Noticing a trend

[m4rt3]

A bit of a rant. I'm stoned and felt like writing some thoughts on the game. I'm still very much enjoying my time even with it's flaws - waiting patiently as the updates will come.
Obviously one of the big discussions going on is population.

I've noticed almost all of the streamers that have called it quits are people who do nothing but PvP.

No crafting, no PvE'ing, no roleplaying, no adventuring, no imagination, no content creation other than purely going around killing anyone and everyone with no real rhyme or reason other than to do just that (not saying that I don't support this type of gameplay, I most definitely do).

When I play a game like MO2, I see a lot of potential within the base platform we are given. I completely understand we are lacking content, end-game features and plenty of bugs/issues still need to be resolved. But I think a large portion of players that have quit are the ones who strictly only seek out PvP of some sort. Whether it be murdering noobs, finding legit fights, griefing or just wanting the action, these types of players aren't going to survive the early days of MO2.

There's also a difference in how a person plays the game depending on their age/gaming history, in my opinion. When I come across people my age (mid 30's) I find the situations rather satisfying and often the reason that reminds me why I play the game. I love PvP and I love the combat, but I'm not rushing into it. I play a good/neutral role and I find that it's more appealing to me to have a disadvantage of getting jumped or attacked, rather than being the attacker. If I win that fight that I didn't even start, I'm going to feel incredible. If I sneak up and murder an innocent blue player who is half dead fighting mobs and he ends up killing me, well, I'm probably going to rage quit because I had the advantage and blew up. I'm more sour now than if I were the one being jumped.

But do people like this really think they're going to stay satisfied? We all know not everyone is cut out for a hardcore full loot mmo like MO2, but it goes to show you that even the people who complain about the population are usually the ones who contributed to losing the little we had. It doesn't matter if MO2 was completely polished or not - if a new player can't even make it out of the graveyard without being harassed to no extent, then the features and content will mean nothing to them anyway.

With all this said, again, I know for a fact MO2 is nowhere near finished or polished to the extent it should/will be.

But I think if the mindset of certain players was shifted a bit, and could realize the game they're playing isn't a battle royale or a game like Chivalry, then they might enjoy other aspects that it can offer (yes I obviously know this is where we all would like more PvE & content in general). I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to just PvP - I get it and I fully support players that just want to do that. I am just saying that the proper content and end-game features are not in play for those players to thrive. Another issue is that the PvE is good but there just isn't enough of it. A lot of people complain the map is too big - to be honest if I could imagine like 2-3 more continents that were filled with 50-100 different types of mobs and items/things to explore etc - I think that would help keep the PvE'ers in game. There's a food chain inside a hardcore full loot mmo. Crafters need PvE'ers to thrive and PvE'ers = PvPer's food. It's just a chain reaction we're seeing. As new players come in and vets murder noobs, the new player leaves and then the griefers/red players have nobody to kill but other vets or guilds with proper skill. This leads to guild war but currently there is no real incentive of war between guilds other than drama, so the guilds fall off.

Incentive incentive incentive. It starts all the way at the bottom and effects everyone at the top. If you can reach one group of players to keep in the game indefinitely for whatever that reason may be, it will likely create a chain reaction. One player always needs another to thrive in a game like this.

Flame on.

 

[Teknique]

The problem is that the studio is unprofessional and it isn't something that can be corrected with time. They don't have proper line of sight on their own game. If enough people complain about something it will get changed with wanton disregard for the overall impact on the game.

When I play a game I want the studio to have some demonstrable talent at designing them. I can forgive bugs if the game play at least looked like it was planned from start to finish. For example fully designed classes that serve specific functions, materials and zones that are designed around the time investment and difficulty required, and actually functional boss AI.

Not to mention nothing is fair right now and a game stops being fun when its stops being fair.

 

[Kaemik]

That's because they have no sense of how their overall game fits together and functions. They're pulling "cool ideas" out of a hat and implementing them. SV seems to have little to no regard for how all the pieces of their game fit together.

 

[m4rt3]

The problem is that the studio is unprofessional and it isn't something that can be corrected with time. They don't have proper line of sight on their own game. If enough people complain about something it will get changed with wanton disregard for the overall impact on the game.

I don't know of any other 'studio' or CEO that does weekly livestreams to answer questions and give updates. If being unprofessional isn't something that can be corrected in time, how is it corrected? Nobody put a gun to your head and made you buy the game. People seem to have forgotten or just maybe were never aware of how a lot of things don't always work out the first time when you're creating something that hasn't been done before.

Henrik is literally trying to create something we all want and crave, this idea of one world and having a thriving economy, intense battles and wonderous adventures to be created. And yet.. there are so many ignorant people that just throw so much hate and disrespect to these guys because it all isn't here NOW, or it isn't done THEIR way. Most, if not all games are never finished or perfect on release. Give it time for Christ's sake. Everybody wants everything NOW.

If the community acted positively and compiled their best ideas together to present, maybe you guys could be heard. But the constant disgust coming from this shitpile of a community, is just going to drag down the spirits of the team. Is it the younger generation that is so desensitized and spoiled? Are you too glued to your AAA multi billion dollar companies that have leaned off of success in a game that caters to all? I'm so sick of these whiny little children.

SV is not perfect, maybe far from it. But I appreciate what they are doing and going against the grain. It's just a shame they have to feel they're going against the grain with their own community.

 

[m4rt3]

That's because they have no sense of how their overall game fits together and functions. They're pulling "cool ideas" out of a hat and implementing them. SV seems to have little to no regard for how all the pieces of their game fit together.

Should they just not try then? You guys say such powerful things with literally no credibility. It's so easy to poke at the holes and issues with the game. But you have not created a game that rivals MO2. So, who's going to do it? Who's going to fail first so the next game can learn from it's mistakes? SV made alot of mistakes, maybe they continue to make more. But they are learning along the way and are even telling you that. They're just trying to make a damn game that they feel will work and there's zero support. Where is the other game that is similar to MO2? Star Citizen? Yeah, that's another game we're all looking forward to. And guess what? If you've played the game at all, especially at launch, you would laugh at the issues they had compared to MO2. Oh.. And by the way they've only had servers that hold up to 50 some players for years. MO2 is holding a lot more than that, isn't it? Server meshing will change the game and I'm really looking forward to SC when that time comes.

 

[Teknique]

I don't know of any other 'studio' or CEO that does weekly livestreams to answer questions and give updates. If being unprofessional isn't something that can be corrected in time, how is it corrected? Nobody put a gun to your head and made you buy the game. People seem to have forgotten or just maybe were never aware of how a lot of things don't always work out the first time when you're creating something that hasn't been done before.

Henrik is literally trying to create something we all want and crave, this idea of one world and having a thriving economy, intense battles and wonderous adventures to be created. And yet.. there are so many ignorant people that just throw so much hate and disrespect to these guys because it all isn't here NOW, or it isn't done THEIR way. Most, if not all games are never finished or perfect on release. Give it time for Christ's sake. Everybody wants everything NOW.

If the community acted positively and compiled their best ideas together to present, maybe you guys could be heard. But the constant disgust coming from this shitpile of a community, is just going to drag down the spirits of the team. Is it the younger generation that is so desensitized and spoiled? Are you too glued to your AAA multi billion dollar companies that have leaned off of success in a game that caters to all? I'm so sick of these whiny little children.

SV is not perfect, maybe far from it. But I appreciate what they are doing and going against the grain. It's just a shame they have to feel they're going against the grain with their own community.

I don't think that you could be anymore wrong. I've been more than fair with them.

I forgave them for every blunder in MO 1 and chalked it up to issues with the engine. The engine isn't an issue yet they have all the same bugs, why? Because they copied their spaghetti code over because they wanted to take shortcuts. Doing the same thing that caused your failure in the first game and repeating it is not a forgivable error, not anymore.

Insisting on one world server when you could have just launched separate servers and no housing, and then merged the servers later. Of course the housing system they did launch was a joke because why would it be anything else but.

Making stupid balancing decisions over and over again. Why should one expect it to change when the person doing the balance doubles down on them.

If he live streams just to say stupid things and demonstrate how much he doesn't get it, or is livestreaming to show new content when the old content is still busted that isn't impressive.

Anyway 5 years ago I probably sounded like you. SV will disappoint you in time don't worry. Maybe in Mortal 3.

With the 2k hours in MO 2 and the 8.5k in MO 1, how much more time do you think I need before my opinion isn't me just wanting it NOW.

 

[Turbizzler]

One day you'll open your eyes and leave the honey moon phase.

It's been over a decade of the same short comings and unfulfilled promises, of course people are going to point out the issues and flaws of MO2's development. Having the same cycle repeating over and over gets tiring and for veterans of the first game, you feel burnt a second time. We see the potential in Mortal and want to see it succeed, hence why people are very vocal about the issues. We want to see it do better, not be a giant puzzle with pieces forced in the wrong spot and forgot about.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

A bit of a rant. I'm stoned and felt like writing some thoughts on the game. I'm still very much enjoying my time even with it's flaws - waiting patiently as the updates will come.
Obviously one of the big discussions going on is population.

I've noticed almost all of the streamers that have called it quits are people who do nothing but PvP.

No crafting, no PvE'ing, no roleplaying, no adventuring, no imagination, no content creation other than purely going around killing anyone and everyone with no real rhyme or reason other than to do just that (not saying that I don't support this type of gameplay, I most definitely do).

When I play a game like MO2, I see a lot of potential within the base platform we are given. I completely understand we are lacking content, end-game features and plenty of bugs/issues still need to be resolved. But I think a large portion of players that have quit are the ones who strictly only seek out PvP of some sort. Whether it be murdering noobs, finding legit fights, griefing or just wanting the action, these types of players aren't going to survive the early days of MO2.

There's also a difference in how a person plays the game depending on their age/gaming history, in my opinion. When I come across people my age (mid 30's) I find the situations rather satisfying and often the reason that reminds me why I play the game. I love PvP and I love the combat, but I'm not rushing into it. I play a good/neutral role and I find that it's more appealing to me to have a disadvantage of getting jumped or attacked, rather than being the attacker. If I win that fight that I didn't even start, I'm going to feel incredible. If I sneak up and murder an innocent blue player who is half dead fighting mobs and he ends up killing me, well, I'm probably going to rage quit because I had the advantage and blew up. I'm more sour now than if I were the one being jumped.

But do people like this really think they're going to stay satisfied? We all know not everyone is cut out for a hardcore full loot mmo like MO2, but it goes to show you that even the people who complain about the population are usually the ones who contributed to losing the little we had. It doesn't matter if MO2 was completely polished or not - if a new player can't even make it out of the graveyard without being harassed to no extent, then the features and content will mean nothing to them anyway.

With all this said, again, I know for a fact MO2 is nowhere near finished or polished to the extent it should/will be.

But I think if the mindset of certain players was shifted a bit, and could realize the game they're playing isn't a battle royale or a game like Chivalry, then they might enjoy other aspects that it can offer (yes I obviously know this is where we all would like more PvE & content in general). I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to just PvP - I get it and I fully support players that just want to do that. I am just saying that the proper content and end-game features are not in play for those players to thrive. Another issue is that the PvE is good but there just isn't enough of it. A lot of people complain the map is too big - to be honest if I could imagine like 2-3 more continents that were filled with 50-100 different types of mobs and items/things to explore etc - I think that would help keep the PvE'ers in game. There's a food chain inside a hardcore full loot mmo. Crafters need PvE'ers to thrive and PvE'ers = PvPer's food. It's just a chain reaction we're seeing. As new players come in and vets murder noobs, the new player leaves and then the griefers/red players have nobody to kill but other vets or guilds with proper skill. This leads to guild war but currently there is no real incentive of war between guilds other than drama, so the guilds fall off.

Incentive incentive incentive. It starts all the way at the bottom and effects everyone at the top. If you can reach one group of players to keep in the game indefinitely for whatever that reason may be, it will likely create a chain reaction. One player always needs another to thrive in a game like this.

Flame on.

Another blame the murderers thread?

Close, but you know it wasn't the mindset or murderers who killed the game or the unsafe poor fucks that get griefed out of the game in graveyards, theres a number of reasons why the game got into a shitty place but i assure you it's mostly due to a terrible placeholder delayed development.

I'm what you call a pvper but i also do pve, quite a bit and i can tell you pve is no good and it's not enough. Understanding the game aint finished is key but are we actually getting the rework pve needs?

I don't see it comming.

The people i see saying this game has good pve are either noobs, fanbois or deniers. The pve in this game is terrible and theres a high possibility most of the people that got burnt got tired of murdering brain dead AI and afk mining.
Im one of those who think that if the pve mechanics are working organicly and have enough depth people won't even care for a law system, aslong as theres things to do, people to interact with and so on.

Randoms keep blaming the murderers/criminal playstyle for the failure of the game, lets just not go there again it's been months of arguing against clueless noobs trying to make em understand this game is not supposed to be another carebear bullshit mainstream game and if someone quits cuz getting ganked on a graveyard it means that person didn't understand the game concept in the first place. It's only up to SV to generate a healthy environment for noobs to grow and learn how to play, it's not the community's task to babysit every mutherfucker that gets into the game, but for that matter theres zergs recruiting.

 

[Kaemik]

But you have not created a game that rivals MO2.

I'm not a chef but I still don't return to a restaurant if the food is bad. I'm not a plumber but if I hire someone to fix my pipes and they are leaking again next week, I pick a new plumber next time. I'm not a carpenter but if my chair collapses I'm going to have someone else make it next time.

Not everyone is everything. That doesn't mean you have no right to criticize a job that is clearly done poorly.

This game clearly has issues making all the mechanics fit together and work synergistically. It's evident in the way races and character creation work. It's evident in the way PvP/Rep/MurderCounts work. It's evident in the way different builds/roles interact. It's evident in the way gear and crafting functions. I could go into more detail, but I think most people already understand what I am talking about.

I'm not saying don't try cool/new mechanics. I'm saying make the mechanics feel like they all fit together as part of a greater whole. Like a ton of consideration was put into thinking about how each system works alongside the others. This game lacks that feel.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

One day you'll open your eyes and leave the honey moon phase.

It's been over a decade of the same short comings and unfulfilled promises, of course people are going to point out the issues and flaws of MO2's development. Having the same cycle repeating over and over gets tiring and for veterans of the first game, you feel burnt a second time. We see the potential in Mortal and want to see it succeed, hence why people are very vocal about the issues. We want to see it do better, not be a giant puzzle with pieces forced in the wrong spot and forgot about.

This, noobs come here and think these problematics are new and say shit like "cut em some slack" "itz indie company" "itz only a game" but if these noobs coulda know or see MO1 forums would know the quality of feedback SV had for over a decade from brillant players and today they make the same mistakes than then. It's like those motherfuckers can't read.

And it's like teknik said, they decided to take shortcuts and the result is a Game full of placeholder content, what the fuck are they going to do with this empty carcass they call mortal online 2.

Don't worry guys SV is working hard on the next patch.

 

[m4rt3]

I expected the hate lol.

I'm not a chef but I still don't return to a restaurant if the food is bad. I'm not a plumber but if I hire someone to fix my pipes and they are leaking again next week, I pick a new plumber next time. I'm not a carpenter but if my chair collapses I'm going to have someone else make it next time.

Not everyone is everything. That doesn't mean you have no right to criticize a job that is clearly done poorly.

This game clearly has issues making all the mechanics fit together and work synergistically. It's evident in the way races and character creation work. It's evident in the way PvP/Rep/MurderCounts work. It's evident in the way different builds/roles interact. It's evident in the way gear and crafting functions. I could go into more detail, but I think most people already understand what I am talking about.

I'm not saying don't try cool/new mechanics. I'm saying make the mechanics feel like they all fit together as part of a greater whole. Like a ton of consideration was put into thinking about how each system works alongside the others. This game lacks that feel.

You're comparing a good plumber to a bad plumber. I'm comparing a team that is trying to create a game that nobody else is creating. Where is the analogy making sense? That's like me saying SV created a new battle royale that ended up dogshit so I opt out to play Warzone. If you opt out of MO2, what are you going to play that is exactly the same core values?

 

[m4rt3]

This, noobs come here and think these problematics are new and say shit like "cut em some slack" "itz indie company" "itz only a game" but if these noobs coulda know or see MO1 forums would know the quality of feedback SV had for over a decade from brillant players and today they make the same mistakes than then. It's like those motherfuckers can't read.

And it's like teknik said, they decided to take shortcuts and the result is a Game full of placeholder content, what the fuck are they going to do with this empty carcass they call mortal online 2.

Don't worry guys SV is working hard on the next patch.

Was Henrik doing livestreams back then a decade ago?
Bring forth all these brilliant ideas.

I don't think that you could be anymore wrong. I've been more than fair with them.

I forgave them for every blunder in MO 1 and chalked it up to issues with the engine. The engine isn't an issue yet they have all the same bugs, why? Because they copied their spaghetti code over because they wanted to take shortcuts. Doing the same thing that caused your failure in the first game and repeating it is not a forgivable error, not anymore.

Insisting on one world server when you could have just launched separate servers and no housing, and then merged the servers later. Of course the housing system they did launch was a joke because why would it be anything else but.

Making stupid balancing decisions over and over again. Why should one expect it to change when the person doing the balance doubles down on them.

If he live streams just to say stupid things and demonstrate how much he doesn't get it, or is livestreaming to show new content when the old content is still busted that isn't impressive.

Anyway 5 years ago I probably sounded like you. SV will disappoint you in time don't worry. Maybe in Mortal 3.

With the 2k hours in MO 2 and the 8.5k in MO 1, how much more time do you think I need before my opinion isn't me just wanting it NOW.

View attachment 4552

I get the frustration and I lived through Darkfall's depression of a team. I get it. But like everyone has all these different opinions on what is right or wrong. When I read posts on the forums, it's literally all different opinions from 10 different angles. Some say MA is too powerful, others disagree. Some people complain that Veels are broken, others disagree. Some people think we need to make the map smaller, others disagree. Like, how do you choose what is the right BALANCE or change and not have that decision be a wrong one for someone out there? They probably got sick of listening to so many mixed opinions that they just do their own thing now. Again, I get your frustration and share the same. I'm not trying to go against the issues at hand in MO2, I'm just trying to say that if you guys have been yelling at the top of your lungs for over a decade with all these "brilliant" ideas - and they HAVEN'T listened to you - why the fuck are you still here?


The fact that you state their track record and their supposed over a decade of not listening. You still continue to be here. As if now they are all of a sudden going to wake up? You're literally playing a failing game in your eyes for thousands of hours. Why? Why, when you are telling me you know nothing will change. Wild philosophy.

 

[Teknique]

Was Henrik doing livestreams back then a decade ago?
Bring forth all these brilliant ideas.

I get the frustration and I lived through Darkfall's depression of a team. I get it. But like everyone has all these different opinions on what is right or wrong. When I read posts on the forums, it's literally all different opinions from 10 different angles. Some say MA is too powerful, others disagree. Some people complain that Veels are broken, others disagree. Some people think we need to make the map smaller, others disagree. Like, how do you choose what is the right BALANCE or change and not have that decision be a wrong one for someone out there? They probably got sick of listening to so many mixed opinions that they just do their own thing now. Again, I get your frustration and share the same. I'm not trying to go against the issues at hand in MO2, I'm just trying to say that if you guys have been yelling at the top of your lungs for over a decade with all these "brilliant" ideas - and they HAVEN'T listened to you - why the fuck are you still here?


The fact that you state their track record and their supposed over a decade of not listening. You still continue to be here. As if now they are all of a sudden going to wake up? You're literally playing a failing game in your eyes for thousands of hours. Why? Why, when you are telling me you know nothing will change. Wild philosophy.

I have changed. Considerably. For the first time since 2015 i'm openly advocating against SV as a studio, publicly stating my lack of belief in the team and project, and will no longer support the franchise.

If you want me to be quiet about it, I don't see the obligation to do so.

 

[Tashka]

No crafting

Crafting is extremely shallow, and after a few months of being a crafter it's no longer as exciting

no PvE'ing

PvE gets boring after 1000 hours too. I can kill a risar commander with my eyes tied, using bananas for controller.

no roleplaying

Roleplaying is really not as cool outside RP servers with established rules for RP.

no adventuring

Adventuring isn't as exciting if you've already learned every polygon on the map. How many times can you venture into the jungle for the first time?

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Was Henrik doing livestreams back then a decade ago?
Bring forth all these brilliant ideas.

I get the frustration and I lived through Darkfall's depression of a team. I get it. But like everyone has all these different opinions on what is right or wrong. When I read posts on the forums, it's literally all different opinions from 10 different angles. Some say MA is too powerful, others disagree. Some people complain that Veels are broken, others disagree. Some people think we need to make the map smaller, others disagree. Like, how do you choose what is the right BALANCE or change and not have that decision be a wrong one for someone out there? They probably got sick of listening to so many mixed opinions that they just do their own thing now. Again, I get your frustration and share the same. I'm not trying to go against the issues at hand in MO2, I'm just trying to say that if you guys have been yelling at the top of your lungs for over a decade with all these "brilliant" ideas - and they HAVEN'T listened to you - why the fuck are you still here?


The fact that you state their track record and their supposed over a decade of not listening. You still continue to be here. As if now they are all of a sudden going to wake up? You're literally playing a failing game in your eyes for thousands of hours. Why? Why, when you are telling me you know nothing will change. Wild philosophy.

Yeah Henrique was doing the exact same streams in mo1 steam release actually, it was kinda the same bullshit, promising flamboyant content and shit like that.
They ain't my ideas and you can look for them peasent.

I understand theres some mixed opinions, some are really dumbass but they all make a fat and never aknowledged archive of feedback and suggestions.
You could find some consensus in a general opinion, if they would actually read the threads they would probably get to a few conclussions about what a portion of community debates about in good faith, maybe scroll down some lines of bullshit but theres already great feedback in this forum.

But its up to them to see and reach conclussions, to have a department in their company that would define development in at least the terms of delivering systems that are not placeholder content. The lack of meaning and depth the game has won't be fixed by a rollercoaster of trivial mechanics.

Call me a good supporter, many years of free feedback and bug reports in exchange of buggy ass games. But even if im playing why would i have to consider justifying my opinion to a random ass noob like you my friend.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I have changed. Considerably. For the first time since 2015 i'm openly advocating against SV as a studio, publicly stating my lack of belief in the team and project, and will no longer support the franchise.

If you want me to be quiet about it, I don't see the obligation to do so.

Don't lose your faith Teknik, whats left if you don't believe in SV.

 

[Tzone]

"No crafting, no PvE'ing, no roleplaying, no adventuring, no imagination, no content creation other than purely going around killing anyone and everyone with no real rhyme or reason other than to do just that (not saying that I don't support this type of gameplay, I most definitely do). "

The games boring and shallow outside of the PvP. This is a survival game trying to pretend to be a RP game.

Crafting is pseudo depthfull, RP is just random messing around, people have 1000s of hours there is not much reward or content to "adventure" (I spent my first 300 hours out of 1000 being lost, aka adventuring).

Even then with how shallow and boring the game is outside of PvP they still rather making the PvP less fun to make room for the PvE, RP, crafting stuff instead of just fix those aspects of the game so that they are fun and worthwhile doing.

 

[Tea]

I introduced 11 people to the game during late beta and early launch who initially liked the game, but quit complaining about travel times, hackers, bugs, launch queues, and downtime. Even if you're willing to engage with crafting, exploration, PVE, RP, there's a lot of things turning people off the game right now. One of the first things one of these friends saw was our horse stuck floating over a nodeline for 30 minutes of logging in and out during beta. We might have had fun on that jungle trip, but I can't blame them for not being impressed lol.

 

[Kaemik]

You're comparing a good plumber to a bad plumber. I'm comparing a team that is trying to create a game that nobody else is creating. Where is the analogy making sense? That's like me saying SV created a new battle royale that ended up dogshit so I opt out to play Warzone. If you opt out of MO2, what are you going to play that is exactly the same core values?

EXACTLY the same? Nothing. But this isn't the first sandbox MMO, nor is it the first one with a PvP focus. And it's unlikely to be the last. Pathfinder Online's community made the exact same argument you are making here when I warned them they needed to hold Goblinworks to a higher standard. That game officially shut down within the last year. But nobody cared because it never had a community worth mentioning past its first year of existence.

If you like this game, and you want it to continue to exist, and you find it irreplaceable, then you need to start holding SV to a higher standard.

 

[m4rt3]

Crafting is extremely shallow, and after a few months of being a crafter it's no longer as exciting


PvE gets boring after 1000 hours too. I can kill a risar commander with my eyes tied, using bananas for controller.


Roleplaying is really not as cool outside RP servers with established rules for RP.


Adventuring isn't as exciting if you've already learned every polygon on the map. How many times can you venture into the jungle for the first time?

"PvE gets boring 'after' 1000 hours too." Wow, so you had 1000 hours of enjoyable PvE experiences. So PvE'ing for 1000 hours and PvP let's say 200 hours? So out of 1200 hours played let's say you got 40 hours of actual exciting gameplay that you thoroughly enjoyed. People paying $60 for a 4-20 hr playthrough with no replayability. Man, you guys are seriously so whacked. People getting hundreds if not thousands of hours of playtime - even if maybe 40 hours out of that thousand were really exciting - that's legit 5-10x more "fun" gametime than many. If we're talking gametime to money ratios, I think many people have gotten their moneys worth, especially in terms of fun and unique experiences you won't get in any other game - even despite all it's flaws, bugs and lack of content.