Notes on the New Player Experience

Weis

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A large portion of Steam reviews are people complaining that they get repeatedly ganked right outside cities. Nakeds trying to farm, getting killed over and over again.
This is easily mitigated by joining a guild imo. A guild with a good initiation process can save a player from having to experience this kind of griefing right out the bat. Id say timing and luck is also what determines a new players starter experience. The game railroads players to starting in Fabernum as well, and that town is a guarenteed stalk/gank for any new player even attempting to farm a bush pig lol.

Now that you have player made towns, you can essentially have a new player ghost to your vilalge and get them set up with some gear in their territory bank. hell, you can even build the library so they dont need to constantly go back to town.

Ultimately, if you are willing to push it through Haven and potentially do it again if your build is trash, then youve probably already put in enough hours to be addicted to the game. Problem is, that the new player experience weeds out a lot of players that actually would enjoy the game if the game made an effort to guide them through the learning curve.
 
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Emdash

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Yeah the idea that books with long timers save you time is quite rough considering your build would have to have high intelligence for the book to be a short read. My beef with the leveling speed is that if you were a new player, didnt know anything about the game, somehow found the motivation to put 40 hours into Haven, just to enter the game and realize your build is trash. You basically have to reroll and experience the initial time investment all over again. Lots of my new recruits reroll in their first week and quit the game. Haven and slow leveling for basic things does not respect the players time :(

Exactly what I was trying to say haha. I really think it needs to be addressed. That's why I am anti-haven, but, again, there is the dirty secret that once you sink in a certain amount of time, you can't refund the game... sooo... it could be purposeful, it could be not. WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

And @ people getting ganked outside of town, there are a bunch of towns. There are towns where it is pretty safe OR where the people who are ganking you are the same people. The opportunity is there to meet up with other people at the priest are and be like hey, let's go together and fight these dudes! That's why I don't really take those 'I'm getting ganked all the time' reviews seriously. That's content in a way. You can set a trap, have dudes go in on you and go grey then have the rest of your buds jump out and stomp them out and take their gear. It's all fun. If it ever got too toxic in one place, you can always move to another.

People have this idea that people have done then some great injustice by killing them, and, in truth, it is pretty wack to just kill someone for no reason, but that's the nature of the game. If you just accept that some people are like that and play accordingly, it gets pretty fun. That's definitely not (despite what SV and their 'steam review assessment squad' thinks) the reason MO is not a more popular game. I promise.
 
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TruthGlass

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In testing you could max out a toon in a few days outside of travel time for rare books. You could also just farm risars for rep which I feel is a better system.
 
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Haxanmancer

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This is easily mitigated by joining a guild imo. A guild with a good initiation process can save a player from having to experience this kind of griefing right out the bat. Id say timing and luck is also what determines a new players starter experience. The game railroads players to starting in Fabernum as well, and that town is a guarenteed stalk/gank for any new player even attempting to farm a bush pig lol.

Now that you have player made towns, you can essentially have a new player ghost to your vilalge and get them set up with some gear in their territory bank. hell, you can even build the library so they dont need to constantly go back to town.

Ultimately, if you are willing to push it through Haven and potentially do it again if your build is trash, then youve probably already put in enough hours to be addicted to the game. Problem is, that the new player experience weeds out a lot of players that actually would enjoy the game if the game made an effort to guide them through the learning curve.
I like your strategy of ghosting to a safe spot. I'll give finding a guilt a try but I'm not sure how reliable that is. I'm not great at PVP but I'm willing to push through and hope to play the game sometime in the near future.
 

Emdash

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In testing you could max out a toon in a few days outside of travel time for rare books. You could also just farm risars for rep which I feel is a better system.

yea like 40 hours. haha. That's the real world definition of "a few days." And like you said that's not without waiting for certain books. It's not just travel cuz you gotta hit break points that are easier to read than spam (unless you are super rich.) That's just combat and reg gear crafting, and that's assuming you have the cash to do it.

When you think about it, it's not a lot of time, but then it is. It is in a game where your life depends on being fully combat skilled. There needs to be a better curve of how stuff works. I mean, it used to take forever to max stuff like foot speed, so that's a plus, but it can be BETTER. There needs to be some in between in regards to... being functionally able to exist in MO and still needing to progress as a character.
 
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Weis

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And @ people getting ganked outside of town, there are a bunch of towns. There are towns where it is pretty safe OR where the people who are ganking you are the same people. The opportunity is there to meet up with other people at the priest are and be like hey, let's go together and fight these dudes! That's why I don't really take those 'I'm getting ganked all the time' reviews seriously. That's content in a way. You can set a trap, have dudes go in on you and go grey then have the rest of your buds jump out and stomp them out and take their gear. It's all fun. If it ever got too toxic in one place, you can always move to another.
This is percisely why I think all towns should have a sewer, Endless entry level content where when you die, you only need to jump back in with shop gear to farm. But sadly the sewers are limited to the most dangerous shit towns in the game
 

Weis

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Jun 1, 2022
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In testing you could max out a toon in a few days outside of travel time for rare books. You could also just farm risars for rep which I feel is a better system.
No joke, good luck farming bandits or risars as a new player. Guarenteed fights againsted 3-4 guys wearing panser or steel looking to farm prominence for their guild. Considering all risar camps are in the north or sausage lake, you need to be quite proficient at mounted pvp and have spare horses and a depot house. Most of these areas you cant place houses at anymore either.
 

Weis

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I like your strategy of ghosting to a safe spot. I'll give finding a guilt a try but I'm not sure how reliable that is. I'm not great at PVP but I'm willing to push through and hope to play the game sometime in the near future.
Were getting a library soon in our village if youre down to do JUNGLE pvp with some freedom fighters ;) gotta hit us up on discord and we can show you the way
 

TruthGlass

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No joke, good luck farming bandits or risars as a new player. Guarenteed fights againsted 3-4 guys wearing panser or steel looking to farm prominence for their guild. Considering all risar camps are in the north or sausage lake, you need to be quite proficient at mounted pvp and have spare horses and a depot house. Most of these areas you cant place houses at anymore either.
In my last round of testing a few months ago I searched for people to kill in the wilderness traveling from various farming spots, and in like 12 hours I found one person who just ran away. So maybe you are just lucky. During the games testing when risars gave rep the Riser camps were almost always active. I don't know why people lie about the game so aggressively.
 

Weis

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In my last round of testing a few months ago I searched for people to kill in the wilderness traveling from various farming spots, and in like 12 hours I found one person who just ran away. So maybe you are just lucky. During the games testing when risars gave rep the Riser camps were almost always active. I don't know why people lie about the game so aggressively.
Depends on your time zone I guess. In my hours the trolls, sator camps, and even turtle spawns are constantly contested to some degree.
 
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xzxDJxzx

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The main issue in Haven is the big long run to the fishing town to portal out to the mainworld.
 

Sonal

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I think this game has only a few types people it caters to.

You either start to play it and fundamentally know what your getting into, and enjoy the challenge, or you simply do not have the time or patience to continue. Having a new or better player experience in New Haven "might" retain more people but ultimately you know if it clicks for you.

It clicked for me personally because I used to play UO and enjoy high risk/high reward and no hand holding.
 
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Emdash

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I think this game has only a few types people it caters to.

You either start to play it and fundamentally know what your getting into, and enjoy the challenge, or you simply do not have the time or patience to continue. Having a new or better player experience in New Haven "might" retain more people but ultimately you know if it clicks for you.

It clicked for me personally because I used to play UO and enjoy high risk/high reward and no hand holding.
I dunno, I think like the other thread said, a lot of gamers these days are SOFT. It's amazing reading the threads on forums on steam. I love to read people arguing about new games like Cyberpunk or Baldur's gate 3. People don't realize how ridiculous they sound. The gamer has been emasculated to a large degree. MO has objective trash moments where you are like uninstall eugh, but if you assume MO is working as it should be working, it's decent. Haven is still dogsht. They need to make people level up faster. They need bodies in the world and then they need stuff for those bodies to do.

Like I said two things should be possible (and are to some degree, but the kind of people who would do them aren't interested in MO) 1. Life inside of the guard zone. Sorry. I know it makes kids mad, but that there isn't really a GZ life is pretty wack. All of those buildings and such. Not talking about mining and all, but just living, making money on broker, etc. Having drinks with your buds. AND Life without combat. There is life without combat but most of it goes into combat, like you can be a merchant or a miner but you are ultimately going to be gearing people for combat. There needs to be stuff for people who want to just frolick around and make clothes or whatever. Flower necklaces haha. Yall gotta trust me. It gets different people into the game THEN those people become something people either like or dislike, and they become another point of contention in the game and it makes it more dynamic. The GZ thing is the same. People who are safe from pvp (ish, I still liked the MO1 idea of assassinating people) but still manage to rustle jimmies would be good for the game.

HAVEN AIN'T GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
 
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Haxanmancer

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I dunno, I think like the other thread said, a lot of gamers these days are SOFT. It's amazing reading the threads on forums on steam. I love to read people arguing about new games like Cyberpunk or Baldur's gate 3. People don't realize how ridiculous they sound. The gamer has been emasculated to a large degree. MO has objective trash moments where you are like uninstall eugh, but if you assume MO is working as it should be working, it's decent. Haven is still dogsht. They need to make people level up faster. They need bodies in the world and then they need stuff for those bodies to do.

Like I said two things should be possible (and are to some degree, but the kind of people who would do them aren't interested in MO) 1. Life inside of the guard zone. Sorry. I know it makes kids mad, but that there isn't really a GZ life is pretty wack. All of those buildings and such. Not talking about mining and all, but just living, making money on broker, etc. Having drinks with your buds. AND Life without combat. There is life without combat but most of it goes into combat, like you can be a merchant or a miner but you are ultimately going to be gearing people for combat. There needs to be stuff for people who want to just frolick around and make clothes or whatever. Flower necklaces haha. Yall gotta trust me. It gets different people into the game THEN those people become something people either like or dislike, and they become another point of contention in the game and it makes it more dynamic. The GZ thing is the same. People who are safe from pvp (ish, I still liked the MO1 idea of assassinating people) but still manage to rustle jimmies would be good for the game.

HAVEN AIN'T GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
I don't think focusing on things like flower necklaces would be practical for a small team. What do you do once you've mastered the art of making flower necklaces? How long does that fun last? Also, that type of thing can be found in lots of other games.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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I don't think focusing on things like flower necklaces would be practical for a small team. What do you do once you've mastered the art of making flower necklaces? How long does that fun last? Also, that type of thing can be found in lots of other games.

I was being a bit facetious. Remember, I'm the soph cook guy, so I did master the art of flower necklaces. You do what you do when you get to that point, you make flower necklaces for people haha. It was definitely not literal, though. I'm just saying people need more things to do. I do think making clothes should be in the game. People care about that shit. Sophistication in MO meant nothing but a title and tons of people wanted that. That sort of content is great for end game. Even a lot of the pvp guys wanted soph titles just to be trolls. Same with having a really luxurious robe or whatever.

I dunno if I'd mind profession skill point pluses based on how awesome your robe is. See, you just gotta be imaginative. One of the problems with SV is they seem to lack a lot of imagination. They put things in the game, but it doesn't really 'fit.'

A lot of things could be added with minimal effort. I'd like to see at least the content of MO1. Mo1 had dyes. What do dyes do, nothing. But they matter. Being able to sit down at the bar and have a drink with your friend has no effect on game play, but it'd be a fun thing. They've added a lot of more complex, more broken systems... and less impactful systems to the game. IMO they absolutely need more PvE pursuits.

Like I said soph cooking was quite fun to figure out. That was just one thing. My point is make the game less about the circle of gathering mats, making gear, fighting, building, whatever. Add in 'flavor stuff.' You might catch some Emdash like people! Who never leave haha.
 

Sonal

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Emdash, I agree that there could be more content like that, creating flower necklaces =p or robes and whatnot. Does it effect anything? No. But do some people find that fun and interesting? Yes.

I only have 105 hours in game but one thing that stuck out to me was how bare the environment was. Throw some squirrel, rabbits ( think i saw rabbits somewhere), frogs, fish, or whatever into the map. They don't have to be interactable (or could be) but it brings the world to life. Heck, give me a week and I can stamp locations that need what where. It's the little things that make a big difference.
 

Emdash

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Emdash, I agree that there could be more content like that, creating flower necklaces =p or robes and whatnot. Does it effect anything? No. But do some people find that fun and interesting? Yes.

I only have 105 hours in game but one thing that stuck out to me was how bare the environment was. Throw some squirrel, rabbits ( think i saw rabbits somewhere), frogs, fish, or whatever into the map. They don't have to be interactable (or could be) but it brings the world to life. Heck, give me a week and I can stamp locations that need what where. It's the little things that make a big difference.

yeah, and all of the stuff growing that you can't interact with!!

Hey, all the talk about how trash the game is etc, it's players like you guys (new players who are somewhat interested) who are going to make it good.
I totally agree, though, hope you are telling people in more places. Put it in the in game suggestion box, haha.

The whole loop of Mortal for people is wow... like that almost 'touching grass' feeling then someone comes out of the bushes and slaughters you. HAHA. You can either be the person who is touching the grass or the person walking up behind someone with your weapon. Sure, there are wars and content like that in the background, but that's actually the new/solo or small group player content. That's what's gonna grow da gam imo.
 

Sonal

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I think treasure hunting would be a great PvE element like Ultima Online did.

Maybe find the treasure maps randomly in certain spots on the map, but again random, not giving people chance to camp locations.

There also needs to be more POI's, even if it's an empty cave, it creates an opportunity for players to create something there.
 

Amadman

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A padded room.
Like I said two things should be possible (and are to some degree, but the kind of people who would do them aren't interested in MO) 1. Life inside of the guard zone. Sorry. I know it makes kids mad, but that there isn't really a GZ life is pretty wack. All of those buildings and such. Not talking about mining and all, but just living, making money on broker, etc. Having drinks with your buds. AND Life without combat. There is life without combat but most of it goes into combat, like you can be a merchant or a miner but you are ultimately going to be gearing people for combat. There needs to be stuff for people who want to just frolick around and make clothes or whatever. Flower necklaces haha. Yall gotta trust me. It gets different people into the game THEN those people become something people either like or dislike, and they become another point of contention in the game and it makes it more dynamic. The GZ thing is the same. People who are safe from pvp (ish, I still liked the MO1 idea of assassinating people) but still manage to rustle jimmies would be good for the game.
I agree. We need all types of players existing in the game.

The cities should be the busiest places and it just overflows out into the world from there.


I remember giving the first version of Darkfall a try late in its life and I seemed to be the only one running around in a huge city.

The game came off as dead to me and I never really gave it a serious go.


I want a lively world to exist in. So I am more than happy to have people exclusively existing in the cities doing their own thing.

No matter what that might.
 
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