Oh my god, fix the crime system, please god
- Thread starter Lurch
- Start date
The devs have already stated that they plan to rework parcels (currently the only way to get standing), add new ways to get stand, and add more task to task mangers beside parcels. I think the issue isn't how the system works right now, I think the issue is that its clearly not finished. We'll have to see how it turns out when they finish revamping task mangers and add more ways to earn standing.
Rep isn't just the PKrs problem though.
It won't help because the whole idea is flawed. Without forced wardecs - and i suspect SV intends to keep it this way - anyone slightly interested in PvP in any form has to do the stupid tasks. It doesn't matter if there's 100 variations of those tasks - i shouldn't be forced to run them if i'm not an RPK.
Everyone who is a victim of a system which is unable to understand context is a PeeKayer and Greeefer.
Its the common theme to break a system on purpose and not fix it for months. Cant wait for it to happen in persistance for some one to tell me its OK they devs will unbreak it in a couple of patches.
The game already had a working system with full gameplay loop to help people get rep back 2 patches ago. People should complain, devs fault the system is broken when it didnt have to be.
Its the common theme to break a system on purpose and not fix it for months. Cant wait for it to happen in persistance for some one to tell me its OK they devs will unbreak it in a couple of patches.
yep and the people who grief love to do that cuz it is like us farming mats except they are farming grief points. lol. Like I said people who doth protest against the broken-ness of thepvp flag system/rep are generally blues who hide behind their flag sometimes. People who want pvp on their terms. There are a few people who are truly like "I would never kill a dude and loot them." I was like that in MO1; I don't think I'm like that now. It's massive stress to live the way because you are just waiting to be a victim, even if you are good, haha. That's like everyone says wait til someone attacks you, it's like uh... wat. If I know someone is a dick, I'm not gonna wait.
I mean, I'm not overly worried about looking around me all the time to see who is coming, so if they come hit me first then they got the first hit and we can fight then, but in terms of actual pvp, yea I'll say hit me to people who are acting like they want to pvp cuz I want to stay in town til they flesh out jungle camp, and I haven't done any parcel runs YET but I probably will have to. Cuz I mean I've already killed people who were attacking my friends or whatever. And I lose rep it's like h'ok. Makes no sense.
I still maintain that the game would be more balanced if they massively removed restrictions on pvp, what you think will happen won't. People will be like that, but they will go to certain spots, you can't hold the whole map, and some guilds who are blue or at least purport to be will attempt to keep their area clean. I'm not saying nonsense like REMOVE GUARDS but you need some wiggle room to handle your own biz. That's why I said in my thread (ahem!) https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/another-try-repsystem.3769/
let people not res who are neg rep, then let people be local grey. I'm not mad at being local grey outside of town. That's fair. Cuz if you are in your spot you still got people to get your back. So you get less of the dudes running away and coming back blue haha. Like I said it's def a system that you can learn to exploit, but if that's your gameplay loop you need more excitement in your life. People have to use pvp for good just as much as they have to use it for grief. It's just a natural fact, and by heavily restricting the pvp you make it so all the pvpers are gonna wanna join guilds w/ keeps and they can do whatever they want, or ally with keep guilds. And that's BG, like what's his name said... nut cupping.
Maybe I'm biased cuz I'm a solo but I really still think the game starts at the bottom. Give the bottom people the same tools that keep guilds have. Holding a keep has a lot of advantages, being able to pvp whenever you want IMO should not be one. It's gonna stifle diversity. Small groups of people made the game fun imo, unknown variables.
At least make sure the parcels work, its the only way to really get standing and atm its not even giving out the standing for me when i do em. Literally dont wanna risk playing because if i accidentally drop one more standing point ill have to reroll to be able to walk into the towns i play in. Pretty ridiculous.
They did, but after clear testing that alternative way was too effective. RPK guilds were able to go from 5 to 75 standing in only a few hours thus the reason why they removed it. You also need to keep in mind that right now the game is clearly in an unfinished beta state pre judging how a system or systems work when they clearly aren't finished an the devs already plan to change them is a waste of time. Until we see how the game works on launch we really can't say if the system is shit or good, because we have the frame work of the feature not the full feature. What we can do is voice feedback on what we believe as players works or would like to see when the devs do return to finishing the feature.
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The idea behind forced wardec works great on paper because on paper both sides are on an even playing field and fight each other, but there many issue with forced wardec that quickly make the system flawed. Firstly what to stop a stronger guild with more players from wardecing a weaker guild with less players an just camping them at towns all day? Second if they implement a high cost for decing other guilds an have that cost increase the longer the dec last well what to stop people from making multiple guilds that they switch their players between to keep the wardec cost cheap? Third should wardec allow you to kill players in protected towns an why? If no than whats the point of the wardec system? Iif yes than why should one guild be allowed to physically prevent a whole guild from being allowed to play the game?
Forced wardec systems aren't easy to balance bring in a massive amount of questions to the table an can easily just ruin the game for weaker guilds. In EVE Online forced wardecs needed to be removed, because in EVE the bigger guilds would literally find out what station the weaker guilds players were in an they would literally just station camp you 24/7 all day. This made playing the game physically impossible and left you as the weaker guild the only option of just closing the game an not playing it for hours than hoping the stronger guild leaves you a lone sooner or later.
Game isnt even beta its a alpha and wont be beta for at most a year from now after it launches.
The old system was more complete but they removed it because every other guard change didnt get their desired result. This new system hurts everyone just like all the guard changes hurt everyone. Just SV not learning and being out of touch. All SV knows how to do is double down and make the situation worse for everyone.
They are more so un developing the game in some aspects. And have to go back to refix mistakes they made months ago like when they made the hunger/reserve system.
Plenty of feedback occurs constantly and it really is spotty if they listen. Its less about if you make a compelling case and prove your point and more into how the devs whim if they listen. Took 4 patches for lighting to be adjusted because devs ignored feedback about how it hurt people to play the game until henrik talked to a streamer in that streamers chat. No matter what people posted or told Henrik he just didnt care and said that people liked it.
The system is just objectively bad but SV will most likely abandon their PvPers which are the dedicated player base who was here from the start and makes the most player driven content for some people who sit in town all day. Even then what ever doubling down method they choose will hurt everyone not Just PvPers.
SV is trying to protect people who dont have a good mentality and wont last in this game. At the end of the day the game is less good.
Except every PROPER PvP MMORPG has them and it's much less flawed than the makeshift alliance system we have now.
Limited wardec slots / prohibitive costs / whatever. Again, this all was figured out millena ago.
Nice long cooldown on switching guilds, for example. Community making fun of you, too.
Because that's one way to fight zerg guilds - to deny them the guardzone.
You don't loose reputation fighting someone you're at war with.
You can still play the game, though. Move to another town, negotiate surrender, find allies (who can force war on your enemies now), whatever. Again, this worked before and this should work now.
None of this is an issue.
Half of your answers work in an ideal world but we don't live in an ideal world, the other half don't even relate or make sense to what I posted.
"Limited wardec slots" Has does limiting how many guilds you can dec prevent stronger guilds from decking weaker guilds exactly?
"Nice long cooldown on switching guilds" Why should we implement massive CD on switching guilds? This mass CD on joining and leaving a guild is a very disliked feature in other games, so we should add it here because it the only solution to a very questionable mechanic that not even in the game?
"Community making fun of you, too." IDK how this relates to anything I posted this is just you projecting a personal hatred toward me as if everyone shares your opinion of me. IDK what I did to you that makes you feel the need to be so disrespectful, an spiteful.
"Because that's one way to fight zerg guilds - to deny them the guardzone." How does allowing players to freely kill each other in protected towns work against the stronger guilds? If anything this would punish weaker guilds.
"You don't loose reputation fighting someone you're at war with. " Wanting a feature/mechanic added to the game so you can by pass another feature/mechanic you don't like isn't really an optimal solution if anything you may as well just be asking the devs to remove the feature/mechanic your trying to by pass.
"You can still play the game, though. Move to another town, negotiate surrender" in ideal world this could work, but we don't live in an ideal world. It a fact that people like to make personal vendetta against others (especially over the most childish things like dying to them in a video game) an to target people associated with the person they have a vendetta against. Even if the weaker guild moves to a different town what to stop the stronger guild with a vendetta against them from following them to the other town?
It doesn't but it prevents it from being that much of a problem. There is much more weak guilds than there are strong guilds, and a big guild will have to choose their targets more carefully. And there isn't much to gain for a zerg from wardeccing a 10-men group. I'm leading a very small group of mostly newbies myself, we don't have a single veteran player and constantly being wiped by almost everyone, AND we still want wardecs to be forced.
Literally never seen anyone complaining about CD on switching guilds. Lots of complaints about consensual wardecs in this game though.
Oh. You probably misunderstood. I don't know you and sure as hell don't hate you. "Community making fun of you" wasn't aimed at YOU, i merely wanted to say that a guild that cares about it's reputation wouldn't do things like that. Not every guild cares for reputation of course, but many do.
You underestimate how much damage a small tight knit community with a crappy equipment can do to a zerg. Think terrorism. Zergs thrive on constant influx of newbies and you won't get many if your members are constantly slaughtered in the guardzone. Try wardeccing a bigger guild now and see what happens. They will DECLINE because they understand this. They also tend to have a lot of enemies. Smaller guilds are weaker in a sense that they can't defend their property like houses and strongholds, but otherwise they do just fine in a big world like Nave.
It's not trying to bypass anything though. With limited wardecs you can't just wardec the entire game's population so it won't work for RPK so well. People involved in legit warfare however shouldn't be punished by a system designed to limit RPK.
Again, forced wardecs worked fine in the past in other games. There are problems but they're nothing compared to the absurd situation we have now. Rename "war declaration" to "propose an alliance" without really changing anything about how it works and suddenly this game that boasts about how hardcore and PvP-focused it is has NO WARDEC SYSTEM WHATSOEVER. This is so cringe i can't believe it.
I still kinda dislike the in town aspect of warfare. I do think it's unfair. I mean, I guess that could be the consensual part? Force and then if dudes wanna go all in the say TOWNS TOO. WAT U TOO WEAK TO TAKE IT ALL THE WAY BUD??
They flesh out jungle camp, they can turn Toxai into a legit red town, and you pretty much have enough non GZ places on the map. If pvping in the GZ made you local grey so other people who were citizens could attack you, that might be fair, but regardless of what happened beforehand, I've only seen people getting hard camped in the GZ. If you wanna do something, hold them in the GZ and siege their stuff. They deserve a chance to build up and rezerg imo. lol. I dunno why people are so mad at zergs when basically the whole core of open world pvp is zerging. That's why people build alliances. But zerging the GZ is kinda wack.
Beyond that, forcing wardecs is no thang. But I think people deserve the chance to re-gear and stuff. It might benefit you guys vs bigger guilds, but in a lot of cases, it's gonna get guilds that aren't really ready griefed out of the game, and I dunno how I feel about that. Or get extorted (surrender.) If you have someone stuck in the GZ or logged out, I think you have done enough, let the next encounter be the next encounter. Could even add a momentary cooldown like "truce" timer if both sides accepted and give a chance to regear, even that would be better. Playing out of the GZ and playing in an open pvp spot is just way different. In a red spot you'd go in and clear it out then craft and fill your banks, or slowly traffic things in, but in the GZ I don't think many guilds really have that mindset. If anything, that's the one 'hardcore' mechanic they should remove. They should open the rest up tho. A LOT. They made all types of things easier, why didn't they make pvp easier, especially when both parties are into it. There's not a duel system. There's no way to flag "open pvp" so people can just fight without loss.
They flesh out jungle camp, they can turn Toxai into a legit red town, and you pretty much have enough non GZ places on the map. If pvping in the GZ made you local grey so other people who were citizens could attack you, that might be fair, but regardless of what happened beforehand, I've only seen people getting hard camped in the GZ. If you wanna do something, hold them in the GZ and siege their stuff. They deserve a chance to build up and rezerg imo. lol. I dunno why people are so mad at zergs when basically the whole core of open world pvp is zerging. That's why people build alliances. But zerging the GZ is kinda wack.
Beyond that, forcing wardecs is no thang. But I think people deserve the chance to re-gear and stuff. It might benefit you guys vs bigger guilds, but in a lot of cases, it's gonna get guilds that aren't really ready griefed out of the game, and I dunno how I feel about that. Or get extorted (surrender.) If you have someone stuck in the GZ or logged out, I think you have done enough, let the next encounter be the next encounter. Could even add a momentary cooldown like "truce" timer if both sides accepted and give a chance to regear, even that would be better. Playing out of the GZ and playing in an open pvp spot is just way different. In a red spot you'd go in and clear it out then craft and fill your banks, or slowly traffic things in, but in the GZ I don't think many guilds really have that mindset. If anything, that's the one 'hardcore' mechanic they should remove. They should open the rest up tho. A LOT. They made all types of things easier, why didn't they make pvp easier, especially when both parties are into it. There's not a duel system. There's no way to flag "open pvp" so people can just fight without loss.
