Pets Are Too Strong.

[Xenom]

Lol.. Kill the one on top.. Who can either heal themselves or also kill your mount, which has less HP because you're on a horse if you're not a tamer.

No matter which way you slice it, they always have the upperhand unless you choose to be wilfully ignorant of what they're capable of. You think MA is broken? (It isn't btw, it is only broken when you add magic) Tamers can be MA too. What then?

They are broken. You are in denial if you say otherwise.

You are kinda fast with throwing around you are delusional when I think you don't really understand what pets bring to the table and what not.

2 issues with pets as I see them.
1st no stamina, they should have some sort of range how far they can chase
2nd ritual horses having way more HP and Stam than living one's for whatever reason

But just some scenarios where I think you are just making a buzz about non critical issues with pets. Let's take 1v1 situations as you keep hammering on them and like most fights outside dungeon are not on foot let's pretend it doesn't start on foot.

1. Mage tamer vs MA. Basically an MA can shoot 2-3 times while a tamer can heal himself or the pet once. An MA can easily keep the pressure on the pet or the mage. The mage is an easy hit as he can't move the horse while casting. Is the pet tanky you focus the mage if you lose this setup you basically just where not good. Like all MA have healing but in this setup they hardly would need it. You say MA is broken because of healing but well you mix and match what fits and currently there is just no pure archer archetype that works... I tried long ago and thought wtf meta this will work... It did not

2. MA with pets vs MA. Basically only feasible with ritualism and there is definitely the benefit of horses having higher HP than living ones. An issue with ritualism but not pets in general. The combat pet will chase you for no real gain. Whoever is on the ground without a horse first dies. If one of them uses a bear or Molva the one with the horse has the benefit to retreat more easily, use it.

3. Tamer vs footie. If caught in open field with mount fighting sure you got a problem like if an MA got ya. Still if you wear something above bone tissue a pet deals like 10 dmg on you, sure whoever is mounted can pull back heal and come back but you bandage also...also while you fight the pet it's not like you are hit from the player non stop as this is no easy task. This setup would take forever and there is plenty of time to move around, you basically also should have a bow, chances are good you will get the pet and that you just chase of the mage with a bow.


But oh well in the end I'll stop here because my guess is this is still mostly about someone complaining that he gets hit for to much in bone tissue stuff and no arguments will change that you want to ride around with cheap stuff clapping someone in steel with ease.

 

[Rahz]

I feel with you. It rages me every time I solo roam and some random tamer with 2 direwolves and a bear just snacks me.

Two options for this: Either the pets are about lvl 40 max and do about 5dmg per hit or the person you fought (if it was indeed one tamer) is somehow cheating.

 

[Sally]

You are kinda fast with throwing around you are delusional when I think you don't really understand what pets bring to the table and what not.

2 issues with pets as I see them.
1st no stamina, they should have some sort of range how far they can chase
2nd ritual horses having way more HP and Stam than living one's for whatever reason

But just some scenarios where I think you are just making a buzz about non critical issues with pets. Let's take 1v1 situations as you keep hammering on them and like most fights outside dungeon are not on foot let's pretend it doesn't start on foot.

1. Mage tamer vs MA. Basically an MA can shoot 2-3 times while a tamer can heal himself or the pet once. An MA can easily keep the pressure on the pet or the mage. The mage is an easy hit as he can't move the horse while casting. Is the pet tanky you focus the mage if you lose this setup you basically just where not good. Like all MA have healing but in this setup they hardly would need it. You say MA is broken because of healing but well you mix and match what fits and currently there is just no pure archer archetype that works... I tried long ago and thought wtf meta this will work... It did not

2. MA with pets vs MA. Basically only feasible with ritualism and there is definitely the benefit of horses having higher HP than living ones. An issue with ritualism but not pets in general. The combat pet will chase you for no real gain. Whoever is on the ground without a horse first dies. If one of them uses a bear or Molva the one with the horse has the benefit to retreat more easily, use it.

3. Tamer vs footie. If caught in open field with mount fighting sure you got a problem like if an MA got ya. Still if you wear something above bone tissue a pet deals like 10 dmg on you, sure whoever is mounted can pull back heal and come back but you bandage also...also while you fight the pet it's not like you are hit from the player non stop as this is no easy task. This setup would take forever and there is plenty of time to move around, you basically also should have a bow, chances are good you will get the pet and that you just chase of the mage with a bow.


But oh well in the end I'll stop here because my guess is this is still mostly about someone complaining that he gets hit for to much in bone tissue stuff and no arguments will change that you want to ride around with cheap stuff clapping someone in steel with ease.

"The mage is an easy hit"

I'm sorry but, have you used archery before? There are no "easy hits" in archery unless they're standing perfectly still or your targets is so big you can't miss.

Archers miss more than they hit across the board. How do i know this? Because i've been shot at by MANY archers. I've had five archers shooting at me before, and i've hardly moved and they literally could not hit me. You don't need to be able to move much to render archery near useless.

And please don't tell me "skill issue". It isn't a skill issue, the arrows move too slowly and you have to be able to see the future to land them due to their speed. you can visibly see them coming and avoid them unless you're literally pressed into the target, at which point they can just earthquake you off the horse. An aware target should not be dying to an archer of any kind when on foot, so can we please rule out this "Just shoot the mage 3 times!".

Am i saying it is impossible? No. I'm saying it isn't realistic. You're not factoring in just how bad archery is at dealing with people on foot; and it is VERY bad, believe me.

Yes, shoot the smallest height underweight dex mage whilst they're shuffling back and forth on the spot whilst you're on something that is moving, and your projectiles move so slow they can visibly sidestep them.

An arrow to draw distance, which is the longest range shot with an arrow, takes 5-6 seconds. Do you realize how slow that is? It means to have an unavoidable shot, you have to stand within a few metres of the target. Like, far closer range than a hitscan mage spell.

Archery is easy to use against pets because they have momentum to their movement when someone is riding them. Momentum means you can realistically predict where they'll be when you shoot your arrow. Movement on foot has no momentum, and so it is difficult to predict where they'll be if they're aware you're shooting at them, because they're not just going to stand still.

 

[Jackdstripper]

A one button, set-it-and-forget-it, damage dealing mechanic that puts out enough dps to kill even well geared fighters is just plain wrong.
I dont care what the argument is. All other damaging mechanics in this game require carefully aiming every shot, reflex blocking, judging range, careful maneuvering, situational awareness, timing counters, juggling cooldowns, keeping distance, managing stamina or mana, avoiding friendly fire, and much much more.

Or you can just press one button and watch your pet destroy….

Completely moronic mechanic.pets should not be this strong.

 

[Tiroides]

A one button, set-it-and-forget-it, damage dealing mechanic that puts out enough dps to kill even well geared fighters is just plain wrong.

This is not how it works. I think we should first establish some common ground basis. I would paste my numbers but I don't want to be called names, so please indulge me:

- What is a well geared fighter and how much damage do you think a pet like, say a 125 brown bear, would do against him?
- What is the fighter doing while the pet hits him?

 

[Emdash]

If they just stood there and tried to heal it, sure, it would eventually die because they'd run out of mana. But we all know that in most scenarios, a tamer is probably going to try and dismount you whilst you're shooting their pet. Horses are also very easy to kill too. If say, it was an arcane archer? Then they're also on the clock as their mana will run out too, eventually.

But yes, i agree. If pets had limitations to balance them, instead of just being a hard upgrade from lower level pets, that would be better. It should be about choosing the right pet for the situation. A tamer should have to actually think.

with great sadness, I specced off a weapon skill to turn Maltie into a tru arcane archer. One who can actually use magic. I had to drop all of my ground stuff, stances, endurance, armor training... my int was enough that I think I could mage on the ground, tho, so that's cool. Arcane Archer is an extremely broken build for transporting/roaming IF you understand how to not get dismounted + don't care about killing people once you dismount them. It should really not be possible. I have split my points super hard, but I am pretty sure an arcane archer that can throw out more than a few heals would not be able to hold a pet. I've seen archers with corrupt and such, but never seen one with legit heals and a pet. Maybe with trinkets it would be possible.

I guess I could see it working if they didn't take max MA stuff. I got some beast mastery just because of how OP spur on was before the change. It's basically an invincible build unless you fuck up like popping your spur on at the wrong time or w/e, forgetting to 4th speed (lol legit came back to the game and forgot to use 4th speed, sad life.) I'd still need herding and cc to hold a decent pet.

I feel there def needs to be a mounted beast mastery skill, too, but I think being on a mount and having a pet is more broken than AA because you can likely survive just about anything AND kill people on the ground. You should not be able to stack pets. You should get 1, including the one you ride. And it should have a purpose, but the purpose should not be killing people haha. Let them do dmg in pve if that's what it is, but they should have a damage nerf in pvp. People don't understand how fast dps can rise when you have 3 pets attacking you every 1.5 seconds even if they are hitting you for less than 10. There's no other mechanic, as said, that can apply that level of pressure, and the fact that you don't have to do anything after you target is nutso.

People act like everyone runs around in steel, but the people who are getting petted are the ones who know if they put on a steel set they'd just get zerged and lose it anyway. You should be able to break free from pets. They should have stam. Their damage is too high.

Start with ONE pet for ground people and then balance it. You might even be able to make it do damage then.

 

[Jackdstripper]

This is not how it works. I think we should first establish some common ground basis. I would paste my numbers but I don't want to be called names, so please indulge me:

- What is a well geared fighter and how much damage do you think a pet like, say a 125 brown bear, would do against him?
- What is the fighter doing while the pet hits him?

A well geared fighter would be in medium tier armour like steel or comparable.
A brown bear should do 5 to 10 damage and should have slow attacks that you can see and parry. Most importantly the bear should be slow (especially if armoured) and should never be able to chase a full sprinting vheela while doing damage. There needs to be balance. If the pet is very tanky then he shouldn't be dealing high damage and shouldnt be fast. If its fast it shouldn't be tanky. If it hits hard it should be relatively easy to parry.
If you have multiple pets they should be very weak (this includes walkers by the way).

The majority of the damage should still come from the tamer, and the pet should be additional dps, not main dps.

There is no balance right now, and pets have high hp, good damage, can chase forever, and you can even ride some of the most OP ones. Worst of all you can send them to attack while being mounted EVEN while riding in the back of someone else's horse ( this is completely busted btw). No one else can do anything while riding shotgun…but tamers can. Why?

 

[Backpackface]

If pets didn't perma die they could scale back there effectiveness while also making taming/training pets less aids for the tamer

 

[Jackdstripper]

If pets didn't perma die they could scale back there effectiveness while also making taming/training pets less aids for the tamer

I would much rather they bring back levelling service at stables instead of pets that respawn. I do agree that levelling pets it a totally brain dead and needlessly frustrating mechanic.

 

[Tiroides]

A well geared fighter would be in medium tier armour like steel or comparable.
A brown bear should do 5 to 10 damage and should have slow attacks that you can see and parry.

This is exactly how it works right now:

With BM at 100, a level 125 bear does around 10 damage against steel. Its attacks are slow-ish, clearly telegraphed and easy to parry. If you further reduce their damage, they would do absolute 0s against high-end armors.

Most importantly the bear should be slow (especially if armoured) and should never be able to chase a full sprinting vheela while doing damage.

I agree with the chasing part, not so much with their slow-ness. In MO1 pets were slow and easy to kite. They could easily be avoided during combats and as a consequence nobody used them. I think tweaking speed is a bad way of balancing combat, not just for the pets.

There needs to be balance. If the pet is very tanky then he shouldn't be dealing high damage and shouldnt be fast. If its fast it shouldn't be tanky. If it hits hard it should be relatively easy to parry.

If footies can be scaled up from bone tissue until oghmium, the pets should too. That's the healthy way of balancing such playstile. When you see someone with a 125 pet what you need to understand is that he prob has spent 200 to 800 gold in a setup who can be griefed out by a naked with a longbow.

If you have multiple pets they should be very weak (this includes walkers by the way).

Yes, I agree with that.

 

[azezal]

Get on a horse and shoot arrows at the enemy. No pet, not even a panther will catch you unless you want it to. This suggests pets are actually too weak if a panther can't catch a rider in heavy armor on a horse with heavy armor. (i know player armor does not effect mount speed. But in real life it does)

 

[Emdash]

I wondered for a sec after my arcane archer post... can you do MA from pets? lol.

Riding pets and pet armor are bad for balance. Mount armor makes sense because it affects speed and a lot of the mounted game is based on what sort of armor you put on your mount, probably even more so now that you can go infinite third.

A pet like a bear should be dealing true damage, more like blunt. But in the end, 'reality' is not a good benchmark.

It's like it was spoken about in the other thread about how the game needs to be more of a sandbox than a gankbox, well, the irony is PETS are the master of gankbox level gameplay now. You get a flock of terror birds and you can grief just about anyone.

The fact that they are not as useful vs geared people or in team fights is not really relevant. That's not how they are used, either.

It makes no sense that they went in on pets to the point of making it so you can ride them and armor them. They definitely have a large tamer population, but it's a joke.

They should go raw sim ant to where if you are a beast master you can go inside your pets and control them lool. You can just sit in town while you roam as your pet. At least then it would be able to be somewhat balanced!

 

[Xenom]

I think maybe original they had the plan that beast mastery would be the way so you have limited resources you can use with a pet in the form of focus and with it they would be strong which would be OK as it involves aiming the skills and costs a lot of points that limit you on other things. It's cool to have a game with pets but I also think in a skill based game also pets should involve skill of the player. The mechanics are there but it's just half baked.

The problem is BM skills are mostly useless and in the end don't really change a lot. On the other hand there is risen pets that cost little points to get, don't require you to use any skills on pets and are too effective in comparison. As someone who also had risen pets for quite some time I think they should be balanced as the pets that are more an annoyance than a real threat while pets where you have to use skills on the targets should be stronger overall.

So while currently pets are useless on melees because like already stated a level 125 brown bear does around 10 dmg on someone even in reptile or heavy carapace, are super easy to parry and also get hit for 70+ in armor and not really any more with BM skills they are decent on mages when they don't use atrophy.

In the end a pet takes mostly more time and effort than hearing up in somewhat decent armor and yet the skills there are that involve the player to act are mostly useless.

I also wish they would add pet leveling in the equerry like there so much stupid afk standing around leveling them it's insane.

 

[azezal]

Apart from BM giving a 25% damage bonus to pet damage, it's also useful for any mounted build since it allows your horse to regain focus much faster, so you can use spur on much more often to regain stamina, hence being able to use 4th gear a lot more.

 

[Sally]

Get on a horse and shoot arrows at the enemy. No pet, not even a panther will catch you unless you want it to. This suggests pets are actually too weak if a panther can't catch a rider in heavy armor on a horse with heavy armor. (i know player armor does not effect mount speed. But in real life it does)

Only works on trash pets. You aren't hitting someone on foot consistently from mount at anywhere outside of close range, which you won't be in because you'll have to keep moving to avoid the pet. Shoot the pet? They heal it. Meanwhile they're attacking you on your horse with whatever ranged options they have, maybe they use a bow, and of course, foot archery counters mounted archery.

Mounted archers do low damage. Anything in armor is just getting healed up. You're not killing some tank pet as a mounted archer. They could walk to the nearest town before you take out a molva.

 

[MK Player]

Apart from BM giving a 25% damage bonus to pet damage, it's also useful for any mounted build since it allows your horse to regain focus much faster, so you can use spur on much more often to regain stamina, hence being able to use 4th gear a lot more.

Beast Master does not improve 25% damage! it just unlocks the skills, your information is incorrect.

 

[Rhias]

Beast Master does not improve 25% damage! it just unlocks the skills, your information is incorrect.

I was actually wondering the same thing a few months ago and tested it myself.
The result was that it does indeed add somwehre between 25% and 30% damage to auto attacks.

 

[SirTexasSir]

Should be able to throw some scooby snacks on the ground to deter the pet or something for a time, that'd be a nice CC counter, you'd just have to remember to always have them on you.

This would prob work on my big dumb Thursar too.

 

[SirTexasSir]

Beast Master does not improve 25% damage! it just unlocks the skills, your information is incorrect.

It scales off your BM level, to get the 25% more damage you need 100 BM. Just having it unlock will give you nothing. So your info is wrong.

 

[Philocypher]

There are some pets that are out-of-balance.
That isn't to say that they are too powerful but they are too cheap.

But, let's just take a molva at market value. 50-150g, right? max level it and that's a 200-300g pet. Put 100g armor on it. mage kit is 10g...

You're going up against someone who invested 400-500g in his kit and you can cheese in a player structure and make it worthless or less than worthless...