Noticing a trend

Albanjo Dravae

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Dec 20, 2021
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I can get with that. The dundeons were way better than the store bought assets they have now. I love how Henrik in stream was showing it off like they made the New dungeon. I guess when you click the buy button, it’s a new milestone in gaming.
Oof oof not long ago people was completly hyped by UE4, the game graphix and shit. Little they know It's all generic assets and then you see Henrique streaming 2 meters per hour graveyard walkers getting kaput by necromancy explosions. Dungeons are meh, all the stuff they had was a good starting point to keep going, not shit to copypaste, and not even that cuz they copied a lot of shitty stuff.
 
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Ladupes

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Jan 30, 2022
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Oof oof not long ago people was completly hyped by UE4, the game graphix and shit. Little they know It's all generic assets and then you see Henrique streaming 2 meters per hour graveyard walkers getting kaput by necromancy explosions. Dungeons are meh, all the stuff they had was a good starting point to keep going, not shit to copypaste, and not even that cuz they copied a lot of shitty stuff.
Even the streams are unreal bad.
Hes just there summoning static pets on random locatiom and not interacting with everything.

Wanna see another SV incongruence?
All this talk we having here would be perma ban and deleted on their discord.
What does it tell us? Either they dont monitor the forum or theres separate rules for everything. Classic SV.

but hey kudos to them, they got me spending 3 accs before i realized this is not going too far.
GG Henrik, u won
 

Albanjo Dravae

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Dec 20, 2021
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Even the streams are unreal bad.
Hes just there summoning static pets on random locatiom and not interacting with everything.

Wanna see another SV incongruence?
All this talk we having here would be perma ban and deleted on their discord.
What does it tell us? Either they dont monitor the forum or theres separate rules for everything. Classic SV.

but hey kudos to them, they got me spending 3 accs before i realized this is not going too far.
GG Henrik, u won
Forums not being moderated a lot cuz they never really did. But yes they prob have Robmo to read the forums and pass through whatever he thinks or a handfull of people thinks Is good feedback.
Their discord Is poop, I have been banned for years from that shit. They don't care for people's feedback at all thats the message.
I don't wanna be a negative bitch but necro seemed terribly off on that stream. It doesn't mean anything to me Henrique streams shit tier pets exploting, woah so cool.
 

Albanjo Dravae

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I think we've all gotten our moneys worth, and I don't think SV is really a crooked company or anything. For example, they definitely are not in the camp of MMO shyster pipedream devs like the Chronicles of Elyria people, or something like that. In fact, like most people here to some degree, I really like SV as a game developer, and like you're saying, love what they're trying to do... The only problem is, and you hear it time and again because it's true, the delivery-- and I'd even be more specific and say the 'project management'/'directorship' end of the operation.

It's completely understandable that people question the vision of development at this point when so much of what should be the core gameplay features of the game remain unfinished, unrefined or completely unimplemented, and it seems like the main priority is always pumping out new content. Even just considering that they decided to go with the official launch at a time when the core of the game was obviously incomplete, and the servers couldn't even come close to accommodating the playerbase... Or, when you consider these same server issues that they allowed to fester until pops fizzled out without making any executive action to correct the situation-- which could have been as simple as standing up more servers ASAP, even if it meant merging later.


The fact that the management/assessment skills just aren't there should be pretty evident. Archery isn't even fully implemented, for example, and instead we are getting necromancy. Clade-gift trees are not implemented, yet we are hearing talk about sailing...? Many core features regarding PvP are obviously unfinished, or if they are finished should be evidently unacceptable to development and be reworked entirely, and instead we get some half-hearted bounty-hunting feature to work within that unacceptable framework...?

So, yeah, definitely agree that people are real downers here, and I do think almost everyone on these forums have gotten their $50 worth and then some-- but as far as being pessimistic about the trajectory of the game, as an IP and standalone MMORPG, that much is understandable. Personally, I bought in knowing that SV has questionable project management skills from MO1, so I'm not really sore about it-- just wish they would look at core things and get the core features of the game in good shape before moving on, but again, can't say I'm surprised.

It's too bad they don't have better project management skills. For example, they could start with just an arena map beta where you load-out with maxed skills in various stuff w/ whatever armor & weapons, focus on just combat and just implementing combat, making sure everything in terms of combat is balanced and fun and fully implemented from a 'core' standpoint before moving on... Then, implement your PvP mechanics, do rounds of testing just on the flagging/rep etc., see how it fits into the picture... Then, work on fleshing out the world, implement all your points of interest, cities, crafting etc... Get that done and working as a holistic system on its own... Then, you can start working on server stress testing, and TC & sieging and that type of thing... Each step of this ideally should be within an open or closed alpha/beta window, and shouldn't be over as a phase until the mechanics being looked at are fine-tuned to where they should be, and everything surrounding them is implemented enough to provide a holistic system... That's the ideal way to move forward development of a game as complex as an MMORPG without ending up with a mosaic of half-implemented features & systems that do not complement one another.

Instead it seems like development has a 'everything everywhere all at once' philosophy, and nothing ever gets any polish, while things that obviously should be implemented by official launch are still not implemented 6 months hence... Instead you have too many half-implemented mechanics, and basically systems that don't work in a holistic framework because most of the time they aren't even fully implemented. You have systems that obviously did not get the kind of oversight they needed, nor the attention given to their ramifications on gameplay, because frankly they were just 'tested' live. Just standing up a test server and approaching development from a 'one holistic system at a time' approach could do so much for the trajectory of the game, but I doubt we will ever see it.


Still, I 100% understand getting tired of all the bitching and moaning on the forums, as it does get hard on the head... Because, the game is fun, and I do think we've all easily gotten our moneys worth at this juncture-- but it just feels bad that no system within what is ostensibly a sandbox pvp MMORPG ever gets the attention it deserves, and instead it's always on to some new shiny thing. Sandbox MMORPGs need dynamic interplaying systems to work; and for these dynamic systems to interplay properly, the care has to be taken to implement mechanics fully and to the desired gameplay loop and player interaction... And obviously many people don't feel that care is being taken.
In MO1 they made at some point a "testing team" that was a joke, it was only intended for certain players to get first hand information about grinding places and new content information people that wasnt in the team couldnt access.
It was supposed to be a group of players that gave their feedback about content. But that never worked as intended and ended up being another shady way for people to access info prior content release. A shame really, i will never understand how much criteria they lacked doing stuff like that. Im sure if they have a small player testing crew they wouldn't even announce it due to their already known fame to be careless and negligent with the community.

SV can't obviously test shit by themselves, It's mind blowing they don't have a fresh wipe open testing server with límited testing content for people to feedback. Dude everything they do Is half way done idk how Is it they don't see that. Do they really think the game Is Gucci?
 
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ashshfsjhkdkk

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Mar 21, 2022
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OP you're not going to win this one.

Being a new player, and wanting this game to work, it took me about maybe 2 months of following development and watching the streams and the corresponding action to realize there is either a major discrepancy between what is being said by SV or they are just outright misrepresenting the truth on purpose.

They will NEVER listen to the player base who will improve the game and the core that is left is completely brain dead and think things are fine.

We have been citing issues for months, I've heard H literally say some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard on stream.

They made enough money out of people like me to keep the game afloat for the dwindling 600 or less folks who support their delusional state of a game so they never have to actually look inward at themselves, or the game itself.
 
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Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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OP you're not going to win this one.

Being a new player, and wanting this game to work, it took me about maybe 2 months of following development and watching the streams and the corresponding action to realize there is either a major discrepancy between what is being said by SV or they are just outright misrepresenting the truth on purpose.

They will NEVER listen to the player base who will improve the game and the core that is left is completely brain dead and think things are fine.

We have been citing issues for months, I've heard H literally say some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard on stream.

They made enough money out of people like me to keep the game afloat for the dwindling 600 or less folks who support their delusional state of a game so they never have to actually look inward at themselves, or the game itself.


yea all they'd need to do is change things a little. The game is never gonna be truly balanced or fair so fuck it. Make it play right.

I think they eventually listen if you keep bitching. It's just a lot of sides have multiple people bitching.
 

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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yea all they'd need to do is change things a little. The game is never gonna be truly balanced or fair so fuck it. Make it play right.

I think they eventually listen if you keep bitching. It's just a lot of sides have multiple people bitching.

I think fixing things would take A LOT of effort TBH. But simple changes in the right direction would instill a lot of faith. I think the reason the community is as upset as it is, there are a lot of little things they could do to improve the game fairly quickly and it's just not happening. If I saw evidence that someone who knows what they're doing is steering the ship, I'd start being more charitable in my opinion on the state of the game.
 

Jatix

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Sep 30, 2020
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I've noticed almost all of the streamers that have called it quits are people who do nothing but PvP.

No crafting, no PvE'ing, no roleplaying, no adventuring, no imagination, no content creation other than purely going around killing anyone and everyone with no real rhyme or reason other than to do just that (not saying that I don't support this type of gameplay, I most definitely do).
My thought as someone who played MO1 for years, is that once you have played for a while, MO's pve experience is so weak. Ride in circles on your MA killing mobs, ride to town, repeat. The crafting system is cool to learn but you dont get a lot of content out of it, you just make gear. You cant just spend hours crafting. So other games do a much better job at being a fun PVE game than MO. If I wanted to farm, grind a character, etc, I'd go play any other mmo.

The 1 place MO shines is its open pvp with looting. Which is why most vets and streamers are here for the pvp. The issue is SV doesnt want the pvp to be good or even happen most of the time. Which is heavily contributing to the game being boring, and people leaving.
 

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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Lots of the newer players are in the honey moon phase because they haven't experienced enough of the game or how SV operates. Over time players tind to lean to the side of being a "hater"

But being a "hater" is just being a realist. Maybe this time they fix the game with the new QA lead. But they spent the last 6-8 months treating their community like trash and ignoring feedback. Their testers are very bad and hide exploits so they can continue to use them, seemingly. You have testers that dont know that you can log out in dungeons still and dont know that you need a weapon to block. I wonder what other common knowledge they lack or are purposefully hiding from the devs.

Beta was a better game period. We are at beta population now but if you made this game more like beta it would probably still be about 1k right now.
Start looking at treating your playerbase better instead of saying condescending things to them when they express their frustrations about aspects of the game and might have more players. Getting mocked by a SV employee when you are struggling with the game as a player that loves the idea but not the execution of mo2 just is a nail in the coffin for your continued playing of the game for many potential players.

Just a lack of respect for the player base and thinking that they are better then the player along with ego is driving this game into the ground.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Lots of the newer players are in the honey moon phase because they haven't experienced enough of the game or how SV operates. Over time players tind to lean to the side of being a "hater"

But being a "hater" is just being a realist. Maybe this time they fix the game with the new QA lead. But they spent the last 6-8 months treating their community like trash and ignoring feedback. Their testers are very bad and hide exploits so they can continue to use them, seemingly. You have testers that dont know that you can log out in dungeons still and dont know that you need a weapon to block. I wonder what other common knowledge they lack or are purposefully hiding from the devs.

Beta was a better game period. We are at beta population now but if you made this game more like beta it would probably still be about 1k right now.
Start looking at treating your playerbase better instead of saying condescending things to them when they express their frustrations about aspects of the game and might have more players. Getting mocked by a SV employee when you are struggling with the game as a player that loves the idea but not the execution of mo2 just is a nail in the coffin for your continued playing of the game for many potential players.

Just a lack of respect for the player base and thinking that they are better then the player along with ego is driving this game into the ground.

I said it before, and I will say it again, and this is what I truly believe. If someone wants to take up the other side of the argument, I challenge them! Keep it civil of course or try, but yea I'd like to hear the other side to this:

First things first MO isn't... a bad game. lol. I mean it's just not. It gets bad after you play it awhile and you know what's happening in the world and know how situations will turn out w/ high certainty due to mechanics (and that's not what you want in sandboxes...), however, AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART: MO1 was Henrik's vision (supposedly??), but even tho the whole dreaming the devs will listen IS a true disorder (tho it does feel nice when devs put shit you suggest in a game,) the 'Indie MMO' is a different type of game. You see, and I say this ESPECIALLY THIS TIME. MO1 was whatever. It was different, different time, but an Indie MMO is more like an investment. It's like our payment is STOCK in the game. Henrik's vision is cool, but even he doesn't think we'd pay to play his vision rofl. Anymore, at least, I hope? We are playing for OUR VISION and we DESERVE IT. OUR MONEY. This is what we have, the core game, devs, our player base, money... simple shit, this is our game. I know nobody thinks that, and that's why it's fucking up atm.

I'd play MO w/ 500-1000 people if they made it good. Man I want better combat SO BAD. Less lag. Better PvE. I mean some of the changes, as I've said before, they can adjust w/ changing numbers straight out. A lot of them, prol.

But yea, we aren't being served this game, esp not the second time around. This isn't take what they give us. Maybe I got scammed and have an entitlement issue, but every Indie MMO I was ever a part of (not too many, but some!), I made sure to make my voice heard. This situation is a bit weird due to how they have 'cut us off,' but that's one thing to always remember: this is OUR GAME. If at any point that simple part is forgotten, pull your money out!

This is def the game I wanna invest in, comparatively. I mean I ran off some rocks and flew into the water with my horse. The horse hit the water like a paper plate and just kinda balanced n swam to the other side. It's like looool. There was a lot of WACK SHIT in mo1, but a lot of the stuff that was 'brutal' or 'challenging' or 'just annoying' also got nerfed. The level of thinking required to play MO moment to moment is way less than it used to be.
 
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Forums not being moderated a lot cuz they never really did. But yes they prob have Robmo to read the forums and pass through whatever he thinks or a handfull of people thinks Is good feedback.
Their discord Is poop, I have been banned for years from that shit. They don't care for people's feedback at all thats the message.
I don't wanna be a negative bitch but necro seemed terribly off on that stream. It doesn't mean anything to me Henrique streams shit tier pets exploting, woah so cool.
Remember when (people) were openly racist, homophobic, and we had porn of the forums. At least they have cleaned it up at bit from the early days.
 
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Albanjo Dravae

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I think fixing things would take A LOT of effort TBH. But simple changes in the right direction would instill a lot of faith. I think the reason the community is as upset as it is, there are a lot of little things they could do to improve the game fairly quickly and it's just not happening. If I saw evidence that someone who knows what they're doing is steering the ship, I'd start being more charitable in my opinion on the state of the game.
True, it would take em a good while to fix shit yet with relatively minor changes would improve considerably. But thats part of the problem, the lack of direction or criteria. SV seems lost and It's like you say if people saw consistently well executed new features people would cut em some slack. Then i see shite like bounty hunter and i realize they cannot really fix a production system they don't have. Idk whos hyped with necro for example, but i know it's going to be incomplete and the things that are still placeholder aint getting addressed either, so it seems the destiny of the game is to be poop.

Next time Henrique streams, the only question i'll be making is why they continue to release placeholder content without fixing the current stuff. He definitely said they don't make placeholder content, go figure.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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True, it would take em a good while to fix shit yet with relatively minor changes would improve considerably. But thats part of the problem, the lack of direction or criteria. SV seems lost and It's like you say if people saw consistently well executed new features people would cut em some slack. Then i see shite like bounty hunter and i realize they cannot really fix a production system they don't have. Idk whos hyped with necro for example, but i know it's going to be incomplete and the things that are still placeholder aint getting addressed either, so it seems the destiny of the game is to be poop.

Next time Henrique streams, the only question i'll be making is why they continue to release placeholder content without fixing the current stuff. He definitely said they don't make placeholder content, go figure.

It seems like they want systems to lead the players into the kind of interaction they led each other into automatically (seeking fights/getting fights) without people getting too upset or forgetting IT'S A GAME. So they made the game way less hardcore basically, and it's like what... that was... wasn't that the whole point of MO? LOL.
 

Albanjo Dravae

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It seems like they want systems to lead the players into the kind of interaction they led each other into automatically (seeking fights/getting fights) without people getting too upset or forgetting IT'S A GAME. So they made the game way less hardcore basically, and it's like what... that was... wasn't that the whole point of MO? LOL.
The game is not less hardcore is just emptier, dumber and more punishing. Which is not precisely hardcore, if they actually wanted to make the game more accesible for newcomers they would have done things to make it easier for people, not increase pvp punishments for example. Their agenda is so unclear they probably have some imbecile vets like people from koto whispering into their hears stuff like "its too easy for murderers" "make it harder, slap me and call me martha".

In MO1 people that didn't knew crafting systems would spend years of gameplay trying to figure out meta recipes and shit, or at least that was the ilussion because people spent several months testing shit just to find out there was 1 meta or systems werent that deep nor challenging in the first place.
Now not even that, theres no hidden recipes for crafting, theres no secrets just plain straightforward literal bullshit.

In MO1 there was such an installed mysticism around the "unknown" that you could tease noobs by telling them things like they would have to be facing north for proper alchemycal extractions.

Its understandable mo2 is building these core foundations but do they really have to be this quality of shit?
 

MolagAmur

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Remember when (people) were openly racist, homophobic, and we had porn of the forums. At least they have cleaned it up at bit from the early days.
Back when the forums had more content than the game.

Oh wait...they still do.
 

Kaquenqos

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May 3, 2022
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In MO1 they made at some point a "testing team" that was a joke, it was only intended for certain players to get first hand information about grinding places and new content information people that wasnt in the team couldnt access.
It was supposed to be a group of players that gave their feedback about content. But that never worked as intended and ended up being another shady way for people to access info prior content release. A shame really, i will never understand how much criteria they lacked doing stuff like that. Im sure if they have a small player testing crew they wouldn't even announce it due to their already known fame to be careless and negligent with the community.

SV can't obviously test shit by themselves, It's mind blowing they don't have a fresh wipe open testing server with límited testing content for people to feedback. Dude everything they do Is half way done idk how Is it they don't see that. Do they really think the game Is Gucci?

Yeah, I'm talking a literal test server that anyone can login and get access to a lot of resources & skills designed to test a specific element. So, say you are testing balancing on PvP skills/builds & flagging/PK mechanics, you allow anyone to log in to this server and set all of their attributes & skills, action & profession, and put up an unlimited resource NPC to craft whatever arms/armor... Then you basically just have everybody running at it for 2weeks to a month or so while testing the changes you have planned. If the changes you have planned are bad, you modify them until they are the desired result... Then you do this for all new content; you can even do it for high end PvE dungeons; have everyone spawn in as described right next to the dungeon you are testing, etc... This way you can also catch major bugs imminent in the patch-- like brokers eating items, loot bags falling through the floor-- as well as find out if something is very obviously not balanced or not fun before you implement it.

Obviously just allowing a small sample of testers is not going to achieve the same results. That's the reason most places don't test their games in house or with a small select few beta-testers. It should be something available to anybody who has an active account. Logistically it might be hard to do, but it's definitely worth it. It's not even unusual in MMORPG development, WoW definitely did it and iirc WAR and others... I know SV doesn't have the same depth of pockets, but again, I think it would pay dividends for them in the long run.
 
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Albanjo Dravae

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Yeah, I'm talking a literal test server that anyone can login and get access to a lot of resources & skills designed to test a specific element. So, say you are testing balancing on PvP skills/builds & flagging/PK mechanics, you allow anyone to log in to this server and set all of their attributes & skills, action & profession, and put up a unlimited resource NPC to craft whatever arms/armor... Then you basically just have everybody running at it for 2weeks to a month or so while testing the changes you have planned. If the changes you have planned are bad, you modify them until they are the desired result... Then you do this for all new content; you can even do it for high end PvE dungeons; have everyone spawn in as described right next to the dungeon you are testing, etc... This way you can also catch major bugs imminent in the patch-- like brokers eating items, loot bags falling through the floor-- as well as find out if something is very obviously not balanced or not fun before you implement it.

Obviously just allowing a small sample of testers is not going to achieve the same results. That's the reason most places don't test their games in house or with a small select few beta-testers. It should be something available to anybody who has an active account. Logistically it might be hard to do, but it's definitely worth it. It's not even unusual in MMORPG development, WoW definitely did it and iirc WAR and others... I know SV doesn't have the same depth of pockets, but again, I think it would pay dividends for them in the long run.
Exacly, thats how an open test server should be. The whole idea of making a space specifically designed for testing would generate certain feedback legitimacy.
But there has to be certain elemental considerations not to just follow the guidelines of a handfull of organized players, such as guilds.

Logistically wouldn't take em much more than setting up a new server with new login and isolated database, npcs that sell horses or gear, considering theres other features to be tested. And for more accurate feedback they could even mention the parameters that need testing during whatever period of time.

But yes all that is something that has to be in place long ago, one of the reasons that model didn't work in MO1 was cuz of the lack of a team that would decide what to be tested and how, so they wouldnt generate any data nor analize, it was poorly administrated.

For a test server to work it would need a proper team in place to decide what to be tested, for how long, in which terms and the bugreport/feedback concept, giving players the general testing guidelines.
And the capacity to archive and sort the data and feedback to hand over to the design team and the dev department.

Idk how SV handles their internal structure but they would have to make radical changes if they want shit to change.

They are lacking to optimize their areas, can't be handling gamebreaking patches without seccond thought, that already cost a lot with criminal punishments for example and if they don't actually have any real analytics and follow their heart and shitty advices the game will continue to go down the toilette.
 
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Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Back when the forums had more content than the game.

Oh wait...they still do.

haha, close call tbh. My Jungle Camp Peace Treaty thread been up since MARCH and it's not very far down guild politics. The lack of people declaring things on forum is a big loss. I'm sure people's individual discords etc are way more active, but this forum man, I'm trying to help. You gotta start an incident report of when people get ganked etc, what guild to blame.

There is no greater testament to the state of this game than the guild politics page. Not one active salty thread, Koto Griefer died, tower of doom Died. Doods don't care. They are out farming trinkz.