Notes on the New Player Experience

[Wilhelm Windlicht]

Long before MO we had UO, a very similar Sandbox Game. It had the same Problems, all Spots camped, Griefers everywhere and most Player werent able to leave the Guardzones. Then the Devs decided to mirror the Map and create Trammel and Felucca and some Moongates to change Facets. Trammel got later even more Land and Dungeons to explore, no pvp or griefing allowed there -> 90% of the Players moved to Trammel. In Felucca same Rules as before, but double Resources from Mining/Hunting and they added Champspawns in the dungeons. Since there was no need to hide in large Zerg-Guilds anymore there where a lot of good fights in Felu. On the other Side, a lot of new Player joined in, had fun in peacefully exploring, trading and developing their chars. Some of them moved later to Felucca joining in pvp stuff. Everyone happy, besides some griefers which cried that they couldnt kill helpless newbies anymore. Even the Communuíty changed from rather toxic to rather helpful and friedly.

And they added content (Sandbox Games need Content too !). Small repeatable Quests where you got some special colored clothes, deco Items for your House or some Spells. Crafting was primitive compared to MO, but had a lot more interesting Items, Clothes, Armors to craft. Finally it felt like playing a magic medieval hardcore Sandbox Game and not playing a schoolyard banging with swords and Arrows.

 

[Doom and Gloom]

I agree. We need all types of players existing in the game.

The cities should be the busiest places and it just overflows out into the world from there.


I remember giving the first version of Darkfall a try late in its life and I seemed to be the only one running around in a huge city.

The game came off as dead to me and I never really gave it a serious go.


I want a lively world to exist in. So I am more that happy to have people exclusively existing in the cities doing their own thing.

No matter what that might.

Definitely this, not everyone needs to enjoy PvP who enjoys a full loot sandbox PvP game, but this is something some people just refuse to grasp. For example, I quite like Gathering in Albion, where I feel like there is risk for me to get killed, but in exchange I can be sneaky and get resources and value, without necessarily looking for a fight. However, even Albion's profits are mainly utilised to buy better gear, although you can make your personal island nice and some cosmetic options exists too.

Sandbox should indeed be a sandbox, not just a PvP simulator, so if you wanna, let's say, build a diving resort for ppl to enjoy, the game should facilitate that and encourage it, rather than everything be geared towards being stronger in combat or capturing territory etc.

I guess the main things are that there needs to be stuff to spend gold on that is something other than strictly combat related. Sure there are some cosmetics and decoration, but the potential is limitless and vastly underutilised (not only in this game). Even potential breeding etc. would be mainly for selling animals for gold, to buy better gear or upkeep for structures etc.

 

[Emdash]

I agree. We need all types of players existing in the game.

The cities should be the busiest places and it just overflows out into the world from there.


I remember giving the first version of Darkfall a try late in its life and I seemed to be the only one running around in a huge city.

The game came off as dead to me and I never really gave it a serious go.


I want a lively world to exist in. So I am more than happy to have people exclusively existing in the cities doing their own thing.

No matter what that might.

Yeah, including bandits IMO. I def didn't like the way a lot of people played in MO1, but busy cities were cool. Really big cities should have much stuff. Pirum ( and malus?) in Toxai, mining in town, about the only thing you can get is a few roses or water now.

You can still cut trees, strangely. The safety should be reduced to some point, but there should be plenty of content that is technically in town just to create the bustle as you said. I dunno if it's still like this, but I remember stable B in Tindrem and how it was kinda like ohh... stable B? Then the whole area going up to the tower. I mean that was a pretty intense town. There was open space, there were materials, and that brought people.

I think even having stuff like (gets ready for people to rage out) some animal herds or horses would be cool. The thing is, it's still a limited resource. People will fight over it a different way and maybe learn to understand why open pvp is *good.* Someone could come in and start slashing the horse you are trying to tame, etc... I dunno, all of these things create possibilities and you definitely need towns that are more than just people banking, leveling pets, crafting etc. IMO at least.

Like I said, I love doing the whole input output of buy order --> market and I feel I am helping the economy and making a small profit for myself. I'm surprised it's not a bigger thing or people try to make such huge profit margins haha. People need money for the local mats and people need crafts that are reasonably priced. But as of now, that's the only thing you can do that's city living. It works, though.

It's not hugely immersive, though. Going over and seeing someone mined out a whole wall and being like fuhhh I came too late... + people could gank you if they did it right. That's one thing about MO1 that didn't carry over, sadly. If you really wanna mine low quality resources, you can do alright anyway lol. I've done it to level up armor training and you end up with OK ore. It just makes the whole city feels lifeless to have everything but basically trees and water be uninteractive except for some weird spawn in Fab/Haven which ISN'T BREAKING THE GAME.

 

[Emdash]

Definitely this, not everyone needs to enjoy PvP who enjoys a full loot sandbox PvP game, but this is something some people just refuse to grasp. For example, I quite like Gathering in Albion, where I feel like there is risk for me to get killed, but in exchange I can be sneaky and get resources and value, without necessarily looking for a fight. However, even Albion's profits are mainly utilised to buy better gear, although you can make your personal island nice and some cosmetic options exists too.

Sandbox should indeed be a sandbox, not just a PvP simulator, so if you wanna, let's say, build a diving resort for ppl to enjoy, the game should facilitate that and encourage it, rather than everything be geared towards being stronger in combat or capturing territory etc.

I guess the main things are that there needs to be stuff to spend gold on that is something other than strictly combat related. Sure there are some cosmetics and decoration, but the potential is limitless and vastly underutilised (not only in this game). Even potential breeding etc. would be mainly for selling animals for gold, to buy better gear or upkeep for structures etc.

unfort this is a much taller order and imagination comes into play, sorta. Being able to have parts of town that 'owning' guilds could construct, though, would be cool. People def want some carrot, so maybe a deep diving pool with something valuable at the bottom? lol. They said they are gonna add in games, which will be interesting (if it ever happens,) but even just getting people in the same place to where they'd be talking would be great.

I think someone said something about tavern being world chat, and that would be v interesting, like you have to buy a drink and sit there and maybe eventually people's conversations from other places would come through like some npc patron would be like I heard in bakti that "lul cox 696969" Obviously, all of that is circumvented by discord and such, but for people who wanna immerse themselves... then you could make the brokers all untied and make people ask someone to go look for you what the price of something was, etc... I dunno, there are a lot of possibilities, but it would require more imagination than programming prowess.

SV really needs someone to tell them easy shit to do to make their game more interesting. lol.

 

[fartbox]

Long before MO we had UO, a very similar Sandbox Game. It had the same Problems, all Spots camped, Griefers everywhere and most Player werent able to leave the Guardzones. Then the Devs decided to mirror the Map and create Trammel and Felucca and some Moongates to change Facets. Trammel got later even more Land and Dungeons to explore, no pvp or griefing allowed there -> 90% of the Players moved to Trammel. In Felucca same Rules as before, but double Resources from Mining/Hunting and they added Champspawns in the dungeons. Since there was no need to hide in large Zerg-Guilds anymore there where a lot of good fights in Felu. On the other Side, a lot of new Player joined in, had fun in peacefully exploring, trading and developing their chars. Some of them moved later to Felucca joining in pvp stuff. Everyone happy, besides some griefers which cried that they couldnt kill helpless newbies anymore. Even the Communuíty changed from rather toxic to rather helpful and friedly.

And they added content (Sandbox Games need Content too !). Small repeatable Quests where you got some special colored clothes, deco Items for your House or some Spells. Crafting was primitive compared to MO, but had a lot more interesting Items, Clothes, Armors to craft. Finally it felt like playing a magic medieval hardcore Sandbox Game and not playing a schoolyard banging with swords and Arrows.

I really dislike people using UO as a reference point, because the game is still around and it only gets 5k players per day. I understand it was a good game, but no one wants to play it any longer, we should be looking at what people want to play "right now", not what people used to play. OSRS, EVE, and Albion all have this same model. Progressively more dangerous areas in the game offer progressively greater rewards. Mortal seems to be backwards, Fabernum is unironically more dangerous then Gaul' Kor. The closest horse spawn to GK is 5km away.

But keep in mind, the other games all have safeguards in place to ensure solo play content is competitive with group play content. Mortal has 0 of these safeguards. They also have approachable and accessible metas, new players can be competitive quickly.

Some (but not all) of the examples of safeguards employed by other games:

Eve: Cloaks, abyssals(1v1 only), faction warfare, jump drives, nullifiers
Albion: Corrupted dungeons(1v1 only), faction warfare, yellow zone, The Mists(1v1/2v2), Hellgates(2v2/5v5), Battlegrounds
OSRS: Single way combat zones (1v1 only), Teleports

 

[Doom and Gloom]

unfort this is a much taller order and imagination comes into play, sorta. Being able to have parts of town that 'owning' guilds could construct, though, would be cool. People def want some carrot, so maybe a deep diving pool with something valuable at the bottom? lol. They said they are gonna add in games, which will be interesting (if it ever happens,) but even just getting people in the same place to where they'd be talking would be great.

I think someone said something about tavern being world chat, and that would be v interesting, like you have to buy a drink and sit there and maybe eventually people's conversations from other places would come through like some npc patron would be like I heard in bakti that "lul cox 696969" Obviously, all of that is circumvented by discord and such, but for people who wanna immerse themselves... then you could make the brokers all untied and make people ask someone to go look for you what the price of something was, etc... I dunno, there are a lot of possibilities, but it would require more imagination than programming prowess.

SV really needs someone to tell them easy shit to do to make their game more interesting. lol.

Games sounds cool and all, but I've played too many games filled with shitty minigames that are not connected to the main game at all mostly and are trash quality that my hopes aren't exactly up for SV. And I mean, if I wanna play poker with an NPC dealer I can already do that, they would literally need to let the players control these games quite a bit for them to be interesting, and if they did, then we would have the issue of cheating in them for one.

I think Mortal would need something like Gwent for Witcher 3 of their own to have an interesting "mini-game", rather than just copying some staple games which you can honestly play much better elsewhere. Like Mort, the Mortal trading card game, find cards hidden in the vast world (make exploration have a point finally!) and trade them with others who enjoy playing, let players organize tournaments, which would be way more interesting than like community manager Robmo making some shitty event with some dev tools for a day.

You know what, writing this, I'm starting to like the idea already. Too bad it will never be implemented..

 

[Emdash]

Games sounds cool and all, but I've played too many games filled with shitty minigames that are not connected to the main game at all mostly and are trash quality that my hopes aren't exactly up for SV. And I mean, if I wanna play poker with an NPC dealer I can already do that, they would literally need to let the players control these games quite a bit for them to be interesting, and if they did, then we would have the issue of cheating in them for one.

I think Mortal would need something like Gwent for Witcher 3 of their own to have an interesting "mini-game", rather than just copying some staple games which you can honestly play much better elsewhere. Like Mort, the Mortal trading card game, find cards hidden in the vast world (make exploration have a point finally!) and trade them with others who enjoy playing, let players organize tournaments, which would be way more interesting than like community manager Robmo making some shitty event with some dev tools for a day.

You know what, writing this, I'm starting to like the idea already. Too bad it will never be implemented..

due to circumstance, I never got to do the MO1 minigame for lockpicking (basically didn't wanna spec it up,) and I've prol posted it before (prol for you lol) but they have the ability to make interesting stuff, for sure. It LOOKS crazy. Of course they made it macro-able which is zzz, but playing it for real looks like it might be a challenge.

I agree somewhat on games. But they act like they are coming. Dragons, too, haha. Mainly I want there to be more interaction of players. People are ready to interact tho, for real. I dunno how many of you guys walk up to people and start talking, but the people who don't run away or just ignore you seem like they have a lot to say. So... yeah, any game would be wonk, but it'd be cool to have more stuff for people to do. They used to have notes and drawing, too.

I remember I'd send people notes in the mail. Half the time they would be blank, but not always. Haha and it was this really shitty system where you couldn't erase so if you made a typo it was OVER. But you could also mouse draw, so you could send drawings. It was wack, sure, but still I did it cuz you could. In terms of raw flavor MO2 is lacking a lot.

 

[Wilhelm Windlicht]

I really dislike people using UO as a reference point, because the game is still around and it only gets 5k players per day. I understand it was a good game, but no one wants to play it any longer, we should be looking at what people want to play "right now", not what people used to play. OSRS, EVE, and Albion all have this same model. Progressively more dangerous areas in the game offer progressively greater rewards. Mortal seems to be backwards, Fabernum is unironically more dangerous then Gaul' Kor. The closest horse spawn to GK is 5km away.

But keep in mind, the other games all have safeguards in place to ensure solo play content is competitive with group play content. Mortal has 0 of these safeguards. They also have approachable and accessible metas, new players can be competitive quickly.

Some (but not all) of the examples of safeguards employed by other games:

Eve: Cloaks, abyssals(1v1 only), faction warfare, jump drives, nullifiers
Albion: Corrupted dungeons(1v1 only), faction warfare, yellow zone, The Mists(1v1/2v2), Hellgates(2v2/5v5), Battlegrounds
OSRS: Single way combat zones (1v1 only), Teleports

Uo is 25 Years old, its grafics too - it a wonder that it still has 5k Player. I mentioned it, because it had the same Problems as MO has - if a game has full pvp it need Zones to play which are safe or nearly safe, Albion, Eve and all other have this. If not, it will attract only a very low Number of Players and die sooner or later.

 

[fartbox]

Uo is 25 Years old, its grafics too - it a wonder that it still has 5k Player. I mentioned it, because it had the same Problems as MO has - if a game has full pvp it need Zones to play which are safe or nearly safe, Albion, Eve and all other have this. If not, it will attract only a very low Number of Players and die sooner or later.

OSRS is 21 years old and has 150k players logged in at the moment, I dont think age or graphics is as important as you make it out to be. If your game is good and you keep updating it then people will play it. If your game is worse then its competitors, people will leave and play something else. Most UO players left UO and went to OSRS or Albion. UO is a good game but it is objectively worse then its competitors for many reasons.

 

[Emdash]

OSRS is 21 years old and has 150k players logged in at the moment, I dont think age or graphics is as important as you make it out to be. If your game is good and you keep updating it then people will play it. If your game is worse then its competitors, people will leave and play something else. Most UO players left UO and went to OSRS or Albion. UO is a good game but it is objectively worse then its competitors for many reasons.

The important thing, imo, is that Mortal's Combat is bad.

that situation should NEVER HAPPEN. I bet it doesn't happen in those games you listed.

You have to accept that 2k people is the limit for Mortal Online as well and work around those limitations. MO is in a different realm because it has no safe zones. That's a selling feature, altho they have added enough guards to make it so that it's quasi safe, but if they make the combat good, it will work out, trust.