Daneslaw and went to play DF in the lead-up to DF:Uw. It's strikingly unimportant except when you assume otherwise for, like,

The things I'm talking about here aren't nuances you can really argue out of context.

And, once again, I didn't.

I'm literally explaining in perfect detail how this game works

If this is how it works in your opinion, your opinion is not entirely convincing. Perhaps you should rest your case whiel I still partly agree with you.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

Idk I've played a lot of pvp games in my life and guild caps have never really stopped alliances from forming. Wouldn't really make a difference in MO since it's not like some instanced pvp games where you can say only 20v20 is allowed in city siege. It sucks but it's just the nature of open world pvp games. I'm not against a cap but idk if it's really make a difference. They'd just create branch guilds. Alliance. Then you'd need some alliance prevention or something

 

[Glitch]

Legion being a police? LMAO! That's hilarious AF. Blue police especially? LOL

Listen man... I haven't been able to give murder counts since my first 48 hours of my last reroll which took place maybe in July. There's never been a time I've gotten a murder count more than the times we've killed Miscreants. Also, not sure if you know but Legion is an RPK guild and literally kill everyone on sight except our 2-3 allies (KoTO is not one of them) which we rarely even PvP with.

I understand the whole small guild and zerg thing scenario. Although it seems very contradictory, I rather roam with a small Legion group and bang. Simply because my ADHD ass can't focus on having too many targets and friendlies in one screen. That being said, you will not get a fair fight in this game ever. It's a dynamic hardcore full loot MMO. This isn't Mordhau and there is no match making. With guild size caps all you're going to do is have multiple versions of different guilds. If you knew more about the game in the past you would know that in stress test March you had 50 members cap in every created guild... guess what happened? KoTO made like 6 different versions of the guild. Zerg guilds are rich and there's no stopping them on what they can do. Now with a war dec system all they have to do is have 5 different KoTO versions and then war dec each other.

Even though, I dislike Miscreants and Beastmasters it's not about what you guys do in the game as players... it's the racism and shit like that you guys say. It's not about "Oh no white knight this or not!" it's about people just being against racism to begin with and also driving people away from the game for being racist. All that being said, teaming up with Miscreants and other similar guilds is the ABSOLUTE WAY the game is played against bigger guilds. It's a dynamic breathing and living world.... if you want a fair fight and to match up with a better combination.... then play Mordhau. If you want an MMO PvP that will maybe give you a better fair fight... then play Albion Online where you can do 2v2 1v1 Hell gates and shit like that.

The moment you realize these facts the more you'll enjoy the game. Town fights suck dude unless you're war decced. If you want to avoid a zerg... position yourself wisely outside of town to a place you know people go to a lot (example: horse spawns, bandit camps, risar camps, etc.) these are things I do when I roam in a smaller group or even by myself.

There's a freebie guide to stop bitching about zergs and get better at the game.

 

[Deathshroud]

I think the larger the guild the more costly it should be to maintain the guild stone.

 

[Glitch]

I think the larger the guild the more costly it should be to maintain the guild stone.

I can get behind this to be honest. It's not really a bad idea. It forces people in the guild to not be dead weights a d contribute more and be more active.