Pets Have Ruined the Game Completely

[Emdash]

meh, be ez.

I just want the game to be better, and if you read thru this thread or many of the other threads, you will see there are a lot of good PoVs here. It's not our fault it's archaic. WE didn't abandon it haha.

I'd argue people who know more about MO are here, in comparison to, say, Reddit, but I understand that's where 'it's going down.'

Hopefully you can help new players by helping Henrik understand what he is fucking up and then the game would be good. What more could new players want than a good game?

peace

 

[Sabella]

I heard it all now, pet users arent content with their pets catching veelas with full clades on, now they also want them to catch actual mounted players lmao

Whats next? Should pets cast ele spells so they can take out a whole zerg by themselves?

When the zerg is afk, why not?

Here some over 20 years old examples, from the mother of mmorpg pvp group fights.
https://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-necromancer
Look up where it says "pet cast, pet PBAOE" and so on...

Oops it is tab targeting and not full loot, also 3rd person cam - i guess that nullifies my argument /irony off.
But seriously, what is the solution against zerging, when it is NOT mezz/stun/root/ etc. ?
No matter if a player or players pet is casting it, i mean.

Sadly Heinrich person also comes in his stream just to say: "stunns? No, no we do not want to do that due to the 'fast paste character'
of the game" - without answering the question: What is the "OTHER" solution against zerging then?

To the pet thingy, i like to ask you to calculate some things in:

People have collected a lot of anger by now. Pet user (as mage) get deleted for 2 years - i did not see you talk about this here,
that was acceptable and ok. Also, what pet does one hit you, like Thursar one hits a mage/tamer?
But lets cry a little bit together ...

It takes whatever you do about 6 hours to bring up a pet fight ready and on lvl. About this one i cry the hardest.
If you do not want to respec hard - and no player wants that - zero.

And yes, i talk about a normal player who does not leave the computer on at night to lvl x's pets on its x's account.
If that is in question.

In particular, there is no breeding, and you have to go back to the spawn.
Doms are even more busted than tamers and can not even buy the pet from petbrooker. Duno if they did change it.
Pet pathing is f*d still .. and so on and so on...

So you go and delete 2 hours playtime of the player with one axe swing - does that feel all right for you? Come on.
Pets have been naked forever, tamer mage have been naked forever, what is it you possibly can want more and
where should it come from?

to the topic ..so just from the top of my head, some more to BM and pets in general:

- As i said and every pet user: leveling pets takes too much time - it is like: char slots for the account or indicator of the weapon
you have equipped in your hot bar. While SV thinks it is QoL - it is mendatory for the players. Players, 100s of said it a thousand times.

- the pet is not with the pet user when a fight starts. Yes, "pet follow" was a improvement - no doubt. But SV needs to look at it again,
no i am not talking about a pokeball - i am talking about being reasonable, considering you leave 400 points in the city and
get in a fight with 700/1100 points while your pet is "on the way" for the next 30 seconds -
there is no such thing as a "your pet is too slow" i call bulls* - why do we have this pet?
-> The pet is with the pet user all the time- period. There is no further discussion about this. At least not with me.

- Forever, pets like turtle, can not go in or under water. But thats ok - for pet haters i guess. F those other players! Right?

- focus mechanic is dudu - a full saturated, and max leveled pet shoud sparkle of energy and fightlust - not take a nap

- pet pathing in buildings is not working esp. in TC structures also 1st floor bugged

- Feeding pets does not work sometimes. Maybe it is fixed now i duno for sure
- The amount of rideables needs to increase, but at the moment it is arguably better than it was
- some BM skills are too grindy to level up
- some BM skills have junky animations or do not work propper

So you have all this going on against you and the pet you can not even buy anywhere near - is worth around, let's say 125 gold
minimum. That is how you go out 150+ gold everytime as absolute minimum eco gear, while you can kill me naked with starter sword.

Please correct me where i am wrong ... but in all fairness.
What?

...

@Teknique, sum of your erlier suggestions in game, would make pets more usable, more accepted - until rework ;-) i like!

@Sally, I hope it is ok with you if leave some q's for. Maybe clever RobMo can get an audience and jump in to answer some questions too?
I followed your explainations but i do not share your view on the solution. In the sandbox the solution is not to nerf, but to give more tools to conter.
In my humble opinion. For example stunn/mezz/root would apply to pet and pet user, guards and other npcs too.
The armor is irrelevant when the target unable to fight/move for a while. I hope you can see where iam going with this. On the other hand weight should have impact, yes.

@SV_Heinrich,
- What do you have for us small groups in store against zerging? Other than kiteing and dying?
- When you do not have theme - because you not theme park- THEN where OUR TOOLS? What's up with that?
- Also, we can not have 3 situational chars, get real please.
- We do not care for a water continent - or other long breathing explanations. It is 2 years now. Let pets go into water.
- Please fix the pet pathing in buildings/TC structures, also pet hits through walls

Other than that if you do not have a solution for zerging i suggest implementing stunn/mezz/root/variuosAoEs as soon as possible.
For players and pets. And please let guards be charmed, so they can be a pet and kill blue too. Logic, you need to release the handbreaks of this.

 

[Emdash]

Sab, nice to see another wall of text. haha. A kindred spirit!

I really think, and I will keep saying it, Zerging is going to happen. That's the whole reason why people group up together. People stay on coms so they can call their friends out when someone attacks them or kills them. The way to deal with zerging, imo, isn't giving people escapes or whatever but making zerging not profitable.

The profitability of dungeons really benefits zergs. In some ways, it keeps a lot of them busy, but if they keep adding in 'zerg content,' zergs will just get more powerful. That is way more zergy than even stuff like GK in MO1, and the gains are much better, too!

There do need to be more pathways to escape. There should be multiple paths so that one can out think zergs, but eventually, you get zerged. haha. People were waiting in front of my house one time after I attacked one of their members. Just shot him while I was out w/ a friend and he rode away, and came back after farming and there were like 10+ people there. It's like haha ok. That's just how MO is. It's lame, but those people are weak imo.

The issue is being able to outwork them and outplan them. I don't think taking some Ls to them should be the end of the world, but the way the game is designed seems more and more favorable to large group content. That's lame.

Dudes paid for their zerging in horse blood anyway haha.

 

[Sabella]

@Emdash
"Zerging is going to happen" - i agree. Obviously, zerging did happen over 20 years ago and they found, invented a solution to that: crowd control.

They knew, players do demant a fighting chance to make kills while getting rolled by a zerg. So 'the unavoidable L' does not feel so bad anymore.
Then, the zerg can resurrect their fallen ones and everyone is 'happy'.

" the way the game is designed seems more and more favorable to large group content. That's lame."
It is ok so far but for zerging the solution is crowd control and it just needs to be added. And enchantments with it as well.

@Sally,
.. what a mess, i am so sorry.

@SV
Hello, is there anyone that can help us answer these questions we have about ingame mechanics please?
How and why is crowd control in the game or why not. We can not make this up upon ourselves!

 

[pooternackle]

The game would be improved if all combat pets were removed, full stop. They trivialize pve and break all non-zerg pvp. I get that henrik is obsessed with taming, but it's time to acknowledge that this just isn't working out. Don't waste time trying to rebalance, just pop the boil and get rid of the pets.

 

[Sally]

When the zerg is afk, why not?

Here some over 20 years old examples, from the mother of mmorpg pvp group fights.
https://www.darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-necromancer
Look up where it says "pet cast, pet PBAOE" and so on...

Oops it is tab targeting and not full loot, also 3rd person cam - i guess that nullifies my argument /irony off.
But seriously, what is the solution against zerging, when it is NOT mezz/stun/root/ etc. ?
No matter if a player or players pet is casting it, i mean.

Sadly Heinrich person also comes in his stream just to say: "stunns? No, no we do not want to do that due to the 'fast paste character'
of the game" - without answering the question: What is the "OTHER" solution against zerging then?

To the pet thingy, i like to ask you to calculate some things in:

People have collected a lot of anger by now. Pet user (as mage) get deleted for 2 years - i did not see you talk about this here,
that was acceptable and ok. Also, what pet does one hit you, like Thursar one hits a mage/tamer?
But lets cry a little bit together ...

It takes whatever you do about 6 hours to bring up a pet fight ready and on lvl. About this one i cry the hardest.
If you do not want to respec hard - and no player wants that - zero.

And yes, i talk about a normal player who does not leave the computer on at night to lvl x's pets on its x's account.
If that is in question.

In particular, there is no breeding, and you have to go back to the spawn.
Doms are even more busted than tamers and can not even buy the pet from petbrooker. Duno if they did change it.
Pet pathing is f*d still .. and so on and so on...

So you go and delete 2 hours playtime of the player with one axe swing - does that feel all right for you? Come on.
Pets have been naked forever, tamer mage have been naked forever, what is it you possibly can want more and
where should it come from?

to the topic ..so just from the top of my head, some more to BM and pets in general:

- As i said and every pet user: leveling pets takes too much time - it is like: char slots for the account or indicator of the weapon
you have equipped in your hot bar. While SV thinks it is QoL - it is mendatory for the players. Players, 100s of said it a thousand times.

- the pet is not with the pet user when a fight starts. Yes, "pet follow" was a improvement - no doubt. But SV needs to look at it again,
no i am not talking about a pokeball - i am talking about being reasonable, considering you leave 400 points in the city and
get in a fight with 700/1100 points while your pet is "on the way" for the next 30 seconds -
there is no such thing as a "your pet is too slow" i call bulls* - why do we have this pet?
-> The pet is with the pet user all the time- period. There is no further discussion about this. At least not with me.

- Forever, pets like turtle, can not go in or under water. But thats ok - for pet haters i guess. F those other players! Right?

- focus mechanic is dudu - a full saturated, and max leveled pet shoud sparkle of energy and fightlust - not take a nap

- pet pathing in buildings is not working esp. in TC structures also 1st floor bugged

- Feeding pets does not work sometimes. Maybe it is fixed now i duno for sure
- The amount of rideables needs to increase, but at the moment it is arguably better than it was
- some BM skills are too grindy to level up
- some BM skills have junky animations or do not work propper

So you have all this going on against you and the pet you can not even buy anywhere near - is worth around, let's say 125 gold
minimum. That is how you go out 150+ gold everytime as absolute minimum eco gear, while you can kill me naked with starter sword.

Please correct me where i am wrong ... but in all fairness.
What?

...

@Teknique, sum of your erlier suggestions in game, would make pets more usable, more accepted - until rework ;-) i like!

@Sally, I hope it is ok with you if leave some q's for. Maybe clever RobMo can get an audience and jump in to answer some questions too?
I followed your explainations but i do not share your view on the solution. In the sandbox the solution is not to nerf, but to give more tools to conter.
In my humble opinion. For example stunn/mezz/root would apply to pet and pet user, guards and other npcs too.
The armor is irrelevant when the target unable to fight/move for a while. I hope you can see where iam going with this. On the other hand weight should have impact, yes.

@SV_Heinrich,
- What do you have for us small groups in store against zerging? Other than kiteing and dying?
- When you do not have theme - because you not theme park- THEN where OUR TOOLS? What's up with that?
- Also, we can not have 3 situational chars, get real please.
- We do not care for a water continent - or other long breathing explanations. It is 2 years now. Let pets go into water.
- Please fix the pet pathing in buildings/TC structures, also pet hits through walls

Other than that if you do not have a solution for zerging i suggest implementing stunn/mezz/root/variuosAoEs as soon as possible.
For players and pets. And please let guards be charmed, so they can be a pet and kill blue too. Logic, you need to release the handbreaks of this.

So, this anti-nerf approach is something i always hear people bring up, and i really don't think people understand that nerfing one thing is akin to buffing everything else.

So, you have one really broken thing. You suggest that instead of just focusing on toning that one thing down, we go through every skill and tweak them to be equal to that?

In terms of time and resources, that is just not a good approach at all for something that ultimately achieves the same result : balancing.

Now, is it going to significantly alter the style of play of a tamer to tweak a few numbers? Not really. So it isn't like a nerf would rob the class of any of it's playstyle or identity. When it comes to hybrids? They need a nerf.

I get it, people like using cheat builds that can do everything, but they're really not fair on everyone else who doesn't want to play some franken-build that has no thematic cohesion in a game that is an RPG.

"Remember that amazing medieval fantasy novel/movie where the guy had a bow and cast magic spells with a pet bear, and never got off his horse?" said no one ever. Hybrids should be the minority, not the majority. They make the game look like a mess and are quite simply broken.

Very minor hybridization is fine, but the hybrids we see in MO2 are literally playing every class at a functional level. People should have one core "class", with some minor hybrid elements on the side... Not be some multi-class monster.

 

[MolagAmur]

God I hate Demoman with a passion. The guy is the sole reason we hear "Arcane Archer" like he created people using Mounted Archery and Mounted Magery. Cringe ass narcissistic "content creators". Also, this build sucks, just like his invented "Arcane Archer" build sucks. Dude has no idea what he's talking about and the Meduli townies act like he is a god amongst men.

Thats just kinda how it goes though. People who make Youtube videos about a build tend to get their names to become popular. You had people running around with "Arcane and Dark Archers" or whatever about 8 years ago though...just didn't have the trinkets back then and making build videos wasn't really a popular thing. More of a forum thread about it. No reason to hate on the guy though...

You could make a video now of a thursar build and name it Cunt Crusher and if enough new players see it...before long you'll be hearing it around town

 

[ElPerro]

@Emdash
"Zerging is going to happen" - i agree. Obviously, zerging did happen over 20 years ago and they found, invented a solution to that: crowd control.

They knew, players do demant a fighting chance to make kills while getting rolled by a zerg. So 'the unavoidable L' does not feel so bad anymore.
Then, the zerg can resurrect their fallen ones and everyone is 'happy'.

" the way the game is designed seems more and more favorable to large group content. That's lame."
It is ok so far but for zerging the solution is crowd control and it just needs to be added. And enchantments with it as well.

@Sally,
.. what a mess, i am so sorry.

@SV
Hello, is there anyone that can help us answer these questions we have about ingame mechanics please?
How and why is crowd control in the game or why not. We can not make this up upon ourselves!

How is crowd control the solution to zergs? They will just use it against you and its way more effective when you outnumber your opponent...

 

[Emdash]

How is crowd control the solution to zergs? They will just use it against you and its way more effective when you outnumber your opponent...

ye, BDO has CC and I was thinking the same thing haha.

Regardless, dudes... I really agree with this title. I have tried to explain to people, but I can't find anymore words. I can't do the whole logic / balance / etc thing again when people just don't listen.

The way I FEEL (so nobody can say I am wrong) is pets fucked up the game. They were already wack, but then they made them so you could put armor on them and ride them, and it's just a joke. The game is a joke.

Imagine the feeling of going through and crossing swords with people, or hiding and sniping / maging them. Then... sprinkle in some pets. Sure, there have always been some pets, but now... more pets. Pets in armor, people riding pets. It's not long until your whole imaginary, hardcore medieval 'immersion' is flooded out by PETS.

You are not fighting someone, now, you are defending against their pet. You are chasing them on horseback while they ride on their pet. It's not really the same feeling, but I guess it goes to prove that the audience really has shifted, and for me, I just can't fuck with MO in that state. That's kind of 'final answer,' too.

So, the succinct title "Pets have ruined the game" resonates with me. At this moment, I feel exactly that. And I'm sorry for all the beast masters etc, but even when you look on streams PEOPLE HAVE PETS. PEOPLE ARE RIDING ON PETS. It's the game now haha. Ugh.

 

[MolagAmur]

ye, BDO has CC and I was thinking the same thing haha.

Regardless, dudes... I really agree with this title. I have tried to explain to people, but I can't find anymore words. I can't do the whole logic / balance / etc thing again when people just don't listen.

The way I FEEL (so nobody can say I am wrong) is pets fucked up the game. They were already wack, but then they made them so you could put armor on them and ride them, and it's just a joke. The game is a joke.

Imagine the feeling of going through and crossing swords with people, or hiding and sniping / maging them. Then... sprinkle in some pets. Sure, there have always been some pets, but now... more pets. Pets in armor, people riding pets. It's not long until your whole imaginary, hardcore medieval 'immersion' is flooded out by PETS.

You are not fighting someone, now, you are defending against their pet. You are chasing them on horseback while they ride on their pet. It's not really the same feeling, but I guess it goes to prove that the audience really has shifted, and for me, I just can't fuck with MO in that state. That's kind of 'final answer,' too.

So, the succinct title "Pets have ruined the game" resonates with me. At this moment, I feel exactly that. And I'm sorry for all the beast masters etc, but even when you look on streams PEOPLE HAVE PETS. PEOPLE ARE RIDING ON PETS. It's the game now haha. Ugh.

Yeah, pets should have stayed as non-combat pets. Remember in MO1 when 1000HP molvas would chase you down hitting you for 30-40s and just murder you and there was NOTHING you could do about it? They finally nerfed it...then created a new problem with necro pets. DK's weakspotting players or Shades AOE entire groups. They nerfed that a bit eventually too. It still wasn't enough. Having a combat pet in a full-loot pvp game with so many other variables and dying being so punishing...its just crazy. It is impossible to balance combat pets. Literally impossible. Either they are shit or they are OP. There is no in-between. You can't satisfy both parties here, and unfortunately for us...Henrik is obsessed with combat pets and talks about how he was a tamer in his UO days.

 

[CherryKush]

Regardless, dudes... I really agree with this title. I have tried to explain to people, but I can't find anymore words. I can't do the whole logic / balance / etc thing again when people just don't listen.

It doesn't matter what we say and logic and reasoning has nothing to do with how this game is developed. I don't know if I should be talking about this but Henrik has a bag of chicken bones and throws them on the ground to make game choices. What ever the bones say is what is done, but sometimes they don't say anything at all and then..... we have to wait...

 

[Emdash]

It doesn't matter what we say and logic and reasoning has nothing to do with how this game is developed. I don't know if I should be talking about this but Henrik has a bag of chicken bones and throws them on the ground to make game choices. What ever the bones say is what is done, but sometimes they don't say anything at all and then..... we have to wait...

They are listening to somebody. They are trying to make money and appease their playerbase imo.

Speaking of things that we shouldn't be talking about... when you think of a hardcore sandbox, it allows enough freedom and brutality that it actually causes 'evolutionary factors' in its playerbase. Or at least some kind of video game darwinism haha. Survival of the fittest. The more soft they make the game, the less fit the players are, and the more the game becomes a grindy pet-based trinket farm. All of the people who used intelligence to survive, willpower, whatever... that's just not an issue, and thus those players are downvoting me on Reddit when I say things like "Yea, going overweight sucked, but if SV made it easier to STOP EATING, that wouldn't be a problem. Managing your weight was immersive, to me."

I honestly don't see how they can fix the game without starting over. I keep coming back to that, but I don't want it to be true because I want to play the game (and they are never gonna start over,) but... it's never gonna be what I want as it is.

Yeah, pets should have stayed as non-combat pets. Remember in MO1 when 1000HP molvas would chase you down hitting you for 30-40s and just murder you and there was NOTHING you could do about it? They finally nerfed it...then created a new problem with necro pets. DK's weakspotting players or Shades AOE entire groups. They nerfed that a bit eventually too. It still wasn't enough. Having a combat pet in a full-loot pvp game with so many other variables and dying being so punishing...its just crazy. It is impossible to balance combat pets. Literally impossible. Either they are shit or they are OP. There is no in-between. You can't satisfy both parties here, and unfortunately for us...Henrik is obsessed with combat pets and talks about how he was a tamer in his UO days.

all pets were center block, too, which could be a good start to helping them be balanced now; stacking pets is like hiding swings. If you can hold center block and block them all, that problem would be removed as well. Still, yeah, I dunno. It doesn't matter cuz it's not gonna change. Walkers and such kinda make sense cuz they are just bumbling mobs and you have to summon them each time. They don't really fit the necro thing (like raising corpses, which would be best,) but they seem to make sense moreso than pets / ritual risen stuff... I dunno if Tups, DKs, and such are still in the game tbh lol. I didn't pay much attention (tried to ignore the parts I didn't like,) and I was most into MO2 when it seemed like they were gonna go in a kind of different direction than the first game (cuz while MO didn't fail, imo, it went on a very fail path in the end.)

The only pet I remember people bitching about was vampire bats. I def remember molvas being stronk. I used them to farm bosses sometimes. I had some monster molvas. But I would never waste a good one in battle. There was a big risk, to me. Now you can just get pets at the spawn AND mount them. Nobody realizes that by making pets mountable they increased the amount of mounts in the game drastically, and mount spawns were supposed to be a strategic thing.

Ugh but yea... sorry. HENRIK, I wish you could fix ya game. I tried to help, but I dunno what to say. It seems you have your playerbase, and that's that.

 

[MolagAmur]

They are listening to somebody. They are trying to make money and appease their playerbase imo.

Speaking of things that we shouldn't be talking about... when you think of a hardcore sandbox, it allows enough freedom and brutality that it actually causes 'evolutionary factors' in its playerbase. Or at least some kind of video game darwinism haha. Survival of the fittest. The more soft they make the game, the less fit the players are, and the more the game becomes a grindy pet-based trinket farm. All of the people who used intelligence to survive, willpower, whatever... that's just not an issue, and thus those players are downvoting me on Reddit when I say things like "Yea, going overweight sucked, but if SV made it easier to STOP EATING, that wouldn't be a problem. Managing your weight was immersive, to me."

I honestly don't see how they can fix the game without starting over. I keep coming back to that, but I don't want it to be true because I want to play the game (and they are never gonna start over,) but... it's never gonna be what I want as it is.



all pets were center block, too, which could be a good start to helping them be balanced now; stacking pets is like hiding swings. If you can hold center block and block them all, that problem would be removed as well. Still, yeah, I dunno. It doesn't matter cuz it's not gonna change. Walkers and such kinda make sense cuz they are just bumbling mobs and you have to summon them each time. They don't really fit the necro thing (like raising corpses, which would be best,) but they seem to make sense moreso than pets / ritual risen stuff... I dunno if Tups, DKs, and such are still in the game tbh lol. I didn't pay much attention (tried to ignore the parts I didn't like,) and I was most into MO2 when it seemed like they were gonna go in a kind of different direction than the first game (cuz while MO didn't fail, imo, it went on a very fail path in the end.)

The only pet I remember people bitching about was vampire bats. I def remember molvas being stronk. I used them to farm bosses sometimes. I had some monster molvas. But I would never waste a good one in battle. There was a big risk, to me. Now you can just get pets at the spawn AND mount them. Nobody realizes that by making pets mountable they increased the amount of mounts in the game drastically, and mount spawns were supposed to be a strategic thing.

Ugh but yea... sorry. HENRIK, I wish you could fix ya game. I tried to help, but I dunno what to say. It seems you have your playerbase, and that's that.

Lmao yeah I forgot about the bats. Those things were fucking busted. And yeah we all used pets to farm bosses. Idk how it is in MO2 right now with pets and bosses...but I remember in MO1 if there was ever a hard mob or boss you had to kill...you had two options which was use pets or use a MA.

 

[Demccy]

I already have a thread that has lingered on here for some time regarding pets.. But honestly, i needed to make another one.

Literally EVERYONE is a tamer now. Usually using bears or Taur dogs. It is PATHETIC.

They are so broken, and honestly.. The game feels unplayable for certain classes right now because of the sheer quantity of shameless people gravitating towards easymode; and you can bet once they get there, they will defend it and tell us all it is fair. We're seeing it happen as i speak.

"But I'm a thursar and i think pets are EASY to kill".

We're not all steel plated thursars you moron. Second, that only works on potato tamers, or a tamer who you catch by surprise and is afk. Any good tamer will just pull their pet away and cast on you, where you'll be too fat to catch them. When you go to chase the mage, they'll set the pet back on you. Easy. Or, if they're a melee tamer, they'll just bash you down whilst you're being hit from all sides. You can't block both of them, so you're fucked.

Pets are now in a position where they've been left for too long, and now everyone is using them. So now we'll have a bunch of people defending pets BECAUSE they use them. This is going to make it harder to persuade the devs to get this broken trash fixed.

Pets are basically PVE in PVP. You're forcing an NPC to fight someone who is a real player. You're forcing PVE on PVPers when you play tamers. This is antithetical to what should be the core design of the game. Full loot PVP.

I get it, the carebears are so bad at PVP they need pets. This game is NOT for them. STOP catering to people who are trash at videogames. They are SUPPOSED TO LOSE.

Pets are WAY WAY too strong. They are like another whole player when they're armored. So you're basically fighting two for one if someone plays tamer. That makes them better in group fights AND in 1 v1 (which is really 2v1).

Seriously, what is the point of being veela now when you can't even outrun a pet WITH CLADES.

They need a MASSIVE nerf, and they need to make it easier to collect them and train them so then people stop whining about how long it took them to train their broken trashy babymode pet.

This is NOT pokemon. Please put balance before realism when it comes to pets. PLEASE for the love of god. They are DISGUSTING and skilless.

Not to poke fun but I seen you fight and again not to be rude you still have a TON to learn about pvp and how it works. Yes pets are strong and there are builds to deal with them and could use some balancing. But as you should know magic is just as strong. Try when you die to learn from your experiences and adjust your build accordingly for the playstyle you want to achieve. I would find a competent guild and pick their brains and find a place in the world of Mortal. Mortal is a hardcore game and you will die a TON before you die LESS is up to you to choose how to fight in the world of mortal and conquer your enemies.

 

[Sabella]

So, this anti-nerf approach is something i always hear people bring up, and i really don't think people understand that nerfing one thing is akin to buffing everything else.

I agree with you and Emdash that the current form of taming/dominating/using pets is broken and not acceptable.
I admit it is for different reasons. I disagree on the balance thingy, no real balance in a sandbox.
If you want something "more like balanced", you rather pick an arena title. In my opinion.

Also, you want balance: we do not even have the magic dmg or pet dmg numbers. In the character window it shows only the melee dmg.(!)
But if you do compare it, with some effort, you will realize how much the game is stacked against anything else than melee.
Go to the Thursar and put on the 150 dmg swing a 10-second-long swing time. And then let's see how happy everyone is with this change..

Protection. Let's say a bear attacks you. What dmg type does the bear do? Let's say it is just slash dmg - so you can have an enchantment against slash on the armor, just like the bonus you get from trinkets. Enchantments achieve what you want, if more protection against slash is what you want.

So, you have one really broken thing. You suggest that instead of just focusing on toning that one thing down, we go through every skill and tweak them to be equal to that?

In the most simple form you have a npc with an item that has the type of dmg protection on you want.
You buy it and apply it to your armor pice you want it on - with the combine tool, for example.

Later it would be nice to see enchantments to be craftable. And with the needed counter messures
for DoTs you can also increase DoT dmg now - at the moment a placeholder. DoTs do no significant dmg.

Games like this have internal tools where the different dmg types can be adjusted and changed - even live.
Does this game have those kind of tools? I do not know, but no biggie. The game needs these kind of tools anyway,
for a more easy dmg type integration of new dmg types and balancing in the future.

In terms of time and resources, that is just not a good approach at all for something that ultimately achieves the same result : balancing.

It does achieve much more. Here is how/why:
1. With crowd control, mage is able to deal with 4 pop random spawnd veteran outlaws - right now 9/10 mages is toast in that situation.
2. With crowd control, mage is able to prepare those 12 seconds cast time AoEs that, at the moment hit no one -> everyone is just moving away.
3. With charm, pet user can get guards and use them as a pet - every non high lvl guard tower is a new spawn for pets to play with.
Just nerfing or removing pets does not achieve that, as you can see.

Crowd control is a whole new mechanic, for MO2, that side effects also zerging. In a good and healthy way for the game.
It also side effects pet user and pets as i said. Also in a good and healthy way for the game. And also what you demand: "a nerf", if you will.
You have a tool to stop and to protect further against those nasty pets!

The tools currently in the game are not useful in fighting, not supporting group enough or are too slow/expensive/situational.

I was offering a solution and yes i propose the over 20-year-old, working, Rolls-Royce solution for all players, not the bike solution.
You do not see the need and return of investment for the players? Then i can not help. I am not here to beg for the soul of the game.

What i say is: it needs enchantments, crowd control anyway and the game will get rid of a ton of problems it has right now. And in total,
it is definitely worth the investment.

So what do you guys "have"?
- "zerging is not worth it in terms of gold", yes it is not worth it because of the nature of the 1vX - x peops, share 1 set. Not an argument.
- "It achives the same with less efford", i would say it doesn't and i have made at least 3 examples.
- "time and resources" i can not talk about that - i am not from SV so, rather fix gameplay mechanics/playstyles or throw the 6th dungeon in?

 

[Sabella]

How is crowd control the solution to zergs? They will just use it against you and its way more effective when you outnumber your opponent...

The first people comming in front of a zerg is most likely melee dmg dealer (fast veela FF) you can cc and kill,
depending on the spec and loadout (and enchantments) of both sure. BUT yes in general you have an argument. ffs!

Mage in front is rare for on foot fights due to 0 protection. And when you fight for a keep/SH you fight on foot.
That is the fight that matters, therefor it should be the role model of all big fights and as balanced as possible.

But you are right, i did not choose my words correctly: It is not a solution - in a way that, it makes zergs "go away".
There is no "pampers" solution to this, but cc is a weight to have to fight outnumberd. Today it is 0.5 flop.
Maybe we can find common ground in: "it does not need to be like that".

 

[Markay]

Tbh before you could make pets quite tanky it was mostly a matter of a few hits for a melee but overall I think you are right that pets are too easy to use. Now with white bears and taur dogs this changed quite a bit as they hit like a truck also.
If they would at least reduce the standard attack dmg on players by a lot and would make only BM skills do decent dmg on players this all would make a lot more sense.
They would need to reduce the focus costs for skills tho but it would actually need player skill to make a pet useful. Ritualists would need to use a tupilak for pvp or be OK with having pets with less dmg... Atm it's too easy mode with obtaining risen pets compared to living ones for 100 points and a little gold cost anyway.

Leave it for pve as it is, make pets level way quicker and it would be better for tamers and non tamers.

u never used ritualism dont talk bs if u dont know "little gold cost" lmao jsut getting ritualism 100 cost a few k the pets also cost often a few hundred gold thats not a little gold cost +u need a house to make them and u cant use towers i have one char tamer one ritualist tamer has it MUCH easyer to get pets...... so stfu if u new and dont know what u talking about before u complain about anything !

 

[Xenom]

u never used ritualism dont talk bs if u dont know "little gold cost" lmao jsut getting ritualism 100 cost a few k the pets also cost often a few hundred gold thats not a little gold cost +u need a house to make them and u cant use towers i have one char tamer one ritualist tamer has it MUCH easyer to get pets...... so stfu if u new and dont know what u talking about before u complain about anything !

Chill, I have been using ritualism for like more than a year but I am open enough to see the problems with it. In the end ritualism with access to all pets for only 100 skillpoints after a little cost beforehand is just too easy mode if you like it or not. But the problem is more the auto attacks dealing massive dmg for living or risen pets.
For the game if you limit the auto attack dmg of pets in pvp only, leave pve alone and move the dmg in pvp more to BM skills and the tupilak skills for ritualism or add a few BM skills to risen ones it would be way better balanced for the game overall in my opinion.
Pet use in pvp needs to be more skill based in the end and the click and forget mechanic in pvp is what makes pets unbalanced.

Edit: costs are 50 curved bones, than around 150g for candles and circles to get it to 25 and after that you only need a tupilak and a little time so hardly a few k

Oh and what I would change in detail:
1. Reduce auto attack dmg on players by 80%
2. Reduce focus cost of BM skills by 50%
3. Remove going Grey from risen pets (it's just unfun gameplay wise)
4. Maybe add a few BM skills to risen pets where you need BM also tho this would basically risk taming and dominate as a class as it costs way more points for hardly any gain after point 3

 

[Gnidex]

Yeah, pets should have stayed as non-combat pets. Remember in MO1 when 1000HP molvas would chase you down hitting you for 30-40s and just murder you and there was NOTHING you could do about it? They finally nerfed it...then created a new problem with necro pets. DK's weakspotting players or Shades AOE entire groups. They nerfed that a bit eventually too. It still wasn't enough. Having a combat pet in a full-loot pvp game with so many other variables and dying being so punishing...its just crazy. It is impossible to balance combat pets. Literally impossible. Either they are shit or they are OP. There is no in-between. You can't satisfy both parties here, and unfortunately for us...Henrik is obsessed with combat pets and talks about how he was a tamer in his UO days.

Knowing Henrik played something as braindead as a tamer in UO, and liked it, explains the failures of both MO1 and 2 nicely.

This is the best they can do...

 

[Slarti Bartfast]

campodon doo doo