Pets Have Ruined the Game Completely

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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I like this idea, but if you're going to hurt the damage they put out in PVP that much, you have to reduce the skill points it takes to have a pet, otherwise it would be worthless.
They need to reduce the point cost of things in general. They added so many useless primaries generally speaking

I mean, tamers really touch on a greater issue the game has : hybridization. If we look at the "meta" builds, they're all builds that try to do everything. In turn, this suggests there are too many skill points in the game; which will only get worse with the veteran system.

You put yourself at a HUGE disadvantage by not being a hybrid.. Where as the game would be WAY more balanced if it boosted more specialist play.
Interesting take. I to some extent feel the opposite. I really really enjoyed the types of characters you could create in the first game. In the 2nd game I feel like there are too many non negotiable skills that every class needs. Its only free skill placement in name really because every char needs full armor training, extra skills dedicated to their class like mounted magery. This wasn't the case in the first game.

That said the class balance I feel is completely garbage as a whole so yeah it makes sense that a pure class should have advantages.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Ive gotten ganked 4 times in the last 2 days by MC /MA combo, or MC / MM riding either steel armored bears or taur dogs.

This shit is absolute cancer. While mounted they run faster than an armored horse and are harder to hit, especially the small taur dogs. The MC do a shit ton of damage even if they hit you wile you are riding away from them (cause the taur dig runs faster than a horse?)
As soon as your mount is dead, they bot get off, and send both pets on you wile nuking you or bowing you down.
God forbid that you get knocked off your horse by the lancer, and you are dead before you can even get up.
Even if you manage to dismount you are against 2 pets that hit insanely hard for how tanky they are…..and you havent even started fighting the 2 players….

There is absolutely no way to fight this. Mounts that can be used as a fighting pet and are impossible to kill or parry and go faster than horses while fully armored are simply insanity.

Im done with this shit game for a few months. See you all once they fix this ridable armored fighting pets that cant be blocked and will chase you forever.

lool. I mean they have to revert some stuff. None of that shit matters in 'actual fights,' but it's just small scale memes. There is no way to get out of this other than reverting stuff.

I find it just offensive that people are putting armor on their pets. What sort of a bear would wear armor and move in it? lool. Like when you try to put a leash on a cat, it would probably just lay down. Then, what sort of a bear or wild beast would let you ride around on it? AND people are doing Mounted Attack skills from them? It's like what even is happening?!

I actually thought there would be a limit of mounting a pet and doing stuff like MA. haha. I just dunno what their goal is.
They need to reduce the point cost of things in general. They added so many useless primaries generally speaking


Interesting take. I to some extent feel the opposite. I really really enjoyed the types of characters you could create in the first game. In the 2nd game I feel like there are too many non negotiable skills that every class needs. Its only free skill placement in name really because every char needs full armor training, extra skills dedicated to their class like mounted magery. This wasn't the case in the first game.

That said the class balance I feel is completely garbage as a whole so yeah it makes sense that a pure class should have advantages.

It depends on what you're trying to do. You can dump a lot more stuff in MO2 if you are making solo mounted builds. One of the greater equalizers in MO1 was how powerful MC was, so if your shit wasn't right, you'd get dropped off pretty fast by just a roaming guy. Now you can take magic, archery... skip balance, skip armor, skip stances lol. Or you can do the same with pets and end up riding around w/ an MA and a bunch of wolves.

Most people use MA to just ride next to people and shoot them as well so they don't even use full MA.

I didn't even have good trinkets, and I dropped weapon and ground stuff to be a 90+ int full spec mage with full spec mounted skills and anatomy. I don't think anyone solo was gonna fuck w/ me, but it's been a min since I played. The way it worked out, before I even min-maxed up to 90 int and shrunk my size, it was kinda a joke.

If you're trying to fight on the ground with other people tho, yeah, you'd want a standard build.

But even tho mounts in general are less tanky, and longbows bang mounts the hardest, you can just skate away from a longbow situation and use your advantage w/ MA to delete the mounts.

I never even put steel on my mount. I was taking 40+ hits all of the time. I can't imagine how op shit would be with decent pet armor. It's just wack. Small scale stuff happens way more than big fights in this game, so the whole argument 'the game is balanced around big fights' doesn't do much for me.

Mounted is almost a different game and THAT'S COOL. But when you can dismount people and then put your army of pets on them, it's cheezy. It's prol not as powerful as MA/MM, which is cheezy, too, but it can get kills on the ground. If people pull out a bow to go after you and you put pets on them, unless they are well armored, they are gonna probably die before your mount or your pets do. And even if you do lose your mount, you still got them damaged + your pets are still on them.

The fact that you need steel+ to tank that shit is just limiting to the non-zerg player base. And the build that can kite anyone with lower armor... ain't getting away from pets.

TLDR, you're not wrong, but somehow despite extra skills, mounted meme builds are at an all time high... mainly because imo there isn't a strong MC presence to force you to need armor / balance, etc. I do see lancers, tho, but heh... it ain't like it was. You'd run into MCs a lot more in MO1. They'd even troll you on the ground unless you could parry to safety.
 
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finegamingconnoisseur

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One way they can make combat pets less overpowered is to make controlling them a channelling action like casting a spell when targeting another player.

If the combat pet user takes any other action during PvP, the pet disengages and reverts to its passive state. This means the pet user has to choose either using the pet or themselves to PvP.

This would only apply to PvP of course, in PvE let things continue as they currently are.
 

Sin

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Jan 21, 2022
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Beast mastery should only increase the damage/potency that the pet abilities do. Pet armor should slow pets down and drain stamina faster the heavier the armor. Also make Another primary skill tree in domestication that makes pets be able to wear armor (more points = heavier armor). Pets should also suffer health and stamina reserves, making you place them in stables to recover. Mounts should also suffer stamina loss when getting hit in PvP.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Yea Sin, the fact that armor does nothing to them is nuts. I will assume they will never have stam. It would be better to do a time limit or a number of attacks. I really think the latter would be the best. W/ my suggestion of pet types, most hits for a chase type, so you could actually put a pet on someone and harass them, but it wouldn't do much damage. Then, it would come back and you'd have to wait a sec before you used it again. If it was a damage type, you'd get a few good attacks, but it wouldn't be mobile enough to chase well. If it was a tank type, it would have some attacks if people came up on you. In fact, they could maybe leave that alone. It would still be OP, tbh, to have a pet protecting you, and that would be a good way to use pets for people who are actually pvping.

Armor just needs to go period, because balance was never achieved WITHOUT armor. Another thing, like Jack said, there is just no reason that pet mounts should compare to horses for speed. It might be 'realistic,' but for balance it's stupid. I saw a vid of Diph riding a pet. First off, I was watching him MA, and then I was like dafaq is he even riding cuz I couldn't see anything under his legs. A tiny ass dog or something haha. Maybe a wolf. Seemed fast.

I'm super against pet mounts as well, but if they are in the game, it needs to be a secondary use. It's really just a bad look overall tho to me.

I fux with anime and JRPGs, so I'm not hating, but the whole gritty vibe of MO is damaged by stuff like people riding around on wolves and bears.

Once more: the key is to give things a purpose. The idea that things should be multi purpose (attack pets AND mounts, even Lyks were strong, but they weren't go to attack pets. You'd be dumb to send a good lyk into battle cuz it would die) is where MO is failing. It's kind of the same idea with armor. First you gottta level it up, then you can put gear on it. It's like ??? That's not helping the balance any more.

They need to focus on what sort of damage pets should do to players. It should be more of a true damage, imo. It should be mitigated by armor, but it shouldn't be like scales = 30-40, Steel = 5. It should be like... 25 scales, 15 steel, for the most potent attack pets, and then balance their health for how many hits you think they should take. Start with the idea of function then work from there. This pet chases and dmgs for like 8s or 5s vs armor, enough to fuck up someone's bandaid or troll a mage for 10 seconds. This pet can bang a few good hits for 80 total dmg on a mage and 50 on a fighter. That's NOT small dmg. That's magic dmg. When you look at it in those terms, things make a lot more sense and you can start to balance it.

Pets chasing people up hills, infinite stam, biting til you die... it's just stupid.
 

Rahz

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Jul 19, 2022
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Its nice to see the discussion going in a productive direction lol
A few really important topics to be found.
Yes, Hybridization is in my mind a problem, especially if you can get 100+ primaries from amulets. The thing that balanced MC builds was that their mounts were unarmored. They couldnt catch you on a slower mount and you would still have a chance in killing their naked desert horse, before its too late and you're falling off your horse with 50% of your HP left .
So yeah some mounts are too fast and heavy armor materials are simply too good.
Im talking Steel, Tungsteel, Cronite and Oghmium. You put on these kinds of armors and arrows are just not a problem anymore...so every archer now has a useless build, footie fights take FOREVER and everyone is frustrated with magic damage, coz its the only way to hit people for actual numbers.
Now lets clad my TDog in Oghmium. Hits like a truck, is not affected by your puny arrows or dull blades, has too much HP to be bursted down by magic and outruns everyone.
In essence:
Just let the pet come back, whenever someone manages to get far enough away from the owner. Put it on a 50m leach around the owner, so people can escape. Then start nerfing heavy armor or give people a speed debuff for running around in Heavy Armor( just like pets) . As it stands, its too strong, especially with additional defensive trinkets. Everyone running around in the heaviest of armors is shitty balancing be it the players themselves or their pets.
 
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azezal

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Mar 27, 2024
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Pets are only good for killing a player when their mount has been killed and he is on foot. Not even a panther will catch a mounted Archer while he is mounted.

Without a pet a fight between two wheelchair mounted archers just means that whoever kills the others horse will ride away into the sunset without getting the kill, because the other MA is going to use a tree and a longbow to bring opponents horse down.

Dungeons are another issue but they are basically whoever has bigger gangbang wins. When was the last time someone complained in help chat that they lost a dungeon fight to another zerg because they had more pets than them?

Considering pets can't catch someone mounted, I consider them broken and not in an overpowered sense.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Pets are only good for killing a player when their mount has been killed and he is on foot. Not even a panther will catch a mounted Archer while he is mounted.

Without a pet a fight between two wheelchair mounted archers just means that whoever kills the others horse will ride away into the sunset without getting the kill, because the other MA is going to use a tree and a longbow to bring opponents horse down.

Dungeons are another issue but they are basically whoever has bigger gangbang wins. When was the last time someone complained in help chat that they lost a dungeon fight to another zerg because they had more pets than them?

Considering pets can't catch someone mounted, I consider them broken and not in an overpowered sense.

hmm. haha.

But the fact that pets counter bow use is a big thing. You know it's not hard to dismount someone.

They are a high chance kill if you get someone on foot. They do it better than any other attack a mounted has to offer, unless the person is geared, but in the same way, you don't have to engage them. They are less likely to be equipped to deal with mount griefing as well.
 

ElPerro

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Jun 9, 2020
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Pets are only good for killing a player when their mount has been killed and he is on foot. Not even a panther will catch a mounted Archer while he is mounted.

Without a pet a fight between two wheelchair mounted archers just means that whoever kills the others horse will ride away into the sunset without getting the kill, because the other MA is going to use a tree and a longbow to bring opponents horse down.

Dungeons are another issue but they are basically whoever has bigger gangbang wins. When was the last time someone complained in help chat that they lost a dungeon fight to another zerg because they had more pets than them?

Considering pets can't catch someone mounted, I consider them broken and not in an overpowered sense.
I heard it all now, pet users arent content with their pets catching veelas with full clades on, now they also want them to catch actual mounted players lmao

Whats next? Should pets cast ele spells so they can take out a whole zerg by themselves?
 

Emdash

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speaking of mounted meme builds, just saw this haha. AIYE.

I saw something on a spez video where they are trying to make it so that beast master requires more skill... SOON. It's like... why not nerf their dmg in pvp for now until that is taken care of, even if they don't remove the armor etc. SHIT.

There are def real problems with MO outside of that, but this shit is too much. lol. MA/MM/Pets RIP.

My build is like that cept no balance, not gimped w/ dex (people underrate the mobility of dex on a mount. The kind of people who don't kite away while they fight MA, I guess,) full combat movement. 60 Control/aim/marks. Taming.

No necro tho I could probably get it. THAT BUILD HAS NO CREATURE CONTROL, NO HERDING. They can start by absolutely making 125 horses cost way more PP like in MO1.

Also don't tell dude but 82 str isn't enough to pull a dense bow right, unless they changed the game since I last played. I dunno the exact number you need, but I had to take the elf bow clade as lean to not bleed out stam, and that was 83. That drains stam like an asym would. I try to go +5 over the req but I'm not sure what the exact number is.

Edit: time stamp haha
HORSEMAN OF THE APOCALYPSE. :eek:
 
May 4, 2024
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God I hate Demoman with a passion. The guy is the sole reason we hear "Arcane Archer" like he created people using Mounted Archery and Mounted Magery. Cringe ass narcissistic "content creators". Also, this build sucks, just like his invented "Arcane Archer" build sucks. Dude has no idea what he's talking about and the Meduli townies act like he is a god amongst men.
 

Devildog0491

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I never invented Arcane Archer, that was Based Belagio.
I published Dark Archer months after it became meta despite knowing about it since inception because of how much damage it would do to the meta.
Next time you insinuate somebody has no idea what they are talking about provide evidence actually tied to that person and if you want to go the extra mile a suggestion on how to improve. Literally my first time coming to these archaic forums I searched my name to see if anybody has mentioned me and I see this post less than an hour old lol, I feel flattered. Thanks for the shoutout.
 

Devildog0491

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speaking of mounted meme builds, just saw this haha. AIYE.

I saw something on a spez video where they are trying to make it so that beast master requires more skill... SOON. It's like... why not nerf their dmg in pvp for now until that is taken care of, even if they don't remove the armor etc. SHIT.

There are def real problems with MO outside of that, but this shit is too much. lol. MA/MM/Pets RIP.

My build is like that cept no balance, not gimped w/ dex (people underrate the mobility of dex on a mount. The kind of people who don't kite away while they fight MA, I guess,) full combat movement. 60 Control/aim/marks. Taming.

No necro tho I could probably get it. THAT BUILD HAS NO CREATURE CONTROL, NO HERDING. They can start by absolutely making 125 horses cost way more PP like in MO1.

Also don't tell dude but 82 str isn't enough to pull a dense bow right, unless they changed the game since I last played. I dunno the exact number you need, but I had to take the elf bow clade as lean to not bleed out stam, and that was 83. That drains stam like an asym would. I try to go +5 over the req but I'm not sure what the exact number is.

Edit: time stamp haha
HORSEMAN OF THE APOCALYPSE. :eek:
Also don't tell dude but 82 str isn't enough to pull a dense bow right,
Yes it is, you just have more stam drain and rarely is it a factor on the build. Most of the time by the time you stam you're ready to heal your horse or rotate in magic. You can adjust your numbers if your accuracy is bad enough that you stam out before killing their horse.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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I never invented Arcane Archer, that was Based Belagio.
I published Dark Archer months after it became meta despite knowing about it since inception because of how much damage it would do to the meta.
Next time you insinuate somebody has no idea what they are talking about provide evidence actually tied to that person and if you want to go the extra mile a suggestion on how to improve. Literally my first time coming to these archaic forums I searched my name to see if anybody has mentioned me and I see this post less than an hour old lol, I feel flattered. Thanks for the shoutout.

also ironically I was thinking "I wonder if dude will see this." haha. HMM.

Nonetheless, I don't blame you for your builds, but it's true that sort of shit is ruining MO. I have no opinion on people using the mechanics to succeed. I just wish they would make it better.

For some people, those are the reason they play MO, but for a lot more, it's the reason they won't play it. I think it outweighs toward low skill nubby gamers who are ruining Mo.

I wouldn't be mad if they made it so you couldn't heal your own horse because that's the whole point of AA. If you're gonna run MA, you kinda start out like hmm I could take some magic, then you're like hmm I should be able to heal my horse at least. It's too OP. Even with MM being a primary, it's still easy to find the points. If you are on a taur dog I can't imagine how hard it would be for you to be hit. Shit is just making the game into a joke. That's why I was upset at the lore comment. That type of character does not fit into my MO Lore any more than fat mages with lances do.
 

Devildog0491

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also ironically I was thinking "I wonder if dude will see this." haha. HMM.

Nonetheless, I don't blame you for your builds, but it's true that sort of shit is ruining MO. I have no opinion on people using the mechanics to succeed. I just wish they would make it better.

For some people, those are the reason they play MO, but for a lot more, it's the reason they won't play it. I think it outweighs toward low skill nubby gamers who are ruining Mo.

I wouldn't be mad if they made it so you couldn't heal your own horse because that's the whole point of AA. If you're gonna run MA, you kinda start out like hmm I could take some magic, then you're like hmm I should be able to heal my horse at least. It's too OP. Even with MM being a primary, it's still easy to find the points. If you are on a taur dog I can't imagine how hard it would be for you to be hit. Shit is just making the game into a joke. That's why I was upset at the lore comment. That type of character does not fit into my MO Lore any more than fat mages with lances do.
Yes, I've been a huge critic of how they implemented pets and ritualism. I've suggested several fixes even in video format.
That said, I'm still going to use them to beat the shit out of people because I'm not an idiot, why wouldnt I want to spend 197 skill points to get a pet with 1200HP that can wear armor, carry 25 stacks of material, and hit footies in reptile for 40 dmg with AOE cleave knockup abilities? Find me a better 200 primaries, I'll wait.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Also don't tell dude but 82 str isn't enough to pull a dense bow right,
Yes it is, you just have more stam drain and rarely is it a factor on the build. Most of the time by the time you stam you're ready to heal your horse or rotate in magic. You can adjust your numbers if your accuracy is bad enough that you stam out before killing their horse.

I said that. It depends on how many people you are fighting at once. Why would you lose stam if you could not lose stam with just a few more points?

It's a substantial difference. It does matter more when you are planning to fight on the ground after (how i learned it was bad,) but given how little of an investment you need... like 5 points max, I dunno why you would tell someone that. They might never know that they aren't supposed to be stamming out with a short bow haha.

I don't think speccing min req stam and losing big stam when you could just put like 5 points in to have infinite shots is something you can argue in regards to skill v not, but ok.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Yes, I've been a huge critic of how they implemented pets and ritualism. I've suggested several fixes even in video format.
That said, I'm still going to use them to beat the shit out of people because I'm not an idiot, why wouldnt I want to spend 197 skill points to get a pet with 1200HP that can wear armor, carry 25 stacks of material, and hit footies in reptile for 40 dmg with AOE cleave knockup abilities? Find me a better 200 primaries, I'll wait.

I posted on your vid, wait til they fix the game. It's not about what is good or not, but it's more about how ridiculous a lot of the game is atm.

Shit has been tuff times for me lately, and I haven't played MO in a grit, but if they make the game less of a meme, I am gonna be back to 'test my skillz.' We'll see how I fare.
 
May 4, 2024
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I never invented Arcane Archer, that was Based Belagio.
I published Dark Archer months after it became meta despite knowing about it since inception because of how much damage it would do to the meta.
Next time you insinuate somebody has no idea what they are talking about provide evidence actually tied to that person and if you want to go the extra mile a suggestion on how to improve. Literally my first time coming to these archaic forums I searched my name to see if anybody has mentioned me and I see this post less than an hour old lol, I feel flattered. Thanks for the shoutout.
I literally don't care, you're all the same. Clout chasing degens. The build has been around for years. not months. You came here to search your name. lul wut. I hit that narcissism spot on.
 
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@Emdash Dude you are correct, don't listen to this idiot. There is a stamina penalty range with unique ranges for foot and mounted. Sure, being at the strength requirement you can pull the bow, but it isn't ideal. I only watched mouth breather demo mans video for a few seconds. If he has aiming technique he probably won't notice the penalty at all.
 

Devildog0491

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I literally don't care, you're all the same. Clout chasing degens. The build has been around for years. not months. You came here to search your name. lul wut. I hit that narcissism spot on.
Yeah, clout chaser who makes videos for an extremely niche mmo lol. I literally make videos to help new players because I want the game to grow and highlight reels for my boys.
But hey, you're entitled to your opinions even if they are garbage and demonstratably false.